Alec Baldwin charged with Involuntary Manslaughter in The Death of Halyna Hutchins

[dfitzo53]

4 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said:

I guess. Im not defending Alec Baldwin, who I think is an asshole, but I can imagine him viewing a gun as a prop because, to him, that’s all it is. He’s probably pointed movie set guns at more people than a Navy SEAL. Why the hell would a movie set gun ever have a live round in it?  It bogles my mind that somewhere along the line, someone even loaded the gun in the first place.  

I totally get what you're saying. 

 

I'm just saying if you're going to use real guns on set, it takes five minutes to teach someone how to check the chamber.

 

In the case of this particular movie, it sounds like there had been so many corners cut already anyway. Multiple people walked off the job because of how unsafe it was.

 

It's just a shame no matter how you slice it.

[Skinsfan1311]

16 hours ago, The Evil Genius said:

Fwiw I know personally that I wouldn't check if I was actor handed the gun from the AD or prop master or armorer. Guns are not my area of expertise and I'd have no idea what to check. I would expect that the sme on set would do their job. 

 

Their will be civil liabilities from this. There has to be. I doubt criminal ones occur though. 

 

 

This is the type of mentality that got that woman killed.   If you're going to be handling weapons you must be trained to handle them safely.  Never, ever, ever blindly trust anyone who hands you a weapon and tells you that "it's safe."  Checking the weapon to see if it's loaded is a basic safety tenet.   Treat every firearm as if it's loaded.  It's obvious that non one involved had any training or, if they did, it was ignored.   

16 hours ago, Llevron said:

 

Me too. But I feel like a good prop manager would probably tell you to check those things just to teach and avoid situations like this. 

Again, gun safety 101.  Check to make sure that gun is no loaded, regardless. 

16 hours ago, dfitzo53 said:

If an actor is going to be handling an actual firearm (not a prop) they should receive and be expected the follow the same training as anyone else.

Amen!

[The Evil Genius]

That woman has a name. It's even in the title of the thread. 🙂

 

And yes, I expect if I'm handed a prop gun that has been cleared by the armorer/props master/AD that I would not have to clear it also. Especially if I've made hundreds of movies without a gun accidentally discharging. But again, I don't get guns. Never have. 

 

As an aside, I suspect live rounds (including blanks) will be phased out of tv/movie filming very soon. Post production can add most of the effects and actors can be taught how to mimic recoil properly.  

[Chachie]

There has been some word getting out that some members of the crew were spending off-hours with the guns, shooting live rounds in the desert at cans, bottles, etc. In the industry this is referred to as "plinking." 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Chachie

[Destino]

2 hours ago, Chachie said:

There has been some word getting out that some members of the crew were spending off-hours with the guns, shooting live rounds in the desert at cans, bottles, etc. In the industry this is referred to as "plinking." 

Not just in the industry, plinking is a common term.

 

They definitely shouldn’t have been loading live ammo into props for fun, that’s just begging for trouble.  Probably shouldn’t have any live ammo on set at all. 

[tshile]

4 hours ago, The Evil Genius said:

And yes, I expect if I'm handed a prop gun that has been cleared by the armorer/props master/AD that I would not have to clear it also

That’s because you lack basic gun safety training

 

which is the point being made

 

4 hours ago, The Evil Genius said:

As an aside, I suspect live rounds (including blanks) will be phased out of tv/movie filming very soon. Post production can add most of the effects and actors can be taught how to mimic recoil properly.  

Yeah they’re already talking about that. And it makes sense - they have the ability to create the same result post production. 
 

but… as an aside… it’s kind of funny that the result is to ban guns instead of enforcing basic safety 😂 it’s a trend

[The Evil Genius]

I am all for mandatory gun safety training. For all gun owners. Make it annual and include testing and were on the same page. 😁

[The Evil Genius]

Ugh. What a **** show.

 

 

[DCSaints_fan]

23 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said:

LOL, nobody is required to have training in this country to have a gun. The NRA would flip its ****. 

Depending on what your standard is for "training", you're wrong about - depending on the state.  California for instance is fairly stringent, but even then it is only written and not in-person, last I checked. 

[PleaseBlitz]

14 minutes ago, DCSaints_fan said:

Depending on what your standard is for "training", you're wrong about - depending on the state.  California for instance is fairly stringent, but even then it is only written and not in-person, last I checked. 

 

Yea, my standard is higher than the equivalent of a driver's exam.  I am typing this while I am driving.

[Destino]

3 hours ago, The Evil Genius said:

I am all for mandatory gun safety training. For all gun owners. Make it annual and include testing and were on the same page. 😁

I’ve taken a gun safety course, and it was underwhelming.  It was the one required to apply for concealed carry in Va, or at least it was at the time.  They covered the bases but it was too brief and 90% of the time was spent shooting at targets. I’m entirely in support of gun safety courses being required for permits.  Though I’d expand them to include more class room time that covers most common accidents and ways to avoiding falling victim of them.  
 

That said, it’s unlikely actors are going to load their own magazines and some scenes are going to require they aim their props at people or cameras (and the folks standing behind them).  That knocks out the first two rules of safe handling of firearms (check to verify it’s truly unloaded, and never point it at anyone you don’t mean to kill).  So the best rule would be probably be absolutely no live ammo on set.  If any is found, all props should be unloaded entirely and checked and all live ammo searched out and removed.  
 

Even with all that I’d probably still check any gun handed to me.  My father used to tell me “the devil loads unloaded guns.”  Silly saying but it stuck in my head, and I never trust that any gun is unloaded that I haven’t personally checked recently.  

[HOF44]

I used to shoot in IPSEC pistol combinations in my 20’s. But hadn’t really touched a gun for over 20 years. So when I decided to get a concealed permit found s course that was 2 days 4 hours each with a range hour at the end.  Was pretty good.  Brought in cops and a lawyer and went ove lots of situations.  But I could have just done an online thing and been done with it. You get what you pay for. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I've not given this too much thought past what I'm about to type. 

 

It was tragic and unnecessary.  A  husband lost a wife, kids lost a mom.  It's incredibly sad.  

 

Nothing can approach the accident on the sadness scale, but a notch or two below is the smugness/outright glee that people are exhibiting that it was Alec Baldwin that pulled the trigger.  I don't really have much of an opinion about him one way or another but how ****ing disgusting is it that we've come to this point in our society where some people outwardly celebrate someone committing a terrible accident like that.  You can say what you want about him, you might not like his politics, his Donald Trump impression, whatever...but it's abhorrent to me that we're so ****ing divided right now that people are making fun of Alec Baldwin for this.  Can't anyone just put their bull**** aside for a second and recognized what happened?  Or does everyone have to automatically make everything about them and their viewpoints?  

 

I don't think Baldwin should face criminal charges, personally, but I can see why some would and you won't get too much of an argument from me.  Baldwin should have checked it, as @tshilesaid, because of basic gun safety training.  But I also get it, too...he's there to be an actor and there are people on set to do that for him.  I've been around guns all my life, I've had lots of safety training and even if I were in his shoes I'm not sure I'd check, because, you know, DO YOUR JOB.  So there's some conflicting thoughts there.

 

Like I said, I haven't given this too much thought past what I've already typed.  But those on the set, the people that were there for gun safety, that were there to make sure something like this DID NOT happen absolutely should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.  What in the name of sweet holy **** was Baldwin's gun and ANY gun being taken off that set to go plinking for?  What the hell were live rounds doing anywhere near the set?

 

 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Spaceman Spiff

[NoCalMike]

Even if Baldwin would have checked the gun, we are assuming he'd know what to look for and/or ask about that didn't seem right.  I am fine with from this point forward any actor in a movie that will be handling a weapon, needs to have some minimum level of safety training and usage, but as far as my understanding goes, that isn't required currently, so an actor would expect anything they are being handed is safe and ready to use.  

[tshile]

Just real quick. 
 

I don’t think his failure to check the gun is, for someone like me who sees it as an issue, the primary concern here. It’s just an aspect of it. There’s clearly other things that should(n’t) have happened that are way more important; that contributed more directly to the result. 
 

But this is an accidental shooting. We have a lot of them. Guns aren’t going anywhere anytime soon, and regardless of what any of us want the laws appear to be getting looser than stricter. Guns are in so many tv shows and movies, and the idea of “shooting” people is even more prevalent (like a kids cartoon where they have a magic power or use a laser, it’s shooting…) and isn’t going anywhere either. As tragic as this is, there are tons of accidental shootings a year, and many of them are children.

 

Have standardized and basic gun safety taught to everyone at a young age would help. It certainly can’t hurt (if someone has a link for how that increases likelihood to commit gun violence I’m all ears, I’m not familiar with that.) it could be agreed upon and done in the current political environment.

 

im struggling to see the big terribleness about this idea. 

 

we have a gun thread and I’m probably too far over the line already but I was just trying to sum up what my point was.

 

I think it’s worth thinking about. 

[tshile]

46 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

What in the name of sweet holy **** was Baldwin's gun and ANY gun being taken off that set to go plinking for?  What the hell were live rounds doing anywhere near the set?

I bet we’re gonna find out drugs and alcohol were involved in the plinking 

 

and someone maybe thought they put things back correctly, but drugs and alcohol…

[The Evil Genius]

 

 

 

[RansomthePasserby]

11 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

Even if Baldwin would have checked the gun, we are assuming he'd know what to look for and/or ask about that didn't seem right.  I am fine with from this point forward any actor in a movie that will be handling a weapon, needs to have some minimum level of safety training and usage, but as far as my understanding goes, that isn't required currently, so an actor would expect anything they are being handed is safe and ready to use.  

Ammunition is very easy to see in a revolver, it’s usually visible without opening the gun at all. You just have to look at the gun to know if it’s loaded.  The armorer or whoever was in charge of the gun had to be incompetent for this to happen. 

[LadySkinsFan]

This may sound ageist but that woman is too young to be the aromorer on any film set. Just looking at her pictures here makes it look her gun handling is unsafe. This is my opinion.

[TheGreatBuzz]

27 minutes ago, RansomthePasserby said:

Ammunition is very easy to see in a revolver, it’s usually visible without opening the gun at all. You just have to look at the gun to know if it’s loaded.  The armorer or whoever was in charge of the gun had to be incompetent for this to happen. 

It should be noted that you can’t see every chamber in a revolver without opening it up.

[Dan T.]

15 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

This may sound ageist but that woman is too young to be the aromorer on any film set. Just looking at her pictures here makes it look her gun handling is unsafe. This is my opinion.

 

She is the daughter of a long-time film armorer who was renowned in the field.  

[88Comrade2000]

Alec is going to serve time. Not for the accidentally shooting Halyna but for criminal negligence. As a producer on the film, they will get him for that.

[The Evil Genius]

15 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Alec is going to serve time. Not for the accidentally shooting Halyna but for criminal negligence. As a producer on the film, they will get him for that.

 

I suspect he is a producer in credits only and I doubt he serves time. 

[RansomthePasserby]

2 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

It should be noted that you can’t see every chamber in a revolver without opening it up.

With many of them you can clearly see if rounds are in all of the chambers by looking at the gun from the side (i.e., perpendicular to the sights/barrel). There’s a gap between the chambers and the body of the gun that allows the bullets to rotate into the action and expel gas when the gun is fired. Takes less than a second to check if you know what you’re looking for (and I’m assuming an armorer would).

[No Nonsense]

You mean to tell me that they can’t use real looking fake guns in movies?