The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[mistertim]

10 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

I was done with kirk when he shoved (with some force) a referee in a charity game. Bruce ****ed up the contract negotiations due to his massive ego but I also believe Kirk never negotiated in good faith. 

 

Getting back to our current QB. Nothing about his play here, just a glimpse to his personality. 

 

 

 

Holy crap I forgot about the referee thing. He was yelling at the ref in a ****ing charity flag football game. Wasn't there a video of it?

[goskins10]

56 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Holy crap I forgot about the referee thing. He was yelling at the ref in a ****ing charity flag football game. Wasn't there a video of it?

 

yes.  It’s posted in the Kirk thread.  Can find it on YouTube.  

Edited September 10, 2022 by goskins10

[Cooleyfan1993]

27 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

yes.  It’s posted in the Kirk thread.  Can find it on YouTube.  

Which sadly doesn’t exist anymore  

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Which sadly doesn’t exist anymore  

look in the fantasy and madden area.   Or search for cousins in the topic titles.   I can’t copy the url from my phone or I would.  

[zCommander]

11 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

look in the fantasy and madden area.   Or search for cousins in the topic titles.   I can’t copy the url from my phone or I would.  

 

Kirk's thread was shutdown a long time ago. You can flip through the ATN section to still find it.

[Warhead36]

Some of the best QBs of all time were jerks. Gimmie a jerk if he's also a baller. 

 

Kirk gets way too much hate. He's a fringe top 12-ish QB and I think he's gonna have a monster year now that the Vikings have a coach that actually knows modern NFL football. Zimmer was stuck in the 70s.

[Zim489]

Dont forget that he nearly missed the box for the gender reveal party standing 7 ft away from it. 

 

But Really kirk is a a top 12-15 QB that is wildly up and down while often being paid way too much.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Some of the best QBs of all time were jerks. Gimmie a jerk if he's also a baller. 

 

Kirk gets way too much hate. He's a fringe top 12-ish QB and I think he's gonna have a monster year now that the Vikings have a coach that actually knows modern NFL football. Zimmer was stuck in the 70s.

 

Sure, a guy can be something of a jerk if he's also an elite QB (see Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers). But KIrk isn't anywhere close to that level to where he can be an asshole and get away with it. He's just not that good of a player.

 

People have been saying that about Kirk for a long time now. "Give him this and he'll be awesome!" "Give him this and he'll win a SB!"

 

He's been on multiple stacked teams, especially with the Vikings, and he still hasn't done anything of note. He'll put up some good numbers at times but he isn't anywhere close to a QB who can put a team on his back.

 

Kirk IMO is the quintessential "good but not great or elite" QB who demands an outrageous contract but isn't even close to being worth it in the long run.

[Rex Tomb]

31 minutes ago, mistertim said:

He'll put up some good numbers at times but he isn't anywhere close to a QB who can put a team on his back.

If anything, that's when he's at his worst and he completely melts down under the pressure.  I'll never forget his atrocious play against the Giants in a win and in game a while back with us.  He threw something like three picks and fumbled at least once.  And you could see it in his eyes in a big moment - he was scared ****less.

[Skinsinparadise]

Washington Commanders QB Carson Wentz more comfortable than ever, but will his game change?

ASHBURN, Va. – Washington Commanders quarterback Carson Wentz has a level of comfort that may have been missing in Philadelphia and Indianapolis.

He feels good about his family situation. They’re living in a rural town in northern Virginia more than an hour outside of the nation’s capital, reminding him more of his North Dakota roots. He and his wife have two young daughters, three dogs and a pace of life that suits them.

Wentz also feels good about his new team. The quarterback will be surrounded by a 1,000-yard receiver (Terry McLaurin), a 1,000-yard rusher (Antonio Gibson), an all-around tight end (Logan Thomas) and a first-round rookie receiver who looked good all summer (Jahan Dotson). There’s more, but that’s the starting point.

At 29, Wentz has reached a good spot. After being traded in each of the last two offseasons, he arrived in Washington as a different person than the one who arrived in Philadelphia six years ago as the No. 2 overall pick. In Washington, his home life is settled, he has bonded with teammates over golf, steaks and date nights with spouses.

Wentz is learning to be a better listener in the locker room and has exuded an air of confidence that has the Commanders hopeful he’ll stabilize a position plagued by inconsistency and change the past five years.

But, as the season begins at home against the Jacksonville Jaguars on Sunday (1 p.m. ET, Fox), one question remains: Will any of it impact Wentz's play on the field?

“It's technically two separate things, but my mind's not worried about my wife and kids,” Wentz said. “They're having a good time. I know they're taken care of so I can be fully invested here, which definitely helps.”

 

IT IS A pivotal season for the Commanders, entering Year 3 under coach Ron Rivera. They are seeking their first winning season since 2016 and first playoff win since 2005.

The organization needs success. It needs stability at quarterback where 10 players have started at the position since 2018. That’s why Washington aggressively sought a proven starter this offseason, calling any team whose quarterback might be available – even inquiring about the retired Andrew Luck.

They ended up with Wentz, sending a second-round pick in the 2022 draft and what likely will turn into a second-rounder next year to the Indianapolis Colts and taking on all of Wentz’s $28.3 million salary this season.

 

 

Wentz arrived from Indy with plenty of baggage. He was criticized by Colts owner Jim Irsay, who was unhappy that Wentz was not being vaccinated for COVID-19. Wentz’s inconsistent play and inability to lead the Colts to a victory in the final two games last season, which cost the team a spot in the playoffs, didn’t help matters.

Wentz threw 27 touchdown passes to seven interceptions and ranked ninth in total QBR but was quickly traded to Washington without Indy having an immediate plan to replace him.

The 2022 season hasn’t started so all is well with his new team. The Commanders feel good based on what they witnessed from Wentz in the spring and summer practices.

“He seems to handle everything with an air of confidence but grace,” Rivera said. “He doesn't, fight it. He doesn't snap back at it. You see some of the decisions he makes, and you only make those, in my opinion, if you're confident in what you're doing.”

The Commanders have told Wentz how much he’s wanted – Rivera said it to him, again, as he returned for training camp.

“He has stabilized that position for us,” Washington general manager Martin Mayhew said. “We’re excited about what he brings to the table in terms of his physical talent and also what he brings to the table as a person, as a leader.”

“You've seen things. You understand things. You have a different perspective,” Wentz said. “But also just my perspective on being married for four years with a very young locker room, guys that are maybe engaged or may have real life questions, too. All of that comes with experience and being relatable and trying to be authentic.”

Four years ago, Washington traded for Alex Smith, the No. 1 pick in the 2005 draft. He, too, arrived having experienced a mercurial career arc like Wentz, complete with benchings and injuries and criticism and a trade – as well as success.

 

Smith matured on the field throughout his career, showing some limitations but enjoying success. He admitted to letting the weight of expectations get to him early in his career. Wentz understood the sentiment.

“You try to not let those things bog you down, but they're real things,” Wentz said. “I was a 23-year-old kid from North Dakota that never left North Dakota. So, you get thrown into the wildfire of Philly, and you want to succeed. You have to learn to navigate the ups and downs and the pressures, the expectations. I've had a great supporting cast from family, even before I met my wife, and people around me and my faith to keep me grounded. You still got to live it out and go through it.

“It's hard.”

While navigating that road, Wentz became a controversial figure.

“We’re not perfect. I’m not perfect,” Wentz said. “I’ve definitely failed in moments, and maybe been a certain type of way, but I try to be the same. I try to be consistent, and I try to be authentic. But at the same time sticking true to my values and who I am.”

That means sharing his faith with others, especially if a teammate provides an opening -- a practice one source said rubbed some former teammates the wrong way.

“It’s always a fine line navigating,” Wentz said, “but that’s also one of the cool parts of a locker room because there are guys from a bunch of different backgrounds and cultures, different upbringing and faiths and who are at different points in their faith journey so that’s kind of fun.

"I try not to think I’m better than anyone else and try not to have judgmental opinions. But I am also showing this is what I believe, let’s have a conversation and do it out of a place of love and not judgment.”

Some of that also could stem from his personality. Wentz said he’s had to learn to harness that trait with his family and that, in turn, can help in a locker room.

“I’ve always been Type A and wired to get stuff done,” he said. “[But] sometimes they just need me to listen and shut up and be present. I’ve learned that and tried to grow in that, which is applied to work as well. I like to think I can be loose and relax and have fun with the guys. But when it's time to work, I'm relatively locked in and ready to go.”

 

---

THE COMMANDERS CAN help his climb back to the upper half with a solid array of skill talent: McLaurin, Dotson and Curtis Samuel; Thomas; third-down back J.D. McKissic and versatile back Gibson. And if the offensive line protects him, those weapons can be maximized.

“We have a guy that we can now establish and rally around and build off of,” Rivera said of Wentz, “which is what we tried to do in the offseason, as far as making sure we had a stout offensive line to protect him and in the playmakers. That's what you have to do.”

The rest will be up to Wentz. Has he evolved? And will that be good enough? But what comforts him is knowing that his daughters don’t care whether he tossed five touchdowns or two interceptions.

“There’s something bigger than just this game and this job,” Wentz said. “It almost is freeing to just give everything I have to this game and not stress about the outcome, but give it all I have because I want to, because I'm setting an example for my kids.”

 

That’s partly why he likes living in the northern Virginia countryside, spending time with his wife and kids in horse country.

“We like a slower pace,” Wentz said. “That’s definitely helped the transition for sure. It gives me a sense of peace and a sense of comfort, knowing that they enjoy it. They feel safe. They feel good.”

He’s been golfing with defensive tackle Jon Allen and linebacker Cole Holcomb and punter Tress Way. If you can learn a lot from golfing with someone, these players did.

“He’s an aggressive swinger,” Allen said. “He always goes for it.”

“If he starts playing really, really well,” Way said, “he refers to himself as ‘Poppa.’ If he has three good holes in a row it’ll be like, ‘Oh, Poppa’s got the flat stick working.’ I told him, ‘I can’t wait until you’re shredding some defense in the season, and I’ll be like Poppa’s got it working today.’”

Holcomb hung out with Wentz at the Preakness Stakes and other offseason events. They sit next to each other in team meetings.

“He always takes time out of his day to listen and care what you’re talking about,” Holcomb said. “He’s real competitive, and I just think he’s a good dude.”

There are also the steaks he’s cooked for tackle Charles Leno Jr., and his family as well as Way’s family among others.

And then there’s the date night trips Way and Wentz have made with their spouses to the Escape Room – a timed game in which a party must uncover clues, solve puzzles and accomplish tasks in order to escape from the site of the game. Once in a room, Way said Wentz looks like he’s running the offense – sometimes going into a stance, pointing at a door and telling someone to check it out.

Suddenly, the Type A quarterback in him takes over.

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/washington-commanders/post/_/id/42451/washington-commanders-quarterback-carson-wentz-has-matured-but-will-his-game-change

[Wyvern]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

He's been on multiple stacked teams, especially with the Vikings, and he still hasn't done anything of note. He'll put up some good numbers at times but he isn't anywhere close to a QB who can put a team on his back.

Maybe they were stacked at WR and with a great (but fragile) RB.... But when I reviewed the league's offensive line rankings since 2018, the Vikings offensive line has not been very good (20-28th), and really poor in pass protection.  Toss in an old school coach who sticks too long with the running game, and a Viking defense that had been sliding badly since 2019.   it seemed Cousins had a lot of uphill challenges to carry his team, -- especially when the defenses and special teams weren't helping and he was often playing from behind behind a porous offensive line.

 

Sure, he's got flaws (streaky, too easily blindsided in the pocket, gets excited when trying too hard sometimes, etc.) but he is a decent enough QB.  And he was lucky enough to cash in on the start of the mega-contracts we're now seeing in the NFL.  (And frankly, I can understand why he didn't re-sign with Snyder and Allen and instead gambled on getting though his two franchise-tag years without getting injured and devaluing his value as a free agent.).

 

I can understand some reasons for why some folks wouldn't want him as QB-1 for Washington, but I still don't see enough reason (even his grilling style) for folks to absolutely hate the guy.

 

I know some folks will take issue with this post -- it's a free country, so feel free to fire away.  But know that  I'm not planning to reply back any further on Kirk Cousins in this thread.  I'd rather this thread focus on Washington's current group of QBs, rather than those no longer with the team.  (I'm just really hoping Wentz has a great year in Washington, and Howell continues to hone his NFL-level QB skills under Zampese's tutelage.)

Edited September 10, 2022 by Wyvern

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I see a lot of old scabs being picked at in this thread. Man…some of y’all need Reiki in your life. Get your shakras in line. Let things go. Good lord. 😆

[Jumbo]

6 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

Kirk's thread was shutdown a long time ago. You can flip through the ATN section to still find it.

 

What kind of A-hole would do that?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Seriously, let Kirk go. All of you. Just stop it. STOP IT. 
 

Anyway, on the eve of the new season there’s nothing that nobody can tell me about Wentz to make me change my mind.  I’ll die on the hill that this team knew no QB was going to come here in free agency so they had to swing a trade for Wentz before the Colts could cut him. I don’t think Wentz would have elected to come here on his own. Mayhew, Rivera and whoever else can say “this is the guy we wanted” all they want, but they’re leaving out the “because otherwise we’d be starting a rookie from a bad draft class or Heinicke again” part. Wentz is still a bit of a name and has an arm so he’s way more marketable than any other option. 
 

I’m sure he’ll have some great games and I’m sure he’ll have some

clunkers. We might even **** around and back into a playoff spot. But I won’t be surprised if he ****s the bed in some really big spots. 

But he’s better than Heinicke. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

9 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

He's a fringe top 12-ish QB

Do you know what they call a fringe top 12 QB?

 

#13

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I don’t doubt Mayhew, Rivera and the gang wanted Wentz.  Only they wanted Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers more, as they should.

[CommanderDOOM]

What if we get the best yet version of "walk it to em" Wentz??

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don’t doubt Mayhew, Rivera and the gang wanted Wentz.  Only they wanted Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers more, as they should.

Yeah, and Carr.  And maybe even Ryan.  But none of those guys were made available.  

 

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Seriously, let Kirk go. All of you. Just stop it. STOP IT. 
 

Anyway, on the eve of the new season there’s nothing that nobody can tell me about Wentz to make me change my mind.  I’ll die on the hill that this team knew no QB was going to come here in free agency so they had to swing a trade for Wentz before the Colts could cut him. I don’t think Wentz would have elected to come here on his own. Mayhew, Rivera and whoever else can say “this is the guy we wanted” all they want, but they’re leaving out the “because otherwise we’d be starting a rookie from a bad draft class or Heinicke again” part. Wentz is still a bit of a name and has an arm so he’s way more marketable than any other option. 
 

I’m sure he’ll have some great games and I’m sure he’ll have some

clunkers. We might even **** around and back into a playoff spot. But I won’t be surprised if he ****s the bed in some really big spots. 

But he’s better than Heinicke. 

You know, I think this "they'll never come here" thing is massively over-blown.  McKissic chose to stay here instead of going to Buffalo.  For the same contract. They got WJIII and Samuel, who were 2 of the top free agents at their positions in 2021 to come here.  I get they had a relationship with Samuel, they did not with WJIII.  They also got Fuller to come back, McCain came and then re-signed, Leno came and re-signed, Lucas came and re-signed, McKissic came and re-Signed, Logan Thomas came and re-signed, Allen re-signed, Terry re-signed.  All of these guys would have had other options if they wanted them.  And 2 of them are pro-bowl caliber players (Allen and Terry) and the rest are NFL Starters, except Lucas who's a very solid backup.  

 

1. In FA, they absolutely could have gotten Trubisky, Mariota, Dalton, Bridgewater.  For guys like that, money talks.  Pay them an extra mil, they show up.  Would they have gotten into a bidding war with the Steelers or something?  Yeah.  Could they have won it?  Yeah.  They didn't want them.  They wanted somebody better.  And Wentz has been better than all of those jabronies.  

2. Seattle made it clear they weren't going to trade Wilson to the NFC.  So that ended that. Would he have come here?  Probably not, but it would have depended on the other place as well.  Here vs. the Jets?  Jags? Maybe.  Denver?  Probably not.  But we'll never know because the Seahawks determined they were only trading with the AFC, so he never had an option to pick.   Rodgers and Carr were never available.

3. Did they kindof force Wentz's hand by trading for him?  Yeah.  Do I care.  Not even a little bit.  He was BY FAR the best possible option available to them, regardless of no-trade clause or not. And all of those folks who think he was going to be released, it never would have happened.  Carolina or Seattle would have offered something for him to prevent him from getting to the open market.  The reporting is at least 1 other team was interested in trading for him.  If the Colts released him, they would have recouped NOTHING from the trade they made, a 1 and a 2, and they DESPERATELY wanted something back so they didn't look like complete fools.  

4. They also could have made the Godfather offer to Houston and Watson Cleveland made.  And Watson would have ABSOLUTELY waived his no trade clause for that offer no matter where it was.  Cleveland wasn't on his list, then it was.  I'm not suggesting we should have, I don't think we should have.  But we could have if we wanted to, and he would have come here.  (And invited a massive **** storm, which is why I'm glad it didn't happen.)

 

Wentz might bomb.  I have no idea if he will or he won't.  But of the options which were available, he was the best.  And it was relatively cheap and low-risk.  If he blows it, you have no long-term cap impact, and you're out a 2nd and a 3rd. That's not great, but that's a risk I'm willing to take to make damn bloody sure we have a better plan than Hienicke, Trubisky, Mariota, Bridgewater or Dalton.  And I don't think any of the rookies from this year are starting this week, so they would all have been projects.  So, even if we forced it and drafted one of the QBs higher than they probably should have been, we still would have been left with Heinicke, Trubisky, Mariota, Dalton or Bridgewater starting the season.

 

In absolutely any world, Wentz is a better going-in position that that mess.  

[Spaceman Spiff]

😐

[tmandoug1]

I have returned from Heinicke rehab......

GO CARSON!

[Llevron]

23 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

How was he a douche about it?  "This is Robert's team" was his refrain in 2012-2015 until he was named the starter.  Never mentioned RG3.  Never threw his teammates under the bus after a loss. 
 

 

 

you missed the most important part where I said I would make up any reason I need to justify my hate for the dude lol. You understand what I’m saying right? 

 

This is a tangent and a pointless one. I was just enjoying kicking the dude while a few others were. 
 

 

back on topic — If Carson looks good today I wonder how many media members will continue to trash him anyway. They have hedged their bets at this point. 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Llevron

[BraveWarrior]

Terry Bradshaw just said he doesn't believe in Carson Wentz, and doesn't think Wentz will help Washington. 

 

It's official, Wentz will be NFL MVP this year. 

 

Bradshaw is the biggest boob of just about all the on-air personalities on any network. (And it looks like he grew another chin.) He's hardly ever right about anything. Can't understand why FOX hasn't moved on from him by now. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I just want to point out on the first drive of the game, there were 3 throws which none of our QBs (except Haskins, RIP) over the past 2 years had available to them because of arm talent.  

 

NONE.  

[Koolblue13]

We might be a good team 😭

 

Crying real tears today

[Voice_of_Reason]

19 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

We might be a good team 😭

 

Crying real tears today