The Official 2023 ES Free Agency Thread... available until Free Agency 2024 begins

[Est.1974]

3 hours ago, gooseneck said:

 

25. Jordyn Brooks, LB, Seattle Seahawks
Jordyn Brooks of the Seattle Seahawks has grown into one of the league's most prolific off-ball linebackers. The 26-year-old topped 160 tackles in each of the past two seasons and led the league with 109 solo stops in 2021.

While Brooks suffered a torn ACL in Week 17 last season, he was back on the field for Week 1 this year, which he finished with 12 tackles, a tackle for loss and five solo stops. He has already amassed 67 tackles, 35 solo stops, 3.5 sacks and a forced fumble this season.

"It's amazing," fellow linebacker Bobby Wagner said, per John Boyle of the team's official website. "I hope we don't just pass on it like this is not a big deal."

Brooks worked hard for a speedy recovery. Expect him to cash in with a sizeable second contract. Logical suitors include the Commanders, who are projected to have the second-most cap space in the NFL and who could use help at the second level of their defense.

Though the Pittsburgh Steelers are currently projected to be over next year's cap, they should take a long look at a run-stopping linebacker like Brooks. While Pittsburgh's defense has been mostly solid this season, the Steelers have allowed an average of 4.5 yards per carry.

Potential Suitors: Pittsburgh Steelers, Washington Commanders

He was one of my draft man-crushes. Really wanted us to draft him, pretty much my prime target, think he went much higher than predicted

Edited November 2, 2023 by Est.1974

[FrFan]

Please stop throwing money to those free agents who mostly didn't play up to their big paychecks (Norman, Collins, Jackson III, Fitztragic, etc...), be aware of inflated stats on contract years.

Instead I hope they'll sign a very  few ones in the class of London Fletcher, this guy was worth every penny and such a great player.

Edited November 2, 2023 by FrFan

[JamesMadisonSkins]

10 minutes ago, FrFan said:

Please stop throwing money to those free agents who mostly didn't play up to their big paychecks (Norman, Collins, Jackson III, Fitztragic, etc...), be aware of inflated stats on contract years.

Instead I hope they'll sign a very  few ones in the class of London Fletcher, this guy was worth every penny and such a great player.

 

Well, your hope is that with a new suite of decision makers that lean on analytics (whatever that truly means, idk) ... that they would likely thrive in the area you reference. I would suspect that could be the strategy in the upcoming off-season, basically try to do what this FO failed to do last off-season, which is add talent at a discount, and then build through the draft. 

 

The one exception for me MIGHT be the OL. You have to improve it somehow, and adding a premier 1st round pick will help but that's not an overhaul. I would suspect a "premier" signing at either Center, LG or RT should be expected, along with a "moneyball" type addition for depth. Then draft away.

[FrFan]

9 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Well, your hope is that with a new suite of decision makers that lean on analytics (whatever that truly means, idk) ... that they would likely thrive in the area you reference. I would suspect that could be the strategy in the upcoming off-season, basically try to do what this FO failed to do last off-season, which is add talent at a discount, and then build through the draft. 

 

The one exception for me MIGHT be the OL. You have to improve it somehow, and adding a premier 1st round pick will help but that's not an overhaul. I would suspect a "premier" signing at either Center, LG or RT should be expected, along with a "moneyball" type addition for depth. Then draft away.

Fwiw I tend to see a football team like a house, you start building it from the ground up. That means Big Guys in the trenches come first in the draft then Linebackers/DE. I just wish the very best to whoever will be in charge and hope they will build a solid D which will help us winning championships in the long run.

Edited November 2, 2023 by FrFan

[philibusters]

Interesting that he thinks or thought RB were overvalued in free agency.  I wonder if he still believes that because there has been some market correction over the past 5 years where more and more NFL front offices have come to the conclusion which has lead to the stagnating RB market value, where its basically stayed the same over the last 6 or 7 whereas the other positions have all gone up.  

 

Part of the problem with running back is that the physical skill set is more common than other positions.  There are a lot more 5'10 guys with speed and balance in the world than 6'5 guys who ran 4.6's and are nimble.  Bill Parcells had a planet theory based on how rare certain physical skill sets were.   But I think there is a feel that if you had to play the 125th best RB in the league, you would only lose so much value compared to the best RB in the league.  You may lose .75 wins above replacement going from 1 to 125 because the 125th RB will still be serviceable.  By contrast if you went from the best OT to the 125 offensive tackle, you are going for a guy who may give one pressure every two games to a guy who is probably giving up 12 or 13 pressures a game and that difference may be 1.5wins above replacement (twice the difference of RB).   So since the difference between a stud and a JAG (Just another guy) is much bigger at Tackle than RB you should pay more to get a stud tackle than stud RB.

Edited November 2, 2023 by philibusters

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah Hoffman was referencing in his press conference when Rivera was asked about the DEs he still pivoted to Howell.  As he said howell is like Rivera's human shield.

 

Finlay is now running a segment on the point about Rivera's pitch is all about Howell to an extreme

Galdi has been joking about this for days.  Ronese.  Mention Sam as the answer to every question.

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 hours ago, woodpecker said:

I don’t think anybody is saying it works all the time. It’s just that it has a better track record than anything else we’ve seen. Coach as GM has rarely worked well, if ever. “GM by committee“ even worse. Pedigree or not, the Bears just made a bad hire at GM. They’ll have to move on from him as soon as possible. Doesn’t mean having a GM run the show is a bad thing. Instead of the Bears, why don’t we talk about the Eagles, Ravens, Bills, 49ers and many other teams who are thriving under the leadership of good GM’s. 
Again, nobody’s disagreeing with you that there is more than one way to skin a cat. But some ways are better than others, and I think a great GM is exactly what we need to turn this franchise around—so we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

I'd argue for all of the teams you mentioned, it's a complete synergy between coach and GM which makes it work.  And for the Ravens and 49ers, the coach probably has more practical say in everything than the GM. Same with the Chiefs.  

 

I can't remember which former GM it was who said it, but it made an awful lot of sense: While he was the GM, that was a full time job in and of itself, he couldn't imagine also being the coach, even if he had the skills to do it.  Flipped around (which is the point he was making) Head Coach is a big enough job, there's no way a HC can really do a second full time job.  

 

Which is why you need a really strong GM and a really strong Coach.  

 

I put an enormous amount of emphasis on coaching.  A Head Coach hires the staff, which develops the players and then puts them in the position to succeed.  Bad coaching can lead to lack of development of good talent AND bad scheme/game day situations.  

 

However, play acquisition is just as important.  And that's not something a coach can possibly do well at the same time as coaching.  

 

Which is why they are 2 jobs.  I just see them as equal.  Others thing the GM is more important or should be higher on the totem pole.  I don't. 

[MrJL]

I was looking at transaction pages trying to find out if we've filled Sweat and Young's roster spots and ESPN.com has the compensation for Young as a conditional 2nd round pick. Not a comp 3rd. Wonder if they're  accurate and it's just way out there conditions?

 

Also the way they keep saying a compensatory 3rd is kind of dumb to me. Considering they won't actually admit the formula you can only assume you have one coming.

 

Wonder what happens if premature trading throws off the formula and then you don't get it

[glongest]

He doesn't get credit for whatever Howell does in my book.  He said himself when asked why he didn't play last year was because they didn't realize what they had.  Really?  You scouted him, you drafted him, you had him in training camp, you coached him but yet you did not know what you had.  Well then you don't get credit for him now that he is playing well.  It just happens to be that he appears to have potential despite your ineptness to evaluate talent.  

[Rufus T Firefly]

34 minutes ago, MrJL said:

I was looking at transaction pages trying to find out if we've filled Sweat and Young's roster spots and ESPN.com has the compensation for Young as a conditional 2nd round pick. Not a comp 3rd. Wonder if they're  accurate and it's just way out there conditions?

 

Also the way they keep saying a compensatory 3rd is kind of dumb to me. Considering they won't actually admit the formula you can only assume you have one coming.

 

Wonder what happens if premature trading throws off the formula and then you don't get it

The comp pick is part of the minority hiring process, so they know they are getting that one.

 

There have been deals of the other kind of comp picks in the past, it's just written with words to the effect of "if there is a comp pick, then that is the one conveyed. If  not, then it is pick x.."

Edited November 2, 2023 by Rufus T Firefly

[NoCalMike]

I think you build a playoff team through the draft with a little assistance through free agency, and you target free agency and become buyers at the deadline when you are trying to go from contender to championship threat because a lot of those big free agency contracts realistically have a 2-3 season window despite what the figures look like when the contract is signed and most teams once they are good enough to contend for a championship likely have a 2-3 season window to get it done before too many of those bills come calling to be paid.

 

Unfortunately in Washington for a long time under Snyder he tried to use free agency as too major of a tool for the initial building process.

[CapsSkins]

14 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

I think you build a playoff team through the draft with a little assistance through free agency, and you target free agency and become buyers at the deadline when you are trying to go from contender to championship threat because a lot of those big free agency contracts realistically have a 2-3 season window despite what the figures look like when the contract is signed and most teams once they are good enough to contend for a championship likely have a 2-3 season window to get it done before too many of those bills come calling to be paid.

 

Unfortunately in Washington for a long time under Snyder he tried to use free agency as too major of a tool for the initial building process.

 

Though interestingly, we have a two year window where Sam is cost-controlled so we can sign some front-loaded deals to fill up cap for 2024-25.

[lovemaskins]

26 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Though interestingly, we have a two year window where Sam is cost-controlled so we can sign some front-loaded deals to fill up cap for 2024-25.

 most likely we have just next year. His price increases the longer we wait and he continues to improve and we can’t take advantage of the 5th year option. We should be resigning him after next year going into the final year of his rookie contract vice potentially playing the franchise tag game sans Kirk Cousins…

 

it’s what the best teams did, San Diego, Philly, Kansas City, Cincy, all signed their QBs early… letting the contract expire isn’t smart.

Edited November 2, 2023 by lovemaskins

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, glongest said:

He doesn't get credit for whatever Howell does in my book.  He said himself when asked why he didn't play last year was because they didn't realize what they had.  Really?  You scouted him, you drafted him, you had him in training camp, you coached him but yet you did not know what you had.  Well then you don't get credit for him now that he is playing well.  It just happens to be that he appears to have potential despite your ineptness to evaluate talent.  

He drafted Howell, fired his hand picked OC and hired EB to coach Howell, whom he pretty much committed to as starter in the offseason.  I say pretty much, because he hadn’t really done enough to not at least give the facade that he had to earn it.

 

There’s a lot wrong with Ron and him answering every question asked of him with something about Howell is downright shameful.  But let’s say Sam and EB keep going in the direction of games like Philly down the stretch, Rivera would deserve the credit for making that happen.  I don’t have a lot of confidence that will happen, but if it does - I’ll tip my cap.

Edited November 2, 2023 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, NoCalMike said:

I think you build a playoff team through the draft with a little assistance through free agency, and you target free agency and become buyers at the deadline when you are trying to go from contender to championship threat because a lot of those big free agency contracts realistically have a 2-3 season window despite what the figures look like when the contract is signed and most teams once they are good enough to contend for a championship likely have a 2-3 season window to get it done before too many of those bills come calling to be paid.

 

Unfortunately in Washington for a long time under Snyder he tried to use free agency as too major of a tool for the initial building process.

This hasn’t been true in 13 years. 
 

We have one of the highest drafted roster percentages in the league.  
 

This year, I think only Wylie, Gates, Thomas, Samuel  and Barton were prominent FA starters. Literally everybody else was drafted by this team.

 

it’s bananas to me this line is thinking persisted after 13 years of not actually doing it.  It like the entire fam base has 2000 PTSD and can’t get over the fact we spent on Deion and Bruce Smith literally 24 years ago.  
 

It still isn’t a great roster.  But the “too many FAS not enough draft” argument hasn’t been true in over a decade.  

30 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

He drafted Howell, fired his hand picked OC and hired EB to coach Howell, whom he pretty much committed to as starter in the offseason.  I say pretty much, because he hadn’t really done enough to not at least give the facade that he had to earn it.

 

There’s a lot wrong with Ron and him answering every question asked of him with something about Howell is downright shameful.  But let’s say Sam and EB keep going in the direction of games like Philly down the stretch, Rivera would deserve the credit for making that happen.  I don’t have a lot of confidence that will happen, but if it does - I’ll tip my cap.

Tip of the hat and a boot out the door.  

[Ball Security]

22 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

This hasn’t been true in 13 years. 
 

We have one of the highest drafted roster percentages in the league.  
 

This year, I think only Wylie, Gates, Thomas, Samuel  and Barton were prominent FA starters. Literally everybody else was drafted by this team.

 

it’s bananas to me this line is thinking persisted after 13 years of not actually doing it.  It like the entire fam base has 2000 PTSD and can’t get over the fact we spent on Deion and Bruce Smith literally 24 years ago.  
 

It still isn’t a great roster.  But the “too many FAS not enough draft” argument hasn’t been true in over a decade.  

Tip of the hat and a boot out the door.  

Add Fuller and Leno to starting FAs.

[MisterPinstripe]

15 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Add Fuller and Leno to starting FAs.

We drafted Fuller soooooo

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

44 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Tip of the hat and a boot out the door.  

Yeah, at this point barring some type of miracle 7-2 finish and a playoff win with a close loss - I don’t think there’s any chance Rivera and gang are back.

[Koolblue13]

[Voice_of_Reason]

32 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Add Fuller and Leno to starting FAs.

Leno I forgot. 
 

Fuller we drafted and never should have let walk.  

4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 All of this is fully except Young isn’t near one of the premier defensive players in the league. 

[MartinC]

8 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

"Two lower picks is better than one high pick"

 

Wonder if we can trade back our out of the first for a day two pick and a first next year.

Too good an opportunity to get a blue chip OT with our first round pick. I wouldn’t get cute.

[Koolblue13]

18 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Too good an opportunity to get a blue chip OT with our first round pick. I wouldn’t get cute.

While you're probably right. There are dozens of tackles in this class. This draft is made for our weaknesses. I'd love a high end LT though.

[philibusters]

22 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Leno I forgot. 
 

Fuller we drafted and never should have let walk.  

 All of this is fully except Young isn’t near one of the premier defensive players in the league. 

 

Leno is not a free agent.  It is true they could cut him and only have 4.5 million deadcap vs. having him on the roster as a 15.75 million cap hit next year, but he is not a free agent.

 

The nice thing about having the ability to move on front a contract is you don't have to make a decision before the draft.  For example, if we draft a RT in the draft, we just keep Leno for another season and start the rookie at RT.  By contrast if we get a big time LT in the draft we could move on from Leno.

 

Leno has subtle value.  Yeah he is an average starter, but he never gets hurt and is more steady-eddy than some of other O-Lineman.  His compensation is honestly in the range of what he should get.  70.4 PFF grade this year, 71.6 last year, never misses a game.  I think people want to move on from him because he is older, but he is an asset not a liability for the team.

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

Leno is not a free agent.  It is true they could cut him and only have 4.5 million deadcap vs. having him on the roster as a 15.75 million cap hit next year, but he is not a free agent.

 

The nice thing about having the ability to move on front a contract is you don't have to make a decision before the draft.  For example, if we draft a RT in the draft, we just keep Leno for another season and start the rookie at RT.  By contrast if we get a big time LT in the draft we could move on from Leno.

 

Leno has subtle value.  Yeah he is an average starter, but he never gets hurt and is more steady-eddy than some of other O-Lineman.  His compensation is honestly in the range of what he should get.  70.4 PFF grade this year, 71.6 last year, never misses a game.  I think people want to move on from him because he is older, but he is an asset not a liability for the team.

I think you missed the point.  We were discussing how players got here, draft or FA.

 

Leno was a FA we signed. 

[clskinsfan]

Anyone else been playing with draft games with the extra 2 picks? Do it and realize why getting rid of dead weight for 2nd and 3rds makes sense. And even if those picks dont hit. Neither did the players we traded. Gutting the 31st ranked defense in the NFL was the right move. The rebuild has started. EMBRACE IT.