Monday Night Game Night Thread: Washington at Philly - Heinicke's Last Stand, Wentz if it Hurts

[Califan007 The Constipated]

4 hours ago, MrJL said:

 

I think Taylor's case was helped by two things.  One,it's after the two minute warning and we have the lead.  After the two minute warning teams kneel.  Some even run backward a few steps as Heinicke  did on one of the kneel downs.  So seeing a QB kneel at that point is something that people are looking for.  Two, Reddick was even closer and put out way more effort to stop than Graham did, which makes the ref have to consider if Graham could have stopped

 

Plus, the rules literally say that if there's any question or doubt about roughing the QB, call the penalty:

 

"When in doubt about a roughness call or potentially dangerous tactic against the quarterback, the Referee should always call roughing the passer."

 

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/roughing-the-passer/

[Going Commando]

3 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Jesus.  How does such a dumbass loser get a sports column?  I'm actually embarrassed for that city that their paper printed that.

[KDawg]

If the plan was to run the ball and be a run first offense ala Tennessee (i think that's an okay plan but it's not all that sustainable unless you have the best bruiser in the NFL)...

 

Then the OL needed to be a higher priority in the offseason.

 

But the plan wasn't that. The plan was to get Wentz, protect him and spread the ball all over the field.

 

But then that didn't work because our OL was absolutely horrendous and Wentz mobility is basically nonexistent at this point. (Which by the way, points to the fact that the OL should have been a higher priority as well).

 

So now, Wentz is out, Heinicke is in. We can't spread the ball all over the field with him, but we have a guy who can move a bit in the pocket and manipulate it. We don't have a bruiser offensive line, so we're not built to run right now and we're not built to pass (Heinicke isn't a great passer, Wentz can't move enough with the OL). 

 

So the OL situation really screws us regardless. We need to get that shored up.

[Skinsinparadise]

Wonder when Schweitzer is coming back, assuming he is?  He's an above average run blocker. 

 

I think they clearly overestimated Masko's ability to make lemonade out lemons because the O line was good the first two years and stayed good even with injuries.

 

I got no fear that they won't fix it.  I don't think Masko lost his touch but instead the FO got arrogant.

 

I haven't rewatched the game albiet Cooley who has said the O line protected well last Monday.

 

I was one of the bigger Scherff fans here, some here didn't care for him.  I wouldn't have paid him the 16 million plus considering his age and injury history so I think they dodged a bullet when Scherff turned down their contract offer.  But I do think they miss his ability to block in space -- elite at that.  They don't really have a great blocker in space aside from Cosmi.  I like Cosmi but his injury history in his young career isn't hot -- actually becoming Scherff like.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[HigSkin]

Good, keep it in check boys...

 

 

[Going Commando]

We see this year that very few teams cope well with losing their center when they had a mainstay at the spot.  It screws up your protections and makes the exchange dicey and bad snaps are drive killers.  It also makes it harder to run the ball well, particularly for us since Roullier was one of our best run blockers and we really struggle with running the ball through the A gaps without him.

 

We're not the only offense that went into a month long spiral after losing our C as we struggled to find a passable replacement.  I think it pretty much happened to every team that lost their starter this year.  The Bucs offense looked absolutely horrible after losing Jensen and still looks kind of weak.  If Kelce had been knocked out of that game instead of just getting taped up and put back in, we would have kicked the **** out of Philly because they wouldn't have scored again.

 

We build in depth to cope with inevitable injuries for all of the other OL positions except C for some reason.  Roullier is one of the toughest roster calls we have to make this spring.  He's got an out in his contract, and after two season ending injuries in a row, we can't rely on him.  If we bring him back, then we know we need a second starter at C on the roster so that our season doesn't spiral away when he goes down.  But he's also not going to be easy to replace, because good rookie starters at the position are rare, and the interior OL free agent class sucks this year.

[lovemaskins]

8 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

Jesus.  How does such a dumbass loser get a sports column?  I'm actually embarrassed for that city that their paper printed that.

It was actually a good read, caters to the Philly fans. I’m sure it got a lot of clicks and still mentions all the bonehead plays the Iggles made and gave credit to B Rob.   I’ve seen worse.  Hell we’ve complained plenty about Jeff Triplets crew.

[method man]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Wonder when Schweitzer is coming back, assuming he is?  He's an above average run blocker. 

 

I think they clearly overestimated Masko's ability to make lemonade out lemons because the O line was good the first two years and stayed good even with injuries.

 

I got no fear that they won't fix it.  I don't think Masko lost his touch but instead the FO got arrogant.

 

I haven't rewatched the game albiet Cooley who has said the O line protected well last Monday.

 

I was one of the bigger Scherff fans here, some here didn't care for him.  I wouldn't have paid him the 16 million plus considering his age and injury history so I think they dodged a bullet when Scherff turned down their contract offer.  But I do think they miss his ability to block in space -- elite at that.  They don't really have a great blocker in space aside from Cosmi.  I like Cosmi but his injury history in his young career isn't hot -- actually becoming Scherff like.

They spoke on the Commanders Talk pod about Schweitzer recently. Supposedly his concussion was very bad and no one should expect him back soon

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

If the plan was to run the ball and be a run first offense ala Tennessee (i think that's an okay plan but it's not all that sustainable unless you have the best bruiser in the NFL)...

 

Then the OL needed to be a higher priority in the offseason.

 

But the plan wasn't that. The plan was to get Wentz, protect him and spread the ball all over the field.

 

But then that didn't work because our OL was absolutely horrendous and Wentz mobility is basically nonexistent at this point. (Which by the way, points to the fact that the OL should have been a higher priority as well).

 

So now, Wentz is out, Heinicke is in. We can't spread the ball all over the field with him, but we have a guy who can move a bit in the pocket and manipulate it. We don't have a bruiser offensive line, so we're not built to run right now and we're not built to pass (Heinicke isn't a great passer, Wentz can't move enough with the OL). 

 

So the OL situation really screws us regardless. We need to get that shored up.

 

There's a rumor the team wanted either the Guard Green or the WR Dotson at #16. When Green was taken, it left just Dotson. Don't know if they were actually going to draft Green if Houston didn't, but it was on their mind.

[skinny21]

22 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

And again, that was the plan last season. It worked for a few games, then teams figured out how to defend it and things crashed and burned.

 

But maybe you're right and we'll somehow just keep being able to do it. I have serious doubts that it's going to be successful down the stretch, but we'll see.

 

And it doesn't have to do with Heinicke specifically. If we were doing this with Wentz I'd say the exact same thing.

For me, there was always a question about those last 4 games and if teams “figured out” how to defend against this style of offense (mainly with, or due to, Heinicke under center).

The primary reasons for my uncertainty here were 1) we faced Dallas twice, 2) Heinicke put on roughly his usual type of performance vs the Eagles (16 points, 247 and a pick), 3) he was terrible against the Giants, but we still ran the ball well (IIRC), 4) our oline and weapons were a bit banged up down the stretch.  

 

So, now we have 4 more games to add to the accounting.  I suppose it’s possible all 4 of the most recent defensive coordinators we’ve faced didn’t notice the last 4 games from last year, or that their players just couldn’t quite execute that type of defense.  But, IMO it’s looking more and more like Dallas was the outlier, that their defense was a matchup nightmare for this offense.  I’ll be honest though, I don’t have an explanation for why Heinicke was so poor vs the Giants.  So I’m leaving that door open.

 

Don’t get me wrong, this isn’t an attempt to prop up Heinicke, and it’s not like I see us going anywhere with this style of play, I just think it’s fair to question whether that premise - defenses will surely figure out how to defend against us - is truly accurate.  And I think it’s fair to also question the subsequent conclusion from that premise - “this isn’t sustainable”.  To be clear, that’s a bit different from questioning if we can continue to win 3 out of every 4 games IMO.

 

Sure, we could point to the Packers and say “Joe Barry”, at the Colts and say “Ehlinger”, maybe point to the back judge vs the Vikes, and the iffy Eagles run D.  But we’re now 4-4 (since the 4 game win streak), Heinicke has roughly had standard Heinicke type games in 5, the ground game still had success in a 6th, and we’ve gone toe to toe in our two most recent games - both against very good teams.

 

And on a somewhat different note (not directed at you), I also question the idea that there’s virtually zero from for error with this style of offense.  Heinicke throws a pick every game, and the team has still moved the chains at times after losing yardage via penalty or blown up plays.  I totally agree though that the margins for error do go down the more 3rd downs you face (ie in this style of offense and with TH under center).  And it’s hard to picture us going anywhere from here - I think playoffs are doubtful, and the odds are long against advancing if we do make it.  Adding to that, I’ll be a little surprised if Heinicke plays more than the next 2 or 3.

 

Edited November 17, 2022 by skinny21

[Llevron]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I got no fear that they won't fix it.  I don't think Masko lost his touch but instead the FO got arrogant.

 

I think that’s exactly what happened. I did too though. I remember telling people we could make these player work cause we always do. 

 

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I was one of the bigger Scherff fans here, some here didn't care for him.  I wouldn't have paid him the 16 million plus considering his age and injury history so I think they dodged a bullet when Scherff turned down their contract offer.  But I do think they miss his ability to block in space -- elite at that.  They don't really have a great blocker in space aside from Cosmi.  I like Cosmi but his injury history in his young career isn't hot -- actually becoming Scherff like.

Probably a stupid question from me but I’m curious, what exactly does blocking “in space” mean? I’m assuming that’s like on a island with a tackle and no support? And also curious what makes one elite at it but I guess that’s probably technical ability and physical ability like everything. 

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

 

I think that’s exactly what happened. I did too though. I remember telling people we could make these player work cause we always do. 

 

Probably a stupid question from me but I’m curious, what exactly does blocking “in space” mean? I’m assuming that’s like on a island with a tackle and no support? And also curious what makes one elite at it but I guess that’s probably technical ability and physical ability like everything. 

Usually refers to getting to the second level to block backers/dbs.  

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

There's a rumor the team wanted either the Guard Green or the WR Dotson at #16. When Green was taken, it left just Dotson. Don't know if they were actually going to draft Green if Houston didn't, but it was on their mind.

 

In the Commanders behind the scenes video put out by the team, you can see them debating for a sec Dotson or Green.  No rumor -- it was a rare window into seeing a draft debate as a fact.  It wasn't much of a debate, one in the room if i recall maybe it was Hurney said Green, Rivera goes Dotson.

 

Will see Green this Sunday.

 

 

 

[Est.1974]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

In the Commanders behind the scenes video put out by the team, you can see them debating for a sec Dotson or Green.  No rumor -- it was a rare window into seeing a draft debate as a fact.  It wasn't much of a debate, one in the room if i recall maybe it was Hurney said Green, Rivera goes Dotson.

 

I think at that stage both Mayhew and Hurney referred to Green when the Texans picked him. Rivera then said, let’s go Dotson.

[CapsSkins]

1 minute ago, Est.1974 said:

I think at that stage both Mayhew and Hurney referred to Green when the Texans picked him. Rivera then said, let’s go Dotson.

 

Correct. Here's the vid, pretty cool:

 

 

[justice98]

We ran Philly into getting Suh.  lol

[CapsSkins]

6 minutes ago, justice98 said:

We ran Philly into getting Suh.  lol

Philly knows we just published the blueprint for how to beat them on prime time national television. Honestly good on them for not waiting to address their weaknesses.

[Riggo#44]

Now, lets just hope Suh destroys that locker room.

[Darrell Green Fan]

On 11/15/2022 at 10:55 PM, Renegade7 said:

 

 Defenses watch a lot of tape and see a lot of mobile QBs these days. 

 

He's not the type of freak athlete to get theirs on a regular basis, he does run when it makes sense and he believes he can keep himself from getting ko'd.  

 

He may say he plays every game like it might be his last, but he's been slowly transitioning to understanding that playing like that at this level could actually mean that because of all the freak athletes bigger and faster then him on defense trying to kill him every play. 

 

All the sudden his team needs him more then he needs to prove he belongs at this level, it's not playing scared its playing smart, something players like Griffin never figured out.

 

As for rollout, man, we do it so rarely I have to jog my memory to how they went. I've seen them go bad, and anyone can correct me on this, but he doesn't seem comfortable throwing on the run consistently, he already has accuracy issues with his feet planted. 

 

I'm not saying draw designed runs like he's Lamar Jackson.   But they could have him use his biggest asset more often, and he could take it upon himself to escape the pocket and run for 8 on 3rd and 5 more often. Other teams with a QB with this skill get more out of that skill than this team does. 

[Koolblue13]

16 hours ago, justice98 said:

We ran Philly into getting Suh.  lol

and Linvel Joseph. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Losing to our team seems to always prompt immediate action from our opponent the following week.  Typically of the coach/coordinator getting fired, or player(s) getting benched variety though.

 

I’d be lying if I said that I wasn’t jealous of the Eagles FO though.  They lose TOP 1:2 to 3 yards a pop and Taylor Heinicke, and they immediately called in additional troops to prevent it from happening ever again.

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Losing to our team seems to always prompt immediate action from our opponent the following week.  Typically of the coach/coordinator getting fired, or player(s) getting benched variety though.

 

I’d be lying if I said that I wasn’t jealous of the Eagles FO though.  They lose TOP 1:2 to 3 yards a pop and Taylor Heinicke, and they immediately called in additional troops to prevent it from happening ever again.

[Going Commando]

Meant to post this in this thread, but put it in another one by mistake:

 

What's up with Jordan Davis?  If he'd been out there on Monday, our plan wouldn't have worked.  You'd think a team with Fletcher Cox and Davis wouldn't have to make mid-season desperation DT signings.

 

Reason number 4,632 why I love DaRon Payne and why we can't afford to let him go is because he is the rare DT that never misses time.  Brutal position and the guy is just built for it.  We're never going to find an IDL with his durability again.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Meant to post this in this thread, but put it in another one by mistake:

 

What's up with Jordan Davis?  If he'd been out there on Monday, our plan wouldn't have worked.  You'd think a team with Fletcher Cox and Davis wouldn't have to make mid-season desperation DT signings.

 

Reason number 4,632 why I love DaRon Payne and why we can't afford to let him go is because he is the rare DT that never misses time.  Brutal position and the guy is just built for it.  We're never going to find an IDL with his durability again.

 

Payne's durability has been amazing.  Jonathan Allen, not bad too if I recall except for one season -- am too lazy to look it up.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

5 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

What's up with Jordan Davis?

IR with an ankle injury, and Eagles wasted no time bulking up in his absence after we decimated them on the ground.