RandyHolt Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 (edited) On 11/30/2022 at 8:45 AM, Conn said: The other thing is that Turner has the personality of a doorknob. He’s got no charisma at all. You need to benefit from Kyle Shanahan-level genius and nepotism to overcome that, and Turner doesn’t even have a good resume to fake you into thinking it’s worth the risk. Nothing about the guy screams leader or HC. Nothing even whispers it. He’s like a poor man’s version of all the coaches’ sons who get promoted in this league. He's Nerdal Turner. Anyone around the league enamored with him is because of his last name. Its a shame his playbook is so complex. It almost ensures a young QB will need an OC change to develop here. We talk about is Howell ready - and we seem to overlook the playbook. Sure we can assume Turner purges it for a new QB but assumption is the mother of all ****ups. Maybe a beatnik lurking here can catch Howell after the season and ask about the playbook but frame it knowing its very difficult to learn or reference Fitz saying it was to get him to fess up. Edited December 3, 2022 by RandyHolt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWinzit Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 Turners conservative play calling late in games continues to infuriate me and I feel cost the team opportunities to win. Yeah yeah, I know, the OL had injuries and was protecting very poorly along with TH making some horrible decisions but the calls were not good. They have a big playbook, use it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhd24 Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 1 minute ago, DWinzit said: Turners conservative play calling late in games continues to infuriate me and I feel cost the team opportunities to win. Yeah yeah, I know, the OL had injuries and was protecting very poorly along with TH making some horrible decisions but the calls were not good. They have a big playbook, use it He schemed a wide open TD that Taylor missed in the opening drive. After Taylor throws multiple almost INTs, they had to run the ball because TH wasn't doing anything out there. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 I'm not sure what Turner could have done differently. We can't call deep shots with two 3rd stringers on the OL. We literally couldn't protect at all, Thibodeaux came in UNBLOCKED on our last offensive drive. We ran the ball twice when we only needed about 5 yards for a FG try and lost yards both times. I don't put that on Turner. Nobody can turn Nick Martin into Jeff Bostic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeenzfan Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 44 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: I'm not sure what Turner could have done differently. We can't call deep shots with two 3rd stringers on the OL. We literally couldn't protect at all, Thibodeaux came in UNBLOCKED on our last offensive drive. We ran the ball twice when we only needed about 5 yards for a FG try and lost yards both times. I don't put that on Turner. Nobody can turn Nick Martin into Jeff Bostic. It would have been nice to come up with something creative like a RPO or something. Everyone in the world knew they were going to run the ball there so Giants sold out on those two plays. A decent play there and we could be kicking the winning field goal. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 49 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: I'm not sure what Turner could have done differently. We can't call deep shots with two 3rd stringers on the OL. We literally couldn't protect at all, Thibodeaux came in UNBLOCKED on our last offensive drive. We ran the ball twice when we only needed about 5 yards for a FG try and lost yards both times. I don't put that on Turner. Nobody can turn Nick Martin into Jeff Bostic. All week beat reporters and analysts said "quick outs and play action boots are what the Giants struggle with". What does Scott do? Bunched formation, invite the D to stack the box and run right into it over and over. Sometimes it worked. Sometimes it didn't. When they needed one more first down for an OT FG attempt the Giants bet he wouldn't run a sweep or quick in/out. That they'd run defend and if it was a pass, it wasn't fast. They were right. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 10 minutes ago, skeenzfan said: It would have been nice to come up with something creative like a RPO or something. Everyone in the world knew they were going to run the ball there so Giants sold out on those two plays. A decent play there and we could be kicking the winning field goal. There is a misconception with Heinicke. He's not actually fast. He's got some quickness and elusiveness, but RPO QBs need to have good acceleration and speed to beat defenders to the edge. Heinicke isn't that kind of QB. He's also small and more vulnerable to injury anytime he keeps it. I like to bash Turner's lack of creativity as much as anyone, but at the end of the game it was obvious we were hanging on by a thread and just trying to scrape by. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capsman Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 40 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: There is a misconception with Heinicke. He's not actually fast. He's got some quickness and elusiveness, but RPO QBs need to have good acceleration and speed to beat defenders to the edge. Heinicke isn't that kind of QB. He's also small and more vulnerable to injury anytime he keeps it. I like to bash Turner's lack of creativity as much as anyone, but at the end of the game it was obvious we were hanging on by a thread and just trying to scrape by. He has more than enough speed to run a naked bootleg. Especially when the Giants were selling out in OT, that play would have gone for a lot of yards. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhd24 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 4 minutes ago, Capsman said: He has more than enough speed to run a naked bootleg. Especially when the Giants were selling out in OT, that play would have gone for a lot of yards. Except he never runs. Even when he has room, he never does it now unless he has no other options Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWinzit Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 49 minutes ago, mhd24 said: Except he never runs. Even when he has room, he never does it now unless he has no other options Then that would have been a perfect play to call 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Capsman said: He has more than enough speed to run a naked bootleg. Especially when the Giants were selling out in OT, that play would have gone for a lot of yards. Everytime Heinicke rolled out today he had a defender in his face. I'm not sure I'd want to run the risk of having our QB turn his back to the defense at that point in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4eva Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 I cannot wait until Turner is gone. He is uniquely awful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoVaSkins21 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 Turner has no situational awareness. He goes with the pass on consecutive plays after getting down to Giants 5 yard line. Problem is that Rivera is loyal to a fault and will never let him go. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4eva Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 1 minute ago, NoVaSkins21 said: Turner has no situational awareness. He goes with the pass on consecutive plays after getting down to Giants 5 yard line. Problem is that Rivera is loyal to a fault and will never let him go. He has zero. Zero. And absolutely no ability to change tempos or pick up on the pulse of a game. He's really awful. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 (edited) There were some easy runs for RPO. Giants were crashing hard. Heinicke could have jogged for 5yd and gone out of bounds. I think Turner called a good game. He is doing the best he can based on the QB and pass blocking. Edited December 5, 2022 by Leonard Washington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 Giants were like bottom 5 of the league against playaction pass. We didn't seem to do much of it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoVaSkins21 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 Turner also didn't stretch the field aide from a few passes to Terry and Jahan. No vertical passing game. A lot of screens today. Don't know why he didn't want to go after the inexperienced Giants DBs more 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 1 minute ago, NoVaSkins21 said: Turner also didn't stretch the field aide from a few passes to Terry and Jahan. No vertical passing game. A lot of screens today. Don't know why he didn't want to go after the inexperienced Giants DBs more We couldn't pass protect The only playcall I really didn't like was the one that resulted in a sack before the missed FG. It was 3rd and 13 and we couldn't protect for crap. The smart play there is to either run it or do some kinda screen/short pass and take the easy 5-7 yards they'll give us and kick what would then be an under 40 yard FG. Instead we get sacked, resulting in a 52 yard try that we missed. If we get a made FG there we win the game in regulation 23-20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Warhead36 said: We couldn't pass protect And we can’t really stretch the field vertically with Heinicke short of a play where he closes his eyes and launches it (I mean this literally) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 There is zero reason why this team should not be signing Keith Ismael next week off the SF practice squad. Larsen is clearly a better player than him but Ismael is a much better player than Nick Martin At the very least, assuming one of Turner or Cosmi get healthy, Schweitzer needs to start at center over Martin 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoVaSkins21 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Warhead36 said: We couldn't pass protect It wasn't a sack parade like the 1st Philly game. Try running the ball more off tackle to offset the pass rush. Turner just sucks at scheming up a game plan consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJL Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 7 minutes ago, method man said: There is zero reason why this team should not be signing Keith Ismael next week off the SF practice squad. Larsen is clearly a better player than him but Ismael is a much better player than Nick Martin At the very least, assuming one of Turner or Cosmi get healthy, Schweitzer needs to start at center over Martin that would be a very smart thing to do. Hell, I'd cut Martin, sign Ismael and start Schweitzer at center with Charles and Paul or hell one of our practice squad guys fight for RG. I really thought Martin would be released when Schweitzer was activated 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoVaSkins21 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 15 minutes ago, method man said: There is zero reason why this team should not be signing Keith Ismael next week off the SF practice squad. Larsen is clearly a better player than him but Ismael is a much better player than Nick Martin At the very least, assuming one of Turner or Cosmi get healthy, Schweitzer needs to start at center over Martin I don't know how they let Ismael get away. IIRC, he was a 6th round pick back in 2020 and was really good for this team when the injury bug hit this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 14 minutes ago, NoVaSkins21 said: It wasn't a sack parade like the 1st Philly game. Try running the ball more off tackle to offset the pass rush. Turner just sucks at scheming up a game plan consistently. No but that's because Heinicke can move around some. There was consistent pass pressure all game long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 Just now, NoVaSkins21 said: I don't know how they let Ismael get away. IIRC, he was a 6th round pick back in 2020 and was really good for this team when the injury bug hit this team. It's probably because Ismael is a Bay Area native and decided that he would rather give it a shot on the SF PS vs be the odd man out again here. Given this stage in the season, I don't see why he would pass up active roster game checks the rest of the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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