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Broken #1QB. Now who should start?


SlobberknockerSkinsFan

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TH was the starting QB of a team that won 4 straight games, including wins against Tampa and on the road against a playoff team (Raiders).

 

He played  either above average or well in all those games.

 

This idea that defenses "figured" him out makes no sense since that winning streak happened midway through the season.

 

Again, all things being equal, Wentz is better.   Long term, I'd rather have Howell....Right now with this O-Line and Coordinator, I'd rather have TH.

 

 

 

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I am not sure why people still want to try and defend TH arm strength. Yes, if he squares his feet and truly drives he can put some zip on the ball. But he rarely does that and it’s not just because the line is poor. He actually had a decent line last year and had happy feet the last 6+ games. 

 

The problem with his arm is not just how far, it's what windows can he hit. So many times he threw to a guy that was open but the ball was so slow getting there the defender was able to make up the distance, easily. There is very little room for error in the NFL. 

 

So yea you can find a few clips of him zipping one in there. But the majority of the time - which is what matters the ball was slow to get there even if he made a good read. 

 

The book is written on TH. Let's turn the page and see what Howell has. We are likely to be picking QB in the 1st no matter what he does but it may mean the difference between trading up or not. 

Edited by goskins10
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I'm torn on who I think should be out there if Wince does miss some time...

 

My initial thought was, can't they just tape his ring finger to his middle finger and throw him back out there?

 

I'm in a weird spot where I want the team to win for the players sake, but I want Dan to lose.

 

Maybe Heinicke is the best option for both things to happen?

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2 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:


That didn't answer my question.  Where are they in this thread?  Should be easy to find since "the Hive" is so active on here.

Just look in any game day thread after Wentz’ first incompletion.

 

That, and I’m pretty sure TH is tomxxx’s (don’t want to be accused of a “call-out” violation) love child

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8 minutes ago, petey hodge said:


live fire?  With our OL and bad play calling… it’s gonna look like this

 

image.gif.71607c5822f1cb5a8df7b4378a5316c3.gif

 

Probably but until you pout him out there you don't really know. I mean what are you saving him for? If you don't play him now or at lesat some time this season you may as well release him. He will not get a better chance to actually show what he can do. 

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2 hours ago, goskins10 said:

What exactly is everyone who wants to keep Howell on the bench saving him for? It's very likely he is a career backup at best. But there is always that sliver of a chance he could be more. You cannot find that out with him riding pine. As far as if he is ready - there is nothing to suggest he is or he isn't. If he is, he should be given al lthe time they can possibly give him to earn the job - or at least a chance at #1 next season. If he is not, that will be evident very fast and gives you the answer to - do they need to draft a 1st rd QB next season. 

 

If the argument is draft a QB in the 1st rd no matter what I can at least see that argument. But you still need to see in live fire what Howell is capable of. Again, I am just not exactly sure of what people they are preserving by not playing him - and please save the "saving his life" line. He is an adult. He knows how to run. It's on him to stay alive 🙂 

 

Unfortunatly I guess we will see TH. Same frustration jsut more frenetic movement (if he will use his legs again) and less pushing the ball downfield. 

Not speaking for anyone else, but just to this general "you don't learn anything on the bench" line that always gets brought up in relation to young QBs. It's a line that gets thrown around. In fact, if you have mechanical issues, footwork issues, if you have a lot to learn on reading defenses, if you don't know how to run  pro-style offense, etc. there actually is a LOT that can be learned by being allowed to develop away from the field, and which you in fact can't learn if you are spending all your time getting ready to start a game that week. And a lot of bad habits are learned by playing before you're ready and a lot of young QBs lose confidence by playing before they are.

 

Is Howell ready to play now? I have no idea. But whether he has any chance to be something in the future or not, he shouldn't be played if he's not ready to.

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3 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Not speaking for anyone else, but just to this general "you don't learn anything on the bench" line that always gets brought up in relation to young QBs. It's a line that gets thrown around. In fact, if you have mechanical issues, footwork issues, if you have a lot to learn on reading defenses, if you don't know how to run  pro-style offense, etc. there actually is a LOT that can be learned by being allowed to develop away from the field, and which you in fact can't learn if you are spending all your time getting ready to start a game that week. And a lot of bad habits are learned by playing before you're ready and a lot of young QBs lose confidence by playing before they are.

 

Is Howell ready to play now? I have no idea. But whether he has any chance to be something in the future or not, he shouldn't be played if he's not ready to.

 

Fair enough I used the term loosly and probably poorly. My meaning was the team does not learn anything about the player and how he will handle NFL games until he plays. Aso the player will not learn himself how he will handle live NFL games. Yes, they can help him work on mechanics and learn plays, even identify some weaknesses from parctices, playing scout team QB and other drills. But they will not learn enough about him in live games until he actually plays. It was poorly said but that was my meaning.

 

As for losing confidence I see that a lot from people and disagree. Either he has the mental toughness or not. Throwing him in now or in a few months or even next year will not change that. He is either mentally capable or not.  

 

In the end it doesn't matter as it looks like Ron is playing TH. 

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9 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Fair enough I used the term loosly and probably poorly. My meaning was the team does not learn anything about the player and how he will handle NFL games until he plays. Aso the player will not learn himself how he will handle live NFL games. Yes, they can help him work on mechanics and learn plays, even identify some weaknesses from parctices, playing scout team QB and other drills. But they will not learn enough about him in live games until he actually plays. It was poorly said but that was my meaning.

 

As for losing confidence I see that a lot from people and disagree. Either he has the mental toughness or not. Throwing him in now or in a few months or even next year will not change that. He is either mentally capable or not.  

 

In the end it doesn't matter as it looks like Ron is playing TH. 

Not sure how that response makes any relevant sense to this situation. If he needs developmental work, then he needs it. That means he shouldn't play. Suggesting he should be played anyway to "see what they have" is frankly nonsensical in that case. 

 

And the idea that professional athletes don't have confidence issues, or thinking you can cure them by screaming "Just be TOUGH" at them is pretty comical. 

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Part of me does kind of wonder if Howell is less ready because of.....Howell, or if it just a matter of him being 3rd on the depth chart the entire time so he is not being put into position to be ready to play in games.  I only ask that because we see rookie QB's playing from Day 1 on all sorts of teams who's caliber range the spectrum of good and bad teams.  It also seems like a lot of coordinators in the modern NFL are much better at coaching a rookie QB along early in their career than a few decades ago.  It also doesn't hurt that so many rules have changed to protect the QB and produce more offense that it just isn't the same scenario where a rookie has to sit with a clipboard for 2-3 seasons first.  Of course if you end up in a situation where you have a good starting QB and a mid-late round pick starts turning heads in practice, then you deal with that situation as it plays out, but with the kind of game Heinicke brings to the table, I don't see why a rookie QB with a similar skill set (plus an NFL arm) couldn't replicate a similar game plan and results.  

 

You would still likely go run-heavy, time of possession, defense oriented game planning, but Howell could get some more looks at downfield passing mixed in when the situation is right.

 

This isn't me arguing that Howell should be starting right now, just more the fact that I believe the "oh no he will get Patrick Ramsey'd" fear among a lot of fans isn't warranted because it isn't really the same situation nor the same coaches looking out for him from the sidelines. A lot of what got Ramsey Ramsey'd specifically had to do with the kind of college offense Spurrier was running and making zero adjustments to a rookie being in the game who didn't have the experience yet. 

 

I will ask, let's say the nightmare scenario happens and Heinicke goes 0-4 or 0-5, then Wentz is healthy and ready to come back.  Do you put Wentz back in if the team's record is 2-8, 2-9ish or at that point do you see if Howell is ready to add something to the offense?

Edited by NoCalMike
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16 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Not sure how that response makes any relevant sense to this situation. If he needs developmental work, then he needs it. That means he shouldn't play. Suggesting he should be played anyway to "see what they have" is frankly nonsensical in that case. 

 

And the idea that professional athletes don't have confidence issues, or thinking you can cure them by screaming "Just be TOUGH" at them is pretty comical. 


if he is capable he will figure it out. Yea he will make some mistakes but he will learn from them or not.  As for being mentally tough either he is or he is not. Nothing comical just facts.  But to each thief own.  

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2 hours ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Lmaooo one of the comments: “3-1 minimum”. Yeah, as if rodgers isn’t going to throw for 4 TDs on us and 400 yards 😂 even Kirk is going to destroy us. And then there’s Philly…..

 

1-3 at best, 0-4 at worst. 

 

Last year the Packers beat us 24-10.  This year they don't have Davante Adams and their OL seems pretty weak based on what the Jets did to them.

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A lot of replies in this thread seem to be based on feels and/or favouritism.

 

If you take a step back there's only one logical answer. So, if you want to win your next game and your starter is unavailable for whatever reason, do you start your second string or your third string player at that position?

 

If they go with the third string player then what is the point of even having depth charts?

 

Edited by London Kev
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8 hours ago, Peregrine said:

Because playing Howell is punting the season, regardless of your youtube crush on him.

 

Playing Heinicke is punting the season at least as much.

 

Have we forgotten how bad TH was down the stretch last year? There's no reason to believe Heinicke would be able to do any more than Wentz has, but he also lacks the arm that Wentz has to even be a threat to push the ball down the field.

 

At least with Howell there's a purpose to putting him in: you can see how he fares and evaluate him. 

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How far some one can throw a ball isnt the measure of arm strength. 

1 hour ago, skinfan2k said:

our fans sure love winning 7 games.

Dude its maddening. They love feeling better random Monday mornings in october november than a better monday morning feeling in February. Foresight that doesnt extend their noses 

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11 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Dude its maddening. They love feeling better random Monday mornings in october november than a better monday morning feeling in February. Foresight that doesnt extend their noses 

It’s Snyderitis.

 

The same folks will be going on and on about how all the coaches are trash, roster is trash, need to blow everything up, etc.

 

Yet still be trying to envision winning games with TH and doing playoff math.  It’s bizarre, but that’s what Snyder has given us for 23 years.

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