Death of a Fanbase

[Boss_Hogg]

You think yesterday was bad...wait until December 12. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

11 hours ago, SkipJackSkin said:

^ I don't disagree with your overall sentiment, but are you essentially saying Dan is just an idiot himself? Isn't it in his best interest to have a winning team, to make a great fan experience, etc?

Yeah, and it would be in my best interest to have curly blonde hair but it ain’t gonna happen.

[Csup]

38 minutes ago, kleese said:

Lots of random thoughts on this… 

 

—OP is correct… fanbase isn’t dying, it’s dead. And death is final. It cannot under any circumstance be brought back to life— not even with a new owner. What COULD happen is a rebirth of sorts. This is why the name change might work in their favor. You have lost an entire generation of potential fans— we have almost no young fans. And you’ve alienated a huge chunk of your previously loyal base. So now you need new people. At this rate, that isn’t happening. New name, new stadium, that stuff could help spawn something new. But it’s going to take years, maybe decades. No quick fix here. 
 

—I am a non-local fan. WFT fans are a little unique there— it’s not as geographic in terms of loyalty as other teams. The Bills prior to the last couple of years had been worse than us for 20 years. Lions are somehow still worse than us. Both have ownership issues over years. But their fanbase hasn’t wavered the way ours has in large part due to that geographic loyalty. Buffalo and Detroit have STRONG cultural loyalties among the people from those areas. DC is a unique spot. Lots and lots of people (like me) “adopted” the Redskins during the Glory years— I’ve never gotten the impression there is a super strong city loyalty among our base likely due to the transient nature of the area. Makes it easier to bail. 
 

—FedEx is really bad and the majority of that has nothing to do with Snyder. It offers nothing fun or interesting in terms of experience. It’s a pain to get to, there is nothing around it, aesthetics suck, nothing cool has ever happened there, etc so the ONLY reason to go is to watch an NFL game. Most other stadiums in the league offer other things— if not amenities and location, then history. What a colossal mistake by JKC. Yes, if we were really good over these years the place would be full and people wouldn’t hate it as much. Of course. But it’s an extra challenge to overcome— you need to get people to come IN SPITE of your stadium. And you’re already trying to get them to come IN SPITE of your team. Bad combo. 
 

—As others have stated, non-local fans still roll out fairly strong and generally seem a bit less jaded. Probably because non local fans were never there to experience the area when things were good so that’s one thing they aren’t missing. 
 

—I’m old— 44 and experienced the 80s and early 90s as a very young fan. My passion personally has not wavered. Not at all actually. But it’s been a conscious decision/action on my part. Because football is only 17 weeks (18 now I guess) and it is so rhythmic, it has become a massive part of my life. And I’ve chosen to have it remain a positive. If you ask me “have I enjoyed being a fan the past 25 years?” The answer is yes. Unequivocally. I’ve had a great time. It’s a tortured existence with a TON of frustration and disappointment, but I still enjoy the rhythm of it and the pangs of hope and occasional good moments. I am under no delusions about our owner or situation. I have just chosen to not let them ruin for it. I get why others bail. I dont blame them, but I do feel a bit bad for them. Sucks that it’s gotten to that point for so many. For me, I woke up Sunday, geared up, had the TVs set up on the deck, made some Gumbo in honor of playing NOLA, watched the London game, and watched our game with my son— who is getting into it this year for the first time. We had a really fun moment last week at the end vs Atlanta— yesterday was super frustrating and felt like so many other games over the years. But I still enjoyed the build up to the game, etc. This week I’ll make jokes all week about how we will get shredded by KC (we will) but I’ll still enjoy the process and sit down at noon with that 5% part of my brain that will have some hope we can do something memorable. 
 

—At this point I take some pride in the fact that I’m still plugging away. With so few of us left, I accept my place as an unwavering fan. It’s part of who I am and what I do and I feel like it’s up to ME to make the most of it because I obviously can’t depend on them. I figure if they are ever good again in my lifetime that it will feel even better that I stuck around. Maybe that’s it. I’m afraid if I bail and then they ever see glory again, it won’t feel as great because I let it die. So I just keep at it. Eventually I’m gonna check out from this world and I’ve spent so much time on this that I better keep it an overall positive experience.. or else, man, that’s sad. 
 

—Even just this season, I’ve paced my deck twice at the end of games, nervous as hell, and then ecstatic to win at the end. Those reactions are mostly involuntary but I guess set up by the conscious practice to continue to care. And chasing those moments is still worth it to me— even as fleeting as they are. And if at some point this year we find ourselves sitting at 3-10 or whatever, well, then I’ll check out emotionally for those remaining games and save it up for the next year. 

It’s interesting how different people handle these type of things.  I’m older than you- 57.  I have been a fan since the Skins lost to the Dolphins in the Super Bowl.  The Skins had a 20 year run of bring relevant snd were for the most part a factor season in season out.  I specifically remember thinking how lucky I was that I was a fan of a well-run organization.

 

That was a long time ago.  Harvard should create a Business Case on how to kill a brand.  Because that is the one thing Synder excelled at in his time as owner.   

 

[tomwvr]

My son is 31 I am 54 every year for as long as I can remember (I remember seeing Sonny play)  I have gone to atleast one game. When my son was 1 Frank, Sam and Sonny all wished him a happy first birthday. We recorded the radio over the tv broad cast and have that on a vhs some place.

We took my son to games since he was old enough to attend - his first game at RFK he thought the marching band was chickens (last row at the top), he has gone to games every year since then. This year he said I want to go to a few caps games don’t want to go to skins games.

 

 

 

[Redskin21502]

I gave up my season tickets a few years ago and vowed to never step foot in FedEx ever again. Sounds like it has only gotten worse. I did go see the team play in Miami two years ago as I was down there for a college game the day before they played. I'd go to an away game before going to FedEx.

[skinfan2k]

as someone who travels to see this team, this team/stadium is pathetic to watch at home. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

The fanbase didn't die. It was murdered.

[Hdf561]

Like every failing organization it all starts at the top….The owner is an absolute moron. They continue to make bad organizational decisions from the coaching hires, to drafting players, to free agents, changing the name etc. 

 

I’ll be 40 in 3 months and I remember most of the good times specifically 87 and 91, I have jerseys, autographs, etc. 

 

And as a fan I could even put up with the apathy, poor decisions, etc. but when they took the name they killed it, at least we still had the history of the name but now it’s some ****ized version and to me the Redskins are dead this Washington Football team isn’t them, and IMO has zero right to claim anything done under that name. So why would anyone root for this “team”. I have attended probably 30 games in my life and turned down a chance to sit front row a few weeks ago because the hassle of driving their and putting up with ****ty people in a ****ty stadium isn’t appealing at all, and that’s before you get to the in field product it’s bad before kick off even happens! 
 

Why do I still post and even follow along with this “team”? I’m a Washington sports fan I root for the caps, Nats, wizards, DC United I was at the Stanley cup parade and the World Series parade, so I’ll probably just stop watching all together before I become a fan of another team. However I don’t have any new merchandise and have zero intention of going to a game any time soon. So far the only joy I get out of Washington football these days is cashing my bet when they lose (it’s made me a ton of cash).

 

what’s the future hold who knows but I really think it could be over, if they sold the team and moved it, I wouldn’t be surprised in the least and honestly it would be better so I could move on with no guilt. 
 

however forever HTTR but **** this new “team” whatever it is. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, Hdf561 said:

however forever HTTR but **** this new “team” whatever it is.

I get your angst for the team in general but can’t quite grasp the quoted part.

 

20 years of Dan Snyder killed HTTR.  Bruce Allen’s presser the day they fired Jay, where he said the culture was damn good and to check Doug’s timesheet, that was the nail in the coffin.

 

You’ve witnessed the death of a brand, not a team name.

 

 

[Cooleyfan1993]

49 minutes ago, Boss_Hogg said:

You think yesterday was bad...wait until December 12. 

December 12th? That’s when we play the raiders right? Or is that December 4th? 

[Dissident2]

I agree the stadium and the experience that goes with it is horrible. But that's not at all the biggest problem. The problem is the franchise itself. I remember being at the 2005 game against Dallas where we utterly destroyed them 35-7 or something like that. THAT was an amazing atmosphere, very reminiscent of RFK. The place was packed with Skins fans and everyone was going absolutely wild. It was by far the best FedEx experience I've ever had, and it was proof that even with all its faults, that place could still be home to a great fan experience if the product on the field wasn't out to eat your soul every week. 

 

Not giving that garbage stadium a pass at all, but it's the least of our concerns. As long as Danya remains, there is no hope for this franchise. It's like painting over dry rot. 

[Boss_Hogg]

3 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

December 12th? That’s when we play the raiders right? Or is that December 4th? 

 

America's bandwagon on December 12

[Cooleyfan1993]

2 minutes ago, Boss_Hogg said:

 

America's bandwagon on December 12

Ohh right. Yeah. That ones gonna suck...cowboys fans taking over the stadium. Not looking forward to that 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, Dissident2 said:

I agree the stadium and the experience that goes with it is horrible. But that's not at all the biggest problem. The problem is the franchise itself. I remember being at the 2005 game against Dallas where we utterly destroyed them 35-7 or something like that. THAT was an amazing atmosphere, very reminiscent of RFK. The place was packed with Skins fans and everyone was going absolutely wild. It was by far the best FedEx experience I've ever had, and it was proof that even with all its faults, that place could still be home to a great fan experience if the product on the field wasn't out to eat your soul every week. 

 

Not giving that garbage stadium a pass at all, but it's the least of our concerns. As long as Danya remains, there is no hope for this franchise. It's like painting over dry rot. 

I was also at that game.  Pre stubhub days, paid 1.5x face value from a dude off Craigslist. You are absolutely correct, those Gibbs II years were electric, even if the team wasn’t.

 

That said it tends to feel like it wasn’t as long ago as it really was.  We’ve been downright dreadful since then.  And not just dreadful in the win column, but in likability.  No stars minus RG3 and Bruce Allen was the head stooge for the guy everyone already hates to begin with.  We’ve lost an entire generation of fans in that gap between Gibbs II and now.

Beyond that, the at-home experience for watching games has improved tenfold since then.  

 

I just don’t see how it would be possible to ever restore what we once had.  Winners or not.

[TheGoodBits]

I joined this forum after the 2007 season to express my opinions about the coaching search. That was a critical period for the franchise. The team had made the playoff for 2 out of the last 3 years but wasn’t quite a contender yet. They’d also pulled off a miracle playoff run after Sean Taylor’s death. And suddenly their coach was gone. Continuity seemed to be the right approach. Let Gregg Williams ascend to the HC spot and keep growing. Hiring Zorn obviously turned out to be a disaster. Not the first disaster under Snyder but arguably the biggest, at the most crucial juncture. 
 

A fanbase can only be given hope and have it ripped away so many times before apathy sets in. Since then we’ve tried hiring literal Hall of Fame coaches, highly respected coaches, we’ve drafted first round QBs, hell we’ve even been given the insane optimism that came from 2012. Only to have it snatched away so quickly the following year. Those are BRUTAL ups and downs. Absolutely brutal. I was so beaten down that I literally wasn’t excited at all about the next rookie QB we drafted (Haskins). From the minute we selected him he was just the next bust QB to me. 
 

Last year I reluctantly came back around to the team. They were implementing a tried and true formula for success by investing in a dominant defense and it was starting to show in the results. They sucked me back in. I was optimistic for the first time in years. And look where we are now.  Thankfully, it’s easy for me to emotionally divest. I don’t get upset when they lose anymore, or when they suck. Life’s too short to tie your mental well-being to the Washington football franchise. 

 

All this to say, i was once an extremely loyal, dedicated fan. I still follow this damn team every year. But I don’t care that much anymore. I haven’t bought gear in years. You’d have to pay me to go to a game at fedex. And now that the season is lost, again, I’m going to allow myself to find other things to do on Sunday afternoons. Not saying I won’t watch at all, just that I won’t let the games dictate my weekend schedule. I’m free again, perfectly apathetic and happy to be free of the clutches of this crappy team for another year. 

[ThomasRoane]

@BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93

 

I'm going to the Chiefs game with my son-in-law and 3 of my 5 kids.  We bought tix in in July and only because the team showed some heart last year.  We hadn't been to a game since 2008.  We used to go quite regularly but after driving all the way from Hampton and then all the way back after watching our team get embarrassed got old.  I think the fans could put up with a lot if the product on the field was worth watching.  Hell, RFK was a major dump in comparison to FedEx.  But the product on the field was amazing!!!  You know under Gibbs that your team would fight their guts out.  You rarely saw opposing fans because they knew their team would get stomped.  Now?  Hell, on average Washington has been everybody's homecoming.  

 

I really hope Rivera can right the ship.  Most of my kids are around your age.  Two of the 5 have checked out entirely.  Two are pretty ambivalent.  Only one left is my youngest and he is on the edge of jumping ship.  Over 20 years of futility takes its toll on the fan.  If the team had a reputation of being gutsy like last year I think they'd be fine remaining fans.  When they lay eggs like yesterday though its understandable why my kids are not devout fans.  

Edited October 11, 2021 by ThomasRoane

[Burgold]

Paraphrasing Cyndi Lauper. 

 

I just wanna have fun. That's all I really want. Oh, Redskins' Fans just wanna have fun.

[kingdaddy]

13 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Paraphrasing Cyndi Lauper. 

 

I just wanna have fun. That's all I really want. Oh, Redskins' Fans just wanna have fun.

Had we any sort of defense I think this season would've been fun. What a disappointment this defense has been. Supposed to be a top 5 defense and they are clearly bottom 5. 

 

[ThomasRoane]

Unrelated but important question.

 

We're staying in Landover Saturday night.  Any suggestions on a good local restaurant?  Not a chain!  Preferably seafood.  TIA!

[Wildbunny]

17 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

 

It just hurts my heart how bad things have gotten. It should be nearly impossible to do but Snyder managed to do it. 
 

God speed Jason Wright. It will literally take a miracle. I’m not sure a fun name or even a new stadium can help. 

Somehow, the fact that Snyder is now the sole majority owner makes it easier to sell the team.

Everything you pinned in your post is spot on. And that's been noted the previous year that the market is declining fast.

 

If Snyder and his buddies fail on the name change, and attendance goes even south, I wouldn't be surprised to see the NFL go under the radar and force someone like Bezos into buying the team to get rid of Snyder.

They probably don't have the legal power to do it publicly, but they could tip his hand and help in it... Some reports may find their ways to WP or something, oops...

 

I hardly don't see them liking the fact that numbers are going down so fast in Washington. At some point, they'll have to do something, because that's not good advertisment for the NFL.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

37 minutes ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

I don’t get upset when they lose anymore, or when they suck. Life’s too short to tie your mental well-being to the Washington football franchise. 

 

All this to say, i was once an extremely loyal, dedicated fan. I still follow this damn team every year. But I don’t care that much anymore. I haven’t bought gear in years. You’d have to pay me to go to a game at fedex. And now that the season is lost, again, I’m going to allow myself to find other things to do on Sunday afternoons. Not saying I won’t watch at all, just that I won’t let the games dictate my weekend schedule. I’m free again, perfectly apathetic and happy to be free of the clutches of this crappy team for another year. 

This is me in a nutshell, however I haven't crossed over into won't let the game dictate my weekend territory.  I still feel obligated to watch.  But the emotional side of it is gone.  I actually kind of miss it, even though it was negative emotions more often than not.

[BudLighticke]

Losing to the Saints to go 2-3 is what has everyone mailing it in? 
 

Frustrating loss and an overall really frustrating team to watch and follow over the years. But if for example terry gets his toe down we’re maybe talking about a different game, and everyone would be celebrating in the Heineke Hive thread instead. (I’m not trying to play the what If game, just pointing out how different the vibe could be with a play here or there).

 

I guess what I’m trying to say is that I’d understand the sentiment of this thread more so if we got rolled 35-0. 
 

I do get the frustration though, we are so snake bitten. Any other team in the league with these defensive pieces wouldn’t be this bad. It’s almost just comical at this point.

[kleese]

13 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

This is me in a nutshell, however I haven't crossed over into won't let the game dictate my weekend territory.  I still feel obligated to watch.  But the emotional side of it is gone.  I actually kind of miss it, even though it was negative emotions more often than not.

I’m glad this hasn’t happened to me. I figure the day I no longer really care if they lose, is probably the same day I no longer really care if they win, which is then the day I just no longer care. If I ever get to a point where I feel emotionless towards the team, I’ll be out. I feel like I’m in control of that though, so hoping it never gets there. 

4 minutes ago, BudLighticke said:

Losing to the Saints to go 2-3 is what has everyone mailing it in? 
 

Frustrating loss and an overall really frustrating team to watch and follow over the years. But if for example terry gets his toe down we’re maybe talking about a different game, and everyone would be celebrating in the Heineke Hive thread instead. (I’m not trying to play the what If game, just pointing out how different the vibe could be with a play here or there).

 

I guess what I’m trying to say is that I’d understand the sentiment of this thread more so if we got rolled 35-0. 
 

I do get the frustration though, we are so snake bitten. Any other team in the league with these defensive pieces wouldn’t be this bad. It’s almost just comical at this point.

To your point, no it’s not JUST about this loss of course, or this season… however, I do think there might be some underlying disingenuous posts here— people venting about “not caring” when it appears they still do. And for those that say it’s not just about the losing— let’s be 100% honest— if we were 5-0 right now, this thread wouldn’t exist. I mean it when I said the fanbase is dead— the numbers just aren’t there anymore. But winning would absolutely quiet the complaints and there would be at least a few more in the stands. 

[RichmondRedskin88]

I watch but I just don’t care.  I watch plenty of games with my dad who remembers the great times.  He yells at the TV and such but I just sit there indifferent then go back to working on whatever I was doing while watching the game (I usually work on my tablet during the game these days.).  I was born late 80s.  I don’t remember any glory years.  I remember being picked on at school for wearing Brian Mitchell and Terry Allen jerseys.  Cowboy fans were everywhere in Northern VA.  Amazing I punished myself like that constantly wearing their jerseys to school as a kid when they were constantly awful. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by RichmondRedskin88

[Die Hard]

30 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

I hardly don't see them liking the fact that numbers are going down so fast in Washington. At some point, they'll have to do something, because that's not good advertisment for the NFL.

That’s just wishful thinking. The NFL has never had a problem with the Mike Brown’s (Bungles) and the Mark Davis’ (Raiders) of the NFL franchises. Every sport, every league has a few whipping boy and hard luck franchises (Bills). And they’re all doing pretty fine these days with TV contracts. 
 

The NFL only seems to punish the players for tarnishing the brand.