The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[DWinzit]

^^^ It is so refreshing to see B and C and it is referring to the Commanders!

[Voice_of_Reason]

17 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

The only way we'll know anything in advance is if someone inside the FO leaks it. And so far they've been very good about letting no information at all get out from what I can tell. So I think there's a huge likelihood that we won't know anything until the pick is made.

I’m willing to bet there are 4 people in rge organization who will know the pick in advance of the draft: Peters, Newmark, Quinn and Harris.  
 

I doubt they confirm with any other scout or coach.  I’m sure they will have listened and taken input and had a lot of discussions. 
 

But I doubt they confirm the pick with any of them.  
 

So that means one of those 4 would have to tell somebody who would have to tell a reporter.

 

I just think that’s massively unlikely.  So we’ll hear when we hear at about 8:20 on draft night. 

[CommanderInTheRye]

Hoge is a jerk, a blowhard, and a loudmouthed bully m, by any standard measure, but fwiw he's offering his take on Maye.

 

Holding my nose and posting this, to go along with all the other speculative, axe to grind type, "in my professional opinion" pieces that will  become irrelevant afterthoughts about a half hour after the draft begins.

 

Anyways...

 

 

 

Merril Hoge sees Drake Maye as "the kind of player that will get you fired"

ProFootball Talk on NBC Sports

Sun, Apr 7, 2024, 6:48 PM

 

 

Beyond the first pick in the draft, it's still not clear how the quarterbacks will come off the board in 18 days. Some think North Carolina quarterback Drake Maye could go as high as No. 2. Some see that as a potential mistake.

 

Chris Simms has placed Maye at No. 6 in his quarterback rankings, behind Caleb Williams, Jayden Daniels, Bo Nix, Michael Penix Jr., and J.J. McCarthy.

 

Former ESPN analyst and NFL fullback Merril Hoge has similar views on Maye.

 

Via AthlonSports.com, Hoge recently said the Maye could cost whoever drafts him their job.

 

"Drake Maye is the kind of player that will get you fired," Hoge said in an interview on WCCO radio. "Especially if you draft him in the top five or top three, he’s going to get you fired."

 

Hoge compared Maye to 2021 rookie Malik Willis, who had been the betting favorite to be the first quarterback taken and who ended up falling to the Titans in round three. At best, he'll be No. 2 in Tennessee this year.

 

"Willis might be the only guy that I can think of that is as erratic as Maye," Hoge said. "I studied him for two years. . . . I watched every one of his games last year. . . . His last game against [North Carolina State] was probably the most embarrassing display I've seen from a guy who is supposed to be an elite franchise quarterback. . . . He's erratic. He's everywhere."

 

Hoge also has concerns about Maye's ability to use his athleticism in a way that will keep him healthy.

 

"People think his athleticism will translate but people want him to run and they will bust him up," Hoge said. "He is not athletic enough. If he doesn't get down and learn how to do that, he won't last until Week 10."

 

Quarterbacks tend to get overdrafted, especially with so many teams hoping to roll the dice and emerge with a top-five quarterback, sooner or later. Hoge's opinion is that it won't happen at all, and that the person responsible for taking him will be hearing, "See you later." Sooner than later.

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

Edited April 8 by CommanderInTheRye

[stoshuaj]

25 minutes ago, Number 44 said:

Terrifying?

Hyperbole train, hop on board.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Isn’t pro football talk Fake a news Florio’s outfit?  
 

Now Hodge is out there being an idiot?

 

Is this surprising? No.

 

idiots are idiot magnets. 
 

Pitty about Hodge though.  I used to like him a million years ago on ESPN. 

[Llevron]

7 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Isn’t pro football talk Fake a news Florio’s outfit?  
 

Now Hodge is out there being an idiot?

 

Is this surprising? No.

 

idiots are idiot magnets. 
 

Pitty about Hodge though.  I used to like him a million years ago on ESPN. 

PFT is 1000% Florio News. 
 

Hodge I’m pretty sure was the first guy openly against Maye and started the whole conversation about him not being the next sure thing. He is consistent if that means anything. He is awfully sure of himself though and that’s never a good sign. 

[redskinss]

8 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Isn’t pro football talk Fake a news Florio’s outfit?  
 

Now Hodge is out there being an idiot?

 

Is this surprising? No.

 

idiots are idiot magnets. 
 

Pitty about Hodge though.  I used to like him a million years ago on ESPN. 

 

Yes and that article is written by the biggest horses ass of pft mike florio.

 

He's a worthless bag of **** who lives to antagonize, that article isn't worthy of being toilet paper.

[actorguy1]

45 minutes ago, Number 44 said:

Terrifying?

For me. I could have said nerve racking.

[DogofWar1]

I like Maye but the recent Elway comparisons, let's cool it a tinge there.  Elway didn't have a cannon, he had a rail-gun.  Maye does a lot but we can't forget Elway's hypersonic launcher.  Maye isn't quite THAT strong.

[mistertim]

Merril Hoge is an entertainer now, not a football analyst. He comes in extra hot with the most acerbic and know-it-all takes, and it's basically just for clicks and views. Anyone who questions Maye's ability to stay healthy when running as a big concern and who then turns around and says he'd definitely take Daniels instead, is clearly just throwing **** at the wall and trying to turn heads his way.

[Warhead36]

Hoge had Mahomes as a 2nd rounder as well.

 

Former players only evaluate for the present. They dont look at projection of traits and player development. 

[mistertim]

29 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Hoge had Mahomes as a 2nd rounder as well.

 

Former players only evaluate for the present. They dont look at projection of traits and player development. 

 

He also hated Herbert and had Jacob Eason as his #2 QB right behind Burrow and Herbert as his #5. He actually said some of the same stuff about Herbert as he's saying about Maye.

[Anselmheifer]

22 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

He also hated Herbert and had Jacob Eason as his #2 QB right behind Burrow and Herbert as his #5. He actually said some of the same stuff about Herbert as he's saying about Maye.

At least he’s consistent. 
 

I keep trying to pump myself up for Jayden so I’m not disappointed.  That Florida game was amazingly impressive 

[SkinsFTW]

Merrill Hoge? LOL

 

 

Hoge: "Well, actually I do like [Brian] Brohm better than Aaron Rodgers."

 

McShay then doubles down with: "Honestly, I think Brian Brohm, two years from now, could be the starting quarterback of the Green Bay Packers. "

 

So much for these know it all clowns. Simms with Haskins and Fields, etc. acting like it's obvious to any one with eyeballs that he knows everything haha.

 

When in reality he's more on the Dan Snyder level where you just pick whoever you think he wouldn't.

[mistertim]

Just now, SkinsFTW said:

Merrill Hoge? LOL

 

 

Hoge: "Well, actually I do like [Brian] Brohm better than Aaron Rodgers."

 

McShay then doubles down with: "Honestly, I think Brian Brohm, two years from now, could be the starting quarterback of the Green Bay Packers. "

 

So much for these know it all clowns. Simms with Haskins and Fields, etc. acting like it's obvious to any one with eyeballs that he knows everything haha.

 

One thing that drives me nuts is how there's rarely any sort of mea culpa when they're wrong where they admit it and own it. Most of them just sweep the bad predictions under the rug like they never happened and then go right back to loudly proclaiming that they know exactly which QBs in this class will be studs and which will be duds. Not all of them, but most of them.

[Dah-Dee]

 

[Kalu44]

General question here. Does Maye go through his progressions well? I keep hearing that Daniels does (and see it on film reviews), but don’t think I’ve heard that about Maye specifically. It wouldn’t shocked me if I missed it though. 

[Conn]

So Hoge didn’t like Rodgers, Mahomes, or Herbert? He doesn’t like toolsy guys who can break the rules, makes sense if he’s consistent in that regard. Probably didn’t like Josh Allen or even Can Newton then? Assume he didn’t like Anthony Richardson either. 

[skinsarethebest]

1 hour ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

and this is the same kind of logical fallacy that has people pining for Sam Howell…. Trying to prove a positive point with a negative…

 

”well, he didn’t have X so he could have been good if he did have X”….  That’s the most that can be proven: that the person COULD have been good.   Yet people mistakenly convert that COULD to an IS.  The reality is that even if he had a solid O Line and strong supporting cast, he also might not have had success.  We just do not know.

 

And yet they claim the evidence of Maye succeeding in the pros is somehow greater than the evidence supporting those who actually did succeed (even if it was with what some might say is a better O line and better receivers and supporting cast).
 

A lot of Commanders fans did it with Howell and now seem like they are doing it with Maye.   

 

In other words, if Maye had the same O line and receivers as Daniels, would he have put up the same numbers and won the Heisman?  We simply do not know.  It is by nature impossible to know.

 

But yet we want to say that non-knowledge is stronger evidence of his likelihood to succeed than the fact that Daniels actually DID succeed with the O line and supporting cast that he did have.  

 

Doesn’t make sense speaking purely from the point of view of logic.

[SkinsFTW]

55 minutes ago, skinsarethebest said:

 

Doesn’t make sense speaking purely from the point of view of logic.

 

Winning the Heisman and numbers in college don't correlate to NFL success.

 

For instance,  do you know who was the last Heisman winning QB to win a SUPERBOWl?

 

Spoiler

Jim Plunkett 1970

 

I mean, you could almost say that it disqualifies Daniels. It's been more than half a century.

[skinsarethebest]

3 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Winning the Heisman and numbers in college don't correlate to NFL success.

 

yes, but my point is that Maye didn’t even have those stellar college numbers to point to, so why don’t we have even more skepticism towards him, rather than less…?

 

Seems like he’s being given way too much benefit of the doubt, whereas conversely, for a QB who actually did put up those good numbers, there’s a tendency to dismiss them out of hand.

Edited April 8 by skinsarethebest

[FootballZombie]

4 hours ago, skinsarethebest said:

Doesn’t make sense speaking purely from the point of view of logic.

 

I agree for the most part.

 

If you want to say a guy was hurt or suffered from "X", fine whatever. But it does not give you the right to claim a newfangled reality where a prospect is the complete opposite of whatever problem was displayed. That is simply giving credit for things a prospect did not display, show or earn, and is pure wishcasting. Its also a good way to get hella burned.

 

You wanna know when you can say Maye is a good decision maker that does not hero ball it all the time? When he puts it on film.

You wanna know when JD can be a guy you rely on to protect himself properly? When he puts it on film.

 

Sure there are surrounding circumstances that add to those issues an likely made them worse, but you are what your film says you are.

 

I'm not bringing in Maye with the thought that he is some high level quality decision maker in the same way I don't expect JD to be a sliding savant. I'd do everything in my power to accelerate the learning process around these issues (see previous posts involving Rafiki and Da Slide Coach) but I don't give them the stamp of approval until I see it on the field.

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

He wants the Raiders, apparently. Not surprising, and it doesn’t really matter, but not a good move to say it publicly. Gonna have to try to find the clip later. 
 

Also, lol at BTJ’s reaction to joining the Bills. My guess is it’s due to living in Buffalo. 
 

 

 

[mistertim]

5 hours ago, skinsarethebest said:

and this is the same kind of logical fallacy that has people pining for Sam Howell…. Trying to prove a positive point with a negative…

 

”well, he didn’t have X so he could have been good if he did have X”….  That’s the most that can be proven: that the person COULD have been good.   Yet people mistakenly convert that COULD to an IS.  The reality is that even if he had a solid O Line and strong supporting cast, he also might not have had success.  We just do not know.

 

And yet they claim the evidence of Maye succeeding in the pros is somehow greater than the evidence supporting those who actually did succeed (even if it was with what some might say is a better O line and better receivers and supporting cast).
 

A lot of Commanders fans did it with Howell and now seem like they are doing it with Maye.   

 

In other words, if Maye had the same O line and receivers as Daniels, would he have put up the same numbers and won the Heisman?  We simply do not know.  It is by nature impossible to know.

 

But yet we want to say that non-knowledge is stronger evidence of his likelihood to succeed than the fact that Daniels actually DID succeed with the O line and supporting cast that he did have.  

 

Doesn’t make sense speaking purely from the point of view of logic.

 

This is the single longest winded way of saying "NUH UH!" I've ever seen.

[Skinsinparadise]

Rewatched Daniels for the first time in months last night.  Been spending more time rewatching Maye and McCarthy in recent weeks so am frankly been more familar with both of them versus Daniels who I watched months back.

 

My take is I can see the Daniels > Maye from a bunch of folks watching with a new lense but IMO based on one perspective which is first level throws.  Maye is oddly erratic with first level throws.  He makes the hard ones look easy and some of the easy ones look hard.  That's not the case with Daniels. 

 

He's good with making throws in the flat, not perfect but his accuracy is good on that front.  Also he hits WRs in stride mostly which is important for YAC on the first level.  Maye's accuracy comes and goes on the first level but also receivers have to often adjust to his throws on the first level where they have to turn back, etc to grab them.  So if you are looking the two purely on that lense, Daniels kicks Maye butt and its not really close.  But that's just one component to their game.  But some seem obsessed with that facet of the game and hence their takes are colored by that.

 

But....

 

Maye is wicked as to making 2nd level throws and deep throws, and throws with anticipation, makes contested throws.  Changes speeds.  NFL stuff on a regular basis.  So on the aggregate I like Maye's arsenal better than Daniels.  But if you are obssessed with the layups. Daniels owns that.  When I listen to for example Phil Simms (not to be confused with Chris) or Warner, etc they seem obssessed with this component.  And they aren't wrong IMO if that's the theme they care about the most.  And its evident for me more so on the rewatching of both players.  But its not a theme for me.  But its made me get some of the Daniels > Maye people some more.  It's about what you are looking for.  I doesn't make me get though the anti-Maye people because Maye does so many things well.

 

Back to Daniels, I would say rewatching him and projecting him fixing some of the flaws that I've highlighed in recnt monts.  I think 2 of them he can conquer.  2 of them am not so sure.

 

1.  Making 2nd level throws.  This I think he takes care of in the NFL.  He didn't make many of them in the games I watched but when he did, he was good with them.  I think that has some carry over.

 

2.  Making off platform throws.  Again not many of them but when he did them he was decent.  Rewatching I think this is more of a mindset than ability drill.  He needs to be drilled out to run so much.  But when he has to readjust his body to make off platform throws, he looks decent doing it.  So I think its in him.

 

3.  Throwing with anticipation.  I didn't see anything that reassures me on this front.  It's really conservative on him to just wait for a Wr to get open but that's his game.  Alex Smith is a bit infamous for this too and supposedly is part of why he doesn't throw many picks but also limits his game.

 

4. Protecting himself while running.  I'll double down that his running is electric.  I am not in the camp here that its overrrated or linear.  That dude has some serious wiggle including at times in the pocket.  But he seems to want to juke everyone until he's taken down.   Just win once or twice, eventually your luck is going to run out.   He pushes his luck all the time.

 

What some see as bad vision to me its the dude has a move where he doesn't like to give away the direction of his run so he comes right at the defender partly to see if the defender will give away their body language leaning in advance and takes avantage of that by juking the defender at the last second where its easier to do it that way because the defender is off balance.  I get it, it was one of my soccer moves back in he day.  You can see him looking straight at the defender so its not that he doesn't see him. 

 

But the way for a defender to deal with it (I also know from my soccer days) is to let the player come to you and stay straight, don't lean your body anywhere and if the player comes too close to you before making the move just collapse on them. On soccer of course its going for the ball versus the body but its the same idea.  Most defenders fail to do this, they will guess a side but some get it and pull it off -- and those dudes tend to tackle Daniels but to my eyes it is clear as a bell that he sees them.  With some exceptions.  Exceptions of course exist to everything,

 

 

Edited April 8 by Skinsinparadise