The most important position in the game. And the lack of investment in that position.

[bowhunter]

If our defense was remotely close to average, TH would be all we needed. We need to spend capital on freaking coaching. The fact that we routinely spot the opposition two scores every game (at least two of either 40yd broken coverage pass and/or opening possession.)

 

But Ill play along. Andy Reid is pretty good at coaching, how many QBs did the Chiefs draft in the past 2 years??

[carex]

the problem is up to RG3 we'd spent multiple picks on QBs in a decade, in Patrick Ramsey, Jason Campbell and RG3.  And both Campbell and RG3 took multiple picks as they were trade ups.  Meanwhile with Griffin and Cousins on the roster we had about six years where one of the two of them seemed to be the future so we should not have drafted another QB.  I'd say it was only after 2017 that we should have considered drafting the QB position

[profusion]

The problem isn't how many QBs the Redskins drafted, but in who they've drafted and then how they've supported/developed those guys once on the team.

 

There's no magic formula for this. Different franchises have had differing successful strategies, but it all boils down to having an excellent FO that can identify the college QBs who are the best fit for the team's culture and strategy and that can also put together an offense and coaching staff to complement that QB. There are no "plug-and-play" strategies in football. It all has to work together.

 

What I'm sure we can all agree on is that the WFT's strategy/method sucks:

• Draft a first-round QB that the head coach doesn't want but that the owner (or his kid) likes.
• Said QB then gets to be golden boy for a couple years and doesn't necessarily have to follow coach's orders.
• When Golden Boy QB washes out, play the JAGs sitting behind him for a while and then scramble around to trade for a nearly washed-up vet.
• When the vet breaks down or washes out, go back to Step 1 and repeat.

That recipe describes the Redskins/WFT basically since Patrick Ramsey was drafted. Maybe not 100% accurate, but close to it.

 

It obviously doesn't work, but the alternative is for the owner to butt out after hiring a professional FO that gets multiple years to put things right. That's what we were promised with Ron's hiring...we'll see.

Edited October 11, 2021 by profusion

[Renegade7]

9 hours ago, Redd said:

You forgot to mention we traded many draft picks for RG3. We still feel the effects to this very day.

Yea, I'd argue we are investing but not getting a return on our investment. 

[method man]

Honestly, given how weak this QB class is, I’d rather trade a 2nd rd pick for a few years of Matt Ryan vs draft Howell, Ridder or Rattler (this team is not going to be in a position to take Wills or Corral). 
 

If Russ wants to be on the move this offseason and is the least bit interested in coming home, I trade 3 1sts for him

[profusion]

44 minutes ago, method man said:

Honestly, given how weak this QB class is, I’d rather trade a 2nd rd pick for a few years of Matt Ryan vs draft Howell, Ridder or Rattler (this team is not going to be in a position to take Wills or Corral). 
 

If Russ wants to be on the move this offseason and is the least bit interested in coming home, I trade 3 1sts for him

 

That's essentially the strategy the Rams are pursuing in replacing Goff with Stafford. The difference is that the Rams are a contender right now and needed a QB capable of taking them the final distance this year and next.

 

The WFT is years away from being a contender. Trading for the last couple viable years of a Matt Ryan or Aaron Rodgers is simply repeating the Mark Brunell/Alex Smith strategy that has failed repeatedly in Washington. There's also essentially zero chance that a QB in his prime like Russell Wilson would choose the WFT as his destination. He'll go to a contender and have his choice of good landing spots if he absolutely can't stand to stay in Seattle.

 

Ron seems to understand that. Fitzpatrick was signed to a reasonable one-year deal as a stopgap when Ron couldn't get anyone better. I'm sure he wants to draft the next guy up (assuming he wants to stick around at all--I'm not 100% sure of that based strictly on his sideline demeanor), and I doubt he'll trade for a longer-term option. He might trade up for a draft pick, though.

Edited October 11, 2021 by profusion

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I entirely disagree that we haven't invested in the most important position on the team.  The problem is we've invested very poorly.  If you were to put up all we've invested in the QB position over the last 10 years - from draft picks, trading pieces, and cash, it would rank very highly.  However, the return on our investments ranks incredibly low. 

 

And for those talking about investing however many 1st round picks to get Rodgers or Wilson, you live in La La Land.  There is absolutely zero chance that Rodgers or Wilson would choose to come here.  It's really not even worth discussing.  Why would they choose here? Worst owner in sports, dump of a stadium, dump facilities, there's just nothing enticing about coming here.

[50yrSKINSfan]

10 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

I posted this in the gameday thread. And it actually shocked me when I went and looked at it. In the past decade this is the draft investment this franchise has made in the most important position on the field. Think about that for a minute. Qb's are the lifeblood of a football team. And this franchise has basically invested nothing in it. 

 

2012: RG3. Not big. Not strong. AMAZING arm. Ended in failure. Cousins. Decent. Not big or strong. And mediocre arm.

2013: No QB drafted.

2014: No QB drafted. 

2015: No QB drafted.

2016: Nate Sudfeld. 6th round. A JAG.

2017: No QB drafted.

2018: No QB drafted.

2019: Haskins. Not big or strong. Decent arm but a clown. 

2020: No QB drafted.

2021: NO QB drafted.

 

So we have drafted FOUR QB's in the past decade TOTAL. One was an incredibly talented headcase that refused to run his coaches system, One was an OK QB who was a money grubbing POS and left to another team to fleece them of 100 million dollars for nothing,  one is a backup who has done absolutely nothing and one is a head case who currently resides in Pittsburgh and is one season away from being unemployed. Where have we spent ANY draft capital at all on real QB's?

Poor decisions are why we are where we are. When you do not have a franchise QB you have to keep drafting a QB every year until you get one. Picking up a vet retread is ok but not ideal for the long term. We had the chance last year when we had the 2nd pick but passed on 2 good prospects to take a pass rusher. Fine, CY is a decent prospect but look a Herbert. The guy is all world. What were our scouts looking at?  Again, another poor decision 

[Warhead36]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I entirely disagree that we haven't invested in the most important position on the team.  The problem is we've invested very poorly.  If you were to put up all we've invested in the QB position over the last 10 years - from draft picks, trading pieces, and cash, it would rank very highly.  However, the return on our investments ranks incredibly low.

Agree 100% with this. We have invested in the position, we just took the wrong guys. The one time we got it right in Cousins, we let him go.

[dyst]

9 hours ago, Barry.Randolphe said:

The team will get a top 5 pick this year and as fate would have it, the QB class sucks ass. It never fails  

This is exactly what will happen. 

[50yrSKINSfan]

2 hours ago, bowhunter said:

If our defense was remotely close to average, TH would be all we needed. We need to spend capital on freaking coaching. The fact that we routinely spot the opposition two scores every game (at least two of either 40yd broken coverage pass and/or opening possession.)

 

But Ill play along. Andy Reid is pretty good at coaching, how many QBs did the Chiefs draft in the past 2 years??

Once you get your franchise QB you can spend your high draft capital on other positions. Look at the Steelers, that got Ben what 20 years ago and have not had to waste high picks on a QB since. Same with the Pats, Packers etc.

[NoVaSkins21]

The outlook is bleak when it comes the QB position (what they have on the team and the QB class coming out)  It's going to be rough as it has been for the last 30 years.  

[Redd]

WFT has tried to address the quarterback situation.  Even going so far as to trade away two future first rounds picks to get a franchise quarterback.  They just haven't worked out.  It's frustrating but not for lack of trying. Tried again in the first round with Haskins a few years back and he wasn't the guy.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Redd

[Spaceman Spiff]

I think next year they should just draft 7 quarterbacks (or however many picks we've got).  One will fall out of there.   

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

The problem is Dan Snyder.

 

We had a guy that looked like the QB of the future but Dan had to get a man crush on him.

 

We had a guy that looked like the QB of the future but Dan alienated him because he wasn’t his type.

 

We wasted a first round pick on a guy who never looked like the QB of the future despite all the people who know Football telling Dan exactly what was gonna happen because he wanted his son to feel the same power he does by being able to destroy an nfl organization. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[profusion]

55 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Once you get your franchise QB you can spend your high draft capital on other positions. Look at the Steelers, that got Ben what 20 years ago and have not had to waste high picks on a QB since. Same with the Pats, Packers etc.

 

The Steelers were already a quality organization and winning team when they drafted Ben in the lower 1st round. Yes, they needed a QB and had been making due at the position for a long time, but Ben walked onto what was already a playoff team and turned it into a contender.

 

Same with the Pats and Packers, basically.

 

People forget that Brady didn't singlehandedly turn the Pats into a good team. They'd already been to a SB under Parcells only a few years before and had a top-shelf starting QB in Drew Bledsoe in his prime along with a playoff-caliber roster. Brady took it to the next level, but let's also remember that Belicheck was wise enough to reorient to "power football" and not try to overextend Brady while he was in his early stages. 

 

The Packers were already on the upswing when they traded for Favre in 1992, and of course they were able to let Rodgers sit for several years after drafting him (probably a year or two too long, actually).

 

None of this resembles where the WFT is right now. We're more in the perennial bumbler category like the Jets and Lion than in the almost-there stage like those teams above were.

[Riggo-toni]

Since 1999, we have used 7 first rounders on QBs, 3 seconds, 3 thirds, 3 fourths, and numerous day 3 picks. We have wasted a fortune on QBs with nothing to show for it.

 

The last time the Redskins drafted a playoff winning QB in the first round was 1937.

[CobraCommander]

11 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

Since 1999, we have used 7 first rounders on QBs, 3 seconds, 3 thirds, 3 fourths, and numerous day 3 picks. We have wasted a fortune on QBs with nothing to show for it.

 

The last time the Redskins drafted a playoff winning QB in the first round was 1937.

We should probably just not try anymore. Let's keep trading for Washed up vets and bringing in 38 year old FA's.

[Riggo-toni]

1999 Brad Johnson - 1,2,3

2000 Todd Husak - 6

2001 Sage Rosenfels 4

2002 Ramsey -1 , trade 7th for Wuerfel 

2003? Gibran Hamdan 7. Can't remember what year we drafted him

2004 Brunell 3

2005 Campbell 1,3, 4

2006,2007 Jordan Palmer, Colt Brennan... can't remember if these were 6 or 7

2009 McGnat 2, 5

2012 RG3 Three 1s and a 2, Cousins 4

 

2017 - 3rd, Kendall Fuller, and a monster contract for Alex Smith

2019 Haskins 1

I am probably missing some in here .

 

Until we get a competent GM running the show, as opposed to a clown car or an all powerful head coach, this exercise in futility will continue.

[Captain Wiggles]

2016 Nate Sudfeld 6

2020 Kyle Allen 5

 

Ugh lot of terrible terrible QBs. 😔

 

 

[NoCalMike]

Isn't the main issue with the QB position the fact that Dan Snyder has strong-armed whoever he is enamored with into being drafted regardless of either price or coaches not wanting that person?

[Riggo-toni]

1 hour ago, NoCalMike said:

Isn't the main issue with the QB position the fact that Dan Snyder has strong-armed whoever he is enamored with into being drafted regardless of either price or coaches not wanting that person?

Definitely the case with Haskins and Ramsey, as well as the signings of Jeff George, Shane Matthews, and Rob Johnson. 

 

On the other hand, it was Gibbs who was in love with Campbell, and as much as he tried to play it off later, it was Shamahan the lobsterman who wanted RGIII... though Snyder made that situation worse afterwards by becoming RG3's BFF, undercutting the coaches.

[CjSuAvE22]

 

4 hours ago, Riggo-toni said:

it was Shamahan the lobsterman who wanted RGIII... though Snyder made that situation worse afterwards by becoming RG3's BFF, undercutting the coaches.

I disagree, the reports were Shanny wanted Tannehill....and didn't view RGIII as an NFL starting perennial contender hence the Kirk Cousins pick in the same draft....

[Dark Acre]

On 10/10/2021 at 11:04 PM, Koolblue13 said:

Oh we should draft a great QB. Why didn't anyone else think of that?

 

Yes, 4 1rsts and a 2nd+ is more than we have on the d line.

I keep saying we should be playing a 5-man DL.  Draft a beast of a NT, flank him with Payne and Allen with Sweat and Young on the edges.  If we're not going to win for lack of a franchise QB, we might as well overmax our DL since that's where the fun should be.

[London Kev]

10 hours ago, Riggo-toni said:

1999 Brad Johnson - 1,2,3

2000 Todd Husak - 6

2001 Sage Rosenfels 4

2002 Ramsey -1 , trade 7th for Wuerfel 

2003? Gibran Hamdan 7. Can't remember what year we drafted him

2004 Brunell 3

2005 Campbell 1,3, 4

2006,2007 Jordan Palmer, Colt Brennan... can't remember if these were 6 or 7

2009 McGnat 2, 5

2012 RG3 Three 1s and a 2, Cousins 4

 

2017 - 3rd, Kendall Fuller, and a monster contract for Alex Smith

2019 Haskins 1

I am probably missing some in here .

 

Until we get a competent GM running the show, as opposed to a clown car or an all powerful head coach, this exercise in futility will continue.

 

I have absolutely zero recollection of Gibran Hamdan, I even googled him to check that you wasn't making him up .

 

Even with the addition of Sudfield and Allen, that is a depressing list.