The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randal 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Fromm battle for QB2 and so begins the Handsome Harem for Hartman

[Warhead36]

If you want to sustain success year in and year out you need really good QB play. Period.

 

The rest is just window dressing.

[RandyHolt]

58 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I love this trend of running the ball more. LOVE IT. iTs A pAsSiNg LeAgUe.

 

Run the ball and play aggressive defense.

 

I can't wait to watch @Voice_of_Reason head explode

 

I think you are gonna get your wish.

 

Its how we beat Philly and I clearly predict will be our preferred way to try to win games in 2023. But its not just the running ratio of 63% that day. I like the idea of coming out passing to start the game when really the coach is passing to set up the run. Its a myth that no defender can ever be fooled by play action without establishing the run game first. A run first team should go PA on the first play of game FAR more than they do. I love a deep throw on first down/early in games - back yer ass up boys we aren't running between the Ts on first every time.

 

Key take away: a coach that eye balls 60% runs HAS to avoid tendencies so will be forced to pass more than they want because a defense is stacking the box and stuffing it. The ebb and flow of the game scrambles that ratio. The Run Pass ratio the game ends with doesn't reflect what the coach wanted to do. I think i even heard EB say he wanted to run the ball. I bet he talked to Ron first.

Edited May 12, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Warhead36]

We beat Philly because they had a bunch of fluky turnovers and we got away with an obvious penalty.

[Koolblue13]

I'm not saying that you don't need a good QB. It's just nice that we're going back to a more well balanced offense. 

 

Almost every team on that list the passing went down from 21 to 22. 23 is gonna be the Ground and Pound Year!

[zCommander]

If you look at the stats I posted on the previous page you will notice that the Chiefs has been 60 passing and 40 running for the last two years. EB is here now. I would imagine he is not going to go for more running than passing. But could see the season starting with more running as Howell gets comfortable with the offense. 

[Conn]

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm not saying that you don't need a good QB. It's just nice that we're going back to a more well balanced offense. 

 

Almost every team on that list the passing went down from 21 to 22. 23 is gonna be the Ground and Pound Year!

Idk if you remember but in ‘21 the offseason was a joke, offenses went off that year bc teams were way less prepared imo. 
 

But I get what you’re saying, I may have misconstrued your last post a bit lol

[Koolblue13]

Just now, Conn said:

Idk if you remember but in ‘21 the offseason was a joke, offenses went off that year bc teams were way less prepared imo. 
 

But I get what you’re saying, I may have misconstrued your last post a bit lol

It's cool buddy.

[RandyHolt]

9 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

We beat Philly because they had a bunch of fluky turnovers and we got away with an obvious penalty.

 

Everyone knows turnover diff helps decides games. Heck it decides draft picks too apparently.  Fun fact: every single play helps decide the game. I think 150 yards rushing that day was a big factor in how we beat Philly... you remember who our QB was. He had 2 turnovers as it was and likely more if Ron let Turner play Norv ball. I think its wrong to assume a super bowl team cannot overcome a -2 TO diff and a penalty and beat a journey man QB and injury wrecked OL but whatever.

 

That aside we are talking overall philosophy for our new offense so why bother cherry picking 3 plays from 6 months ago... id rather you share your vision of Ron's offense in 2023 with a 5th round QB with 20 passes under his belt in a new offense and 2 porous pass pro OTs.

Edited May 13, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

 

[mh86]

51 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

Everyone knows turnover diff helps decides games. Heck it decides draft picks too apparently.  Fun fact: every single play helps decide the game. I think 150 yards rushing that day was a big factor in how we beat Philly... you remember who our QB was. He had 2 turnovers as it was and likely more if Ron let Turner to play Norv ball. I think its wrong to assume a super bowl team cannot overcome a -2 TO diff and a penalty and beat a journey man QB and injury wrecked OL but whatever.

 

That aside we are talking overall philosophy for our new offense so why bother cherry picking 3 plays from 6 months ago... id rather you share your vision of Ron's offense in 2023 with a 5th round QB with 20 passes under his belt in a new offense and 2 porous pass pro OTs.

We are very likely going to be a run heavy team. 

Young QB, new offense

two good/decent RBs and a rook

OC that used to be a RB and RB coach for many years and from what I can see during his OC stints in college they were run focused

 

just because he was under Reid doesn’t mean he’s going to call plays like Reid. It’s also a good idea to play to the teams strengths. We’ve invested heavily in the defense. We have a team full of old school coaches from HC, OC, to DC. Not saying they won’t think outside the box, but my guess would be lean on the run game and defense while controlling TOP

 

 

[MartinC]

29 minutes ago, mh86 said:

We are very likely going to be a run heavy team. 

 

 

I’m not so sure about that. Not sure we have the O’Line to just try to grind yards and take chunks off play action. I’m sure they don’t want Howell dropping back 40 times a game, but equally run run pass is not always a good way to protect your young QB - you can end up with a lot of 3rd and long attempts which is not where you want Howell to be too often.

 

1st down is the best down to pass on and being successful on first down is the key to 3rd down conversions - keep it to 3rd and manageable . If it was me I’d be looking to try to be balanced but with a tendency to passing more than running on first down. 

[Koolblue13]

 

[CobraCommander]

I really wanted Sam to play after the bye but I'm hoping it was all for the best that he wasn't the one to lose us the season. I'm hoping EB can get the most out of him and essentially redshirting him his first season is a blessing in disguise. I hated Turner's offense.

[mistertim]

14 minutes ago, CobraCommander said:

I really wanted Sam to play after the bye but I'm hoping it was all for the best that he wasn't the one to lose us the season. I'm hoping EB can get the most out of him and essentially redshirting him his first season is a blessing in disguise. I hated Turner's offense.

 

Yeah I think it was probably for the best. They clearly wanted him to clean up his footwork and it's probably easier to do that without also having to worry about game planning, etc. Especially for a rookie.

[mh86]

30 minutes ago, MartinC said:

I’m not so sure about that. Not sure we have the O’Line to just try to grind yards and take chunks off play action. I’m sure they don’t want Howell dropping back 40 times a game, but equally run run pass is not always a good way to protect your young QB - you can end up with a lot of 3rd and long attempts which is not where you want Howell to be too often.

 

1st down is the best down to pass on and being successful on first down is the key to 3rd down conversions - keep it to 3rd and manageable . If it was me I’d be looking to try to be balanced but with a tendency to passing more than running on first down. 

I agree 100% and I hope you’re right. I’m just kind of basing it off previous coach speak and a guesstimate. None of us will truly know until we’re deep into the season anyways.

 

I also think people look too hard at team stats like pass/run% without taking into account any of the other factors. Playing from behind, taking what opponents give, running clock, etc. however, there are teams that play super aggressive and keep attacking late in the game with a lead and it would be nice to have a QB that can allow us that luxury.

[method man]

What is the likelihood we sign Ta’amu after the XFL Championship? He’s been here and had two stints with EB

[EmirOfShmo]

[MartinC]

4 minutes ago, method man said:

What is the likelihood we sign Ta’amu after the XFL Championship? He’s been here and had two stints with EB

 

I would rather have him as the number #3 on the practice squad than Fromm. Then again I would rather have you as the #3 than Fromm.

[CTskins]

Randy Mueller and Matt Miller are getting a lot of play for their opinions on Howell, but after barely scratching the surface, I have my doubts as to their credibility.

 

For starters, had Howell declared for the 2021 draft, he was given 1st round grades in some circles. Even after his 2021 season didn't compare to '19 and '20, his decision to declare for 2022 was based on similar feedback. Did Washington really get a 1st rounder in the 5th? hmm. Maybe.

 

Miller compares Howell to Colt McCoy and rated him the 74th best prospect in the '22 draft. Why Colt McCoy? Similar build and "not great arm strength." Really? Did he watch highlights, let alone any games, from College? How about the Week 18 game vs Dallas? What is this weak arm of which ye speaks? Also, the 74 overall ranked prospect / 32 team selections per round = 2.31. Did Washington really get a high 3rd rounder in the 5th? Seems a bit more reasonable, but still really good value.

 

Mueller was far more...let's say abstract...in his assessment.

"I do know this from a team building standpoint, [Howell] I believe was a fifth-round pick and I did study him coming out and he's played one game. So there would be doubt in my mind, one in how did he end up falling to the fifth round if the skills are of starter quality, so I would have concerns there...And when I saw him on tape I would concur with those, I didn't see the NFL acumen as far as skillsets physically go." (Me: He had NFL caliber players filling skill positions at UNC in '19 and '20, who were not there in '21. Also Mueller's is not an opinion that I'd rely upon too much. He hasn't been associated with an NFL franchise since 2018 and was the same GM who traded his entire draft for the opportunity to pick Ricky Williams.).

 

I've seen other comments as well that ask if Howell was so special to be given the reigns after a single start, then why not start him earlier? The answer is mainly financial. Wentz was still viewed as the QB1 (Narrator: He isn't. Wasn't. Probably won't be again) upon arrival, and was, more importantly, being paid as such. Washington caught a break when he went down and Heinicke went on a run. The reality is that Wentz should never had been re-inserted as the starter. So when he failed to lead Washington to the playoffs, it only made sense for Heinicke to stand down in favor of Howell. Heinicke knows the struggles of a low expectations QB. OTOH, he'd already made his money and was going to make more in free agency, whether by re-signing with Washington or from another team.

 

Finally, it's not as if Dallas allowed Howell to outplayed his expectations. They were still playing for seed and Howell still completed nearly 60% of his passes, accounted for over 200 yards and 2 TDs. I might be crazy, but Slye's missed field goals were a more glaring concern than Howell's performance.

[Darth Tater]

1 hour ago, CobraCommander said:

I really wanted Sam to play after the bye but I'm hoping it was all for the best that he wasn't the one to lose us the season. I'm hoping EB can get the most out of him and essentially redshirting him his first season is a blessing in disguise. I hated Turner's offense.

Problem is that we don't know if Sam Howell was ready at the time. Also, Turner ran the offense. Renner mentioned that he thought Howell fell because coaches were unsure of his ability to figure out blitz pickup. Both Kurt Warner and JT O'Sullivan weren't sure of his footwork (both thought it went out at the weirdest times).  Possibly all coach-able issues but not sure. It would have taken time to find out and fix the problems.  We still had a very good shot at a playoff spot and, even when you have mediocre to sub-par QB play, you don't bench a guy whose put you back in the race. We then were still in the race but were unhappy with TH so you go with the guy you thought was the guy. If we'd beaten Cleveland or the Giants, I don't think Howell would have started against Dallas.

 

[Bifflog]

2 hours ago, EmirOfShmo said:

 

This is a thought I have had but didn't want to verbalize.  Sometimes **** is just cosmic.

Edited May 12, 2023 by Bifflog

[method man]

2 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

I would rather have him as the number #3 on the practice squad than Fromm. Then again I would rather have you as the #3 than Fromm.

Fromm is crap. I hope Ta’amu gets a chance. I admire the way he has grinded it out in the minor leagues and worked on his weaknesses. His big knock was his processing ability, which has clearly gotten better. The guy has NFL size, an NFL arm and is mobile

1 hour ago, Darth Tater said:

Problem is that we don't know if Sam Howell was ready at the time. Also, Turner ran the offense. Renner mentioned that he thought Howell fell because coaches were unsure of his ability to figure out blitz pickup. Both Kurt Warner and JT O'Sullivan weren't sure of his footwork (both thought it went out at the weirdest times).  Possibly all coach-able issues but not sure. It would have taken time to find out and fix the problems.  We still had a very good shot at a playoff spot and, even when you have mediocre to sub-par QB play, you don't bench a guy whose put you back in the race. We then were still in the race but were unhappy with TH so you go with the guy you thought was the guy. If we'd beaten Cleveland or the Giants, I don't think Howell would have started against Dallas.

 

Supposedly his team interviews were weird too with a lot of unnatural scripted answers

[mistertim]

5 hours ago, CTskins said:

Miller compares Howell to Colt McCoy and rated him the 74th best prospect in the '22 draft. Why Colt McCoy? Similar build and "not great arm strength." Really? Did he watch highlights, let alone any games, from College?

 

This is where I basically tuned it out. Howell has a cannon and anyone who has watched him can see it. Take that dime he threw to Terry vs Dallas. It was 60 yards in the air and looked borderline effortless for him.

[kingdaddy]

On 5/12/2023 at 11:44 AM, Warhead36 said:

We beat Philly because they had a bunch of fluky turnovers and we got away with an obvious penalty.

Time of possession:

WSH: 40:24

PHI: 19:36

That's why we beat Phlly.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

19 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Time of possession:

WSH: 40:24

PHI: 19:36

That's why we beat Phlly.

We beat Philly because they are the scum of the ****ing earth. 
 

If Howell can play and our draft class pans out, I can see a rebirth of our rivalry with Philly. Could be awesome.