New OC Thread (Welcome Aboard Eric Bieniemy!)

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

6 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I mean nobody else has even made an offer for Flowers either. Lets not make him out like he's prime Russ Grimm or something.

That's true but he was very solid for us. Was probably all pro level compared to Norhell. 

[DJHJR86]

Dotson and Thomas are practicing today it seems.  Good news.

[ThomasRoane]

From the Washington Post article on Howell.

Commanders' Taylor Heinicke, not Sam Howell, to start in place of Carson Wentz - The Washington Post

 

Quote

The key to his growth, he said, is footwork. In college, Howell played in an Air Raid offense and was always in shotgun, always taking a three-step drop.

 

“I was usually standing there, waiting for things to get open,” he said.

In Washington, the number of steps in a drop vary, and the team is strict about getting them right because the play concepts are tied to the timing of the quarterback’s feet. For example, Howell said, on a dig route, he should take a five-step drop, a hitch step forward and throw. But for a drag route, it’s a five-step drop and two hitches.

 

I don't get the need for a hitch step on a dig route.  That's generally a 10 yard in route.  Then two hitches for a drag route?  That's just a shallow (3 yds) or semi-shallow (5yds) route.  I think a QB should hit his back foot.  Make sure they're balanced and throw.  The only need for a hitch route should be on a deep ball; if you don't have great arm strength.  Maybe Howell is referring to the idea of getting your shoulder in line with where you plan to throw? To make sure you're not throwing across your body; especially for a righty throwing left.  That statement just seems really odd to me.  I wouldn't want my QB giving the defense any indication that the ball is coming out.  That would be kinda like patting the ball before you throw.  Why?!?!  Just throw it!

[Going Commando]

On 10/19/2022 at 2:52 PM, ThomasRoane said:

From the Washington Post article on Howell.

Commanders' Taylor Heinicke, not Sam Howell, to start in place of Carson Wentz - The Washington Post

 

 

I don't get the need for a hitch step on a dig route.  That's generally a 10 yard in route.  Then two hitches for a drag route?  That's just a shallow (3 yds) or semi-shallow (5yds) route.  I think a QB should hit his back foot.  Make sure they're balanced and throw.  The only need for a hitch route should be on a deep ball; if you don't have great arm strength.  Maybe Howell is referring to the idea of getting your shoulder in line with where you plan to throw? To make sure you're not throwing across your body; especially for a righty throwing left.  That statement just seems really odd to me.  I wouldn't want my QB giving the defense any indication that the ball is coming out.  That would be kinda like patting the ball before you throw.  Why?!?!  Just throw it!

 

Sounds weird to me too.  I can't see a reason for hitching on shallow crossers unless you're trying to buy time for the receivers, but they should be getting off the line and hitting the designed throwing lane by the end of the drop.   Maybe trying to buy extra time for the QB to locate everyone in the middle zones?  The route concepts should be set up to clear a lot of the traffic out of the middle zones though, especially with everyone going two high now.

[Going Commando]

The more I think about that footwork on the shallow crossing routes, the more it bothers me.  Take it in conjunction with Fitzpatrick's comments about Turner's offense being a plug and play system that doesn't adjust for personnel, and it just paints a picture of a really bad coach and offensive coordinator.  He's got his QBs holding the ball forever and hitching into the middle of the pressure on what should be his easiest throws, nevermind that the interior of the OL has been ruined by personnel losses and injuries.  This sounds like a really difficult system to quarterback and pass protect in, and a coach who was truly at the top of his field would be intuiting what will and won't work based on his personnel and constantly making adjustments and throwing out things that he can't get blocked or execute properly.  A great coach should be making things as easy on his players as possible, especially when they are struggling or don't have the background to execute your dumb system.

[Warhead36]

11 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 A great coach should be making things as easy on his players as possible, especially when they are struggling or don't have the background to execute your dumb system.

Exactly. We were truly blessed with Shanahan and McVay. They maximized the personnel they had. I mean when we drafted RG3 it was Shanahan who built an entirely new offense from the ground up. 

 

I'm done with Turner.

[NoCalMike]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Exactly. We were truly blessed with Shanahan and McVay. They maximized the personnel they had. I mean when we drafted RG3 it was Shanahan who built an entirely new offense from the ground up. 

 

I'm done with Turner.

 

Yeah and when Shanahan drafted Trey Lance, you just know why he took him over some of the QB's ranked higher, because of the specific skillset he has had success crafting a passing game around before. 

[Going Commando]

16 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

 

Yeah and when Shanahan drafted Trey Lance, you just know why he took him over some of the QB's ranked higher, because of the specific skillset he has had success crafting a passing game around before. 

 

I'm not so sure, because he had a lot of success with Matt Ryan too.  That's pretty much the opposite type of QB from RGIII.  He can adapt to any QB because he's such a strong coach and is so well versed in multiple schemes.

[DWinzit]

39 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I'm not so sure, because he had a lot of success with Matt Ryan too.  That's pretty much the opposite type of QB from RGIII.  He can adapt to any QB because he's such a strong coach and is so well versed in multiple schemes.

Great point and why he and his dad were high on Cousins in the RG3 draft.  

Wonder how he would have handled a RB like Gibson. I was so excited when he was drafted. I find myself fairly disappointed in his usage with Turner

[RandyHolt]

13 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Great point and why he and his dad were high on Cousins in the RG3 draft.  

Wonder how he would have handled a RB like Gibson. I was so excited when he was drafted. I find myself fairly disappointed in his usage with Turner

I am too. I envisioned dynamic unpredictable 2 back usage. Yes the now unthinkable to Turner - Gibson and McKissic on the field at the same time. Instead it was always one or the other. I wanted both in the backfield and one motion out wide... sigh. I want to see both thrown wheels - I love that play but it seems absent while those 2 seem perfect for it. Or, dual wheels. Who wouldn't want to see that play tried?

 

With WR3/4 ailing out maybe we will see Gibson used more in the passing game this week.

Edited October 22, 2022 by RandyHolt

[moondog]

Turner is a clown and must go. With all the speed and versatility on this offense (Gibson, jd, Samuel) it should be one of the most capable of overcoming a weak pass protecting line. These guys are easy chess pieces to create mismatches all over the field for quick and easy completions. 
 

Any idiot fan can tell that Samuel should be in motion all over the field and getting the ball in various ways. As should the other two. Motioning Samuel into the backfield for Carries/screens/decoy etc with one of the RB’s back there to lead block. Getting the RB’s matched up with LB’s. This is third grade level, I have better toys then you so I’m going to find ways to get them the ball in space. The fact that this, even as just a general concept, seems completely lost on turner is mind blowing. 
 

What’s even crazier is that actually seemed to be what we were doing week 1 against Jacksonville. And it worked. And everyone was excited. It’s like Turner needed an entire offseason to script one gameplan then completely forgot everything about it. 

[skinny21]

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-which-nfl-offenses-use-the-most-unique-schemes

 

Found this interesting, even if I’m not entirely sure what I’m looking at, lol.  Of course the major step back in oline play (unless they get their **** together), addition of Robinson, and (potential) change in how DCs scheme against TH might throw this out of whack.

 

 

[KDawg]

So Turner is having our QBs hitch on quick hitters, calling unnecessary 7-step concepts at times with a shoddy interior OL and purposely not throwing quick concepts?

 

hitches and a shallow should be hitting that three and releasing.

 

This is the epitome of setting them up to fail. But maybe the article is a misrepresentation? 

Edited October 22, 2022 by KDawg

[NoCalMike]

3 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

I'm not so sure, because he had a lot of success with Matt Ryan too.  That's pretty much the opposite type of QB from RGIII.  He can adapt to any QB because he's such a strong coach and is so well versed in multiple schemes.

 

True but Matt Ryan was inherited not selected, by Kyle Shanahan.

[SkinsFTW]

11 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

 

True but Matt Ryan was inherited not selected, by Kyle Shanahan.

 

Actually, KS went there knowing exactly who the QB was going to be. He did choose to go to Atlanta. 

[FootballZombie]

Gibby is avg 5.5 yards a carry since B-Rob has been inserted in the lineup.

 

Amazing what happens when he is both not forced to depth charge his ypc by doing short yardage work and gets to remain fresh.

[TradeTheBeal!]

[wit33]

Seems like running the football is making a push to reclaim some territory this season. Many teams up top have a run first approach. Interesting. 
 

Not the two elite, Bills and Chiefs lol

[CTskin]

I’ll never forget fitzpatricks comments before week 1 last year regarding how tough to digest Turners playbook was and it was unlike anything he’d seen. Terrible paraphrasing, but for a Harvard grad to be saying something along those lines made me worry.

 

I was happy to get wentz, but fitzs comment stuck with me and tempered my expectations.

 

add on all of the aspects that u more knowledgeable football fanatics are saying about dropbacks and hitches and I find it impossible to believe there’s any success to be had with turner.

 

I’ve been calling for him to be fired since his first offseason. He shows flashes and uses guys correctly from time to time, but he’s had long enough to turn the corner.

[RandyHolt]

On 10/26/2022 at 9:43 PM, CTskin said:

I’ll never forget fitzpatricks comments before week 1 last year regarding how tough to digest Turners playbook was and it was unlike anything he’d seen. Terrible paraphrasing, but for a Harvard grad to be saying something along those lines made me worry.

 

I was happy to get wentz, but fitzs comment stuck with me and tempered my expectations.

 

add on all of the aspects that u more knowledgeable football fanatics are saying about dropbacks and hitches and I find it impossible to believe there’s any success to be had with turner.

 

I’ve been calling for him to be fired since his first offseason. He shows flashes and uses guys correctly from time to time, but he’s had long enough to turn the corner.

I didn't know of Fitz's comments before now.  I was still irritated upon learning the audibles are not an option in Turners complex playbook despite being such a simple concept. I think it's absence is more to further control the ego of a QB than anything; it seems OCs may have bigger ego's than their QB. There should be cliff notes for every playbook.

 

Your last sentence really hits home. We see flashes of using someone to their strengths and then poof its gone.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

On 10/26/2022 at 9:43 PM, CTskin said:

 

I’ll never forget fitzpatricks comments before week 1 last year regarding how tough to digest Turners playbook was and it was unlike anything he’d seen. Terrible paraphrasing, but for a Harvard grad to be saying something along those lines made me worry.

 

He made some less than flattering remarks on the pre game show prior to the Bears game as well. 
 

Couple that with Wentz remark about his head in a blender and things get a bit more clear.

 

It would seem the only moderately successful way to run this offense is nickel and dime, dink and dunk style.  

[Redwards]

On 10/26/2022 at 4:22 AM, FootballZombie said:

Gibby is avg 5.5 yards a carry since B-Rob has been inserted in the lineup.

 

Amazing what happens when he is both not forced to depth charge his ypc by doing short yardage work and gets to remain fresh.

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

On 10/26/2022 at 9:43 PM, CTskin said:

I’ll never forget fitzpatricks comments before week 1 last year regarding how tough to digest Turners playbook was and it was unlike anything he’d seen. Terrible paraphrasing, but for a Harvard grad to be saying something along those lines made me worry.

 

I was happy to get wentz, but fitzs comment stuck with me and tempered my expectations.

 

add on all of the aspects that u more knowledgeable football fanatics are saying about dropbacks and hitches and I find it impossible to believe there’s any success to be had with turner.

 

I’ve been calling for him to be fired since his first offseason. He shows flashes and uses guys correctly from time to time, but he’s had long enough to turn the corner.

Reminds me of when the Steelers hired Joe Walton and his 400-page playbook back in 1990. It didn't fit the existing personnel and they lost 2 games solely because players were confused on the field and botched potential game winning plays. 

 

Guess what? They missed the playoffs by half a game...

 

Football shouldn't require a PhD just to understand the playbook. 

Edited October 28, 2022 by BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen

[JesseNeckred]

I stand by the Scott "cute" Turner moniker

[Warhead36]

While Turner is clearly limited in what he can do with Heinicke at QB, he also has too many WTF moments when it comes to playcalling. 

 

The 3rd and 2 draw into 4th and 1 bootleg pass was just atrocious. And of course the random double flea flicker crap when we were inside, what, the 20 yard line? QB draw on 3rd and 9. The list goes on and on.

 

The Heinicke and Turner combination are basically the worst of both worlds.