The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[skinsfan66]

4 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

That’s literally the NFL, man. Same thing happened to Minshew in 2019 and that’s why I keep using him as an example. Do you remember Minshew Mania? The NFL QB carousel is jam packed with guys that had success, crashed out, and were quickly/“unfairly” replaced. That’s the business. Minshew was getting a ton of attention nationally but the Jags weren’t gonna give him another year when they had Lawrence, Tu’a, Herbert, etc available in the draft. Minshew road the bench, bounced around, and is currently having fun in Indy. 
 

Ironically enough, 2019 Minshew and 2023 Sam have almost the exact same QBR. 
 

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/sports/nfl/2021/08/28/minshew-mania-how-sixth-round-draft-pick-captured-citys-heart/5634790001/

3 Years of Lawrence and the Jags looks like it's another back to the drawling board?  They could draft another top QB in 1/2 years. The hype this year before the season was that he was making the jump (per coach), what happened? He is big, tuff has all the tools but he cannot hit a open WR down field to save his ass. Tua was just another QB without T.Hill. Herbert is hurt and in a little slump lately. Sam just needs to get to the right coach and fit, Maybe the LA Rams with the vet and coach? If not here. 

Edited December 27, 2023 by skinsfan66

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

58 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’ll just ignore the gigantic difference in QBR, EPA, etc 
 

One was a first overall pick. The other was picked in the 5th. It’s that simple. Yes one guy will get much more of a leash. Life isn’t fair. 
 

One guy ended up being benched by a coach that was trying to use him to save his job. The answers are right in front of your face. 

10 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

3 Years of Lawrence and the Jags looks like it's another back to the drawling board?  They could draft another top QB in 1/2 years. The hype this year before the season was that he was making the jump (per coach), what happened? He is big, tuff has all the tools but he cannot hit an open WR down field to save his ass. Tua was just another QB without T.Hill. Herbert is hurt and in a little slump lately. Sam just needs to get to the right coach and fit, Maybe the LA Rams with the vet and coach? If not here. 

That first line is ridiculous lol. Lawrence might not be a top QB but he’s definitely a good one. Jaguars are competing for their division and will likely be giving him a huge deal soon. 
 

Sam Howell will likely be a vet backup on a random team in the next 2 years. Let’s all relax a bit. 

Edited December 27, 2023 by BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

My point in posting that isn’t that Howell = Lawrence.  It’s not even that one guy gets way more rope because of where he was drafted.  I get all that.  It’s just that one dude has 3 full seasons and still leaves a lot to be desired and he’s got all the traits everyone clamors for.  He will be looking to get extended soon and likely up for the next record breaker.  I’ve watched him play enough to know that if his name wasn’t Trevor Lawrence, it’d be hilarious to think he might command a record setting contract.  Just interesting to see general consensus because a guy has all the traits, won a natty and got picked 1st.

[RWJ]

14 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

I’ll just ignore the gigantic difference in QBR, EPA, etc 
 

One was a first overall pick. The other was picked in the 5th. It’s that simple. Yes one guy will get much more of a leash. Life isn’t fair. 
 

One guy ended up being benched by a coach that was trying to use him to save his job. The answers are right in front of your face. 

That first line is ridiculous lol. Lawrence might not be a top QB but he’s definitely a good one. Jaguars are competing for their division and will likely be giving him a huge deal soon. 
 

Sam Howell will likely be a vet backup on a random team in the next 2 years. Let’s all relax a bit. 

Stats don't lie most of the time and not this time, IMO.  As mentioned, EB play calling OL that stinks and an inexperienced QB 1st full year in and a HC that has lost his way has ruined this young QBs career.  I agree.  Let him stay on the team for the next 2 years on the cheap and hopefully mend, physically and mentally and build our OL and let our new GM and HC find an OC that knows how to call a balanced NFL football game.  One Commander's OC who passes 65% to 75% in each game that has a running game available to him that might have opened up the passing game ain't to swift. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

My point in posting that isn’t that Howell = Lawrence.  It’s not even that one guy gets way more rope because of where he was drafted.  I get all that.  It’s just that one dude has 3 full seasons and still leaves a lot to be desired and he’s got all the traits everyone clamors for.  He will be looking to get extended soon and likely up for the next record breaker.  I’ve watched him play enough to know that if his name wasn’t Trevor Lawrence, it’d be hilarious to think he might command a record setting contract.  Just interesting to see general consensus because a guy has all the traits, won a natty and got picked 1st.

They won their division in 2022. They won a playoff game. He was pretty good. They started this year 8-3 and then he got hurt and they’ve declined since. They still have a decent shot at back to back division titles. He’s actually displaying the type of growth/ups and down that fans can actually get behind. He isn’t a finished product yet but there’s plenty to look at with him and believe in it long term. Not elite but Jags fans can at least talk themselves into him getting there and if not, they know he’s at least good. It’s not like that team is all that loaded either. They probably wasted that first overall pick last year in Walker. Ettiene is fine. Ridley is extremely overrated. Kirk is a good WR2. 

[skinsfan66]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He's been playing poorly but its not like he's under more duress of late compared to earlier this season.   He's just playing bad.

 

If this is the last note from Sam, IMO it ensures they go for a QB this off season.  Of course they won't say it publicly.  But it just about guarantees thats how it unfolds behind the scenes. 

 

Having said that, Ron capping off his tenure with a journeyman QB, trying to win a meaningless game to ruin draft position when they are eliminated from the playoffs -- fits him like a glove.  It's VERY Ron to admit defeat on his chosen QB and finish off the season with another QB. 

 

 

 

I think its clear its Brissett even without the tweet below.  If your starting QB is going to start next Sunday, you just say he is starting and Ron did not.

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, The Rook said:

 

Did you guys ever hear of the body-bag game?  Buddy coached that one for Philly.

Just saying ...

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

He also coached the Playoff game later that season against the Redskins were his team did not cross the 50 yard line till late in the 4th quarter and the game out of hand. What did he say to the reporter after the game, We got are A.... kicked today. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

They won their division in 2022. They won a playoff game. He was pretty good. They started this year 8-3 and then he got hurt and they’ve declined since. They still have a decent shot at back to back division titles. He’s actually displaying the type of growth/ups and down that fans can actually get behind. He isn’t a finished product yet but there’s plenty to look at with him and believe in it long term. Not elite but Jags fans can at least talk themselves into him getting there and if not, they know he’s at least good. It’s not like that team is all that loaded either. They probably wasted that first overall pick last year in Walker. Ettiene is fine. Ridley is extremely overrated. Kirk is a good WR2. 

All the accolades you listed are team accolades and they play in a 🗑️ division.  You are jaded by the fact that he’s Trevor Lawrence.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

16 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

All the accolades you listed are team accolades and they play in a 🗑️ division.  You are jaded by the fact that he’s Trevor Lawrence.

I usually like your posts but the Sam thing really has your analysis off kilter lol. 
 

There’s few stats that are kind to Sam at this point. He hasn’t played a good game in over a month. He has no pedigree. He’s tiny. He’s limited athletically relative to the NFL. He’s 5-11 as a starter. His offenses have scored 21+ points just 7 times. He’s been a sack magnet at every competitive level of his football career. He’s honestly lucky to even have started as many games as he has. He was benched TWICE by the only person in football crazy enough to anoint him as QB1 without a competition. And somehow he has been treated unfairly and comparing him to Gardner Minshew (who’s been better than Sam at everything since he was a rookie and was drafted just one round later mind you) is crazy. 
 

To be really honest, there’s no real reason to expect Sam to get much better. What is he doing is exactly what the NFL thought he would do. He’s a bad QB. Let’s not dance around it. Every QB shows flashes. Bad ones usually just don’t get that many games to play and when they do, they eventually get exposed. That is what is happening to Sam. We’re hanging out the Philly games and the Seattle game. The rest was pretty mid at best. Only ppl begging for more time are Commanders fans bc we just desperately want anyone to show a pulse at the position. 
 

But even wilder, Trevor Lawrence doesn’t get enough scrutiny for being a top 12 QB with a playoff win under his belt for the JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS with his best receivers being a guy that hadn’t played football in almost 2 years and Christian Kirk? 

Edited December 27, 2023 by BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

29 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

I usually like your posts but the Sam thing really has your analysis off kilter lol. 
 

There’s few stats that are kind to Sam at this point. He hasn’t played a good game in over a month. He has no pedigree. He’s tiny. He’s limited athletically relative to the NFL. He’s 5-11 as a starter. His offenses have scored 21+ points just 7 times. He’s been a sack magnet at every competitive level of his football career. He’s honestly lucky to even have started as many games as he has. He was benched TWICE by the only person in football crazy enough to anoint him as QB1 without a competition. And somehow he has been treated unfairly and comparing him to Gardner Minshew (who’s been better than Sam at everything since he was a rookie and was drafted just one round later mind you) is crazy. 
 

But even wilder, Trevor Lawrence doesn’t get enough scrutiny for being a top 12 QB with a playoff win under his belt for the JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS with his best receivers being a guy that hadn’t played football in almost 2 years and Christian Kirk? 

I really DGAF about Sam.  It could be <insert any guy here> and I’d find the final verdicts being made on them at this juncture to be ridiculous.  I’ve not said a word about being treated unfairly.  I just find how some of you guys come to your conclusions about players to be “off kilter”.  The goal posts move a lot and context is key, only when it fits the narrative you’ve already subscribed to.  
 

Nobody desires an elite QB more than I do.  Even if I think Sam never had a chance with this mediocre collection of staff and talent, the likelihood he’d ever be elite was always minimal anyways.  I just get a kick out of watching the hot takes adjust week to week and month to month.  At one time he was Derek Carr level, a month and a half later - he’s Minshew.  A guy who has started a total of 16 games.

 

Will be interesting as hell to debate the next guy and the name that QB comp rollercoaster week to week.

Edited December 27, 2023 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[RandyHolt]

Why is Rivera yanking Sam's chain? Saying he is the starter and then yanking him... is he trying to win to stiff our next GM? Why the **** is Rivera here again?

 

Rivera out of respect?? was allowed to slow walk the plank, and is bringing Sam down with him. 

Edited December 27, 2023 by RandyHolt

[skinsfan66]

23 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

I’ll just ignore the gigantic difference in QBR, EPA, etc 
 

One was a first overall pick. The other was picked in the 5th. It’s that simple. Yes one guy will get much more of a leash. Life isn’t fair. 
 

One guy ended up being benched by a coach that was trying to use him to save his job. The answers are right in front of your face. 

That first line is ridiculous lol. Lawrence might not be a top QB but he’s definitely a good one. Jaguars are competing for their division and will likely be giving him a huge deal soon. 
 

Sam Howell will likely be a vet backup on a random team in the next 2 years. Let’s all relax a bit. 

Lawrence will be a decent QB but that is it, played no better than his rookie year and holding back the team, have you watched him or just look at the the numbers this year? He has blown the season for them. Love no.10 on that list? Howell may well be a backup the rest of his career maybe a average starter too, I think LA. would be a good fit with a vet QB.  But all these QB's that keep getting posted and acting like they have done anything in the pro's like Lawerence? He is not a hit yet in his 3rd. season and is not worthy of it.  Tua,Herbert were the better pick's by a mile so far of the ones that were posted.  It is just a opinion about Trever and the draft is not always the answer. Maybe you do not keep wasting high draft picks on QB's that do not make it too. The team has waisted enough top picks on QB's.  

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

6 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

Lawrence will be a decent QB but that is it, played no better than his rookie year and holding back the team, have you watched him or just look at the the numbers this year? He has blown the season for them. Love no.10 on that list? Howell may well be a backup the rest of his career maybe a average starter too, I think LA. would be a good fit with a vet QB.  But all these QB's that keep getting posted and acting like they have done anything in the pro's like Lawerence? He is not a hit yet in his 3rd. season and is not worthy of it.  Tua,Herbert were the better pick's by a mile so far of the ones that were posted.  It is just a opinion about Trever and the draft is not always the answer. Maybe you do not keep wasting high draft picks on QB's that do not make it too. The team has waisted enough top picks on QB's.  

Lawrence is no better than he was his rookie year? Lol ok man. 
 

Did you even know they won a playoff game last year ? Or that they were 8-3 a month ago? 

[skinsfan66]

54 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

My point in posting that isn’t that Howell = Lawrence.  It’s not even that one guy gets way more rope because of where he was drafted.  I get all that.  It’s just that one dude has 3 full seasons and still leaves a lot to be desired and he’s got all the traits everyone clamors for.  He will be looking to get extended soon and likely up for the next record breaker.  I’ve watched him play enough to know that if his name wasn’t Trevor Lawrence, it’d be hilarious to think he might command a record setting contract.  Just interesting to see general consensus because a guy has all the traits, won a natty and got picked 1st.

That was my point too? In another couple of years you will have to pay him or go back to the draft too. He is still living off his great college career.  

[El Mexican]

8 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Gardner Minshew is a fine QB. That isn’t an insult. He’s just not worthy of being built around. Same with Sam at least in my opinion. Teams without direction will always need solid bridge/backup QBs like Minshew, Jameis, Colt, Heinicke, etc. And I’d bet a ton of money that if you went back and found a Bucs message board or a Browns one, you’d find folks giving similar arguments in defense of Jameis and Colt from back in the day. Sam’s story is not all that unique. A lot of middling/bad QBs got raw deals at various points. I know we think this is the worst situation in the NFL’s history but it’s not. It’s not a fair league. 

A lot of those old school LBs would be smoked in the modern NFL bc they wouldn’t be able to cover LBs or RBs. They’d be facing offenses that are comfortable throwing 40-50+ times a game. 

 

Yes, but the physcallity of those older defenses has never been repeated.

Even today speedy receivers that are punished by good LB start to avoid the middle of the field, just like the 80s and 90s teams built around the WCO.

[skinsfan66]

Just now, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Lawrence is no better than he was his rookie year? Lol ok man. 
 

Did you even know they won a playoff game last year ? Or that they were 8-3 a month ago? 

Have you watched their games this year, the last 5 he has over throne wide open teammates over and over ? And now they are 8/8 and not going back to the playoffs most likely? It's not like he does not have players around him. Also funny how a couple of month's can change someone's outlook. 

[Conn]

47 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Why is Rivera yanking Sam's chain? Saying he is the starter and then yanking him... is he trying to win to stiff our next GM? Why the **** is Rivera here again?

 

Rivera out of respect?? was allowed to slow walk the plank, and is bringing Sam down with him. 

My god you have a one-track mind 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

34 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

Have you watched their games this year, the last 5 he has over throne wide open teammates over and over ? And now they are 8/8 and not going back to the playoffs most likely? It's not like he does not have players around him. Also funny how a couple of month's can change someone's outlook. 

They’re 8-7 and control their own destiny. And honestly I’m embarrassed for myself that I’m sitting here caping for a Jaguars QB but he’s playing through a high ankle sprain. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I mean guys, Justin Fields is the example you want to use. He hasn’t done ****. Use him lol 

[Rufus T Firefly]

Just now, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

I mean guys, Justin Fields is the example you want to use. He hasn’t done ****. Use him lol 

Literally minutes before BFS did a 'cherry picked stats to make one QB look as good as another' post I saw the exact same thing online pretending Fields was as good as Lamar Jackson. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Ya’ll in here defending Trevor like Z defending the honor of Taylor Heinicke.  Cherry picked stats, nah those areal stats.  19 total turnovers to 23 total TDs.  

[samy316]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Ya’ll in here defending Trevor like Z defending the honor of Taylor Heinicke.  Cherry picked stats, nah those areal stats.  19 total turnovers to 23 total TDs.  

 

He's been hurt for a majority of the season.  His team can still win its division at 9-8 or 10-7.  He's won a playoff game already in his career (coming back from 27-0).  He might not have played like a Top 10 QB this year, but he certainly can still make a case to be one going forward.  Look at that team.  They whiffed HARD on their 1st Round pick in 2022 in drafting Walker.  Kirk is a B+ receiver, and Ridley is not living up to that #1 receiver option this year at all.  Etienne is a solid (but not exceptional) RB.  That offense is not adequate enough to be dominating teams.  Switch Lawrence's roster for Herbert's, and you'd see Lawrence put up excellent stats with that Chargers roster.  I would still take Lawrence over any QB's not named Mahommes, Burrow, Allen or Lamar.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Ya’ll in here defending Trevor like Z defending the honor of Taylor Heinicke.  Cherry picked stats, nah those areal stats.  19 total turnovers to 23 total TDs.  

You’ve spent the last month swearing we can’t judge a fifth round pick bc the team and coaching is bad. 
 

Which scenario sounds crazier ? 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

You’ve spent the last month swearing we can’t judge a fifth round pick bc the team and coaching is bad. 
 

Which scenario sounds crazier ? 

You have been heavily invested in Sam sucking since before any bullets flew, hence your victory laps the last few weeks.

 

I’ve never been heavy on him good or bad, and stand by the fact that this offense and coaching is awful.  That’s not my opinion based off stats or watching on Sundays, there’s plenty of analysis out there that supports my opinion.  

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

You have been heavily invested in Sam sucking since before any bullets flew, hence your victory laps the last few weeks.

 

I’ve never been heavy on him good or bad, and stand by the fact that this offense and coaching is awful.  That’s not my opinion based off stats or watching on Sundays, there’s plenty of analysis out there that supports my opinion.  

Yeah and a big chunk of the analysis involves the dude wearing 14. We can be honest now. The honeymoon is over. He is responsible. As is EB and Ron and Dan. Glad we can come to some sort of agreement. 
 

Now let’s start the argument about which QB should be drafted in April. We know you’ll go instantly to the projected 5th rounders lol jk 

Edited December 27, 2023 by BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93

[NickyJ]

We won't have to think too hard on whoever the next QB is. As long as he's from a big name college and picked in the first round, he can turn the ball over more times than he scores TDs and I'll still be over the moon. You can't get pedigree like that very easily.

Edited December 27, 2023 by NickyJ