The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[HigSkin]

 

[NoCalMike]

The 49ers beat Dallas largely because their defense shut down one of the premier offenses in the NFL.   That game was closer than it should have been because of some of the throws Jimmy G missed to wide open targets.   Jimmy G is an upgrade over Heinicke sure, but who  isn't at this point? If our standard is "just sign someone better than TH" that opens the door to a lot of potential QBs.   I could live with Jimmy G as the 2022 starter as long as there was still a firm plan in place simultaneously for a long term solution. 

[skinny21]

2 hours ago, Zim489 said:

I think you have to look at players. We just dont have the top end talent to compete with some of these other teams. Yes the unit need to be at least decent but it cant all be b- players across a grouping. Give me an A plus player with a d player next to him.

Absolutely you have to look at players individually, I was just making the point that in terms of units, you could argue they’re mostly pretty good to good.

 

I think you can at least make the argument that:

Corners: Fuller is an A (as I said, arguably)

Safeties: Curl is an A (ditto)

Receivers: McLaurin is an A

Dline: Allen is an A and Sweat/Young certainly have that potential

Oline: Roullier is quite possibly an A, and since Leno, Cosmi and Flowers were all excellent at either pass block or run block win rate, they’re borderline A’s as well.  Oline is also more about cohesion and the weakest link, so might be an exception to your A+ with a D players next to them.

 

If you’re purely looking at A+ level guys, then it gets tougher.  Probably at most you’d look at Terry, Allen and Way as possibly fitting in that echelon.  There’s a chance Cosmi, Young and Sweat get to that level, but they don’t belong there as of yet.

 

It’s all about the qb though.  With a decent one, we’re likely in contention for the playoffs, add a good one and (IMO) we could very well make a run next year (I doubt we manage to land a good one though).  

[Est.1974]

25 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

You have to get a bridge qb because Heini is a bridge to nowhere. You also draft a qb with #11 or trade back up to get a lower first round pick and get a qb.

Oh I’m sure that is on the cards. Most likely scenario being Trubisky, I could see BPA at #11 then a jump back into the first for a QB. 

[Darth Tater]

14 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Zac was going into the season on the hot seat. What a way to get off it.

Bill Belichick was considered by some "insiders" to be on the hot-seat as late as early November of 2001.

[Est.1974]

7 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

Wow that’s out the box thinking. He’s got that one well rehearsed...

 

In all seriousness, looks to me like it’s more that the thumb looking in the wrong direction. May be a case of seeing past the pure measurable to simply being clear in your own mind the guy can grip that ball as you’d like in the pros.

[Voice_of_Reason]

18 hours ago, mh86 said:

Yes because we know the bengals were actively shopping that pick.

There was a greater chance of me having a threesome with Mary Mouser and Peyton List than the Bengals trading that pick.  (And if you haven't seen Cobra Kai, what the hell are you waiting for?)

[KDawg]

16 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Wow that’s out the box thinking. He’s got that one well rehearsed...

 

In all seriousness, looks to me like it’s more that the thumb looking in the wrong direction. May be a case of seeing past the pure measurable to simply being clear in your own mind the guy can grip that ball as you’d like in the pros.

Honestly that's the only thing that anyone cares about. I could give a rat's behind how big has hands are... Can he hold a ball, deliver it and when his arm is hacked at how easily does the ball come out?

 

If he can do those things his stock improves in my book. 

[Redskins 2021]

I saw a couple different mock drafts have us taking guy from Mississippi. 

[London Kev]

 

1 hour ago, actorguy1 said:

No hand measurement for Pickett.

 

He could have worn his gloves before they measured.

 

 

[Fan since a Fetus]

So many negative people around making assumptions instead of wanting info. Be more inquisitive and less judge mental

 

 

Instead, per NFL Network's Tom Pelissero, Pickett will wait until March's NFL Scouting Combine to be measured because of a double-jointed thumb. Pickett will do hand exercises in the coming weeks in order to develop a more accurate measurement when the combine convenes in Indianapolis.

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/double-jointed-pittsburgh-qb-kenny-pickett-delays-hand-size-measurement-until-nf

 

 

i came late on this I see.

Edited January 31, 2022 by Fan since a Fetus

[MrJL]

1 hour ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Why does beating Dallas a season ago when they didn’t have a QB matter? Feels like focusing on technical minutiae for no reason, just to argue. The point is that without a QB we can’t compete with the better teams in a larger sample size. Not that we’ll never upset better teams here and there. 

 

we didn't upset them, we beat them pretty thoroughly

[CjSuAvE22]

1 minute ago, MrJL said:

 

we didn't upset them, we beat them pretty thoroughly

And they destroyed us this year...after 30 years of actively watching washington football the small wins here and there arent making up for the jacka..ery that goes on sadly the name change is taking a lot away from me it just doesnt feel the same Thinking about cheering another mascot i hope the feeling goes away, maybe having a QB that can compete will fix the feeling quicker.... 

[SpacePenguin]

59 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

 

 

If you ever wanted to know how to make someone look like a cult leader, this is it. They even have the soft heavenly lighting.

 

All bask in the glory of the all knowing Tiny Hands Kenneth, and know of his works.

 

Just realized....this is our backup QB of the future for sure....he already has a cult

Edited January 31, 2022 by SpacePenguin

[Est.1974]

Sounds like Pickett is in for a fun February.....

 

Look, it’s a bit bizarre that isn’t it? I mean, he hasn’t just become double jointed has he? Maybe do those exercises earlier ? Talk about making the whole deal a slightly bigger deal.

 

Just say, hey, measure my hands, double jointed part and all. I will tell you now, they are oddly shaped and somewhat small. Now give me a ball and I’ll throw it for you. I’m good at that.

[Koolblue13]

15 minutes ago, Fan since a Fetus said:

So many negative people around making assumptions instead of wanting info. Be more inquisitive and less judge mental

 

 

Instead, per NFL Network's Tom Pelissero, Pickett will wait until March's NFL Scouting Combine to be measured because of a double-jointed thumb. Pickett will do hand exercises in the coming weeks in order to develop a more accurate measurement when the combine convenes in Indianapolis.

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/double-jointed-pittsburgh-qb-kenny-pickett-delays-hand-size-measurement-until-nf

 

 

i came late on this I see.

Judgemental is one word.

[NickyJ]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Judgemental is one word.

You're being judg em ental about his spelling.

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Sounds like Pickett is in for a fun February.....

 

Look, it’s a bit bizarre that isn’t it? I mean, he hasn’t just become double jointed has he? Maybe do those exercises earlier ? Talk about making the whole deal a slightly bigger deal.

 

Just say, hey, measure my hands, double jointed part and all. I will tell you now, they are oddly shaped and somewhat small. Now give me a ball and I’ll throw it for you. I’m good at that.

Yeah, the questions really are:

 

1. can he accurately throw an NFL football?

2. can he hold onto said NFL football when (insert your favorite pass rusher here) Aaron Donald is karate chopping his arm to try and get the ball out?

 

If the answer to those questions is "really well" and "Yes" then I really don't give a crap about anything else. If he has to wear 2 gloves to make that happen, I don't care about that either.  

 

But if the answer to the questions is:

1. Yeah, but not with enough velocity/accuracy

2. That's going to be tough

 

Then it's a hard pass, and I don't care if he had Shaquille O'Neil sized hands.  

 

 

[HoggLife]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

 

Very smart move. It gives him more time to grow out his hands. 

[Silvernon]

1 hour ago, Chris 44 said:

If assuming he elected not to have his hand measured, then that to me is just telegraphing the fact that he has small hands. It is what it is, show what you can do on the field with an NFL size ball and not draw further attention to it. Seems like a bad decision to me if he elected not to have a hand measurement taken.

I don't know.

Everyone who wants to know will know based off interviews and workouts. 

 

But yeah, his in ship is sinking fast. 

[Chris 44]

1 minute ago, Silvernon said:

I don't know.

Everyone who wants to know will know based off interviews and workouts. 

 

But yeah, his in ship is sinking fast. 

Thats my point, in the end none of this matters if he can show that it is not an issue. Just pointing out that he is making it a bigger issue than it might be by not getting measured...but according to the video above he actually did address it. But again, none of this matters if he can show that it is a non issue on the field.

[Voice_of_Reason]

So, I have a few thoughts from the last few days, and discussions going on here about this and that, and I thought I would just lay them out

 

1. If there was ever an example of what a top-flight QB can do to your organization, you have to look no further than the Bengals.  They were the worst team in football 2 years ago, the same year we drafted Chase Young.  In 2 years, they are in the SB.  Is it because they built the defense, or signed other players, or whatever?  NO.  Actually, the answer is HELL NO.  

 

They got a franchise QB, they mentored him well, he even had a torn ACL setback, and he still came back and played at an extremely high level.

 

There can be no more "let's ride it out with random guy A or B and build the team, and look for "The Answer" when we have a good roster.

 

The roster is good enough.  Wilson/Rodgers/Burrow/Mahomes/Allen with this roster as currently constructed wins 11-13 games.  That's the difference having one of those guys makes.

 

Anybody who says, "yeah, if we just get a MLB and a WR, Taylor Heineke can hold the fort down" is kidding themselves.  He can't.  It's pointless.  That's no longer how you build teams in the NFL.  Go get the best guy you can get and take as good a shot at it as you can.

 

Enough of this silly "roster building" and "build it the right way" nonsense.  

 

2. HOWEVER, even if you have a Really Good QB, they can still fail if the organization fails them.  See Matt Stafford.  He is on a suck organization, he doesn't win playoff games. He goes to the Rams, he's in the SB.  

 

Now, imagine how absolutely putrid some of those Detroit teams would have been if he WASN'T there.  He's a top 10 QB.  

 

We have a better roster right now than a lot of the teams he played on.  If he had come here, we would not have won12 games.  But we probably would have won 10 or 11.  Yes, he is THAT much better than TH.  

 

If a "Tier 2" QB is as good as you can get, then go for it.  

 

3. Nobody wants Jimmy G.  Literally I have not seen one poster here saying, "God, we'd be a Superbowl contender if we got Jimmy G."

    Nobody wants Mitch.  Literally I have not seen one poster here saying, "God, we'd be a Superbowl contender if we got Mitch."  

 

However, those might the guys (in addition to somebody in the draft) who are available.  I happen to think DC is going to be a distant second to Denver for Rodgers.  We can offer him anything he wants including Davante Adams.  So can Denver.  That's about the list.  So...  We will offer it.  He will choose Denver.  I think there's a slight chance of getting Wilson.  But that's unlikely.  

 

So the most obvious choices for the MUCH needed upgrade are Mitch + Draft or trade for Jimmy.  Both would be huge upgrades over TH.  If you don't think so, you're wrong.  So go sit in the corner and be wrong.  

 

I'd take either at this point.  I would lean towards Mitch + Rookie, with the assumption the FO sees top-10 QB potential and upside in the rookie.  If not, I'd take Jimmy and then try again next year.  And the year after.  And the year after.  Until you find the guy.  

 

4. The best case scenario of getting a top 10-12 QB is the following, and it's somewhat unlikely:

 

McDaniels and the Patriots guy who's now the GM don't want to extend Carr.

They like Jimmy G. from their days at the Patriots. They can get Jimmy and sign him for less than they can re-sign Carr.

They trade a #2 to SF to get Jimmy.  They extend him for a reasonable deal.

They trade Carr to us for 2 #1's

 

SF gets back a 1 it used for Lance.  

We get Carr. We lose 2 #1's. 

The Raiders get a QB they like for the next 3-4 years and in the end net an additional #1, they lose a #2. 

 

That could happen.  You could say we would be over-paying.  Which is true.  But if you're going to get one of the better QBs you're going to have to overspend to do it, so you have to just live with it.

 

Carr is better than Jimmy, and both are better than Mitch, and they're all better than TH. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Conn]

37 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

we didn't upset them, we beat them pretty thoroughly

Nobody who beat Dallas without Dak upset them, they don’t even fall into that category of hard to beat team without their QB. That’s why I said it’s a useless technicality. The end of my post was referring to good teams in general and not Dallas that year without Dak specifically. So again, what are you actually arguing? That in years where good teams lose their franchise QBs to injury we can sometimes beat them thoroughly? Thrilling! 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

SF gets back a 1 it used for Lance.  

We get Carr. We lose 2 #1's. 

The Raiders get a QB they like for the next 3-4 years and in the end net an additional #1, they lose a #2. 

 

That could happen.  You could say we would be over-paying.  Which is true.  But if you're going to get one of the better QBs you're going to have to overspend to do it, so you have to just live with it.

 

Carr is better than Jimmy, and both are better than Mitch, and they're all better than TH. 

 

 

 

 

If I follow the train of his discussion this is Keim saying the Raiders could be swinging for the fences at QB and want draft capital.

 

I know some here are yawn about Carr but IMO I think they are crazy.    The arguments feels so similar to arguments that were used against Stafford in last year's QB thread which were the proof is in the pudding and that is Stafford just doesn't win, he doesn't elevate his team, etc, etc, etc.

 

Carr IMO is so similar to what I thought of Stafford's situation was last year.  Carr is on a team that is almost all on his shoulders.  Bad supporting cast.  Yet he's an above average talent.  And he's a proven clutch player.   

 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Burgold]

2 hours ago, actorguy1 said:

No hand measurement for Pickett.

 thought they only measured horses in hands?