The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randal 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Fromm battle for QB2 and so begins the Handsome Harem for Hartman

[Warhead36]

Most defenses in today's NFL are bend but don't break. You're going to give up yards to any decent QB. The key is to limit them to FGs and get takeaways when you can.

[wit33]

4 hours ago, DWinzit said:

The team needs to adopt more of a go for the jugular approach for sure. They never step on the throat of an opponent when they have em down. That needs to change

Is this possible in the NFL lol

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by wit33

[FootballZombie]

5 hours ago, DWinzit said:

The team needs to adopt more of a go for the jugular approach for sure. They never step on the throat of an opponent when they have em down. That needs to change

 

 

Unless you got Lamar Jackson at QB that's gonna require a certain quality of passing attack.

 

We have a questionable O-line

and one of the worst TE groups in the NFL

and a O-Cord who has never installed his own NFL O

and possibly a QB who has 11 completions to his name

and everybody is learning a new system

and everyone is on job alert due to new ownership

 

 

Yeah... Off the cuff that is not a unit built for aggressiveness. If you can flip the majority of those problems into something other than glaring problems, then you can start stomping jugulars. I'm expecting us to ultimately be run heavy again. Being something else would require multiple groups to defy expectations.

[DWinzit]

2 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

 

Unless you got Lamar Jackson at QB that's gonna require a certain quality of passing attack.

 

We have a questionable O-line

and one of the worst TE groups in the NFL

and a O-Cord who has never installed his own NFL O

and possibly a QB who has 11 completions to his name

and everybody is learning a new system

and everyone is on job alert due to new ownership

 

 

Yeah... Off the cuff that is not a unit built for aggressiveness. If you can flip the majority of those problems into something other than glaring problems, then you can start stomping jugulars. I'm expecting us to ultimately be run heavy again. Being something else would require multiple groups to defy expectations.

This team has ignored stepping on the jugular throughout the RR era. 

 

You have given all the excuses to allow it for the coming year.

 

If they find themselves in that circumstance they should be able be aggressive.

 

Yes, heavy on the run but there are so many ways of changing up play calling then our old Vanilla Ice Scott Turner did. He is gone. We are better just with that!

 

With the recent additions our D is even stronger D than last year.

 

We have a good group of RB's and WR's.

 

Yup, new inexperienced QB. One that has proven to be tough, mobile and can throw any place, any time on the field. Quite an upgrade from the past in that respect. 

 

I still expect they add at least one starter via FA fortify the current roster.

 

Stepping on the jugular does not mean they must air raid every play, just mix up play calling and occasionally toss it up

 

These coaches should be wanting to win with more passion this season!

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I think that's a lot more likely than the pundits that have us belly-flopping into the deep end next year.

 

I feel like we could almost put Logan Thomas at QB and scrape together some wins. The roster aint trash, its just poorly assembled.

 

 

Lean on the D... Run the ball... several wins. Its not pretty and its not ideal, but you work with what ya got.

 

That's a good summary for me.   I think the defense is too good for them to suck.  And while I don't count Howell as some slam dunk success from the jump -- am cautious about young QBs after being burned so much over the years -- I still think at a minimum he will be an improvement over the QB play last year. 

 

The roster is mostly good but poorly assembled.  A new coach-FO can fix this fast next off season because there are a lot of good parts.   It likely will be all hands on deck to fix rhat O line that likely derails the season.  Ron IMO strangely left the big hole on the ship to sink it again. But I like a lot of the parts on the ship for the next crew to come in and set sail without the need of a major overhaul. 

 

The sad part to me about run the ball is this wasn't a good run blocking O line last year.  One of the worst ranked anayltically. One of the worst YPAs, too.   Atlanta for example is a run the ball team -- but they put the blocking chops behind it. 

 

Not sure its going to be much better this season.  Gates at least by PFF metrics is a better pass protector than run blocker.  Wylie is a bit small compared to the typical RT and has basically average run blocking scores from PFF.  Leno is a better pass blocker than run blocker.

 

Even Jay Gruden said recently for a team that touts running the ball he's surprised they have this TE crew because they have just one good blocking TE and that's not enough.   He said he was surprised they skipped TE in the draft.   

 

Logan Thomas hopefully improves but if I recall he was ranked as the dead last worst run blocking TE last year.  Cole Turner isn't much of a blocker.  Amani Rogers is also more of an F TE type -- receiving, move TE not a blocking TE.

 

Imagine if they put some teeth behind the lets run the ball rhetoric.  The PFF guys in particular love to say if they want to improve a team's running game they are more focused on improving the blocking than they are finding the back. 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The roster is mostly good but poorly assembled.  A new coach-FO can fix this fast next off season because there are a lot of good parts.   It likely will be all hands on deck to fix rhat O line that likely derails the season.  Ron IMO strangely left the big hole on the ship to sink it again. But I like a lot of the parts on the ship for the next crew to come in and set sail without the need of a major overhaul. 

 

You're killing this regime to the point you are ready to see them fired over the way they addressed the OL this off-season, but what would you have done differently?  Dump Payne to chase Jawaan Taylor or Mike McGlinchey?  Pick Anton Harrison instead of Forbes or Cody Mauch instead of Martin?  I liked those prospects but they were not can't miss players at all.  Harrison would have been considered just as big a reach as Forbes and Mauch is a developmental IOL.  Passing on prospects like this are not justification for abruptly jumping ship on the Rivera regime like you have.

 

 At the end of the day, Rivera added four new guys to a ten man group, three of which will almost certainly play this year.  He's cutting the two worst problem players on the line from last season without losing any of the good parts from the group.  He's got another good player coming out of the pipeline this season, and he added another good prospect into the pipeline for tomorrow.  And he accomplished this in an absolutely horrendous OL free agency and draft class, perhaps the worst in a decade.  Moreover, he did it in an environment where I'm pretty sure even John Keim said they wouldn't be able to spend in free agency.  He also replaced the play caller with a far better coach, and he's finally going with a young QB with some mobility.  That is attacking the 2022 OL problem.

 

And he did it while simultaneously strengthening the defense.

 

These are not moves that justify jumping ship on a regime.  It feels a lot like there is a building groupthink on here to bury Rivera over this because there is a suspicion that the Harris group has predetermined to fire Rivera and people are searching for justifications for that move because they don't want to believe that new ownership will come in here and make a bunch of terrible and wasteful and meddlesome decisions that ruin culture and team Rivera has spent the past four years building, putting us back at square one.

[Skinsinparadise]

42 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

You're killing this regime to the point you are ready to see them fired over the way they addressed the OL this off-season, but what would you have done differently?  Dump Payne to chase Jawaan Taylor or Mike McGlinchey?  Pick Anton Harrison instead of Forbes or Cody Mauch instead of Martin?  I liked those prospects but they were not can't miss players at all.  Harrison would have been considered just as big a reach as Forbes and Mauch is a developmental IOL.  Passing on prospects like this are not justification for abruptly jumping ship on the Rivera regime like you have.

 

 

I've been borderline a rabid defender of this regime including ironically even defending them against you on somethings over the years.  So this is a reversal where we are on the opposite sides but i know on the aggregate you've been mostly cool with them.  As I have.  But to me they gambled on the O line and if they fail their gamble they deserve to be canned.  I am not saying I end up right about the O line and them wrong.  But I am on the record that if I along with plenty of others are right then they deserve to go for this among other reasons. 

 

What would I have done differently?  And I said most of this in real time without the benefit of hindsight. 

 

Center.  Pocic or McGovern over Gates.  This is more of a nitpicky thing.  Gates seems fine but i don't feel that's a killer signing at center.  So center is fine but i don't think he's anything killer the more I digested him.  And for a team paranoid about durability at center it feels curious that they signed the dude with an Alex smith style rebuilt leg -- he had the same injuries as Alex but without the serious infection.  But they did take one of my favorite players in the draft, Stromberg.  So center is fine.  Nice job. That is, nice job for 2024 because it sounds like they don't intend for Stromberg to start this season.

 

Guard:  Sign one of the FA guards -- Nate Davis, Ben Powers maybe Seumalo.  And if not, at least draft one dude that would start this season.  If you aren't going to do it in the first round I get it.  No guards were worth the first round.  But in the 2nd Mauch or Torrence.  Look, Quan Martin was one of my favorite players in this draft.  I dug the pick.  But I stll would have taken Mauch considering they did nothing to help the guard spot in FA IMO.   

 

And I get its throwing need in the mix of the draft but heck that's how this team rolls in the draft anyway as Keim would say before each day of the draft -- these are the two spots they are targeting in whatever order.  He implied on both days the O line were the higher priority target.  And that's exactly what they ended up doing, picking those two spots.  But alas for them the secondary players were higher on their board than the O lineman in the first two days.  That's fine.  I hate drafting to need.  But drafting to need is somewhat how they roll anyway.   And yes its a subjective take on my end but I do think they'd have gained more from Mauch than they will from Martin as much as I like Martin.

 

Tackle:  Every now and then I talked about Braden Daniels on the draft thread because he came off more athletic as a mover than the typical tackle.  But he's also 290 pounds and change.  He has 33 inch arms.  He's not a slam, we got our tackle for the future.  It's like not drafting  And Ron has already hinted we won't see much of him this season but they will work on developing him.  So tackle was adding Wylie.  Wylie to me is sort of a Leno at RT.  Like Leno, his stats aren't hot.  But he's serviceable.  i am not excited about the signing.  But its OK.  It's their one improvement IMO for this season.   Could they have done better than Wylie?  Sure.  Kaleb McGary didn't cost a fortune and is argubaly the best run blocking RT in the league. 

 

It's not that one move alone kills me.  It's I hate the sum of its parts.  There wasn't a single swing hard move at the spot whether in the draft or FA.  Some here like the depth better now -- personally I don't see much of a difference.   And the D lines in this division are really good and got better this off season.  At tackle we have average at best talent.  Guards are total wildcards.  I like Cosmi but can he stay healthy?  I like the talent of Paul but he's raw and new -- will see.    S. Charles isn't consistent and can't stay healhy.   

 

Schweitzer who was good insurance is gone.  Who is backing up Cosmi if he gets hurt or Paul if he struggles or gets hurt?  Charles seems to be the only natural guard backup.   i liked Daniels before the draft but he needs to bulk up and it sounds like they want to ride him on the bench this year and groom him for RT.   So I don't see much as for depth.  If they have to move Gates to guard is he somehow an improvement over Schweitzer?  And I don't see Gates as depth when they apparently want him to start at center because they prefer a veteran with a young QB at that spot.

 

Overall it feels slightly better than rearranging the deck on the Titanic.  I am ok with the idea of its slightly better.   But I don't see this being an average level O line.  I think Matt Miller among others take the point too far that this is the worst O line in the NFL.  But i'll run with PFN take of the 26th best -- that feels right.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

These are not moves that justify jumping ship on a regime.  It feels a lot like there is a building groupthink on here to bury Rivera over this because there is a suspicion that the Harris group has predetermined to fire Rivera and people are searching for justifications for that move because they don't want to believe that new ownership will come in here and make a bunch of terrible and wasteful and meddlesome decisions that ruin culture and team Rivera has spent the past four years building, putting us back at square one.

 

Harris has a reputation of finding the best GM-coach he can find and then gets out of their way.  But he's not saddled with Dan's vision and Dan's team.  He has a clean slate with that as far as i am concerned.   And I know some others here feel the same way.    I was listening to a dude who covered him with the NJ Devils the other day and he was gushing about his vision-patience-emphasis on analytics, etc.  

 

But this team as to coaching and FO isn't Harris' team.  It's Dan's.  He shouldn't feel stuck with his predecessors regime and vision.  It would if anything come off odd to feel stuck with any predecessor's vision let alone the vision of one of the worst owners in sports history

 

It's the same argument I made on behalf of Rivera when it involved things that were saddled on him (Haskins, Trent's situation, etc) that you gave him a hard time for at the time.    Rivera's job wasn't to play the hand that others saddled on him.  Things that he inherited from his predecessor that he didn't embrace.   Rivera had a clean slate with that stuff for me.  Problems that weren't his own creation and didn't fit his philosophy.    I defended Ron in that process.  Just like I'll defend Harris for the same reasons. 

 

If I buy a restaurant and inherit the previous regime's cooks and waiters, etc.  It's not bad form on my end to disrupt whatever I don't like versus feeling stuck with the previous owner's vision.   Now once i put my own team together.  Yes, then I need to be patient to let my own vision play out.  

 

And look i love Ron as a dude.  I do think he will be canned if he goes on year 4 without a winning record.   And he should be canned for it.  But I mean it with no bitterness.   He dealt with a crap storm of an owner and a sinking franchise and did so with total class.  it's a bit disappointing for me though that he's the only dude who is complementing Dan as he leaves.  But aside from that, he did a killer job at maintaining the culture in an environment that was awful.  So i'll look on his regime fondly when he goes.   I also think he did a nice job setting up the next regime with a good roster.

 

My only bitterness relating to Ron is on his own behalf.   Some of that is selfish on my end because I've been one of his more rabid defenders.  And not that I loved the job he was doing but i liked most of it, and got the method to the madness. But IMO he did himself wrong with this off season because I'd put money that the upshot narrative in the end from the national media (and its clear that he cares what the national media thinks) will be he came here and in 4 years not only didn't he have a winning record once, but left with a worse record in his last season. 

 

And if a bad season happens, then you add the narrative that it will be 3 winning seasons in 13 seasons of coaching for Ron.  It doesn't sell his legacy much.  But IMO his legacy here is showing total class in an organization desperate for that.  So overall, he did a nice job in his 4 seasons.  But I genuinely do not think he has the vision-ability to take this team to being a consistent winner.  So for me yeah i think they will move on from him next season if he has the typical season he's had here. 

 

And I'd go as far as saying its no brainer -- they'd be crazy not to move on in that case.  But heck if Ron has a big season and shocks the world. I'd love to be wrong.  I always root for success.  And in Ron's case, i love the dude's character so I'd love to see him successful.  It would feel great. Like anyone here I've been right about stuff and wrong.  I am never married to my preseason preconceptions. 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

6 hours ago, wit33 said:

Is this possible in the NFL lol

 

Maybe if you have a Mahomes, Burrow, or Allen type at QB. But everyone here just assumes as soon as we get a 1 score lead we should immediately win by 2-3 scores. That ain't how the league works unless you have a GUY at QB. 

[samy316]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

You're killing this regime to the point you are ready to see them fired over the way they addressed the OL this off-season, but what would you have done differently?  Dump Payne to chase Jawaan Taylor or Mike McGlinchey?  Pick Anton Harrison instead of Forbes or Cody Mauch instead of Martin?  I liked those prospects but they were not can't miss players at all.  Harrison would have been considered just as big a reach as Forbes and Mauch is a developmental IOL.  Passing on prospects like this are not justification for abruptly jumping ship on the Rivera regime like you have.

 

 At the end of the day, Rivera added four new guys to a ten man group, three of which will almost certainly play this year.  He's cutting the two worst problem players on the line from last season without losing any of the good parts from the group.  He's got another good player coming out of the pipeline this season, and he added another good prospect into the pipeline for tomorrow.  And he accomplished this in an absolutely horrendous OL free agency and draft class, perhaps the worst in a decade.  Moreover, he did it in an environment where I'm pretty sure even John Keim said they wouldn't be able to spend in free agency.  He also replaced the play caller with a far better coach, and he's finally going with a young QB with some mobility.  That is attacking the 2022 OL problem.

 

And he did it while simultaneously strengthening the defense.

 

These are not moves that justify jumping ship on a regime.  It feels a lot like there is a building groupthink on here to bury Rivera over this because there is a suspicion that the Harris group has predetermined to fire Rivera and people are searching for justifications for that move because they don't want to believe that new ownership will come in here and make a bunch of terrible and wasteful and meddlesome decisions that ruin culture and team Rivera has spent the past four years building, putting us back at square one.

 

Yes, Ron has had to deal with a meddlesome, idiotic owner, but here's the deal:  He's still 22-27-1 after three seasons as a HC.  The NFL, last time I checked stands for National Football League, but it also stands for "Not For Long".  A coach with that record after three seasons, very likely doesn't see a fourth season.  Since this situation is unique, and the ownership situation is in flux, Rivera is lucky enough to be coaching his fourth season with this team.  He absolutely should worry that his job is in jeopardy, because if were operating  under normal circumstances, he would already be fired after the conclusion of the previous season.  That's why a lot of fans and media naturally assume that Josh Harris is going to make a move on this current regime.  
 

In the NFL, you should be able to get a team to win 10+ games by your third season. If you’re not seeing any upward

trend by the third season, then that coach should be fired.  7 wins, 7 wins and 8 wins is not enough improvement or upward mobility to give Rivera the benefit of the doubt.  How

many coaches have we seen get their teams to win 11-12 wins in 2-3 years, and win playoff games?  Too many to count.  This coach should’t be any different, circumstances be damned.  The fact that he also has FO duties, makes this even more apparent.

Edited May 24, 2023 by samy316

[Going Commando]

28 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Harris has a reputation of finding the best GM-coach he can find and then gets out of their way.  But he's not saddled with Dan's vision and Dan's team.  He has a clean slate with that as far as i am concerned.   And I know some others here feel the same way.    I was listening to a dude who covered him with the NJ Devils the other day and he was gushing about his vision-patience-emphasis on analytics, etc.  

 

Eh, I follow the NBA so maybe that's why I'm more sanguine about the acumen of the Harris group than you are.  I've watched the way he's butchered that franchise's reputation and legacy and really has little to show for it.  Doc Rivers, Daryl Morey, and Elton Brand aren't the best leadership out there to be had.  Morey is a huckster who is the most overrated executive in the NBA.  That dude has no idea how to build a championship caliber culture, he's just a good salesman who uses fancy math to come up with excuses for why he can never build a complete team.  He's staked his whole career on James Harden, probably because he can smell his own in him--the premier bull**** artist of his generation of players.  Brand and Rivers are dinosaurs.  Rivers is like the anti-analytics coach.  He's a big name but a mediocre coach that keeps getting work because he lucked into a dominant Big 3 construction 15 years ago.  That was all about Danny Ainge's brilliance for working the cap and making trades, Rivers just kept the car on the road. 

 

And Sam Hinkie was an overmatched clown too, whose experimentation in 5 year tanking was so obviously going to get himself and everyone fired that you could see it coming in year one of the process.  It was such a controversial disaster that the NBA actually came up with a new playoff system to stop anyone else from doing it.  But then they couldn't even see that plan through before forcing Hinkie to step down and replacing him with an even bigger fool in Colangelo, who literally spent his free time arguing with other idiots on twitter burner accounts.  Brett Brown was a really nice guy and a solid coach whose reputation was ruined by working for that trainwreck.  It'll probably take him years of rehabilitative work with an actual good franchise in the Spurs for him to get another shot at head coaching.

 

And after essentially abrogating their duty to compete, making a mockery of the game, and trashing their franchise's winning percentage, what do the 76ers have to show for it?  Joel Embiid and a bunch of crap that can't get out of the second round of the playoffs.  They traded Andre Iguodala for Andrew Bynum, whom I'm not sure even played a game for them.  They traded away Jrue Holiday and any semblance at being able to compete for Nerlens Noel.  They picked Jahlil Okafor third overall then traded him and another recent high lottery pick within two years for a second rounder and one of the Wizards bench players.  They picked Tobias Harris over Jimmy Butler.  Butler got the Hell out of dodge and never looked back because he knew that organization was a clown show and wanted to go play for an actual good one.  They traded up to pick Markelle Fultz over Jayson Tatum, and directly set their division rival up to be better than them.  They picked Ben Simmons and then wrecked his confidence so thoroughly that he became afraid to shoot open shots in the playoffs, and then they dumped him for a washed up James Harden.  They are a case study in terrible, wasteful team building and management, perhaps the most wasteful and mismanaged NBA team in decades.  The only reason they are marginally competitive right now is because they got one single decision right in drafting Joel Embiid.

 

Harris is just as clueless as any other owner coming in and taking over a team as a neophyte and layman to the sport.  Maybe worse, judging by the complete hash he's made of the 76ers.  The best thing he can do is to focus on the stadium/brand work and 100% stay out of Rivera's way on the football side of the business, because he is absolutely not gonna do better than what Rivera has already built.  He's paid for the right to fire everyone here, but he'd prove himself a fool by doing so.

[samy316]

13 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Eh, I follow the NBA so maybe that's why I'm more sanguine about the acumen of the Harris group than you are.  I've watched the way he's butchered that franchise's reputation and legacy and really has little to show for it.  Doc Rivers, Daryl Morey, and Elton Brand aren't the best leadership out there to be had.  Morey is a huckster who is the most overrated executive in the NBA.  That dude has no idea how to build a championship caliber culture, he's just a good salesman who uses fancy math to come up with excuses for why he can never build a complete team.  He's staked his whole career on James Harden, probably because he can smell his own in him--the premier bull**** artist of his generation of players.  Brand and Rivers are dinosaurs.  Rivers is like the anti-analytics coach.  He's a big name but a mediocre coach that keeps getting work because he lucked into a dominant Big 3 construction 15 years ago.  That was all about Danny Ainge's brilliance for working the cap and making trades, Rivers just kept the car on the road. 

 

And Sam Hinkie was an overmatched clown too, whose experimentation in 5 year tanking was so obviously going to get himself and everyone fired that you could see it coming in year one of the process.  It was such a controversial disaster that the NBA actually came up with a new playoff system to stop anyone else from doing it.  But then they couldn't even see that plan through before forcing Hinkie to step down and replacing him with an even bigger fool in Colangelo, who literally spent his free time arguing with other idiots on twitter burner accounts.  Brett Brown was a really nice guy and a solid coach whose reputation was ruined by working for that trainwreck.  It'll probably take him years of rehabilitative work with an actual good franchise in the Spurs for him to get another shot at head coaching.

 

And after essentially abrogating their duty to compete, making a mockery of the game, and trashing their franchise's winning percentage, what do the 76ers have to show for it?  Joel Embiid and a bunch of crap that can't get out of the second round of the playoffs.  They traded Andre Iguodala for Andrew Bynum, whom I'm not sure even played a game for them.  They traded away Jrue Holiday and any semblance at being able to compete for Nerlens Noel.  They picked Jahlil Okafor third overall then traded him and another recent high lottery pick within two years for a second rounder and one of the Wizards bench players.  They picked Tobias Harris over Jimmy Butler.  Butler got the Hell out of dodge and never looked back because he knew that organization was a clown show and wanted to go play for an actual good one.  They traded up to pick Markelle Fultz over Jayson Tatum, and directly set their division rival up to be better than them.  They picked Ben Simmons and then wrecked his confidence so thoroughly that he became afraid to shoot open shots in the playoffs, and then they dumped him for a washed up James Harden.  They are a case study in terrible, wasteful team building and management, perhaps the most wasteful and mismanaged NBA team in decades.  The only reason they are marginally competitive right now is because they got one single decision right in drafting Joel Embiid.

 

Harris is just as clueless as any other owner coming in and taking over a team as a neophyte and layman to the sport.  Maybe worse, judging by the complete hash he's made of the 76ers.  The best thing he can do is to focus on the stadium/brand work and 100% stay out of Rivera's way on the football side of the business, because he is absolutely not gonna do better than what Rivera has already built.  He's paid for the right to fire everyone here, but he'd prove himself a fool by doing so.

 

You can't be serious with this, right?  He's a mediocre coach, that can only win about 9 games in a season.  That's his ceiling.  We can do MUCH better than Rivera.  If you enjoy winning 7-9 games every year, with NO chance at contending for a conference championship or SB, then Rivera is your guy.  He's only had 3 winning seasons out of 12 as an HC.  That's thoroughly mediocre.  We don't have a Cam Newton on this team, that can carry Rivera to a 11+ win season.  Rivera will be fired by season's end.  Hell, if he starts off to another one of his patented 1-5 or 2-5 records, he'll be fired mid-season.  He's the coach with the hottest seat in the NFL right now.  I would be shocked, and truthfully dismayed if Rivera is still the HC here after the 2023 season.  He's the Jeff Fisher of coaches, which is NOT a compliment by the way.  He doesn't deserve to coach this team beyond this year, unless he pulls a rabbit out of his hat, and Sam Howell is a franchise QB after all.

Edited May 24, 2023 by samy316

[MartinC]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Schweitzer who was good insurance is gone.  Who is backing up Cosmi if he gets hurt or Paul if he struggles or gets hurt?  Charles seems to be the only natural guard backup.   i liked Daniels before the draft but he needs to bulk up and it sounds like they want to ride him on the bench this year and groom him for RT.   So I don't see much as for depth.  If they have to move Gates to guard is he somehow an improvement over Schweitzer?  And I don't see Gates as depth when they apparently want him to start at center because they prefer a veteran with a young QB at that spot.

 

 I THINK the plan is they have people they can move around. If say Cosmi gets hurt they can move Wylie to guard and play Lucas. If Paul doesnt play well they can slide Gates over and play Stromberg, or play Charles etc etc. They have options they can slide around - whether they are good options is another question entirely.

 

I think there will be at least one more vet signed either before camp or more likely late cuts.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

Harris is just as clueless as any other owner coming in and taking over a team as a neophyte and layman to the sport.  Maybe worse, judging by the complete hash he's made of the 76ers.  The best thing he can do is to focus on the stadium/brand work and 100% stay out of Rivera's way on the football side of the business, because he is absolutely not gonna do better than what Rivera has already built.  He's paid for the right to fire everyone here, but he'd prove himself a fool by doing so.

 

Listening to the ones who covered Harris in Phlly and NJ.  Most of them have characterized him this way.  And I have read and posted a ton about him.  I listened to a ton of interviews and most (with a straggler or two) they paint a common brush.  At a minimum it will be a sea change from Dan on these fronts.

 

A.  He will spend whatever it takes on getting the best FO-coach-scouts.  Dan was the opposite especially when it came to the FO where he was one of the cheapest.

 

B.  He tries to be cutting edge on everything.  Versus Dan where we have the smallest analytics department in the NFL, just one employee and we were late to that game.  This team was late to the value of nutrition, the need for state of the art recovery equipment on and on.  

 

C.  He wants the best facilities and equipment and whatever it takes to facilitate winning and making his team a place where players-people want to work for.  Versus Dan where giving peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for a spell to feed the players on the road and just recently the teams players gave this team an F minus for how they are treated on the road -- among other F ratings for how they are treated.

 

D.  Most say he's a nice dude who lets people do their job and then gets out of their way.  Dan is a total douche who treats people like crap and ran the building based on fear.  And made this team a magnet for scandals and sleaze. 

 

None of these changes from A to B guarantees success.  But the days of this team having a Motel 6 vibe both as far as spending money and how they treat people are likely gone.  Ditto the days that the FO is either run by some incompetent but who is Dan's best buddy or by a coach centric model that isn't run by a FO person who is considered upper echelon.

 

I am not a big basketball guy I admit that.  I do watch the playoffs at times.  And yeah I saw both series for the Sixers including Harden's meltdown.  But still, 6 seasons in the playoffs in a row doesn't feel remotely Dan Snyderish or even Ron Riverish.    As you know he fired Rivers.

 

We are going from a dude who will buy a restaurant in the cheapest shopping area he can find, do nothing to help the building if its falling apart.  And then for the kicker, he will act like a douche to the employees and run the operation by fear fueling scapegoating and bringing a big time loser level bad culture -- to a dude who tries to do everything first class.  It should be a big difference over time.

 

 

 “He knows how to surround himself with great operating people and allow them to do what they do. When you’re in the private equity business, that’s really what you do. You structure a deal, and then you turn it over to great operators who are properly incentivized.”

 

And his success in business has come through more than just his own ability—it’s also, as Kraft says, in his ability to surround himself with the right people and weaponize them.

 

 

....Harris has also helped turn both franchises around.

He bought the Devils at a time when they were coming off the Martin Brodeur era (during which New Jersey made the playoffs in 19 of 20 years and won three Stanley Cups) and were in need of a serious overhaul. The remaking came with an investment in analytics, plus doing more to draw fans to the arena in Newark and, most importantly, in finding the right way to rebuild the roster. “He had to throw a lot of money at the Devils,” says Bettman.

It took time, but New Jersey now boasts one of the league’s most talented young cores, returning to the playoffs this spring for the first time in five years and even advancing a round.

 

...Philadelphia’s run of six straight playoff appearances is the franchise’s first since Julius Erving was on the roster, and it’s gotten out of the first round in five of those six years.

 

 

...Just as important is that Harris didn’t try to do any of it on his own. As was the case with Reaves and Mosaic, the tentpole principle on which he (and Blitzer) built out the Sixers and Devils was to find good people and empower them to do their jobs.

“He’s got that focus on, I want to make sure that I help on the most important decisions, and I want to make sure that I have all the right people around,” says Rubin. “He’s not a meddler on things that don’t matter. He’s focused on the big things that move the needle.”

 

...So to say Harris is dogged and determined to win would be an understatement.

“I consider him to be an animal, in the most positive of ways,” Rubin says. “Josh, he’s unrelenting. He’s going to do things in the right way.”

And in this particular case, his intensity most certainly won’t be ratcheted down.

 

...Silver knew then that Harris would fight hard to get the team, and then fight even harder to turn its fortunes around, if he could outlast the other bidders on it.

“This is somebody, to the extent that fans lose sleep when their team isn’t successful, I promise this guy is gonna lose more sleep than they do,” Silver said. “He takes it all seriously. I’ve talked to him the morning after tough losses, and one of the first things he’ll say to me is, I hardly slept last night. He’s tossing and turning all the time. Ownership of that team is as personal to him as it is to any hardcore fan. I want to assure [Commanders fans], this is not a professional investor coming in to create a portfolio of sports assets. And this team is very unique to him, in terms of the intensity of his fandom.”

 

...With that established, there’s plenty of reason to believe all those fans are getting the right one. Bettman pointed back to how he’s seen his grandchildren, raised in an area where Rangers fans go back generations, root for the Devils—in part because Harris has made them so present in New Jersey, through Learn to Play programs and community involvement, and in part because now, finally, they’re winning again.

It’s the totality of the work that impressed Bettman, and it’s what he, and all these others, can very easily envision carrying right over to the Commanders and the NFL.

“Look at the 76ers, look at the Devils,” Bettman said. “Josh will do whatever is necessary to ensure the Commanders are a competitive team, fan-focused and fan-friendly. He’ll put together a first-class organization and make whatever investments are necessary. … If I were a Commanders fan, I’d be really excited. Josh is gonna do great things with the franchise.”

And that fans in D.C. can actually believe that would be, well, a pretty significant first step for Harris. Because it’s been a very, very long time since they’ve felt that way.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[UK Skins]

3 hours ago, samy316 said:

We can do MUCH better than Rivera.  If you enjoy winning 7-9 games every year, with NO chance at contending for a conference championship or SB, then Rivera is your guy.  He's only had 3 winning seasons out of 12 as an HC.  That's thoroughly mediocre.

 

And to boot, ending up with a mid-round draft pick every year. At least bomb one season and give us a high pick but no, 7-9 games and mediocrity in every sense. It's maddening.

[redskinss]

3 hours ago, samy316 said:

We don't have a Cam Newton on this team, that can carry Rivera to a 11+ win season

Let me give you the list of great head coaches who's success can't be tied to a franchise quarterback. 

 

1 Joe Gibbs.

2, yup that's right just Joe Gibbs.

 

Stop using cam Newton as a cop out to pretend like Rivera has had no success at all in this league. 

He has shown that he's capable of coaching a 15-1 team to a superbowl. 

 

You're right though, he has had more poor to average seasons than successful ones and for that he should be on the hot seat but not taking extenuating circumstances into consideration like the fact that cam newton's talent faded quickly to the point that not even the great Belichick could get anything out of him or the fact that not even christ himself could have done much more than .500 with the quarterbacks Rivera has had to work with for the last 4 years just comes off as bitterness rather than honest evaluation. 

Rivera definitely has his flaws but in my opinion the most important attribute for a head coach is the ability to build chemistry and inspire the team to want to fight and he definitely has that, the second most important is to get a franchise quarterback and get the right coordinators and the jury is still out on that one but if Howell and Bienemy pan out he could still have some playoff seasons left in him.

[redskinss]

24 minutes ago, UK Skins said:

 

And to boot, ending up with a mid-round draft pick every year. At least bomb one season and give us a high pick but no, 7-9 games and mediocrity in every sense. It's maddening.

As a fan, sure it's frustrating but are you really going to hold that against Rivera?

 

No self respecting head coach should ever go into a season planning on only winning a game or two and I wouldn't want the one who did.

[samy316]

46 minutes ago, UK Skins said:

 

And to boot, ending up with a mid-round draft pick every year. At least bomb one season and give us a high pick but no, 7-9 games and mediocrity in every sense. It's maddening.

 

Exactly.  I'd rather have that one terrible 4-13 or 3-14 season, so that we can have a chance of drafting a franchise QB.  What Rivera and the FO has done in the 3+ years of running this team is make it impossible to be worse than 6 wins, AND impossible to win more than 9 games.  So the team is stuck in mediocrity.  The worse place to be in the NFL.

26 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Let me give you the list of great head coaches who's success can't be tied to a franchise quarterback. 

 

1 Joe Gibbs.

2, yup that's right just Joe Gibbs.

 

Stop using cam Newton as a cop out to pretend like Rivera has had no success at all in this league. 

He has shown that he's capable of coaching a 15-1 team to a superbowl. 

 

You're right though, he has had more poor to average seasons than successful ones and for that he should be on the hot seat but not taking extenuating circumstances into consideration like the fact that cam newton's talent faded quickly to the point that not even the great Belichick could get anything out of him or the fact that not even christ himself could have done much more than .500 with the quarterbacks Rivera has had to work with for the last 4 years just comes off as bitterness rather than honest evaluation. 

Rivera definitely has his flaws but in my opinion the most important attribute for a head coach is the ability to build chemistry and inspire the team to want to fight and he definitely has that, the second most important is to get a franchise quarterback and get the right coordinators and the jury is still out on that one but if Howell and Bienemy pan out he could still have some playoff seasons left in him.

 

NOPE.  I'm tired of NFL pundits and media members giving Rivera the credit for that 15-1 season.  That was ALL Cam newton and that defense.  Rivera is Jeff Fisher, with Cam Newton playing the role of a much better version of Steve McNair.  Take away Cam Newton, and Rivera would be qualified to be no more than a D-Coordinator in the NFL.  He had the luxury of having a top 5 (maybe Top 3) QB for a few years, just like Jeff Fisher.  Jeff Fisher lived off that 2000 SB appearance for 15 years, before he was fired.  He had only 6 winning seasons out of 21 years as an HC.  Notice the similarity?  How did Fisher do those last few years in Tennessee, and his entire coaching tenure in St. Louis/LA? 

Edited May 24, 2023 by samy316

[Skinsinparadise]

 

It didn’t sound like it was only the second day of organized team activities for the Washington Commanders because, for the better part of two hours, Eric Bieniemy delivered a steady stream of loud, exacting directives. After one play on Wednesday, frustrated by his unit’s pace, Washington’s new offensive coordinator hollered, “We have X amount of time to get this [stuff] right, so get in the huddle, and let’s go!”

 

 

Later, a coach tried to stop a snap because the defense only had 10 players on the field, and Bieniemy shouted: “Don’t worry about it! Just play!”

In the red zone, quarterback Sam Howell tried to zip a throw through a tight window, but safety Percy Butler picked it off.

 

“You threw it! You go get it!” Bieniemy yelled, chiding Howell for not chasing Butler.

Howell, who took all the first-team reps, seemed to respond. During one play, he didn’t like how the team got into formation and called players back into a huddle so they could do it again — this time, correctly.

 

“Coach Bieniemy stresses taking charge as the quarterback,” Coach Ron Rivera said.

 

Last year, the Commanders’ offense — specifically the quarterback play, offensive line and play caller — torpedoed the team’s season. This spring, Washington has a new first-string quarterback and a new play caller, and only one starter from last year’s line is likely to return in his original spot: left tackle Charles Leno Jr., who was not present for the start of OTAs. (Rivera downplayed Leno’s absence because the veteran is familiar with this West Coast-based scheme from his time in Chicago.)

 

The offensive revamp — along with top draft picks on defense and the hope that one day soon-ish the NFL will ratify the sale of the franchise — has brought hope that this can be the breakout season Rivera wanted in 2022. Running back Antonio Gibson described “a new energy” in the facility. Defensive tackle Jonathan Allen said he felt it too, and he acknowledged it’s largely due to the potential ownership change.

 

“I know a lot of fans were unhappy with how things were run, so just to see the energy from the fans, it's exciting, man,” he said. “This is a great city, and once we get things going and rolling this season, it's going to be on fire.”

In the pass-happy modern NFL, no pair will be as critical to the Commanders capitalizing on their potential as Bieniemy and Howell (or, if Howell falters, veteran backup Jacoby Brissett). The coordinator, 53, is tasked with molding the quarterback, 22, and in his first days as the leader of the offense, Howell looked poised in the huddle, though it was impossible to hear whether he could cleanly deliver the new offensive language in a play call.

 

On the field, Howell was aggressive from the pocket and accurate throwing on the run. If his timing got out of sync with his feet and reads, Bieniemy or new quarterbacks coach Tavita Pritchard harped on him to stay on time.

 

“Sam’s done a heck of a job,” Bieniemy said Saturday, ahead of OTAs. “Sam’s very professional. He’s very critical of himself. He’s very self-aware.”

Center Nick Gates and tight end Logan Thomas described Bieniemy as a hard-charging general and Howell as the calm, unflappable leader of the unit. Star wideout Terry McLaurin acknowledged Howell had grown a lot from the kid who was at this time last year a quiet rookie behind Carson Wentz and Taylor Heinicke.

“You can tell he’s getting more comfortable being a leader in a vocal role,” McLaurin said. “[Bieniemy] and the offensive staff put a lot of onus on him to come out and take control of the huddle and make sure the splits are right, and he’s running the show, and I think he’s doing a really good job of that. He’s doing a really good job of communicating with us.”

 

In the absence of Leno, the first-team line protecting Howell consisted of left tackle Cornelius Lucas, left guard Saahdiq Charles, center Nick Gates, right guard Sam Cosmi and right tackle Andrew Wylie. Late in practice, Howell followed up the red-zone interception by throwing a dart to running back Jonathan Williams, who scampered into the end zone. Wylie, who played in Kansas City with Bieniemy, seemed the furthest along in adopting his coach’s energy by screaming in celebration and doling out low-fives.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[MrJL]

5 hours ago, redskinss said:

Let me give you the list of great head coaches who's success can't be tied to a franchise quarterback. 

 

1 Joe Gibbs.

2, yup that's right just Joe Gibbs.

 

Stop using cam Newton as a cop out to pretend like Rivera has had no success at all in this league. 

He has shown that he's capable of coaching a 15-1 team to a superbowl. 

 

You're right though, he has had more poor to average seasons than successful ones and for that he should be on the hot seat but not taking extenuating circumstances into consideration like the fact that cam newton's talent faded quickly to the point that not even the great Belichick could get anything out of him or the fact that not even christ himself could have done much more than .500 with the quarterbacks Rivera has had to work with for the last 4 years just comes off as bitterness rather than honest evaluation. 

Rivera definitely has his flaws but in my opinion the most important attribute for a head coach is the ability to build chemistry and inspire the team to want to fight and he definitely has that, the second most important is to get a franchise quarterback and get the right coordinators and the jury is still out on that one but if Howell and Bienemy pan out he could still have some playoff seasons left in him.

 what about Mike Ditka?  He's no Gibbs but the Bears made themselves off of defense and the run

[xxprodigyxx]

23 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 what about Mike Ditka?  He's no Gibbs but the Bears made themselves off of defense and the run

i mean there are a few others but they are, for the most part, examples from a different era...harbaugh is closest thing to modern era but his team was a throwback imo.

- bill parcells (simms and hoss were not good)

- brian billick (trent dilfer)

- jon gruden (brad johnson)

- john harbaugh (flacco)

[kingdaddy]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Listening to the ones who covered Harris in Phlly and NJ.  Most of them have characterized him this way.  And I have read and posted a ton about him.  I listened to a ton of interviews and most (with a straggler or two) they paint a common brush.  At a minimum it will be a sea change from Dan on these fronts.

 

A.  He will spend whatever it takes on getting the best FO-coach-scouts.  Dan was the opposite especially when it came to the FO where he was one of the cheapest.

 

B.  He tries to be cutting edge on everything.  Versus Dan where we have the smallest analytics department in the NFL, just one employee and we were late to that game.  This team was late to the value of nutrition, the need for state of the art recovery equipment on and on.  

 

C.  He wants the best facilities and equipment and whatever it takes to facilitate winning and making his team a place where players-people want to work for.  Versus Dan where giving peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for a spell to feed the players on the road and just recently the teams players gave this team an F minus for how they are treated on the road -- among other F ratings for how they are treated.

 

D.  Most say he's a nice dude who lets people do their job and then gets out of their way.  Dan is a total douche who treats people like crap and ran the building based on fear.  And made this team a magnet for scandals and sleaze. 

 

None of these changes from A to B guarantees success.  But the days of this team having a Motel 6 vibe both as far as spending money and how they treat people are likely gone.  Ditto the days that the FO is either run by some incompetent but who is Dan's best buddy or by a coach centric model that isn't run by a FO person who is considered upper echelon.

 

I am not a big basketball guy I admit that.  I do watch the playoffs at times.  And yeah I saw both series for the Sixers including Harden's meltdown.  But still, 6 seasons in the playoffs in a row doesn't feel remotely Dan Snyderish or even Ron Riverish.    As you know he fired Rivers.

 

We are going from a dude who will buy a restaurant in the cheapest shopping area he can find, do nothing to help the building if its falling apart.  And then for the kicker, he will act like a douche to the employees and run the operation by fear fueling scapegoating and bringing a big time loser level bad culture -- to a dude who tries to do everything first class.  It should be a big difference over time.

 

 

 “He knows how to surround himself with great operating people and allow them to do what they do. When you’re in the private equity business, that’s really what you do. You structure a deal, and then you turn it over to great operators who are properly incentivized.”

 

And his success in business has come through more than just his own ability—it’s also, as Kraft says, in his ability to surround himself with the right people and weaponize them.

 

 

....Harris has also helped turn both franchises around.

He bought the Devils at a time when they were coming off the Martin Brodeur era (during which New Jersey made the playoffs in 19 of 20 years and won three Stanley Cups) and were in need of a serious overhaul. The remaking came with an investment in analytics, plus doing more to draw fans to the arena in Newark and, most importantly, in finding the right way to rebuild the roster. “He had to throw a lot of money at the Devils,” says Bettman.

It took time, but New Jersey now boasts one of the league’s most talented young cores, returning to the playoffs this spring for the first time in five years and even advancing a round.

 

...Philadelphia’s run of six straight playoff appearances is the franchise’s first since Julius Erving was on the roster, and it’s gotten out of the first round in five of those six years.

 

 

...Just as important is that Harris didn’t try to do any of it on his own. As was the case with Reaves and Mosaic, the tentpole principle on which he (and Blitzer) built out the Sixers and Devils was to find good people and empower them to do their jobs.

“He’s got that focus on, I want to make sure that I help on the most important decisions, and I want to make sure that I have all the right people around,” says Rubin. “He’s not a meddler on things that don’t matter. He’s focused on the big things that move the needle.”

 

...So to say Harris is dogged and determined to win would be an understatement.

“I consider him to be an animal, in the most positive of ways,” Rubin says. “Josh, he’s unrelenting. He’s going to do things in the right way.”

And in this particular case, his intensity most certainly won’t be ratcheted down.

 

...Silver knew then that Harris would fight hard to get the team, and then fight even harder to turn its fortunes around, if he could outlast the other bidders on it.

“This is somebody, to the extent that fans lose sleep when their team isn’t successful, I promise this guy is gonna lose more sleep than they do,” Silver said. “He takes it all seriously. I’ve talked to him the morning after tough losses, and one of the first things he’ll say to me is, I hardly slept last night. He’s tossing and turning all the time. Ownership of that team is as personal to him as it is to any hardcore fan. I want to assure [Commanders fans], this is not a professional investor coming in to create a portfolio of sports assets. And this team is very unique to him, in terms of the intensity of his fandom.”

 

...With that established, there’s plenty of reason to believe all those fans are getting the right one. Bettman pointed back to how he’s seen his grandchildren, raised in an area where Rangers fans go back generations, root for the Devils—in part because Harris has made them so present in New Jersey, through Learn to Play programs and community involvement, and in part because now, finally, they’re winning again.

It’s the totality of the work that impressed Bettman, and it’s what he, and all these others, can very easily envision carrying right over to the Commanders and the NFL.

“Look at the 76ers, look at the Devils,” Bettman said. “Josh will do whatever is necessary to ensure the Commanders are a competitive team, fan-focused and fan-friendly. He’ll put together a first-class organization and make whatever investments are necessary. … If I were a Commanders fan, I’d be really excited. Josh is gonna do great things with the franchise.”

And that fans in D.C. can actually believe that would be, well, a pretty significant first step for Harris. Because it’s been a very, very long time since they’ve felt that way.

Good post, well done. Harris is a players owner and an overall good owner at the overall package it takes (stadium, fan experience, culture, paying for top talent, etc..). He WILL stay out of the way of the football people. That being said, I wonder if he will entrust Magic Johnson to manage the competitive side of things....I believe thats possible but thats a total guess as Magic is involved with the Dodgers and Lakers I think. We should all be happy Harris is taking over, he'll listen to the fans and be a huge upgrade over Napoleon Dynamite. 

[Conn]

This is what I expected to happen, but I’m relieved that Howell is getting every single first team rep and there isn’t even any rumbles of Brissett “competing” really. He’s clearly the backup (as expected but you just never know with this team) 

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Probably the worst throw was [REDACTED] If he had led McLaurin outside, it would have been a probable TD. Terry was actually the most open on this one  of the three plays.  He had Diggs best to the outside and there was no safety closing.  Even a halfway descent throw to the outside and it’s a completion.  I’m not even sure if that was a noodle arm problem.  Well, kindof, the ball hung in the air for 7 seconds.  But more than that, it was a “I missed the target by 8 yards” problem.  God I’m glad his ass is in Atlanta.  

 

Wentz just has no idea where the ball is going.  He got the location right-ish, he was aiming for the honey hole between the CB and the safety.  But he overthrew it by about 5 yards. Still, at least he got it outside, which makes it better than [REDACTED]’s throw.  
 

Howell’s throw was perfect.  Can’t throw it any better.