The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I don’t think it says anything about Sam’s resilience to not play him moving forward.  He’s shown plenty of resilience this season.  He’s hit a wall and needs a hard reset.  I just don’t see how any good can come from starting him again.  Imagine starting him and practically being forced to sit him down for a third straight week.

 

Fromm is the answer.

[NickyJ]

I'm in the camp for starting Howell or Fromm. Brissett gives us our best chance to win, just by nature of being a 1 or 2 week wonder from the bench. Coaches coach to win, but it sucks that Ron can only win when he's fighting behind the dumpster at McDonalds on a January night.

[mac8887]

3 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

I'm in the camp for starting Howell or Fromm. Brissett gives us our best chance to win, just by nature of being a 1 or 2 week wonder from the bench. Coaches coach to win, but it sucks that Ron can only win when he's fighting behind the dumpster at McDonalds on a January night.

On top of that Jacoby is a legit nfl qb. Many teams would love to have him starting for them right now even some in the playoff race. He is by far the best qb we have and have had since Alex Smith pre injury.

Edited December 26, 2023 by mac8887

[clskinsfan]

I guess I am in the minority here. Sam Howell needs to start the last two games. The entire season was based on finding out what Howell is made of. Sitting him does nothing to evaluate that. I am like 99% sure a new GM is going to move on regardless. But he needs to see Sam for the entire season. 

[NickyJ]

6 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

On top of that Jacoby is a legit nfl qb. Many teams would love to have him starting for them right now even some in the playoff race. He is by far the best qb we have and have had since Alex Smith pre injury.

I respect Jacoby for always being a scrappy QB, but the man didn't pass over good offers from those playoff teams before he decided to sign with Ron and the Commies. I think you'd be disappointed seeing how Jacoby would play over a full season.

Edited December 26, 2023 by NickyJ

[mac8887]

1 minute ago, NickyJ said:

I respect Jacoby for always being a scrappy QB, but the man didn't pass over good offers from those playoff teams before he decided to sign with Ron and the Commies. I think you'd be disappointed seeing how Jacoby would play over a full season.

Didn't he play a full season last year and play pretty well? With the browns I believe?

[NickyJ]

4 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

Didn't he play a full season last year and play pretty well? With the browns I believe?

He went 4-7, throwing 12 TD to 6 INTs in 11 starts. If a QB wowed front offices with stats like that, I doubt he'd make a beeline to ride pine behind Ron's desperate attempt to build a dynasty around his 5th round QB that he picked the previous year.

Edited December 26, 2023 by NickyJ

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

4 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

Didn't he play a full season last year and play pretty well? With the browns I believe?

Yeah, he’s not bad. He’s not good enough to be a franchise QB though. Definitely a capable starter but you couldn’t just sit back and say we’ve got our guy moving forward for the next however many years.

[mac8887]

1 minute ago, NickyJ said:

He went 4-7, throwing 12 TD to 6 INTs in 11 starts. If a QB wowed front offices with stats like that, I doubt he'd make a beeline to ride pine behind Ron's desperate attempt to build a dynasty around his 5th round QB that he picked the previous year.

Nobody said he was great, I'm just saying he is a legit nfl qb who is better than Sam, taylor, Dwayne, Carson when we had him, case and maybe a hobbled Alex Smith. That and I believe he thought he'd have a chance to win the job in camp, and never really even had a chance to. 

2 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Yeah, he’s not bad. He’s not good enough to be a franchise QB though. Definitely a capable starter but you couldn’t just sit back and say we’ve got our guy moving forward for the next however many years.

Nobody said that. I'm saying if the main goal is to lose then we shouldn't have our best qb starting

[Est.1974]

57 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don’t think it says anything about Sam’s resilience to not play him moving forward.  He’s shown plenty of resilience this season.  He’s hit a wall and needs a hard reset.  I just don’t see how any good can come from starting him again.  Imagine starting him and practically being forced to sit him down for a third straight week.

 

Fromm is the answer.

Well I suggested Fromm as well. With Nowell as back-up. Hand the ball off, run the clock, get the Hell out of this season.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

I don’t want Jacoby starting… but he’s going to.

[KDawg]

Just now, Est.1974 said:

Well I suggested Fromm as well. With Nowell as back-up. Hand the ball off, run the clock, get the Hell out of this season.

Hand the what off now?

[NickyJ]

13 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

Nobody said he was great, I'm just saying he is a legit nfl qb who is better than Sam, taylor, Dwayne, Carson when we had him, case and maybe a hobbled Alex Smith. That and I believe he thought he'd have a chance to win the job in camp, and never really even had a chance to. 

Everybody knew that whichever journeyman QB got signed to the team, they wouldn't have a chance because Ron's future was tied to Howell's success. Ron broadcasted it at the end of the season and over the entire offseason. Brissett knew that, and signed anyway. He did that because he clearly didn't have better offers from teams that would give him a chance to start.

Howell and Brissett are both better than any QB we've had since a healthy Alex Smith. But whoever played QB this year was going to do it behind the worst offensive line we've ever fielded since before I began watching Redskins games as a child. I don't think Brissett over the course of the season would be the upgrade over Howell that you've been implying. None of the other front offices in the NFL thought so either, considering they let a legit NFL QB sign with Washington instead of giving him a job offer to do something other than be a backup to Ron's life preserver.

Edited December 26, 2023 by NickyJ

[Jumbo]

24 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

On top of that Jacoby is a legit nfl qb. Many teams would love to have him starting for them right now even some in the playoff race. He is by far the best qb we have and have had since Alex Smith pre injury.

 

Its interesting you chose to join this forum in Dec of all things given the state of the season.

 

And you certainly jump in with both feet. 😛

 

I haven't checked yet whether you're a dupe acct  but you sure read like you're here to work out some pressing Sam Howell issues. 😄 

 

Were you maybe a hiver in a previous incarnation? 😁 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

I guess I am in the minority here. Sam Howell needs to start the last two games. The entire season was based on finding out what Howell is made of. Sitting him does nothing to evaluate that. I am like 99% sure a new GM is going to move on regardless. But he needs to see Sam for the entire season. 

 

I am with you on that.

 

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don’t think it says anything about Sam’s resilience to not play him moving forward.  He’s shown plenty of resilience this season.  He’s hit a wall and needs a hard reset.  I just don’t see how any good can come from starting him again.  Imagine starting him and practically being forced to sit him down for a third straight week.

 

Fromm is the answer.

 

I don't think it defacto says anything about Sam's resiliency either.

 

My point on it is it makes Rivera fawning on and on about that point specifically feel hollow from his point of view.  Ditto his celebrating that he is the dude who finally cracked the code and found the team their franchise QB.

 

For me personally, I don't care.  I want a QB in this draft.

[Jumbo]

10 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I don’t want Jacoby starting… but he’s going to.

 

It would be a typical Rivera bad decision.

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't think it defacto says anything about Sam's resiliency either.

 

My point on it is it makes Rivera fawning on and on about that point specifically feel hollow from his point of view.  Ditto his celebrating that he is the dude who finally cracked the code and found the team their franchise QB.

No doubt, I honestly can’t think of any coach including Zorn that has left the place in worse shape.

 

Zorn never belonged in his position and had the drama of dealing with angered, young Dan Snyder and Vinny.  Ron has sabotaged himself in so many ways, he now has more self inflicted wounds than losses.

[mac8887]

56 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

Its interesting you chose to join this forum in Dec of all things given the state of the season.

 

And you certainly jump in with both feet. 😛

 

I haven't checked yet whether you're a dupe acct  but you sure read like you're here to work out some pressing Sam Howell issues. 😄 

 

Were you maybe a hiver in a previous incarnation? 😁 

 

 

1st account. I've been reading this board since before rg3, I think I started reading during john beck or sexy rexy. But have been reading in season and off season since rg3 faithfully. I just really have hope now with the new owner and didn't understand the howell love. Especially after the second eagles game, other than a pretty good showing against Seattle, that last eagles game was his last good game and nowadays that doesn't even seem that impressive, everyone scores in Philly, they pound that philly d even harder at home. But even I have to admit I thought he was him after the first eagles game. Looking back the bills game should have raised some red flags. People talk him up for the patriots game but in that game he threw one of the worst picks I've ever seen at the worst time to throw a pick in the worse place. And towards the end here he has been the worst qb in the league. I just want to win, I became a true fan in 1993, I was to young to remember the last superbowl. I've seen every other team win 11+ games twice while my fondest season was a 1 and done in 2012 with rg3. I can't force myself to get behind poor qb play. I want this new owner to build a winner, a new fo and coaching staff is a good start, but games are won on the field, and the most important player in today's NFL is the qb.

Edited December 27, 2023 by mac8887

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

But even I have to admit I thought he was him after the first eagles game. Looking back the bills game should have raised some red flags.

You talk about him like he’s a veteran.

 

Be interesting to see how long you give the new guy.

[mac8887]

1 hour ago, NickyJ said:

Everybody knew that whichever journeyman QB got signed to the team, they wouldn't have a chance because Ron's future was tied to Howell's success. Ron broadcasted it at the end of the season and over the entire offseason. Brissett knew that, and signed anyway. He did that because he clearly didn't have better offers from teams that would give him a chance to start.

Howell and Brissett are both better than any QB we've had since a healthy Alex Smith. But whoever played QB this year was going to do it behind the worst offensive line we've ever fielded since before I began watching Redskins games as a child. I don't think Brissett over the course of the season would be the upgrade over Howell that you've been implying. None of the other front offices in the NFL thought so either, considering they let a legit NFL QB sign with Washington instead of giving him a job offer to do something other than be a backup to Ron's life preserver.

I'm not so sure howell is even as close to as good as you think he is. Taylor never had a stretch of games this bad, and we won with hobbled Alex, he is probably better than haskins (nearly 100% sure), but even Dwayne strung together a couple of good games. Wentz was trash here but he definitely was better than howell ever was when he lead Philly to the playoffs. Case wasn't very good but the offense never really looked anemic for a 4 game stretch like it has with sam.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

[mac8887]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

You talk about him like he’s a veteran.

 

Be interesting to see how long you give the new guy.

I'll support a qb longer if he has elite traits, or is a first rounder and most 1st round qbs have elite traits. I clung to hope with rg3 longer than most because I saw what he could do, I personally believe if he never got hurt we could've won the whole thing. The first rounder more so because you have more invested, and you have the 5th year option  so even if it does take the qb an extra year to develop you still have the 5th year pretty cheap. If we were to run it back with sam and he is bad then that's awful, next years qb class isn't as good and the new ownership will have fully come down with loseritis which leads to panic. If he becomes slightly below average, you only have one more year cheap and then your paying a bottom 15 qb Kyle murray/Daniel Jones money to a qb that will never carry the team to more wins above replacement and will need lots of luck and playmakers just to try to be a perennial contender, and once the playmakers contract expires, you can't afford them and you need even more luck in the draft to surround him with more. And quite frankly he hasn't shown me anything to suggest that he is capable to be a top 15 qb year in year out let alone for 1 season.

6 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

The entire leagues fo saw something in one of these guys that they didn't see in the other and valued him to be worth sticking with. The others coach and fo decided they had seen enough before the season ended

[Rufus T Firefly]

10 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Yawn. First off, those turnover numbers on Lawrence are wrong. Secondly, the one who hasn't been benched is probably the one who is taking his team to the playoffs for the second straight year. 

 

Also: 

 

Passer rating/QBR

Lawrence 89.1/58.0

Howell 80.5/43.3

[CapsSkins]

Start Brissett against SF, who will beat us regardless, and Fromm against Dallas.

[NickyJ]

32 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Yawn. First off, those turnover numbers on Lawrence are wrong. Secondly, the one who hasn't been benched is probably the one who is taking his team to the playoffs for the second straight year. 

 

Also: 

 

Passer rating/QBR

Lawrence 89.1/58.0

Howell 80.5/43.3

The turnovers for Lawrence are right. 12 interceptions, 7 fumbles lost.

 

We could go with Lawrence's first year as a starter, though. 17 interceptions, 5 fumbles lost. His head coach was Urban Meyer, though, so that probably hurts him a bit.

 

Let's be generous and go with comparing the first year starter vs. the third year starter's stats instead. After all, the coaches are more comparable. I'm sure Ron can coach a team as well as Don Pederson can.

Edited December 27, 2023 by NickyJ