Monday Night Game Night Thread: Washington at Philly - Heinicke's Last Stand, Wentz if it Hurts

[DJHJR86]

Yesterday was the 1 year anniversary of when the WFT beat the Bucs and beat them the same way.  Ran the ball.  Converted third downs.  Ate the clock.  

[mistertim]

6 hours ago, CommanderCarson said:

They were not one dimensional. They converted a ton of third a shorts through the pass game as well. Let’s stop acting like heineke threw for 95 yards and was just handing the ball off, there were a lot of throws he made to help them win that game.

 

Heineke has two distinct flaws in my opinion, and one makes the other worse. He’s late. The interception was a throw that was open but only for a split second. And not only was he late, but he doesn’t have the arm strength to make that throw late. Some QBs do, heck even Wentz is probably one of those guys. But when you’re late, AND have lower tier arm strength, that’s when you run into some issues. And we see that on display every game, at least a few times. 
 

Either way though, the mental gymnastics some of you guys do to convince yourselves Heineke is an absolutely atrocious QB that we are lucky to win in spite of is getting to be pretty out there as a take. He has a winning record as a starter of this team, with over a full year sample size. Some backups come in for teams that lose their starters and don’t win another game. So it’s one of two things. We either have the most stacked roster in the league and can have a winning record with the worst QB in football. OR, and far more likely, we have a decent to above average roster that plays hard for him and he makes plays that help the team win more than they lose.

 

I have read on here a ton that the book on Heineke was written and that d coordinators could stack the box and dare him to throw and he was toast. At the very least, that’s not the case. So hopefully those same individuals can admit they are wrong and enjoy what heineke brings to the table.

 

Also, before this is quoted as being some Heineke love fest, let me please say that I hope the team explores every option at the QB position going forward and that I welcome an upgrade whether it’s via draft or trade or FA. It’s why I was cool with the Wentz trade, thought it was worth the gamble. I think Heineke is the best backup you could ever ask for, a limited starter overall due to physical limitations. But if I read one more thing about him making the team entirely one dimensional because he can’t throw the ball at all, im going to call it out. He made plenty of throws tonight, in fact, I’d say some of the best he’s ever thrown. Enjoy it and stop making everyone that can recognize what Heineke brings feel like they are a “hiver.”

 

By the way, I quoted your post but a lot of this is directed toward many posts I’ve seen on the subject. 

 

When I say 1 dimensional what I mean is they were almost completely reliant on the run for the offensive plan to work, not that we ran the ball 95% of the time. The run was working, which gave us shorter 3rd downs, and which allowed all of those short and intermediate passes off of play action to be easier and more effective. I think if the run didn't work and we had to rely on the pass, we would have been in trouble.

 

And I don't think Heinicke was atrocious or that he is. I think he's a good backup. My only issue is with the take that some seem to be on board with of Heinicke was the star the game or something. Yes he made a beautiful throw to Terry and he got the ball where it needed to be on other short throws. But let's not act like he lit the world on fire. He threw for 211 yards, 0 TDs and 1 INT.

 

As far as stacking the box, that sort of goes out the window if the opposing team does it and still can't stop the run. The Eagles were putting guys in the box but we were still able to run the ball well enough to move the chains pretty much all game.

 

Either way, I said yesterday and still think that the team won't and shouldn't move to Wentz for now. But that doesn't mean anything more than neither of them are very good, but we should roll with the hot hand.

[NickyJ]

21 minutes ago, hail2skins said:

The call on Graham was understandable, but are there really people who would've been OK if the first guy who touched Heinicke from more of the side would've been flagged?

I'd have to watch the play again, but I recall the first player getting to him being only touching him or kind of aggressively hugging him. Graham fell on him long after Heinicke had knelt.

[El Mexican]

8 minutes ago, Dark Acre said:

49 for a buck fifty-two, buddy.  Get it right.  And 211 moxie yards in the passing game.  Somewhere, a football narrator with a deep, gravelly voice, smiles from the eternal gridiron as the Washington Commanders banged their way down the throats of their NFC East rivals 49 times and played opportunistic defense, ripping the ball away at just the right time.  DA-da-da-da-da-DA  [insert tympanies, triangles, and flutes]  And Taylor Heinecke showed why he is the phi beta kappa of NFL quarterbacks by smartly inducing one of the dumbest roughing the passer penalties ever captured on film.

 

Three yards and a pile of dust. Throw deep sporadically.

 

My kind of football :]

[Dan T.]

When your Philly friends complain about the call on Graham, show them this:

 

[Ball Security]

Two underrated plays:  Heinicke finding D Brown at the end of the first half and Brown’s catch to set up the FG try.  Second, the Eagles declining a five yard penalty on 3rd and 13.  Both allowed them to kick long FGs which was difference in the game.

 

Also, I noticed Cosmi in at the end of the game, but after someone mentioned it, he was in the second quarter as well.  I guess that was the plan to rotate him and Lucas.

[Going Commando]

3 hours ago, Die Hard said:

I never thought the Eagles looked flat. They looked like a confident team that was hanging around waiting for Washington to inevitably self-implode. We’ve all seen it enough.

 

They made a lot of mistakes.  Quite a few drops and penalties and turnovers, when they had otherwise been sharp all year.  I think they were looking past us and we exploited basically their one big weakness (run D) and made them pay for their mistakes.

 

We were ready to kill Heinicke for his INT, and he did mess up bad floating that ball into the bracket coverage (and leaving it inside when it has to be outside shoulder us or nobody placement to have any chance) when he should have read that safety better and thrown it to Samuels instead.  But Hurts made the same mistake and it was an even worse throw than Heiny's as he did it in the middle of the field and had way more space to throw it outside and away from the safety.  And he didn't make many clutch throws like Taylor did.  He gets the benefit of the doubt, but last night Taylor was the better QB.

 

I agree with you that they were still confident, they are a great team and made a lot of strong plays.  But I think the number of mistakes they made was out of character for them, and I think key guys like AJ Brown and Brandon Graham had surprisingly bad games.  And on top of that, Brown and Sweat and Kelce all got banged up last night.  That plus the fact that we laid out the gameplan for beating them to upcoming opponents like TN.  Plus there has always been the question of whether their passing offense is good enough to stage come backs... there is some trouble brewing for Philly.  They are mortal now, and I honestly think the 49ers and Vikings are more balanced than them.

[DJHJR86]

They beat the undefeated Steelers in 2020.  They beat the undefeated Raiders coin prediction guy in 2021.  And now they beat the undefeated Eagles in 2022.  Rivera's teams are so weird man.

[RandyHolt]

24 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Two underrated plays:  Heinicke finding D Brown at the end of the first half and Brown’s catch to set up the FG try.  Second, the Eagles declining a five yard penalty on 3rd and 13.  Both allowed them to kick long FGs which was difference in the game.

 

Also, I noticed Cosmi in at the end of the game, but after someone mentioned it, he was in the second quarter as well.  I guess that was the plan to rotate him and Lucas.

Times have changed - speaking of switching out OL mid game not so long ago would make peoples heads explode saying you cannot ever do that! Continuity blah blah all the other players rotate out why the hell not especially if someone is much better at run or pass pro, or someone needs a breather after our glorious time consuming Philthy fan back breaking drives. **** that ****hole stadium.

Edited November 15, 2022 by RandyHolt

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

They beat the undefeated Steelers in 2020.  They beat the undefeated Raiders coin prediction guy in 2021.  And now they beat the undefeated Eagles in 2022.  Rivera's teams are so weird man.

And both head coaching jobs led to owners selling their teams.  

[DJHJR86]

With all of the **** that went down with Snyder over the last week to Rivera losing his mother...I don't know how the man can keep his sanity.  He should probably get the Presidentiall Medal of Freedom for what he's gone through with this franchise.

[Koolblue13]

2 hours ago, CommanderDOOM said:

 

 

Wait, what??? That guy's an eagles fan??

 

I'm a Washington fan from Philly. I like both teams, but I'm a commies fan first.

[RandyHolt]

1 hour ago, rumplestilskin said:

I almost trust Joey more with the long kicks than the chip shots. Dude was ice.

I just realized - on the long kicks no one less people expect him to make - maybe he has far less pressure?

[kingdaddy]

14 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I just realized - on the long kicks no one less people expect him to make - maybe he has far less pressure?

Isn't it great having a kicker who can make bombs like Slye can? 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

16 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Plus there has always been the question of whether their passing offense is good enough to stage come backs... there is some trouble brewing for Philly.  They are mortal now, and I honestly think the 49ers and Vikings are more balanced than them.

 

I don't know that I agree with this part. To me, this was an anomaly game for Philly in that a bunch of things went wrong for them not to come back and win. I don't think it forecasts that they aren't capable of doing so in future games for a few reasons....

 

1) They were still moving the ball pretty well through the air until they stopped themselves or were stopped by very impressive defensive plays - the drive to pull within 2 and then the big play to Watkins (pre-fumble) when they were down 5 are examples of the passing game carrying them against a very strong defense

2) They essentially didn't participate for the 2nd and 3rd quarters offensively and still had a very good chance to win the game until that Watkins fumble and the ensuing drive (I believe that ended with a 3-and-out/sack of Hurts)

3) A lot of things that don't typically happen went against them/for their opponent: 2 very long FGs, missed personal foul on a turnover leading to points, perfect game plan, etc. 

[NeverSurrender]

7 hours ago, CommanderCarson said:

They were not one dimensional. They converted a ton of third a shorts through the pass game as well. Let’s stop acting like heineke threw for 95 yards and was just handing the ball off, there were a lot of throws he made to help them win that game.

 

Heineke has two distinct flaws in my opinion, and one makes the other worse. He’s late. The interception was a throw that was open but only for a split second. And not only was he late, but he doesn’t have the arm strength to make that throw late. Some QBs do, heck even Wentz is probably one of those guys. But when you’re late, AND have lower tier arm strength, that’s when you run into some issues. And we see that on display every game, at least a few times. 
 

Either way though, the mental gymnastics some of you guys do to convince yourselves Heineke is an absolutely atrocious QB that we are lucky to win in spite of is getting to be pretty out there as a take. He has a winning record as a starter of this team, with over a full year sample size. Some backups come in for teams that lose their starters and don’t win another game. So it’s one of two things. We either have the most stacked roster in the league and can have a winning record with the worst QB in football. OR, and far more likely, we have a decent to above average roster that plays hard for him and he makes plays that help the team win more than they lose.

 

I have read on here a ton that the book on Heineke was written and that d coordinators could stack the box and dare him to throw and he was toast. At the very least, that’s not the case. So hopefully those same individuals can admit they are wrong and enjoy what heineke brings to the table.

 

Also, before this is quoted as being some Heineke love fest, let me please say that I hope the team explores every option at the QB position going forward and that I welcome an upgrade whether it’s via draft or trade or FA. It’s why I was cool with the Wentz trade, thought it was worth the gamble. I think Heineke is the best backup you could ever ask for, a limited starter overall due to physical limitations. But if I read one more thing about him making the team entirely one dimensional because he can’t throw the ball at all, im going to call it out. He made plenty of throws tonight, in fact, I’d say some of the best he’s ever thrown. Enjoy it and stop making everyone that can recognize what Heineke brings feel like they are a “hiver.”

 

By the way, I quoted your post but a lot of this is directed toward many posts I’ve seen on the subject. 

Thank you for speaking on this. I really think there should be a Heinekie hater thread they can all go in and bash the guy.  If he just showed that we can literally beat the best team in the league with him as our QB, then what exactly is the limitation on him?  People act like Wentz didn't turn the ball over at all and we got a whole 8 points against the Fecals last game.  Also, we should have put this game away even earlier then we did, they play calling in the redzone just baffles me sometimes.  1st and 10 inside the 5 yard line.... run it 4 times....

[balki1867]

56 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

When your Philly friends complain about the call on Graham, show them this:

 

 

Anyone complaining about that call is laughable.  Reddick (#7) made contact with Heinicke first and was able to pull up and not draw a penalty.  Graham was actually the second person to make contact with Heinicke and pushed forward with his hands even as he was hitting him. 

 

I'll give them the facemask as a notably bad call, but so was the offensive PI on Washington (albeit less egregious).  The late hit was 100% the right call though.

[lovemaskins]

10 minutes ago, NeverSurrender said:

Thank you for speaking on this. I really think there should be a Heinekie hater thread they can all go in and bash the guy.  If he just showed that we can literally beat the best team in the league with him as our QB, then what exactly is the limitation on him?  People act like Wentz didn't turn the ball over at all and we got a whole 8 points against the Fecals last game.  Also, we should have put this game away even earlier then we did, they play calling in the redzone just baffles me sometimes.  1st and 10 inside the 5 yard line.... run it 4 times....

Yeah I wondered about the same thing..: pounded the ball all the way down the field to the 5 and got cute and threw the ball on 2nd and 3rd down… took a sack and had to settle for a field goal to go up 23-14…. POUND THE DAMN BALL BRUH!, they haven’t shown they could stop it all night, 4 down territory.  4th and goal at the 1, go for it…. I thought that was gonna come back to bite us, almost did.

[Dan T.]

23 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I just realized - on the long kicks no one less people expect him to make - maybe he has far less pressure?

 

7 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Isn't it great having a kicker who can make bombs like Slye can? 

 

 

It seems like his kicks never fly straight.  He's like the weekend golfer who has a wicked slice but plays to it.

 

That said, Cheeseman didn't do him any favors last night.  Tress Way handled some bad snaps and got the ball spotted for Slye.

[Warhead36]

The Eagles definitely made some uncharacteristic mistakes, but they were also due to have some turnovers.

 

They were due a slightly off game. They're good but they aren't undefeated season good. And we were just good enough to take advantage of their mistakes to get the W.

[Morneblade]

32 minutes ago, NeverSurrender said:

Thank you for speaking on this. I really think there should be a Heinekie hater thread they can all go in and bash the guy.  If he just showed that we can literally beat the best team in the league with him as our QB, then what exactly is the limitation on him?  People act like Wentz didn't turn the ball over at all and we got a whole 8 points against the Fecals last game.  Also, we should have put this game away even earlier then we did, they play calling in the redzone just baffles me sometimes.  1st and 10 inside the 5 yard line.... run it 4 times....

 

Well, for one, he has a noodle arm. Listen. I freakin' LOVE Tayor. But dammit, I wish he had a real NFL arm. He doesn't, it's that simple. But, he's mobile, he's smart, he can read an NFL defense (sorry for you, RGIII) and he's got more moxie than and QB we've had in decades. He elevates the entire team. Is he optimal? No. short and noodle arm. But he's got other things going for him, and you can win with him, if you go to his strengths. We need more roll outs. Use some WCO schemes. Stuff like that. You can win with him. But the playcalling has to really be on point, and you have to be smart.

[NoVaSkins21]

First game  in a long time where this team out-coached the opposition and it came on one of the biggest of stages.  Credit to the coaching staff for a job well done

[XxSpearheadxX]

Friggin Heinecke with a dip in holding a spit cup in his post game 😂 

[Koolblue13]

[Renegade7]

12 hours ago, Yng Lady88 said:

My mom and her sisters are from outside Philly and Im in a group-chat with them all. i really want to talk **** but they're all old and asleep right now.

 

They will feel the pain in the morning. 

 

Yng Lady be like...