2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[skinny21]

Lot of little, but exciting notes from Paulsen.  One that stands out to me, and it’s something I’ve mentioned here and there over the years - upping the tempo in practice, along with splitting groups up.  I’d guess they’re adding something like 10 or 20 reps per day, which means, over the course of the offseason, you’re talking hundreds of additional reps.  Not only great for fast tracking development of young guys and getting FAs comfortable more quickly, but also gives the whole unit a leg up in terms of installing a whole new O.  Sucks we lost those OTA days…

 

Additional focus on 3rd downs/red zone is pretty cool as well.

[RVAskins]

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

Lot of little, but exciting notes from Paulsen.  One that stands out to me, and it’s something I’ve mentioned here and there over the years - upping the tempo in practice, along with splitting groups up.

Any sign of the "Oklahoma drill."

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

Lot of little, but exciting notes from Paulsen.  One that stands out to me, and it’s something I’ve mentioned here and there over the years - upping the tempo in practice, along with splitting groups up.  I’d guess they’re adding something like 10 or 20 reps per day, which means, over the course of the offseason, you’re talking hundreds of additional reps.  Not only great for fast tracking development of young guys and getting FAs comfortable more quickly, but also gives the whole unit a leg up in terms of installing a whole new O.  Sucks we lost those OTA days…

 

Additional focus on 3rd downs/red zone is pretty cool as well.

 

I haven't listened to Paulsen's version yet.  But listened to Finlay-Keim.  Finlay's podcast crew doubled down on the speed-tempo of practice.  Other tidbits combining them together.

 

A.  Howell looked mostly good.  He looked sharper than Heiniicke and Wentz did in the typical practice last year.  The concern was being at times a bit too aggressive

 

B.  Bieiniemy is encouraging Howell to be vocal and to show leadership on the field.  Keim said the team in general wants to see more of that from Howell so that's an emphasis

 

C.  Even though Rivera emphasized the tackle spot for Daniels after they drafted him.  They had him practice at 2nd team LG.

 

D.  Armani Rogers is a big loss.  They envisioned him to be the TE who can helped with the screen game because of his speed.  They might bring now another TE.

 

E.  I got the vibe that Brissett wasn't that sharp but not bad.  The vibe they get it Brissett is Alex Smith style super conservative whereas Howell is a risk taker and his flaw this season might be throwing picks -- citing his pick in the red zone looked pretty bad.  But again overall, they think Howell looked mostly sharp.'

 

F.  Based on day 1 they don't expect Stromberg to battle for the first string center spot.  he was with the third team and barely got any reps. 

 

G.  The secondary's depth looked impressive, the shifting lineups looked strong.  Forbes is noticablly fast. 

 

H.  The Finlay crew have some conern about Jamin Davis, that's now the 2nd surgery he's had to clean his knee and the depth isn't good at that spot.

 

I.  At center, Gates is loud and makes his presence felt for that reason

Edited May 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[wit33]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am of course rooting for the unit to surprise.

 

Going purely on college tape, I'd like Paul to beat Charles for LG.  Paul IMO has potential -- Charles I feel like I've seen enough where I am not sold let alone he can't stay healthy.  And like you, I like Stromberg.  

 

Stromberg, Paul, Cosmi - they might have some rough patches but at least it would feel like they might be developing the interior of the line with some young potential.

 

 

The importance of investing a lot of money in the offensive line is often overrated unless you're just one player away and have found a truly exceptional talent. If you have the opportunity to acquire a great-to-elite player, by all means, prioritize it. But in my humble opinion, it's silly to pay guys an extra $5-10 million for minimal improvement unless there's a significant gain.

 

I'd prefer having a mid-round guy who has been with the team for 2-3 years over a free agent who was only average, especially if they were only average in a great scheme.

 

My guess is Ron and company felt they were decimated by injuries last season and that being why struggles at Oline took place. It seems you feel it was talent related? 
 

Consider pure luck if your interior Olineman remains healthy throughout the season. 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Grant was joking with Standig about this yesterday.  Seems like their whole off season on offense is predicated on Bieniemy.   Bieniemy is their off season star and all hope is riding on him.  They feel a bit bad that the pressure is so on his shoulders on that front where they haven't given him a ton of help as far as off season additions.

The star move you’ve been screaming for was right under your nose  Forget the star, give me the potential star level scheme and coach to raise expectation level at no cost to the cap. 

[DiscoBob]

16 minutes ago, RVAskins said:

Any sign of the "Oklahoma drill."

 

It's in the fan zone, with a Dan Snyder dummy.

[DWinzit]

I really like your addition of I. SIP

Gates is a leader and motivator along with tough, that's why they brought him in. Well that and we gave him a better offer than he'd get elsewhere due to that injury he was still kind of returning from. He has all the right qualities and will be a great mentor for Strom! Sounds like he has some work to do before moving ahead of Larsen...

 

I would not be shocked if they could bring in another TE and maybe move from Thomas...Wish they did this in the draft. I see the Pats signed yet another TE, Anthony Firsker, not that he is the style we would be in the market for however

[Skinsinparadise]

43 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

 

The importance of investing a lot of money in the offensive line is often overrated unless you're just one player away and have found a truly exceptional talent. 

 

 

It's a binary point for something that isn't binary IMO.  I am OK with investing heavy in the O line.  But for me money isn't the operative point -- draft capital is the same point.  Do one or the other.  Don't skip both like they do.

 

 

43 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

 But in my humble opinion, it's silly to pay guys an extra $5-10 million for minimal improvement unless there's a significant gain.

 

 

I get the point but who is arguing paying an extra 5-10 million for minimal improvement.   I am not not arguing for instead of that D plus player lets go get the C minus guy and pay him big bucks.

 

43 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

My guess is Ron and company felt they were decimated by injuries last season and that being why struggles at Oline took place. It seems you feel it was talent related? 

 

Feels like Ron was more dramatic than that as for his rhetoric.  He said multiple times the O line was the reason why they took a step back and he didn't just reference the depth. 

 

If I had to judge what he thought was the issue based on what he did.

 

A.  I gather he thought RT was a big issue and Wylie despite sort of his average at best pedigree is much better than that -- see the SB game where he had the game of his life.

 

B.  I gather he liked Bates' reputation for being a grity-tough-smart player and would sort of be the new Rouillier.  And while he's coming back from a gruesome injury, maybe the best is yet to come from him since he's another year away from that injury.

 

And at guard, I'll run with the idea that Ron considers himself an optimist.  So, S. Charles hasn't been hot yet but why couldn't he make his move now?  Yeah him and Cosmi have struggled mightly to stay healthy but heck what if they do stay healthy this time?  The naysayers say they won't.  But his counter is why not?

 

I did a long take of how the O line could work out on the QB thread.  The thing its not that I can't envision everything falling into place and the O line works out -- but there takes some IMO imagination and big bets on good luck.

 

43 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

The star move you’ve been screaming for was right under your nose  Forget the star, give me the potential star level scheme and coach to raise expectation level at no cost to the cap. 

  

I never screamed once for a star.  I explained that if I were Ron and I forgoed going heavy on addressing the O line -- the only excuse that would make a little sense to me for that would be Rivera going for some sort of juice up the fan base type move.  A fan base that was dead last in ticket sales -- and Ron seems very aware of the attendance issue and lack of fan interest. 

 

And while I doubt he would make a move just to make a move, I could see him making a move and as I said it wouldn't even have to be for a player, it could be Roseman style add 2024 draft picks for example, but could be something that both makes sense and brings a little juice.    

 

Not getting Sunday-Monday Night prime time games -- being a national punch line for being irreleevant -- I believe they are dead last also for local sales or close enough to it -- maybe Rivera was thinking let me make a sexy off season move for once and show the new ownership I give a crap about being argubaly the NFL team with the least juice.

 

But that's me making an excuse for Ron.  I can care less about whether he did it personally.  I want to win.  Building that O line would have likely helped that cause.  Even though from a juice standpoint its boring.   But right now IMO Ron set up a roster which likely won't win AND brings no juice.   So if i am Josh Harris and this season lets say doesn't go hot -- he made it a no brainer IMO to fire him.  Super easy call. 

 

Fortunately for Ron, Dan leaving will bring some juice organically that I think will help the season initially.  But if Ron does his tradtional sputtering start and the team seems to be going head-long into a 7-10 season. -- the main way to juice the fan base post the after-glow of Dan being gone will likely be Ron being gone.  I hope I am wrong.  I like Ron.  But I do genuinely think that there is about a 90% chance that not only has Ron set up his own pink slip but he set up the fan base that the great hope for 2024 begins with the excitement of seeing Ron gone.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[MartinC]

57 minutes ago, DiscoBob said:

 

It's in the fan zone, with a Dan Snyder dummy.

 

I'd prefer it to be the real Dan. You could sell a LOT of tickets to watch that.

[DiscoBob]

2 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

I'd prefer it to be the real Dan. You could sell a LOT of tickets to watch that.

 

True... they might be able to makeup for their lost ticket sales with that cash cow...

[DWinzit]

25 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's a binary point for something that isn't binary IMO.  I am OK with investing heavy in the O line.  But for me money isn't the operative point -- draft capital is the same point.  Do one or the other.  Don't skip both like they do.

 

 

 

I get the point but who is arguing paying an extra 5-10 million for minimal improvement.   I am not not arguing for instead of that D plus player lets go get the C minus guy and pay him big bucks.

 

 

Feels like Ron was more dramatic than that as for his rhetoric.  He said multiple times the O line was the reason why they took a step back and he didn't just reference the depth. 

 

If I had to judge what he thought was the issue based on what he did.

 

A.  I gather he thought RT was a big issue and Wylie despite sort of his average at best pedigree is much better than that -- see the SB game where he had the game of his life.

 

B.  I gather he liked Bates' reputation for being a grity-tough-smart player and would sort of be the new Rouillier.  And while he's coming back from a gruesome injury, maybe the best is yet to come from him since he's another year away from that injury.

 

And at guard, I'll run with the idea that Ron considers himself an optimist.  So, S. Charles hasn't been hot yet but why couldn't he make his move now?  Yeah him and Cosmi have struggled mightly to stay healthy but heck what if they do stay healthy this time?  The naysayers say they won't.  But his counter is why not?

 

I did a long take of how the O line could work out on the QB thread.  The thing its not that I can't envision everything falling into place and the O line works out -- but there takes some IMO imagination and big bets on good luck.

 

  

I never screamed once for a star.  I explained that if I were Ron and I forgoed going heavy on addressing the O line -- the only excuse that would make a little sense to me for that would be Rivera going for some sort of juice up the fan base type move.  A fan base that was dead last in ticket sales -- and Ron seems very aware of the attendance issue and lack of fan interest. 

 

And while I doubt he would make a move just to make a move, I could see him making a move and as I said it wouldn't even have to be for a player, it could be Roseman style add 2024 draft picks for example, but could be something that both makes sense and brings a little juice.    

 

Not getting Sunday-Monday Night prime time games -- being a national punch line for being irreleevant -- I believe they are dead last also for local sales or close enough to it -- maybe Rivera was thinking let me make a sexy off season move for once and show the new ownership I give a crap about being argubaly the NFL team with the least juice.

 

But that's me making an excuse for Ron.  I can care less about whether he did it personally.  I want to win.  Building that O line would have likely helped that cause.  Even though from a juice standpoint its boring.   But right now IMO Ron set up a roster which likely won't win AND brings no juice.   So if i am Josh Harris and this season lets say doesn't go hot -- he made it a no brainer IMO to fire him.  Super easy call. 

 

Fortunately for Ron, Dan leaving will bring some juice organically that I think will help the season initially.  But if Ron does his tradtional sputtering start and the team seems to be going head-long into a 7-10 season. -- the main way to juice the fan base post the after-glow of Dan being gone will likely be Ron being gone.  I hope I am wrong.  I like Ron.  But I do genuinely think that there is about a 90% chance that not only has Ron set up his own pink slip but he set up the fan base that the great hope for 2024 begins with the excitement of seeing Ron gone.

If there was one idea I liked from the horrible Norv Turner Era was his emphasis on the OL. He did so by drafting an OL in the 2nd or 3rd rounds in his first season, 2nd and 6th in his second and in the 1st with his third season

 

His only issues on that were he was drafting position over BPA...especially with the horrible decision to draft Andre Johnson T at the end of round 1 in 96. And made the trade with the Cowboys of all teams. I think they are still laughing at us for that one. But I digress. Hoping he invest more top 3 round selections in the OL in the years to come and missed a need to do so this season by the end of the second round. At least we did get Strom and Daniels, who knows how they turn out

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

If there was one idea I liked from the horrible Norv Turner Era was his emphasis on the OL. He did so by drafting an OL in the 2nd or 3rd rounds in his first season, 2nd and 6th in his second and in the 1st with his third season

 

His only issues on that were he was drafting position over BPA...especially with the horrible decision to draft Andre Johnson T at the end of round 1 in 96. And made the trade with the Cowboys of all teams. I think they are still laughing at us for that one. But I digress. Hoping he invest more top 3 round selections in the OL in the years to come and missed a need to do so this season by the end of the second round. At least we did get Strom and Daniels, who knows how they turn out

 

Feels like that spell they had with jags at DT where they threw pathwork solutions to it where they never went to town but threw something at the problem and hoped to get lucky.  Then they hit a breaking point and used major draft capital to address the spot and the rest is history.

 

It feels like we are in that age at O line.  And my guess is the new regime in 2024 will go to town on it.

[KDawg]

Some folks are worried about tight end. Myself? I’m worried about LB. An injured Davis on a second surgery and then it’s Bolton, Eifler and Hudson? Eifler or Hudson better be Clark Kent and head into a phone booth soon.

[petey hodge]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I haven't listened to Paulsen's version yet.  But listened to Finlay-Keim.  Finlay's podcast crew doubled down on the speed-tempo of practice.  Other tidbits combining them together.

 

A.  Howell looked mostly good. 

[skinsfan66]

16 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Some folks are worried about tight end. Myself? I’m worried about LB. An injured Davis on a second surgery and then it’s Bolton, Eifler and Hudson? Eifler or Hudson better be Clark Kent and head into a phone booth soon.

And we drafted 2 CB's first. No LB or TE almost the 4th Round before OL taken. So much for taken advantage of having a QB on a Rookie contract. Did not take a QB either. We have no NFL 1st team level TE on the team at the moment. LB you have 1. Not much better at OL just a bunch of maybes and a average LT, RT.  

[Skinsinparadise]

48 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Some folks are worried about tight end. Myself? I’m worried about LB. An injured Davis on a second surgery and then it’s Bolton, Eifler and Hudson? Eifler or Hudson better be Clark Kent and head into a phone booth soon.

 

I got a feeling your favorite player might be coming to the rescue again soon....and then we can all sleep at night because as we hear like past years that he really really knows the system and is good for the LB room.

 

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

Oh SIP, you didn't go there....did you?

44 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Some folks are worried about tight end. Myself? I’m worried about LB. An injured Davis on a second surgery and then it’s Bolton, Eifler and Hudson? Eifler or Hudson better be Clark Kent and head into a phone booth soon.

I thought we got Nick Bolton for a minute...that would have been great. I wish I knew more about Barton. Hudson did have a good game lol

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, DWinzit said:

Oh SIP, you didn't go there....did you?

 

I am a bit cranky lately about the roster construction.  And I genuinely got low expectations of what's next as for who they chase.

 

But i need to find my typical much more positive vibes about the roster. 

 

 

[KDawg]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I got a feeling your favorite player might be coming to the rescue again soon....and then we can all sleep at night because as we hear like past years that he really really knows the system and is good for the LB room.

 

 

Why did you have to put this into the ether?

 

12 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Oh SIP, you didn't go there....did you?

I thought we got Nick Bolton for a minute...that would have been great. I wish I knew more about Barton. Hudson did have a good game lol

 

Barton, Bolton… 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Grant was joking with Standig about this yesterday.  Seems like their whole off season on offense is predicated on Bieniemy.   Bieniemy is their off season star and all hope is riding on him.  They feel a bit bad that the pressure is so on his shoulders on that front where they haven't given him a ton of help as far as off season additions.

Yeah, I don’t think it’s any extra pressure.

You get the opportunity to do what you've wanted to do forever.  What you’ve dreamed of doing all your life.  And what you’ve prepared to do since you got in the league, learning from some of the best around.  I’m excited for him and by extension for us.  I think it’s gonna be a fun ride this year.  

[XxSpearheadxX]

6 hours ago, RVAskins said:

Any sign of the "Oklahoma drill."

I'm pretty sure its disallowed by the player cba in these off season workouts I don't think anyone does that bull ring stuff anymore. I broke a helmet in high school in the ring cracked it right in the middle

Edited May 25, 2023 by XxSpearheadxX

[Cool Hwhip]

19 minutes ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

I'm pretty sure its disallowed by the player cba in these off season workouts I don't think anyone does that bull ring stuff anymore. I broke a helmet in high school in the ring cracked it right in the middle

Better than me....I got my nose broken in high school while doing that drill and one prick even kept on hitting me late and led me to messing my knee up.

 

Dude was 3rd string, so maybe was his idea to move up the depth chart?🤔

[DiscoBob]

2 hours ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

I'm pretty sure its disallowed by the player cba in these off season workouts I don't think anyone does that bull ring stuff anymore. I broke a helmet in high school in the ring cracked it right in the middle

 

The league will make an exception if we put Danny Boy in the Bull Ring

[Skinsinparadise]

13 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

Yeah, I don’t think it’s any extra pressure.

You get the opportunity to do what you've wanted to do forever.  What you’ve dreamed of doing all your life.  And what you’ve prepared to do since you got in the league, learning from some of the best around.  I’m excited for him and by extension for us.  I think it’s gonna be a fun ride this year.  

 

I like Bieniemy, jazzed about that.  But if i am hiring a new chef, I am loading them up with great ingredients to make it easier versus going dude i am not giving you much -- we are going to load up on what we already do well and add to that.   But we will put your unit on your shoulders without giving you much of a lift from us.  Lets help Del Rio instead even more.

 

Hyperbole on my end to make a point -- instead of going here's some fiour, some cocoa, some sugar -- its not much but hey you are a geniuses make a delicious cake anyway.  Instead, I'd be loading the chef up with whatever I could so they could make that meal with ease and do something cool -- versus lets say if you can make something out of nothing.  

 

I like Howell's potential.  i like the Wrs.  I like the Rbs.  But IMO they saddled him with a tough job because an O line can unravel a unit.  The TE is typically a lifeline for a QB -- they did nothing on that front either.  Instead they went to town on the unit that was already strong to make it stronger.  Feels like a lot of pressure on Bieinemy to make lemonade out of lemons.

 

5 out of their last 7 first round picks are defense.  5 out of their last 7 next pick after that first was defense.  Shockingly our defense has been pretty good and our offense has mostly sucked for years.  . How can that be?

 

Granted its a big hurdle for Bieniemy to turn that around and I bet that's a fun challenge.  But its a bit annoying to me that instead of helping Bieiniemy in the draft they doubled down on the idea that the defense comes first even this year when the unit was top 5 and the offense was garbage last year.

 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

15 hours ago, KDawg said:

Some folks are worried about tight end. Myself? I’m worried about LB. An injured Davis on a second surgery and then it’s Bolton, Eifler and Hudson? Eifler or Hudson better be Clark Kent and head into a phone booth soon.

For what it is worth - Keim mentioned that the team is very intrigued by Hudson. With Davis out it is giving Hudson more first unit opportunities. Keims plan is to focus on him in future episodes.

I know, well of course they are intrigued, so are we because he hasn't done much so far. With all these guys it is just...keep fingrs crossed situation like with the young OL and TE's

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

For what it is worth - Keim mentioned that the team is very intrigued by Hudson. With Davis out it is giving Hudson more first unit opportunities. Keims plan is to focus on him in future episodes.

I know, well of course they are intrigued, so are we because he hasn't done much so far. With all these guys it is just...keep fingrs crossed situation like with the young OL and TE's

 

Keim has said among others they loved how Hudson played in the last game.  But he also has said they really really really want to add a LB and are basically waiting for one to be released that they are intrigued by or perhaps a FA already available if their price comes down.   He hasn't said the mechanism of it and who the target is but he stressed they want one.  

Edited May 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise