The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[kingdaddy]

4 hours ago, Conn said:

Pretty much explained already, I don’t need to have seen them play live to know that a team from 38 years ago that is overall slower, smaller, weaker, and less juiced on modern supplements and sports science—plus less meticulously schemed for this modern game—is going to get beaten. Montana has an argument for being the best pure passer of all time. So does Marino, from that time period. They mostly played behind contemporary OL the size of today’s mid round blocking TE’s. It’s a different game. The QB’s are arguably the best bet to transition to today’s game given time to learn schemes, given the game is geared towards the position, protects the position, and the WR’s aren’t allowed to be defended nearly the same way. But the ‘85 Bears weren’t known for their quarterback play lol, they’d get washed playing a modern team if you shoved them into a time machine and made them play anyone tonight. Half the roster, elite for the time, was made up of guys who would generously be considered “tweeners” today. And those guys are going to defend a complex running game operating behind a wall of behemoth OL who are all the same size as (and stronger than) The Refrigerator?

OK....if you say so. I'd suggest you do some research on the 85 Bears and then tell me that you think the 2023 version of the Commanders would beat them but I think I already know your answer so don't bother. 

[clskinsfan]

4 hours ago, Conn said:

But the ‘85 Bears weren’t known for their quarterback play lol, they’d get washed playing a modern team

Gonna have to disagree with you. That defense would shut down any offense in this league today. And do it quite easily.

Edited December 26, 2023 by clskinsfan

[FootballZombie]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

And again, I don’t care how it wants to be spun: his job was to field a good offense. So to do that, he decided throwing the ball 66% of the time was wise with an essential rookie QB and an awful OL.

 

How is this even in question? His strategy stunk. 

 

I think the best metaphor I can describe for his offensive design would be:

 

EB was given a Lego skyscraper set.

He said, "F this, Eric Bieniemy likes Pirate Ships" and used the pieces from said Lego set to build a ship.

Now he is wondering why his boat does not float all that great.

 

Just a criminal misuse of assets and inability or lack of desire to put his players in their best possible position to succeed.

The humble pie he is facing as a result was inevitable b/c you simply can't operate this way outside of college when you can have the overwhelming skill level advantage.

 

And that's before you get into the lack of adjustments to tailor your efforts to account for the strengths/weaknesses of opponents.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Just now, clskinsfan said:

Gonna have to disagree with you. That defense would **** down any offense in this league today. And do it quite easily.

Nah. They would get smoked. They couldn’t play that aggressive style of man coverage and formation based blitzing.

[Warhead36]

5 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I think the best metaphor I can describe for his offensive design would be:

 

EB was given a Lego skyscraper set.

He said, "F this, Eric Bieniemy likes Pirate Ships" and used the pieces from said Lego set to build a ship.

Now he is wondering why his boat does not float all that great.

 

Just a criminal misuse of assets and inability or lack of desire to put his players in their best possible position to succeed.

The humble pie he is facing as a result was inevitable b/c you simply can't operate this way outside of college when you can have the overwhelming skill level advantage.

 

And that's before you get into the lack of adjustments to tailor your efforts to account for the strengths/weaknesses of opponents.

Thats an outstanding analogy

[clskinsfan]

2 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Nah. They would get smoked. They couldn’t play that aggressive style of man coverage and formation based blitzing.

Why not? They played it against the best offenses then and completely dismantled them. We are not talking about the 20's Ravens here. The 85' Bears defense is the best defense to ever step on a football field in history. And it isnt close.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

Why not? They played it against the best offenses then and completely dismantled them. We are not talking about the 20's Ravens here. The 85' Bears defense is the best defense to ever step on a football field in history. And it isnt close.

Because the best offenses back then all used a fullback. The one team that beat them that year was the Dolphins because their base was three WRs and they got roasted for 38 points when their LB had to get out of the box. Buddy Ryan then went to the Eagles and always had trouble against the Redskins for the same reason.

[clskinsfan]

1 minute ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Because the best offenses back then all used a fullback. The one team that beat them that year was the Dolphins because their base was three WRs and they got roasted for 38 points when their LB had to get out of the box. Buddy Ryan then went to the Eagles and always had trouble against the Redskins for the same reason.

It took possibly the greatest QB in history to beat them ONCE that year. On a down night. And Marino was still sub 50% passing in that game if I remember correctly. Undefeated seasons are rare for a reason.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I wonder if Howell watches Trent play all these big time games with a tear in his eye, shaking his fist like me.

[zCommander]

3 hours ago, mac8887 said:

Putting words in my mouth now, I never said eb was good or bad. I sad we have no way of truly knowing because of poor qb play. 

 

I will give you just one play. When Howell is in he is asked to go for 3rd and 1 from the shotgun. When Brissett was in he handed off the ball right after snap on 3rd and 1. I have never seen, or at least remember, when EB did that when Howell was in. He did that 4 times in one game and even on 4th and 1 with Howell. Poor QB play is due to the play caller and that would be EB. Also the OL had different players as soon as Brissett came in and that was done last week as well. 

 

If EB wants to compare apple to apples then leave the same personal in for Brissett and see if he gets blown up with Wyile at RT. 

[rumplestilskin]

5 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

It took possibly the greatest QB in history to beat them ONCE that year. On a down night. And Marino was still sub 50% passing in that game if I remember correctly. Undefeated seasons are rare for a reason.

I hope you are using the word "possibly" lightly when rationalizing Dan Marino as the greatest in history. There was a time when that was the case.  BUT how soon we forget about the GOAT. He is the inconvenient truth regardless of era. We all had our idols back then but it is hard to argue that the athletes of today are on another level and the scheme/concepts/coaching/ analytics is advanced evolution compared to yesteryear. As far as Da Bears VS new era teams, it is one of those arguments that can't be solved without a serious amount of beer. Singletary had some crazy eye's that scared the **** out of me when I was 12 though. I thought he was super human.

[clskinsfan]

7 minutes ago, rumplestilskin said:

it is one of those arguments that can't be solved without a serious amount of beer

The rest of my family has gone home or is asleep at this point. So cheers and Merry Christmas my brother!

[rumplestilskin]

3 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

The rest of my family has gone home or is asleep at this point. So cheers and Merry Christmas my brother!

You as well. Merry Christmas!

[moondog]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I think the best metaphor I can describe for his offensive design would be:

 

EB was given a Lego skyscraper set.

He said, "F this, Eric Bieniemy likes Pirate Ships" and used the pieces from said Lego set to build a ship.

Now he is wondering why his boat does not float all that great.

 

Just a criminal misuse of assets and inability or lack of desire to put his players in their best possible position to succeed.

The humble pie he is facing as a result was inevitable b/c you simply can't operate this way outside of college when you can have the overwhelming skill level advantage.

 

And that's before you get into the lack of adjustments to tailor your efforts to account for the strengths/weaknesses of opponents.

I take it you either received legos or got them for the kids for Christmas? Lmao if for the kids did they just immediately start building whatever they wanted instead of what it was made for? 😅

[illone]

11 hours ago, Hogs86 said:

_{Just about every good QB  Rookie or veteran will hit a bad patch at sometime or another.  Do you give up already on Howell usually you will see a big jump in year two. Quote from Jacoby Brissett: I hope Sam Howell leans on me to help him through this. “I told him ‘This is going to be the hardest part of your career right now. It’s going to feel like you’re in this by yourself. It’s snowballing. It’s one thing after another, it’s one thing after another,’” Brissett said at his postgame press conference. “But I know from being in this league, man, the good ones find a way to get to the other side. No matter how long it takes, how hard it is. You surround yourself with good people. I hope he leans on me as one of those good people that will help him get through this because I know I will.”}

 

 

Brissett is a good dude.

 

Always good to remember the human side to all this stuff.

[Est.1974]

Let’s get Jake Fromm off the PS for a couple of weeks. If we start Brissett I’ll be livid. None of us want an over influential owner moving forward, but these next 2 weeks should be written off. Get the instruction given Harris. Sit other players and take two losses.

[Wildbunny]

6 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Why not? They played it against the best offenses then and completely dismantled them. We are not talking about the 20's Ravens here. The 85' Bears defense is the best defense to ever step on a football field in history. And it isnt close.

They would get flagged for unneccessary roughness on every ****ing play nowadays...

[skinsfan66]

8 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Because the best offenses back then all used a fullback. The one team that beat them that year was the Dolphins because their base was three WRs and they got roasted for 38 points when their LB had to get out of the box. Buddy Ryan then went to the Eagles and always had trouble against the Redskins for the same reason.

The Redskins never used a fullback back at that time. 

[KDawg]

Guys… athletically the ‘85 Bears couldn’t hang with today’s offenses. They just couldn’t. They’d get absolutely shredded.

 

Having said that, if you drop the ‘85 Bears players into today and give them modern day training and such, yes, they’d be dominant.

 

But if we are talking the actual ‘85 Bears defense it wouldn’t even be a contest. They’d get smacked by most NFL teams. Not our team. But most of the others.

[mac8887]

11 hours ago, stoshuaj said:

🤷‍♂️, I was referring to your “lose the locker room” observation and subsequent smack downs.  In retrospect, don’t ya think that nugget was just a lil silly?

Not really if he had truly lost the locker room then they would have never had rallied in the second half of the rams and jets game. The only thing that shows some may have truly checked out was the Jonathan Allen interview saying he wouldn't mind being traded, that was very telling, but he does still seem to be playing hard. When I say lose the locker room I'm talking about something like the raiders situation where players are publicly criticizing the coach. I think Ron is to nice of a guy for that to happen. But it could happen if the players know the coach isn't putting them in the best position to win.

Edited December 26, 2023 by mac8887

[TheBlueIndian]

8 hours ago, illone said:

 

 

Brissett is a good dude.

 

Always good to remember the human side to all this stuff.

Outstanding !!!

 

If we run it back with Sam next year i would like to see Jacoby back as well

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

4 hours ago, skinsfan66 said:

The Redskins never used a fullback back at that time. 

Right. That’s why Buddy Ryan’s defense didn’t work against them.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[ntotoro]

I think we're beyond whatever Howell's ceiling is at this point, perceived or actual. He's beat up and may have to take a season or so to recover from this.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

The combination of EB’s offense and JDR’s defense has got to be the most predictable, vanilla combination that existed.

I know it’s popular now to bag on Sam and finalize his career as Minshew at best.  🤣.  But I’ll die on the hill that his downfall has much more  to do with everything around him than it does him.  That’s not because I have anything invested him personally, but from everything I’ve digested the entirety of the season from folks smarter than me that break down the tape. An OC’s primary job in developing a QB is to play to their strengths, and get them in a rhythm scheming easy throws, and good luck finding much of that at all the entirety of the season.  It also might help to come up with some level of run game.  There’s a reason that every week this team gets its ass kicked, every opposing defense makes note of how easy this offense is to defend.