The Official 2023 ES Free Agency Thread... available until Free Agency 2024 begins

[Koolblue13]

6 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

With a load of suitors, I can’t imagine we’re too high on his list.  Might help our case if we win one of our next two though…

True, but money talks and Collins is good enough to be a clear upgrade moving forward at RT.

 

It's too bad that EB and Ron believe in Wylie. Clear example as to why coaches shouldn't be the GM.

[skinny21]

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

True, but money talks and Collins is good enough to be a clear upgrade moving forward at RT.

 

It's too bad that EB and Ron believe in Wylie. Clear example as to why coaches shouldn't be the GM.

Money can make a difference for sure, and I certainly don’t disagree that we should pursue him.  I hear you on believing in Wylie, though I think the reporting that OT was the top target in the 1st this past draft suggests they didn’t have Wylie’s name written in pen at RT (more like lightly penciled maybe), but I could be wrong.  Personally, I think Wylie was the kind of capable stopgap FOs usually sign to fill a hole prior to seeing what the draft brings.  I think he was an adequate choice for that role, unfortunately we didn’t land an OT with (at least short term) potential… and I still assume Daniels might be better suited for G, though I suppose it’s possible he could fill Lucas’ role starting next year.

 

Regardless, OT is a huge need for us going forward.  If Collins is indeed a good candidate there (in terms of fit), I hope they pursue him.  Could help us later this season, as well as alleviate the pressure to draft a tackle early next year.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

38 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Money can make a difference for sure, and I certainly don’t disagree that we should pursue him.  I hear you on believing in Wylie, though I think the reporting that OT was the top target in the 1st this past draft suggests they didn’t have Wylie’s name written in pen at RT (more like lightly penciled maybe), but I could be wrong.  Personally, I think Wylie was the kind of capable stopgap FOs usually sign to fill a hole prior to seeing what the draft brings.  I think he was an adequate choice for that role, unfortunately we didn’t land an OT with (at least short term) potential… and I still assume Daniels might be better suited for G, though I suppose it’s possible he could fill Lucas’ role starting next year.

 

Regardless, OT is a huge need for us going forward.  If Collins is indeed a good candidate there (in terms of fit), I hope they pursue him.  Could help us later this season, as well as alleviate the pressure to draft a tackle early next year.

 

We needed to go into the draft with pieces in place on the OL so we didn't force a pick. We did not force a pick and are now rolling with our FA-based OL (Stromberg won't start anytime soon this year, I don't think). 

 

This OL is set up to go into the next off-season exactly the same. So we'll be in position again to get an OT early. And that could allow us to move on from Charles Leno and part of his $14m cap hit next year. But hopefully after 2 drafts with this OL essentially in place we can come away with some good outside OL talent. I think we are set on the IOL ... Charles and Cosmi have been playing extremely well, and we have Gates/Stromberg manning OC for a bit as well. Just need long-term solutions to LT and RT, with Whylie being a veteran backup long-term.

 

I'd be all for double-dipping at OT next draft. But understand it'll have to line-up in the right way for it to make sense for us. I would even consider trading into the Top 10 to get one of the Top 3 OTs if we are picking in the late teens/early 20s. We need to get a stallwart at LT.

[bowhunter]

2 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Money can make a difference for sure, and I certainly don’t disagree that we should pursue him.

 

One argument I heard (here) against such a move is that he would have to take up and hold a roster spot immediately. And if he will indeed be several weeks before being able to contribute, I get that.  He's too talented to be able to stash away on the PS. I assume we could sign him and briefly release someone, and then put him on IR? Would that be possible?

[mh86]

2 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

We needed to go into the draft with pieces in place on the OL so we didn't force a pick. We did not force a pick and are now rolling with our FA-based OL (Stromberg won't start anytime soon this year, I don't think). 

Agreed about OT. Stromberg will likely see playing time this season. When cosmi was thought to be injured stromberg came in to play. With that info I’d think he’s next man up and with our guards often injured it’s a good chance. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

True, but money talks and Collins is good enough to be a clear upgrade moving forward at RT.

Ok, but go with me here:

 

Why was he released by the Bengals off of PUP?  I haven't seen any details.  But the Bengals wouldn't just release him for no reason.  There has to be SOMETHING going on.  And it can't be just the injury.  Something else.  

 

Something isn't right in Denmark with this.  And the speed to which the agent got it out there were 12 teams who showed interest....  

 

I dunno.  Something isn't right. I don't know what isn't right, but I know enough to know that something isn't right, and I wouldn't jump on that train until I knew what the deal was.  

2 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I'd be all for double-dipping at OT next draft. But understand it'll have to line-up in the right way for it to make sense for us. I would even consider trading into the Top 10 to get one of the Top 3 OTs if we are picking in the late teens/early 20s. We need to get a stallwart at LT.

I wanted us to trade up into the top 10 this year to get the best OT they could get.  And whether they play right or left, work that out later.  

 

I will say, at least through 2 games, Charles has been a pleasant surprise.  The staff wanted him to win the job, he did, and he's been playing well, for the most part.  He will get blown up from time to time.  But every guard in the NFL is going to get blown up from time to time.  It's just kindof life.  You just need to make sure you don't get blown up consistently.  That's when it's a problem.  DT's get paid too, and they will win from time to time.  

[skinny21]

47 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Ok, but go with me here:

 

Why was he released by the Bengals off of PUP?  I haven't seen any details.  But the Bengals wouldn't just release him for no reason.  There has to be SOMETHING going on.  And it can't be just the injury.  Something else.  

 

Something isn't right in Denmark with this.  And the speed to which the agent got it out there were 12 teams who showed interest....  

 

I dunno.  Something isn't right. I don't know what isn't right, but I know enough to know that something isn't right, and I wouldn't jump on that train until I knew what the deal was.  

I wanted us to trade up into the top 10 this year to get the best OT they could get.  And whether they play right or left, work that out later.  

 

I will say, at least through 2 games, Charles has been a pleasant surprise.  The staff wanted him to win the job, he did, and he's been playing well, for the most part.  He will get blown up from time to time.  But every guard in the NFL is going to get blown up from time to time.  It's just kindof life.  You just need to make sure you don't get blown up consistently.  That's when it's a problem.  DT's get paid too, and they will win from time to time.  

I have the same question regarding Collins…

 

In terms of Charles and our line as a whole, I think you hit the nail on the head wrt the problem with this oline (at least so far) - consistency.  Each of them has a couple or few gaffes a game, and those mistakes add up (actually, I haven’t noticed errors from Cosmi, but I may have missed some).  Of course, they also get magnified if/when the ball doesn’t come out quickly…

 

 

[MartinC]

7 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Ok, but go with me here:

 

Why was he released by the Bengals off of PUP?  I haven't seen any details.  But the Bengals wouldn't just release him for no reason.  There has to be SOMETHING going on.  And it can't be just the injury.  Something else.  

 

Something isn't right in Denmark with this.  And the speed to which the agent got it out there were 12 teams who showed interest....  

 

The Bengals signed Orlando Brown to a big free agent deal. They knew Collins would not be healthy after the ACL and signed his replacement.

 

I doubt Collins will be able to be ready to play anytime soon, he tore all three knee ligaments in December. It will probably be next season before he’s ready to play and it remains to be seen if he can come back at a good starter level. He wasn’t highly graded last season before he got hurt (FWIW).

[Voice_of_Reason]

47 minutes ago, MartinC said:

The Bengals signed Orlando Brown to a big free agent deal. They knew Collins would not be healthy after the ACL and signed his replacement.

 

I doubt Collins will be able to be ready to play anytime soon, he tore all three knee ligaments in December. It will probably be next season before he’s ready to play and it remains to be seen if he can come back at a good starter level. He wasn’t highly graded last season before he got hurt (FWIW).

Ok on all of that but why now?  That’s the part which is so odd.  

[FootballZombie]

53 minutes ago, MartinC said:

The Bengals signed Orlando Brown to a big free agent deal. They knew Collins would not be healthy after the ACL and signed his replacement.

 

I doubt Collins will be able to be ready to play anytime soon, he tore all three knee ligaments in December. It will probably be next season before he’s ready to play and it remains to be seen if he can come back at a good starter level. He wasn’t highly graded last season before he got hurt (FWIW).

 

Oof.

 

I thought the idea was he may not be able to help now, but maybe later this season. If he can't get back until next year, there is no point in us going after him at all.

[MartinC]

8 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Ok on all of that but why now?  That’s the part which is so odd.  

Not sure, probably had to negotiate an injury settlement.

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Not sure, probably had to negotiate an injury settlement.

I dunno.  It still feels off to me.  

7 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Oof.

 

I thought the idea was he may not be able to help now, but maybe later this season. If he can't get back until next year, there is no point in us going after him at all.

He tore his ACL basically on Christmas of last year.  
 

The earliest would be November. That’s 11 months, but no practices or training camp or anything other than rehab.  Most likely it’s next year. 

[DWinzit]

Cincy had better OT depth than most teams and still look solid with Collins departure. Matter of fact, I mentioned that I hoped our staff was paying attention to them in our final preseason game. They were one of the few teams that would have been worth approaching about a OT or watching for their cut downs. It indeed sounded like they had to wait for an injury settlement.

 

No way I'd expect any assistance from Collins until at least November. After the past few years of injuries and talent level, we'd probably all welcome him with open arms whether playing the inside or even a backup on the outside at first. Then know you have him for next season and he wouldn't be that expensive.

 

 

[method man]

Came across an article suggesting we trade for Kyle Pitts as ATL continues to waste his value with their run heavy scheme. I actually agree with this thought if he costs a 2nd or even a 2nd+. If Chase can recoup some value the next few weeks, we are perfect trade partners as they need someone like Chase. 
 

If ATL lets Pitts go, they still have a starting caliber TE in Jonnu Smith.

[Koolblue13]

12 minutes ago, method man said:

Came across an article suggesting we trade for Kyle Pitts as ATL continues to waste his value with their run heavy scheme. I actually agree with this thought if he costs a 2nd or even a 2nd+. If Chase can recoup some value the next few weeks, we are perfect trade partners as they need someone like Chase. 
 

If ATL lets Pitts go, they still have a starting caliber TE in Jonnu Smith.

I would trade a 2nd for Pitts in a heartbeat. 

[Rex Tomb]

4 hours ago, method man said:

Came across an article suggesting we trade for Kyle Pitts as ATL continues to waste his value with their run heavy scheme. I actually agree with this thought if he costs a 2nd or even a 2nd+. If Chase can recoup some value the next few weeks, we are perfect trade partners as they need someone like Chase. 
 

If ATL lets Pitts go, they still have a starting caliber TE in Jonnu Smith.

That would require someone with forward thinking at the helm... not sure Ron's the guy to make a move like that.  "Riverboat" Ron is is just that... a riverboat in the time of steam engine trains.

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Rex Tomb

[Going Commando]

22 minutes ago, method man said:

Came across an article suggesting we trade for Kyle Pitts as ATL continues to waste his value with their run heavy scheme. I actually agree with this thought if he costs a 2nd or even a 2nd+. If Chase can recoup some value the next few weeks, we are perfect trade partners as they need someone like Chase. 
 

If ATL lets Pitts go, they still have a starting caliber TE in Jonnu Smith.

 

We should not trade Chase Young for a ****ing tight end.

[redskinss]

4 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

We should not trade Chase Young for a ****ing tight end.

I agree, our defensive line being able to take over games rushing only 4 is going to be our identity this year.

This fanbase has a strong tendency to want to trade any player they think is going to walk in the offseason. 

Last year the overwhelming narrative was to trade Payne now while he's at his peak value so he doesn't walk for nothing.

A lot of people would have been very happy with Ron had he done that and we'd be minus a near all pro level defensive tackle for a day two pick.

[Going Commando]

4 minutes ago, redskinss said:

I agree, our defensive line being able to take over games rushing only 4 is going to be our identity this year.

This fanbase has a strong tendency to want to trade any player they think is going to walk in the offseason. 

Last year the overwhelming narrative was to trade Payne now while he's at his peak value so he doesn't walk for nothing.

A lot of people would have been very happy with Ron had he done that and we'd be minus a near all pro level defensive tackle for a day two pick.

 

Yep.  I don't know what Chase's future holds, but I do know I wouldn't cut bait on a potential top five edge rusher for any reason.  Worst case scenario, Chase can't stay on the field and he either leaves or signs a prove it deal.  Next worse case scenario, Chase is good and we franchise him and play for time on an extension.  Best case scenario he balls out and we get a long term deal done and we have a DPOY caliber player at the most impactful position on a defense.

 

Ron has been 3 for 3 on getting our most important extensions done over the last two summers.  He's built up some benefit of the doubt for handling these situations.  I'm going to trust him to get Montez and Chase done too.  I hate the idea of trading our best players because we're afraid of having to negotiate with them.  I hated the idea of trading Daron last year, and I hate the idea of selling low on a talent like Chase.

[KillBill26]

On 9/19/2023 at 3:36 PM, Voice_of_Reason said:

Ok, but go with me here:

 

Why was he released by the Bengals off of PUP?  I haven't seen any details.  But the Bengals wouldn't just release him for no reason.  There has to be SOMETHING going on.  And it can't be just the injury.  Something else.  

 

Something isn't right in Denmark with this.  And the speed to which the agent got it out there were 12 teams who showed interest.... 

As someone mentioned it, fellow tackle Orlando brown got a huge deal.   Burrow just got a boatload of money.  You know they want to extend jamaar chase in the near future, maybe also want to extend/tag Higgins?   

 

Cutting him makes sense to me when you combine all factors: need to free up space to lock up your core, and might as well cut bait with Collins now considering you know he isn't part of your long term plan and he doesn't seem to be ready to return anytime soon.  I take anything an agent says with a grain of salt, but I wouldn't be surprised if he is truly garnering a lot of interest based on his age, position, and success in the league.

[method man]

2 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

Yep.  I don't know what Chase's future holds, but I do know I wouldn't cut bait on a potential top five edge rusher for any reason.  Worst case scenario, Chase can't stay on the field and he either leaves or signs a prove it deal.  Next worse case scenario, Chase is good and we franchise him and play for time on an extension.  Best case scenario he balls out and we get a long term deal done and we have a DPOY caliber player at the most impactful position on a defense.

 

Ron has been 3 for 3 on getting our most important extensions done over the last two summers.  He's built up some benefit of the doubt for handling these situations.  I'm going to trust him to get Montez and Chase done too.  I hate the idea of trading our best players because we're afraid of having to negotiate with them.  I hated the idea of trading Daron last year, and I hate the idea of selling low on a talent like Chase.

I might agree with you if they can get Sweat done before the trade deadline. If they don’t, then it becomes sketchy on whether you can retain Chase. The difference between Chase and the other guys is they turned down Chase’s 5th year option. That tells you what you need to know about where he stands from a priority standpoint.

 

With Pitts, we are not talking about any TE but the most athletic TE in NFL and most highly regarded prospect in NFL history. This is a guy who had a Pro Bowl year as a rookie the last time he played with a real NFL QB. If you add him to an offense that focuses on their TEs more than most when it comes to the passing game, you take this offense to another level. It could be the same level of impact adding McCaffrey had for the SF offense.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by method man

[Koolblue13]

3 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

We should not trade Chase Young for a ****ing tight end.

Somehow my brain didn't let me read the Chase Young part. Agreed, that's absolutely stupid.

 

Young for Pitts and their 2nd would be worth thinking about, but I'd rather keep Chase.

[redskinss]

1 hour ago, method man said:

That tells you what you need to know about where he stands from a priority standpoint

This is a bit of a stretch, the difference between the tag and a 5th year option is only a couple million so it was worth the gamble to provide motivation in a "show me" year for chase.

The hardest part is if we want to keep both him and sweat we now have to extend one before the season ends because we can't tag them both and it gives leverage to both of them.

If they're smart they'll team up and use that leverage together to put us in a pickle.

 

1 hour ago, method man said:

and most highly regarded prospect in NFL history

This is a Reed richards/gumby level stretch.

He's a fantastic prospect but most highly regarded prospect in NFL history?

I don't think so.

The irony is that if you compiled a list of the most highly touted prospects in nfl history he wouldn't even rank above the one we're currently talking about trading for him.

Edited September 22, 2023 by redskinss

[Conn]

This is just a dumb hypothetical but there’s no doubt in my mind that Pitts on 2-3 more years of a rookie contract is worth more than Young who needs to be franchise tagged or paid. Pitts is in a horrendous situation for a pass catcher but is an alpha WR1 in a TE’s body. The massive help that would be for Howell developing (especially as we continue to build the OL in the next year or two) far outweighs the impact we’ll likely get from Young. Then again, I’m not sold that Young is elite and “back” to himself necessarily, either. The truly next level elite QBs in this league almost without exception have been paired with stud TEs and Pitts is a young one with an unseeable ceiling. I’d rather invest in and bet on Howell than Young and that’s how I’d see a swap like that. 
 

Again, doesn’t matter though bc this is a made up hypothetical. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

I'm still skeptical of Young producing after a normally career debilitating or ending injury with the patellar rupture.

 

On the miracle chance he recovers his old athleticism than that is more valuable than Pitts who is a big slot.

 

That said, Pitts is a big slot, you don't trade for him thinking he's taking snaps away from Logan Thomas, Bates, Turner etc. You trade for him thinking he's replacing Curtis Samuel's role. Samuel is an impending FA.

 

I think there's no trade for awhile and both teams want to stand still as they are 2-0 and neither is really sure how everything is going to work out.

 

Also Pitts makes 9 million this season. We would need to do some big restructures or contract extensions to squeeze him in.