The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[zCommander]

35 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I have to admit it's kind of funny how you intentionally threw out a grenade of TH silliness while simultaneously trying to pretend like you're not the one who threw it or that you didn't know it was a grenade, with the "You all can debate on that" schtick.

 

 

Ron said the OL hugged him. 

Ron threw the grenade. All I said was is it worth thinking if it is live or a dud. I also said I really don't know what does that even mean  lol

They hugged him and welcomed him back as the starter. I am not even sure why Ron had to go into details on that one. He could have just simply said yeah they were glad for him and leave it at that. That was the line I was alluding to.

 

But you can roll with whatever schtick you feel more comfortable with.

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by zCommander

[mistertim]

31 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Ron said the OL hugged him. 

Ron threw the grenade. All I said was is it worth thinking if it is live or a dud. I also said I really don't know what does that even mean  lol

They hugged him and welcomed him back as the starter. I am not even sure why Ron had to go into details on that one. He could have just simply said yeah they were glad for him and leave it at that. That was the line I was alluding to.

 

But you can roll with whatever schtick you feel more comfortable with.

 

 

Ron gave details on it because he's supporting the QB who's currently his starter, like pretty much any decent coach would do. The OL is probably doing the same for a teammate. I don't think there's anything to even read into. It's all pretty straightforward unless you (general you, not you specifically) really want to find some "hidden" meaning in it.

[Mrshadow008]

 

*ducks for cover 

[ThomasRoane]

16 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

I am shirley not the only to remember our OL starting blocking much better for Kirk than RG3. From the first snap. Hive Five!

 

Yep.  

 

The OLine are hugging TH because he will take some of the pressure off them.  Granted, a lot of it was warranted.  But it's easier to block when you don't have the pressure of having to be perfect almost every play.  TH doesn't have the height or arm strength you need for a franchise QB but he is very adept at working in a dirty pocket.  In the Free Agency error that's damned important.  Even the old man TB (and GOAT) can slide and climb a bit to evade pressure once in a while.  Carson was just a tackling dummy back there.  I don't think he's ever going to get back to where he was years ago.  After TH the next man up has to be Howell.  

Edited October 20, 2022 by ThomasRoane

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

 

*ducks for cover 

This whole quote is absurd.

 

Heinicke doesn’t have as high of a floor? Have I been watching the same football? Wentz’ floor is about as low of a floor as you can get. At his worst he’s absolutely terrible. 
 

Saying Heinicke doesn’t have that high of a floor is scary.

 

As far as TH having a higher ceiling?

 

313, 4/2

337, 3/1

359, 2/1

 

In six games. 10 TD, 6 INT.

Heinicke’s best game last year was 34/46 for 336 2/1. It’s the only game he passed for 300 yards. He only threw for 3 TDs twice for the entire season.

 

He doesn’t have a higher ceiling. He has the ability to get out of trouble a little bit with his legs if he uses them, and to disrupt defensive gameplans. He has the ability to command (pun intended) the offense and make some plays and keep some plays alive. 
 

I’d argue the opposite of that person who said the above. He has a higher floor but lower ceiling. 

 

 

 

 

[Chris 44]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

This whole quote is absurd.

 

Heinicke doesn’t have as high of a floor? Have I been watching the same football? Wentz’ floor is about as low of a floor as you can get. At his worst he’s absolutely terrible. 
 

Saying Heinicke doesn’t have that high of a floor is scary.

 

As far as TH having a higher ceiling?

 

313, 4/2

337, 3/1

359, 2/1

 

In six games. 10 TD, 6 INT.

Heinicke’s best game last year was 34/46 for 336 2/1. It’s the only game he passed for 300 yards. He only threw for 3 TDs twice for the entire season.

 

He doesn’t have a higher ceiling. He has the ability to get out of trouble a little bit with his legs if he uses them, and to disrupt defensive gameplans. He has the ability to command (pun intended) the offense and make some plays and keep some plays alive. 
 

I’d argue the opposite of that person who said the above. He has a higher floor but lower ceiling. 

 

 

 

 

It does seem like he has it ass backwards

[justice98]

22 minutes ago, KDawg said:

This whole quote is absurd.

 

Heinicke doesn’t have as high of a floor? Have I been watching the same football? Wentz’ floor is about as low of a floor as you can get. At his worst he’s absolutely terrible. 
 

Saying Heinicke doesn’t have that high of a floor is scary.

 

As far as TH having a higher ceiling?

 

313, 4/2

337, 3/1

359, 2/1

 

In six games. 10 TD, 6 INT.

Heinicke’s best game last year was 34/46 for 336 2/1. It’s the only game he passed for 300 yards. He only threw for 3 TDs twice for the entire season.

 

He doesn’t have a higher ceiling. He has the ability to get out of trouble a little bit with his legs if he uses them, and to disrupt defensive gameplans. He has the ability to command (pun intended) the offense and make some plays and keep some plays alive. 
 

I’d argue the opposite of that person who said the above. He has a higher floor but lower ceiling. 

 

Wentz with last year's weapons probably is doing something similar.  We forget how weak they were, especially by the end of the season when you were getting a healthy dose of Brown, Sims, and Carter as your 2-4 WRs, and no Samuel, Thomas, or McKissic either.  

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, justice98 said:

 

Wentz with last year's weapons probably is doing something similar.  We forget how weak they were, especially by the end of the season when you were getting a healthy dose of Brown, Sims, and Carter as your 2-4 WRs, and no Samuel, Thomas, or McKissic either.  

If we’re playing the equalizing game… Wentz with last year’s OL probably is protected better and plays better.

[Cooleyfan1993]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

If we’re playing the equalizing game… Wentz with last year’s OL probably is protected better and plays better.

[wit33]

 

50 minutes ago, KDawg said:

This whole quote is absurd.

 

Heinicke doesn’t have as high of a floor? Have I been watching the same football? Wentz’ floor is about as low of a floor as you can get. At his worst he’s absolutely terrible. 
 

Saying Heinicke doesn’t have that high of a floor is scary.

 

As far as TH having a higher ceiling?

 

313, 4/2

337, 3/1

359, 2/1

 

In six games. 10 TD, 6 INT.

Heinicke’s best game last year was 34/46 for 336 2/1. It’s the only game he passed for 300 yards. He only threw for 3 TDs twice for the entire season.

 

He doesn’t have a higher ceiling. He has the ability to get out of trouble a little bit with his legs if he uses them, and to disrupt defensive gameplans. He has the ability to command (pun intended) the offense and make some plays and keep some plays alive. 
 

I’d argue the opposite of that person who said the above. He has a higher floor but lower ceiling.

 

Maybe “higher ceiling” take wasn’t just stat driven. The offense has lacked rhythm, flow, and identity with Wentz under center. This is okay if you’re consistently making big plays or using legs to keep chains moving, but this no longer is present in his game. 
 

I expect to see a higher “team offense ceiling” (admittedly moving the goal post a bit) with Heineke in the line up. Pound the ball and convert 3rd and shorts. Comparing Heineke last year to Wentz these past 6 games leans me towards Heineke carrying that mission out at a higher level. 
 

Admittedly, I’m all out on a QB if he can’t create and extend plays, so completely bias. With that said, I posted yesterday, Heineke ran for 39 total yards over the last 6 games… disgusting and why I grew extremely tired of watching him. Watching a limited QB play it safe was nauseating and perplexing all at once. 

Edited October 20, 2022 by wit33

[Mrshadow008]

49 minutes ago, KDawg said:

This whole quote is absurd.

 

Heinicke doesn’t have as high of a floor? Have I been watching the same football? Wentz’ floor is about as low of a floor as you can get. At his worst he’s absolutely terrible. 
 

Saying Heinicke doesn’t have that high of a floor is scary.

 

As far as TH having a higher ceiling?

 

313, 4/2

337, 3/1

359, 2/1

 

In six games. 10 TD, 6 INT.

Heinicke’s best game last year was 34/46 for 336 2/1. It’s the only game he passed for 300 yards. He only threw for 3 TDs twice for the entire season.

 

He doesn’t have a higher ceiling. He has the ability to get out of trouble a little bit with his legs if he uses them, and to disrupt defensive gameplans. He has the ability to command (pun intended) the offense and make some plays and keep some plays alive. 
 

I’d argue the opposite of that person who said the above. He has a higher floor but lower ceiling. 

 

 

 

 

I’m just the messenger lol I don’t agree with the quote. If he were talking about entire offense based off THs knowledge of the O plus mobility behind this line I could maybe see that but if you’re talking strictly as players yeah that seems backwards. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, wit33 said:

 

Maybe “higher ceiling” take wasn’t just stat driven. The offense has lacked rhythm, flow, and identity with Wentz under center. This is okay if you’re consistently making big plays or using legs to keep chains moving, but this no longer is present in his game. 
 

I expect to see a higher “team offense ceiling” (admittedly moving the goal post a bit) with Heineke in the line up. Pound the ball and convert 3rd and shorts. Comparing Heineke last year to Wentz these past 6 games leans me towards Heineke carrying that mission out at a higher level. 
 

Admittedly, I’m all out on a QB if he can’t create and extend plays, so completely bias. With that said, I posted yesterday, Heineke ran for 39 total yards over the last 6 games… disgusting and why I grew extremely tired of watching him. Watching a limited QB play it safe was nauseating and perplexing all at once. 

Higher ceiling doesn’t have to be stat driven. The stats I posted show a guy who can make plays in the air (Wentz) and a guy who can’t (Heinicke).

[TradeTheBeal!]

HineyHiney moves chains.

 

‘That’s the ceiling, that’s the moxie.  And it’s kinda fun sometimes.

[FootballZombie]

Oh boy. I'm giddy w/ excitement for the prospects of our O.

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by FootballZombie

[mistertim]

33 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Maybe “higher ceiling” take wasn’t just stat driven. The offense has lacked rhythm, flow, and identity with Wentz under center. This is okay if you’re consistently making big plays or using legs to keep chains moving, but this no longer is present in his game. 
 

I expect to see a higher “team offense ceiling” (admittedly moving the goal post a bit) with Heineke in the line up. Pound the ball and convert 3rd and shorts. Comparing Heineke last year to Wentz these past 6 games leans me towards Heineke carrying that mission out at a higher level. 
 

Admittedly, I’m all out on a QB if he can’t create and extend plays, so completely bias. With that said, I posted yesterday, Heineke ran for 39 total yards over the last 6 games… disgusting and why I grew extremely tired of watching him. Watching a limited QB play it safe was nauseating and perplexing all at once. 

 

How are we going to suddenly start pounding the ball now? Our OL sucks. They haven't been able to do much in the run blocking game so far, why would they suddenly do better with a weak armed QB behind center, which will allow defenses to stack the box even more?

[wit33]

20 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

How are we going to suddenly start pounding the ball now?
 

 

I don’t break down film or rewatch games, so can’t go to in depth with the Oline, but a big believer in establishing an identity and how that can help weaker players. It seems with the Oline getting hit with injuries and a lack of confidence in Wentz, Ron seems focused on becoming run dominant. To do this, you need a dual threat QB or a QB who can convert 3rd downs. Heineke has proven to do this at a solid level for multiple consecutive games. 
 

20 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Our OL sucks. They haven't been able to do much in the run blocking game so far, why would they suddenly do better with a weak armed QB behind center, which will allow defenses to stack the box even more?

 

It’s an identity thing for me. Establishing a run first identity helps your Oline a great deal. I have decent level of trust in Heineke managing a ceiling 7 or 8 type run first offense. 
 

In no way am I saying this leads to contender status, but it can separate a team from the bottom 3rd of the league and compete with teams 6-20. 
 

44 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

Oh boy. I'm giddy w/ excitement for the prospects of our O.

 

If Heineke of old returns, him running lowering shoulders and diving for pylons… he just may threaten that low ceiling lol. 
 

Not likely though. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

In case it wasn't posted...should be set up to start around the point where they talk about Heinicke...

 

 

 

[Warhead36]

I think people are forgetting just how terrible our passing game was last year for like the last 11 games or so. 

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

I think people are forgetting just how terrible our passing game was last year for like the last 11 games or so. 

 

Something something...MOXIE!

[SkinsFTW]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

I think people are forgetting just how terrible our passing game was last year for like the last 11 games or so. 

 

8, 10, 17, 12.

 

That's how many points the team has scored the past 4 weeks. And some of those weren't even the offense scoring. They're averaging about 10 points a game. 

 

You just can't get much worse than the Wince "offense". Heineken might not be better but at this point you're just comparing turd piles. 

 

 

 

[NoCalMike]

Heinicke at QB is basically a "Possession WR" he can work enough magic to move the chains consistently between the 30 yard lines, but once you get into the tighter spaces where you really have to rifle that ball into guys that are semi-covered, he just flat out struggles.  Hopefully the run game is ready to be bruising in the red zone and maybe Curtis Samuel is ready to take a couple slants to the house, because while I think we will see the offense moving a little better with Heinicke, I don't anticipate much more scoring. 

[RandyHolt]

Maybe I am missing them refreshing ES and my failtasy team but I don't recall seeing very many slants in the Turner offense. In fact I cant name the most commonly used pass play. What is the staple pass play of our offense? 

 

We almost cannot score less so I look for a high flying barn burner vs GB. 17-14. I want to see cheese heads fly like seat cushions. 

Edited October 21, 2022 by RandyHolt

[Califan007 The Constipated]

4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I think people are forgetting just how terrible our passing game was last year for like the last 11 games or so. 

 

The 4-game win streak occurred during those last 11 or so games...the passing stats were:

 

77% completion rate

220 yds per game

7.4 ypa

7 TDs

2 INTs

 

I'll take that over the next 4 weeks until Wentz returns. Doubt it leads to 4 straight wins, but it would be miles better than the passing stats of the last 4 games:

 

60% completion rate

210 yds per game

5.8 ypa

3 TDs

3 INTs

[dc1]

21 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

Maybe “higher ceiling” take wasn’t just stat driven. The offense has lacked rhythm, flow, and identity with Wentz under center. This is okay if you’re consistently making big plays or using legs to keep chains moving, but this no longer is present in his game. 
 

I expect to see a higher “team offense ceiling” (admittedly moving the goal post a bit) with Heineke in the line up. Pound the ball and convert 3rd and shorts. Comparing Heineke last year to Wentz these past 6 games leans me towards Heineke carrying that mission out at a higher level. 
 

Admittedly, I’m all out on a QB if he can’t create and extend plays, so completely bias. With that said, I posted yesterday, Heineke ran for 39 total yards over the last 6 games… disgusting and why I grew extremely tired of watching him. Watching a limited QB play it safe was nauseating and perplexing all at once. 

I think he was pretty beat up during that period, but absolutely agree with your larger point.

18 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I think people are forgetting just how terrible our passing game was last year for like the last 11 games or so. 

Not thinking about it.

Don't want to hear it.

 

All I need, at this moment, is to believe in The Legend that is to come.  

 

Talk to me after an L, when and "if" it happens; I'll be rational then.

[Simmsy]

I'm not ready to kick Wentz to the curb yet, but he can't be allowed to finish the season...he can't be allowed to get 70% of the snaps, I should say. I'm not opposed to bringing him back next year on a one year "show me" (and cheaper) contract, but I think the injury was a blessing. I'm not blaming the offensive woes entirely on him, but other than some flashes, he's been terrible. We were told his best characteristic was the deep ball, we were told he wasn't going to ignore the easy layups and we were told he wasn't going to hold the ball too long. All of those have been excruciatingly wrong. Yeah, he's got an arm, but that only gets you MAYBE one big play a game, or every other game. However, he can't even hit that, add to that fact that he not only doesn't take the layup, but can't even make the layup...the injury is a blessing.

 

I'm not a TH apologist, but he can do the short, quick passes all day and with our awesome receiving corp, you HAVE to give them the ball. 

 

The only thing that makes me feel better is that all of the veteran QBs that we were going after and switched teams all look terrible. Maybe switching to a new system isn't so easy?