The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

4 hours ago, philibusters said:

 

I had Kenny Pickett and Malik Willis in tier 1, Corral and Howell in tier 2, and Ridder and Strong in tier 3, and a bunch of guys including Zappe and Purdy in tier 4.  It was a mild surprise to me that Ridder and especially Zappe went ahead of Howell.   I knew Wilis was super raw and could easily bust, but I saw him as having the best physical tools of the bunch.

 

Cant quite remember my tiers and I didn't really scout Purdy or Zappe so can't do them. I do remember I had Strong as not draftable.

 

Pickett > Ridder > Howell (pretty sure were my 1, 2, and 3 in that order). Then a tier down was Willis, another tier down was Corral.

[HigSkin]

13 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I heard this the other day and was surprised, why is he still nursing an injury 7 months later?

 

The news on it was sketchy, apparently he broke his colarbone although not confirmed, had surgery required "hardware" then had another surgery to take out the "hardware".

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I was in on Howell, after watching him in 8U flag football back in North Carolina. 

[Going Commando]

6 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

That's just spit balling btw. Im not married to anything beyond us being proactive about adding talent to the OL so we don't David Carr a potential 1st round value caliber QB prospect in Howell because we couldn't be bothered to effectively address the OL while adding luxury defensive picks in round 1 year after year after year. 

 

Building a dominant defense is never a luxury.  It is one of the tried and true formulas for competing for championships.  It takes constant maintenance with premium team building tools because you have to stock your entire defense with athletes.  And it is one of the biggest ways you can support the development of a young QB prospect.

[Conn]

23 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I was in on Howell, after watching him in 8U flag football back in North Carolina. 

I saw him make a kid puke with a dodgeball when he was in 5th grade, knew right then he had the makings of a top-10 NFL arm 

[MisterPinstripe]

More Howell love.

 

 

 

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

Never seen this guy before. But nice breakdown on some of Sam's better plays, including the throw to Terry. Although seeing it from the top it could be argued he was late with the throw. If he goes there sooner Terry does not have to fight for the ball and he walks into the EZ. I guess if you have the arm - and that ball was on a rope, you can take those kind of chances, esepcailly with terry. More importantly, it's easy for me to say seeing it in slow motion, from a birds eye view, 5 days later  🤣

 

 

 

 

I like his breakdown, but my man has GOT to get a new keyboard. He was hitting what sounded like the space bar over and over to start and stop the video and it sounded like he was pounding on a 1950s typewriter.

[goskins10]

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I like his breakdown, but my man has GOT to get a new keyboard. He was hitting what sounded like the space bar over and over to start and stop the video and it sounded like he was pounding on a 1950s typewriter.

 

Yea, I noticed that too. Or not put the mic so close to the keyboard. Something. It was a bang fest.

[KDawg]

I obviously had Pickett over Howell. 100%. 
 

Howell was a fifth rounder, guys. How can anyone think he can be good? It defies logic. Pickett was a first so he’s obviously better.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

16 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

More Howell love.

 

 

 

Here they come....they see what some of us see....we can be/are very Legit...... sooner than later.

[zCommander]

46 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I obviously had Pickett over Howell. 100%. 
 

Howell was a fifth rounder, guys. How can anyone think he can be good? It defies logic. Pickett was a first so he’s obviously better.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by zCommander

[Rex Tomb]

53 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

More Howell love.

 

 

 

99% of this guy's videos are clickbait - where they don't talk anything about the topic he says it will be.  Clickbait artist and it's really obnoxious.  I refuse to watch his vids because of it no matter what the title says.

[FootballZombie]

I don't watch college football, but I can confidently say my pecking order that year coming out started and ended w/ Leon Sandcastle. He was so clearly built different.

We picked wrong

 

[MisterPinstripe]

2 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

99% of this guy's videos are clickbait - where they don't talk anything about the topic he says it will be.  Clickbait artist and it's really obnoxious.  I refuse to watch his vids because of it no matter what the title says.

Yeah, but it's the only video posted of this segment so, meh. I don't care too much, I'd rather watch it regardless, I'll just scim them to see if the content is accurate. 

[SonnySideUp]

I don't recall Sam being on IR last year as this guy says but I love seeing the team getting this kind of press for the first time since the first Gibbs era.

 

 

 

[NoCalMike]

Comparing Purdy & Howell out there, it is hard to deny Purdy because he is 9-0 as a starter in the regular season but maaaaan that WCO just makes things so easy for the guy he does throw a couple solid deeper footballs a game but his skill position players get so much YAC off the most basic short passes it's nuts, plus the O-line giving him so much time.....I swear Purdy must play with a 4 leaf clover in his pocket because even going back to last season he seems to throw 4-5 passes that are in defenders hands every single game, yet most never actually get intercepted.  I see what Howell is doing out there and to me it transfers more to what you need to do be a QB in the NFL when the talent around you isn't in contender status yet.  Howell's sample size is much shorter at this point, but I can say easily with confidence he is throwing a lot more dynamic passes, throwing lasers into tight spaces etc etc.......

[The Consigliere]

16 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

Building a dominant defense is never a luxury.  It is one of the tried and true formulas for competing for championships.  It takes constant maintenance with premium team building tools because you have to stock your entire defense with athletes.  And it is one of the biggest ways you can support the development of a young QB prospect.

 

If you don't have a QB, you can't build a sustained contender. It renders everything else totally irrelevant. Have their been exceptions? Sure, but do you want to try a model that only the Ravens and Niners have managed to nail down the last 20 years and in the Ravens case, they had league average Quarterbacking, and better with Lamar, and the Niners eventually had Jimmy G, who was also basically a league average guy before the injuries started piling up.

 

Yes D has value. But if you're O is garbage and your QB is a rent a scrub off the cast off heaps of former 1st rounders that never actually hit, all that building of D means ----- all.

 

I'd never deny that D doesn't have value, it does, but you have to have a competent OL, and your QB before you can indulge luxury picks like Davis, or system fit types like Forbes was supposedly. Its pure lunacy to be doing what we did in round 1 in the Rivera era. Pure lunacy. 

 

It should be noted the only way the picks have any relevance to speak of, is if the little 5th rounder miracle pick makes good, if that doesn't, that D takes us nowhere, just like it did every other Rivera season (I'll grant the occasional 1 and done playoff appearance when our entire division was trash, but really, been there, done, that in 2005, 2007, and 2012 and none of those runs were sticky in the slightest because the QB's weren't of any long term value). 

[The Consigliere]

15 hours ago, KDawg said:

I obviously had Pickett over Howell. 100%. 
 

Howell was a fifth rounder, guys. How can anyone think he can be good? It defies logic. Pickett was a first so he’s obviously better.

 

Reps and draft capital tend to make those selections stickier unfortunately. That's what makes me so relieved with Howell:

#1 Despite the draft capital, the team had him as a day 2 guy, so they were more invested in him than say, the team probably was when they took Hamdan years ago in a somewhat similar spot (I think 7th?)

 

#2 I think as it became clear the Wentz decision was a fail, Howell was going to get more run than typical for a 5th rounder in practice, and potentially get a game to reduce the compensation package for Wentz.

 

If Howell had gotten the normal treatment most day 3 QB selections get (think of the guys selected in the horror show '13 and '14 drafts for instance that had previously been more well thought of like Howell, guys like the Tyler's (Bray and Wilson), Aaron Murray, Mettenberger etc), I'd be far less enthused, but because he landed on a team without a long term answer at the position, a FO/HC that were reasonably flexible at the position (willing to give young players a chance, and old guys too), and a team where the vet options imploded, we got to see what Howell actually was despite the awful draft capital investment that typically dictates reps, and time investment by an organization. 

 

Sometimes hitting on a prospect requires more than just the players individual talent, this seems like one of those cases where the outside factors really helped serve up an opportunity, and unlike say, a Haskins or a Campbell or a Ramsey etc, he's taking advantage of it. 

30 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Comparing Purdy & Howell out there, it is hard to deny Purdy because he is 9-0 as a starter in the regular season but maaaaan that WCO just makes things so easy for the guy he does throw a couple solid deeper footballs a game but his skill position players get so much YAC off the most basic short passes it's nuts, plus the O-line giving him so much time.....I swear Purdy must play with a 4 leaf clover in his pocket because even going back to last season he seems to throw 4-5 passes that are in defenders hands every single game, yet most never actually get intercepted.  I see what Howell is doing out there and to me it transfers more to what you need to do be a QB in the NFL when the talent around you isn't in contender status yet.  Howell's sample size is much shorter at this point, but I can say easily with confidence he is throwing a lot more dynamic passes, throwing lasers into tight spaces etc etc.......

 

Part of the good news for me is that he's had 3 games, he hasn't had a stinker yet, and instead of folding in the elevation of Denver (which, if you haven't travelled to the mountains, is intense. I live at 5300 feet elevation, and it's so fundamentally obviously different, in terms of ease of breathing versus say, the bay area where I grew up, and nobody is noting that) which could easily happen in the 2nd half, he excelled. Pretty damn impressive so far. Sample size still far too small, but it's damn exciting. This week could definitely be a come down, we'll see. 

[KDawg]

43 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

 

Reps and draft capital tend to make those selections stickier unfortunately. That's what makes me so relieved with Howell:

#1 Despite the draft capital, the team had him as a day 2 guy, so they were more invested in him than say, the team probably was when they took Hamdan years ago in a somewhat similar spot (I think 7th?)

 

#2 I think as it became clear the Wentz decision was a fail, Howell was going to get more run than typical for a 5th rounder in practice, and potentially get a game to reduce the compensation package for Wentz.

 

If Howell had gotten the normal treatment most day 3 QB selections get (think of the guys selected in the horror show '13 and '14 drafts for instance that had previously been more well thought of like Howell, guys like the Tyler's (Bray and Wilson), Aaron Murray, Mettenberger etc), I'd be far less enthused, but because he landed on a team without a long term answer at the position, a FO/HC that were reasonably flexible at the position (willing to give young players a chance, and old guys too), and a team where the vet options imploded, we got to see what Howell actually was despite the awful draft capital investment that typically dictates reps, and time investment by an organization. 

 

Sometimes hitting on a prospect requires more than just the players individual talent, this seems like one of those cases where the outside factors really helped serve up an opportunity, and unlike say, a Haskins or a Campbell or a Ramsey etc, he's taking advantage of it. 

 

Part of the good news for me is that he's had 3 games, he hasn't had a stinker yet, and instead of folding in the elevation of Denver (which, if you haven't travelled to the mountains, is intense. I live at 5300 feet elevation, and it's so fundamentally obviously different, in terms of ease of breathing versus say, the bay area where I grew up, and nobody is noting that) which could easily happen in the 2nd half, he excelled. Pretty damn impressive so far. Sample size still far too small, but it's damn exciting. This week could definitely be a come down, we'll see. 

I think you missed my very obvious sarcasm

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

12 hours ago, SonnySideUp said:

I don't recall Sam being on IR last year as this guy says but I love seeing the team getting this kind of press for the first time since the first Gibbs era.

 

 

 

 

The guy is thinking of Carson Wentz. Wentz went on IR, not Howell.

[OtisDriftwood25]

17 hours ago, KDawg said:

I obviously had Pickett over Howell. 100%. 
 

Howell was a fifth rounder, guys. How can anyone think he can be good? It defies logic. Pickett was a first so he’s obviously better.

I don’t know how you pull up the old draft thread but I had Howell 1. My reasoning was after watching limited tape, he was the only one that had to actually read defenses. Pickett was a half field or 1 read then scramble right. Corral had an innovative offense that schemed receivers open for him. Now,I also had Howell as a late 1 early 2 just because of need and didn’t love any of the quarterbacks.

[KDawg]

7 minutes ago, OtisDriftwood25 said:

I don’t know how you pull up the old draft thread but I had Howell 1. My reasoning was after watching limited tape, he was the only one that had to actually read defenses. Pickett was a half field or 1 read then scramble right. Corral had an innovative offense that schemed receivers open for him. Now,I also had Howell as a late 1 early 2 just because of need and didn’t love any of the quarterbacks.

 

I sense that my sarcasm is not translating appropriately. 

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I think you missed my very obvious sarcasm

I didn't miss it, I just felt like talking about draft capital and its impact on a players chances to break through when they do actually have the talent, potentially, to succeed. 

 

If a guy like Howell lands in Buffalo, New England, Cleveland, Baltimore, Cincy, Jacksonville, Denver, KC, San Diego, Dallas, Philly, NYG, Minnesota this probably doesn't happen no matter how talented he is. Opportunity is really important for day 2 and day 3 guys and sometimes it can trump talent. 

Edited September 22, 2023 by The Consigliere

[redskinss]

 

[method man]

20 minutes ago, OtisDriftwood25 said:

I don’t know how you pull up the old draft thread but I had Howell 1. My reasoning was after watching limited tape, he was the only one that had to actually read defenses. Pickett was a half field or 1 read then scramble right. Corral had an innovative offense that schemed receivers open for him. Now,I also had Howell as a late 1 early 2 just because of need and didn’t love any of the quarterbacks.

KDawg was Howell’s biggest backer in the draft thread

17 hours ago, KDawg said:

I obviously had Pickett over Howell. 100%. 
 

Howell was a fifth rounder, guys. How can anyone think he can be good? It defies logic. Pickett was a first so he’s obviously better.

Does KDawg = Kevin Sheehan?