Alec Baldwin charged with Involuntary Manslaughter in The Death of Halyna Hutchins

[88Comrade2000]

Have fun in prison Alec. 

[Hooper]

Pretty wild.

 

I work in film and TV. Spent a lot of time in New Mexico the past two years. Worked with a lot of crew and one cast member who worked on the Baldwin movie. Just a tragic story. 

 

Not in a million years, would I count on an actor to check to see if a gun is cold. And certainly no one on our crew would. 

 

Whole thing is sad. 

[PleaseBlitz]

I have doubts that Alec Baldwin can be held criminally liable for this.  Not sure what the exact wording of the underlying statutes are, but he most likely he either needs to have intended to do it, which I don't think anyone seriously thinks happened, or that he had to have had a duty of care which he violated, and I don't see how an actor is the one responsible for making sure a weapon is not loaded when the movie crew includes an armorer whose job is specifically that.  I think the criminally liable people are (1) whoever put an actual live round into a prop gun on a movie set and (2) the armorer if their job description was to ensure that all prop guns didn't contain live rounds. 

[tshile]

@PleaseBlitzits been alleged Baldwin created an unsafe set in many ways and over a period of time. 
 

if that is true does that change how you see it?

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, PleaseBlitz said:

I have doubts that Alec Baldwin can be held criminally liable for this.  Not sure what the exact wording of the underlying statutes are, but he most likely he either needs to have intended to do it, which I don't think anyone seriously thinks happened, or that he had to have had a duty of care which he violated, and I don't see how an actor is the one responsible for making sure a weapon is not loaded when the movie crew includes an armorer whose job is specifically that.  I think the criminally liable people are (1) whoever put an actual live round into a prop gun on a movie set and (2) the armorer if their job description was to ensure that all prop guns didn't contain live rounds. 

 

Only thing that gets him caught up in your scenario is that he is the producer, too. Which probably puts him in your category 1. As he would be responsible for the crews overall safety, right? 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Would they not have to prove criminal negligence on Baldwin’s part here?  Seems unlikely to me.

1 minute ago, tshile said:

@PleaseBlitzits been alleged Baldwin created an unsafe set in many ways and over a period of time. 
 

if that is true does that change how you see it?

 

Just now, TradeTheBeal! said:

Would they not have to prove criminal negligence on Baldwin’s part here?  Seems unlikely to me.

Ok, I could see the “unsafe set” angle playing out.

[PleaseBlitz]

1 minute ago, tshile said:

@PleaseBlitzits been alleged Baldwin created an unsafe set in many ways and over a period of time. 
 

if that is true does that change how you see it?

 

1 minute ago, Llevron said:

 

Only thing that gets him caught up in your scenario is that he is the producer, too. Which probably puts him in your category 1. As he would be responsible for the crews overall safety, right? 

 

If he is a producer, yes, that may change things.  I'm not clear on what producers are actually responsible for.  Someone clearly hired an armorer, but there may be facts that somehow indicate that Baldwin did things (or failed to do things) in his role as producer that led to the death.  It will be a very fact-specific argument. 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

Baldwin ultimately responsible for allowing live rounds on set if he is producer…

[tshile]

Early on in the story there were accusations of Baldwin creating an unsafe set with the way he set things up. One example I believe was most sets have 2 armorers to double check things - but he only hired 1, and one with little to no real experience, and that it was a cost savings thing. 
 

there were other accusations that basically all boiled down to - Baldwin made decisions that were based in saving money that were unsafe and not standard for movie industry. Another example was he cut out practice runs which usually allow for everyone to check things thoroughly, and went straight to filming, which created a constant “rush” around mentality for set staff to keep up. I believe there’s an accusation that unsafe practices were specifically brought up as a complaint at one point. 
 

of course, as the article points out, another allegation was staff were using the prop guns to fire real ammo near the set as target practice. And apparently investigators now say there’s no evidence of that. 
 

so it may be worthless to even discuss since some/many/all of the allegations may be completely false or at least have no evidence to support them. 
 

but my gut reaction wasn’t that he was charged for being the one holding the gun, but instead for his management decisions over the set 

Edited January 19, 2023 by tshile

[The Evil Genius]

I assume it's hard to separate Baldwin the unapologetic leftist from Baldwin the actor for a lot of people.

 

I also suspect Baldwin the producer was name only credits for this.

[PleaseBlitz]

2 hours ago, tshile said:

Early on in the story there were accusations of Baldwin creating an unsafe set with the way he set things up. One example I believe was most sets have 2 armorers to double check things - but he only hired 1, and one with little to no real experience, and that it was a cost savings thing. 
 

there were other accusations that basically all boiled down to - Baldwin made decisions that were based in saving money that were unsafe and not standard for movie industry. Another example was he cut out practice runs which usually allow for everyone to check things thoroughly, and went straight to filming, which created a constant “rush” around mentality for set staff to keep up. I believe there’s an accusation that unsafe practices were specifically brought up as a complaint at one point. 
 

of course, as the article points out, another allegation was staff were using the prop guns to fire real ammo near the set as target practice. And apparently investigators now say there’s no evidence of that. 
 

so it may be worthless to even discuss since some/many/all of the allegations may be completely false or at least have no evidence to support them. 
 

but my gut reaction wasn’t that he was charged for being the one holding the gun, but instead for his management decisions over the set 

 

This is a good and thoughtful post.  I'll just add that criminal statutes are (by design) much harder to get convictions on and they tend to have a series of specific elements that must be met for someone to be found guilty.

 

Much of your post will be important in the definitely forthcoming civil case, where things like "not doing what other reasonable people do in the same circumstance" are really important. 

[Hooper]

The AD taking a plea is rich.

 

The AD hands the actor the gun -- they are 100 times more responsible for knowing if a gun is cold or hot than the actor is. In most cases, the AD actually hands the actor the gun. 

 

 

 

 

[Fergasun]

I am mystified why not all the other "producers" were charged.  Part of me is not understanding how these responsibilities work.  Additionally, Haylna Hutchins' widower has settled with the production company.  Is there really a state interest in criminally punishing them for this?

[88Comrade2000]

Alec the producer is who's being charged.

[The Evil Genius]

 

[The Evil Genius]

 

[Cooked Crack]

Love to go on Hannity to let everyone know there's no politics at play

[Captain Wiggles]

Quote

"I'm a Republican. She's a Democrat. "

 

I smell a sitcom.

 

 

Oh and also bull****. 💩

[The Evil Genius]

Of course it's political. 

 

As an aside...I do wonder if Baldwin was given the producer label to get him to star in the movie and/or because he funded part of it. From what I can tell that's a regular occurrence on the smaller indie films.

[stoshuaj]

I’ll ask a simple, if probably naive/ignorant question:

 

why were there any live rounds on the set at all?  Do they at any point actually have a need to shoot something?

[The Evil Genius]

26 minutes ago, stoshuaj said:

I’ll ask a simple, if probably naive/ignorant question:

 

why were there any live rounds on the set at all?  Do they at any point actually have a need to shoot something?

 

No. From what I read yesterday, the live ammo likely came from the father of the armorer's prop company and somehow got mixed in with the prop ammo for the set.

 

 

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

I don’t see how he gets criminally charged. But I ain’t a lawyer. 

[PleaseBlitz]

7 hours ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

No. From what I read yesterday, the live ammo likely came from the father of the armorer's prop company and somehow got mixed in with the prop ammo for the set.

 

 

Somehow got mixed in. Lol. 
 

Father:  You know, I think ill just sprinkle in some real bullets into this pile of blanks my kid has for work, where they are responsible for making sure nobody gets shot. Why not?

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by PleaseBlitz

[justice98]

7 hours ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said:

I don’t see how he gets criminally charged. But I ain’t a lawyer. 

 

From everything I've seen and heard from lawyer types, this is a sketchy prosecution.  I've not seen one legal analyst say this wasn't an overreach.

 

Blaming actors because somebody else didn't do their job is dubious.  

 

On a side note, I'm amazed that they're continuing to make this pissant movie.  That's a bad look, IMO.  Take the L on this one. Won't matter how good the movie is or isn't, nobody's gonna care.  It'll always be known as the movie where Alex Baldwin killed somebody. 

 

I'm a huge Alex Baldwin fan as an actor, I think he's tremendous, but he really needs to lay low for a while and shut up.  Which he'll never be able to do.

Edited January 21, 2023 by justice98

[The Evil Genius]

2 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Somehow got mixed in. Lol. 
 

Father:  You know, I think ill just sprinkle in some real bullets into this pile of blanks my kid has for work, where they are responsible for making sure nobody gets shot. Why not?

 

 

This is what I was referencing. 

 

Quote

Longtime Hollywood armorer Thell Reed, the father of Gutierrez-Reed, reportedly told investigators that ammunition once in his possession "may match the ammunition found on the set of Rust," according to an affidavit for a search warrant executed last year.

 

The warrant authorized the search of an Albuquerque prop house, PDQ Arm and Prop LLC, owned by Seth Kenney. Kenney reportedly told detectives that he was hired to supply "Rust" with guns, as well as dummy rounds and blanks, according to the search warrant affidavit.

Reed told investigators that he worked with Kenney on a set several weeks before the "Rust" shooting occurred, and that Kenney allegedly took "an ammo can" containing live rounds back with him to New Mexico, according to the affidavit.

Kenney has denied providing live ammunition to the set.

"It's not a possibility that they came from PDQ or from myself personally," Kenney told ABC News days after the shooting. "When we send dummy rounds out, they get individually rattle tested before they get sent out."

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/da-reveal-charges-fatal-shooting-set-alec-baldwins/story?id=92278109

 

2 hours ago, justice98 said:

 

From everything I've seen and heard from lawyer types, this is a sketchy prosecution.  I've not seen one legal analyst say this wasn't an overreach.

 

Blaming actors because somebody else didn't do their job is dubious.  

 

On a side note, I'm amazed that they're continuing to make this pissant movie.  That's a bad look, IMO.  Take the L on this one. Won't matter how good the movie is or isn't, nobody's gonna care.  It'll always be known as the movie where Alex Baldwin killed somebody. 

 

I'm a huge Alex Baldwin fan as an actor, I think he's tremendous, but he really needs to lay low for a while and shut up.  Which he'll never be able to do.

 

Agreed but it sounds like the husband and family sued to get the movie made with the husband being added as executive producer.

 

Quote

In early October, Hutchins’ husband reached a settlement in his wrongful death lawsuit against the producers of “Rust,” including Baldwin.

Matthew Hutchins said in a statement that filming would resume in January and he would join the project as an executive producer as part of the agreement.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/alec-baldwin-charged-manslaughter-fatal-shooting-set-rust-d-says-rcna7189

Edited January 21, 2023 by The Evil Genius