Death of a Fanbase

[skins4eva]

The name change was Dan Snyder hanging on by a thread. It was another Faustian bargain by Goodell. It seem so obvious that Snyder’s lawyers and the NFL lawyers entered into an iron clad confi agreement whereby Dan Snyder would get to retain ownership of the franchise but would have to change the name. The NFL and Snyder would both get to deflect attention away from the horrific culture of sexual harassment within the franchise and likely stoked by Snyder himself and bask in the woke virtue signaling glow of a name change. 
However, a funny thing happened along the way: fans of this franchise essentially said enough is enough. After all the absurdity, all of the nonsense, all of the empty promises and constant mismanagement, after all of the dashed expectations and crushing failures, there was really and truly no longer anyway for fans to feel associated with an organization in which their loyalty was exploited in such callous and insincere fashion. 
 

Mr Daniel M Snyder has never cared about this franchise or its fans or its history. He only cares about his toys and his fake friends and his yes men. He is on a different kind of trip. He has , with the help of convenient idiots like Vinny Cerrato and Bruce Allen, run a proud and marquee NFL franchise into the ground. He will never recover from it and will ultimately be forced into a sale by the other owners. That’s where this is heading. There is nothing, absolutely nothing he could do at this point to win back a fractured fan base. He will continue to get more and more desperate as the situation unfolds. This is how the world ends not with a bang but with a whimper. 

[SkipJackSkin]

^ I don't disagree with your overall sentiment, but are you essentially saying Dan is just an idiot himself? Isn't it in his best interest to have a winning team, to make a great fan experience, etc? Doesn't it only benefit him, even if for all the wrong reasons? Also, why would other owners force him to sell?

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, carex said:

 then root for a different team.  People on this thread are talking about the NFL giving us a replacement team to root for if the team moves.  Why wait for the NFL?\

 

Move on and let whatever homers are left have this place

 

I wonder what the fans of the late 40s through the mid-60s under George Preston Marshal would think of the modern fanbase under Daniel Snyder.

Oh is my Fandom slowing other fans down? Lol

 

The NFL is not giving you a new team lol. That's absurd. 

 

We're the new Bengals. He'll, this franchise has been awful almost the entire time it's existed.  It's what we do. 

 

I'd stop watching football all together before I stop being a wft fan. I hate the culture, the way athletes get through college, the softer rules. 

 

I'm on my way out, but the NFL and more specifically WFT is my only escape from real problems. So I stay stuck.

 

But DC is a dead town for a team.

[bakedtater1]

Where ya at jogging god..you and I look like geniuses now..

[heyholetsgogrant]

8 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I used to think Dan was going to get a stadium.  In fact, the only question I had was where.

 

Now, I can’t think of a way that he gets one.  How do you justify a ‘need’ for a new stadium when you can’t fill the one you have?  For a team that has absolutely no buzz? Why would any politician want to get in bed with an unlikable figure in Dan, and agree to spend tax dollars to help him build a stadium for a team nobody likes?  Without taxpayer support, how would he afford it?

 

My gut tells Synder will have to extend the lease out at Fed Ex, there’s zero feeling he will get a stadium deal done because no one likes him. Best case scenario is he moves the team and we get a new franchise and start fresh.

Edited October 11, 2021 by heyholetsgogrant

[Commander -JB-]

Dan Snyder literally killed the Redskins.  Franchise dead.

[tone_dubbz]

Last time I set foot in that sh*t hole I saw two Redskins fans beat the crap out of each other, well one was actually getting his ass kicked by the other.  And everyone gathered around to watch the fight like it was high school all over again.  Better action near the concession than on the field.  F that place. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

@carex after he runs off what’s left of anyone that even remotely cares about the team anymore

 

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Probos]

Thanks for sharing your experience OP.

 

I watched most of the first half and a little bit of the second,.....you could just feel it,..the suck that is.  They are officially a bad team,.....again.

 

Watching from home I noticed the upper level empty, club level with scattered peeps and the lower bowl somewhat full (saw a lot of Saints colors).  Watching the captains of each team shake hands at the center of the field for the coin flip, the camera would catch a glimpse of the stands from that angle,......really sad.  I wondered what Jonathan Allen was thinking,..."this is a home game for us?"

 

Fast forward in the evening to the Bills vs Chiefs game.  KC's stadium was overflowing, fan energy bursting out from the screen.  I looked at my wife and said "look at that, incredible.  FedEx couldn't have looked any different today.  "Dan has destroyed the fanbase."  My wife replies "you say that every year" and I say "yeah,...because I'm right,...unfortunately"

 

I'm not gonna rehash my thoughts on Dan.  Anyone that actually uses their brain to think knows.

 

Think about it -- this was the 5th game of the season.  There was at least chance they could beat a bad Saints team at home but the stadium was less than half full,...and a good percentage of that was Saints fans.  A good amount of the remaining fans had already conceded the season before the game even started.

 

I'm an old guy -- I was a teen going into 20s when this franchise was one of the tops in the league.  That seems like a lifetime ago.

 

I was under no illusion this team would be great this season.  Thought maybe 8-9 wins, slight improvement with an outside chance at the division, but I didn't think it would be this bad.  Outside of a handful of seasons, this feels no different than any random season since 2000.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Probos

[EmirOfShmo]

One of my older brothers & I used to take the DCT (that's the DC Transit pre-Metrobus for you youngsters) to the Uline Arena to see home games on closed circuit telecast. Today? I wouldn't walk down to the corner of my street to see this team play live. I got rid of my season tickets ~2001 after driving to/from games from Richmond since 1985. I stopped doing all things Redskins on Sundays many years ago. 

[RFK Lives]

This ^^ - I would not go next door to watch this team.  

 

It still feels like it has no direction.  I am glad that I have made plans on Sundays, I check in on the phone and it just validates my decision.  

 

I will root for this team, not with the passion I once did growing up but that is life and things change.  We can only hope one day things change in our favor.

 

The stadium experience sucked 10 years ago when I had season's tickets so I can only imagine how pathetic it is now.  Even on the TV, everything is so generic, the stupid Nintendo power up on first downs, not that you hear it that often but more than last year.  The old school PA voice just reeks like Washington is trying to hold on to the past glory which is so far faded now and was narrated by Facenda or Sabol, maybe they are trying to replicate the voice.

 

I still have some faith in Ron Rivera but have a feeling he might not make it or want to deal with it long haul.

[DiscoBob]

I would LOVE to see the entire fanbase boycott the team.  Could we force Snyder out? Probably not, but at this point... why not try?

[skinfan2k]

if not for 4 or the OL, this team is easily 0-5 right now.  Ron Rivera may be a leader of man, but i dont see much that value added. 

[mudhog]

12 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

It’s been a long time since I’ve made a thread here. I mean I probably was in college. I’m 28 now. Been coming to this site since I was 16. I love it. I love you guys. I love this franchise. I tried to quit but I can’t. 
 

I think we’ve all noticed that things are different (not on the field of course) within the fanbase. There’s not nearly as many people posting here as there were in 2009. I’m sure if you live locally you’ve noticed that the team has zero buzz. The best example I can give is back in 2019 when Haskins was drafted. A new young QB from Ohio State? City must be abuzz right? I don’t think he was ever in the top 5 most popular athletes in the city. That’s just unheard of in the NFL and in a historic franchise. Clearly , 30 years of suck has broken the fanbase. So this stuff isn’t new. 
 

But man, I went to the game today. My job gave me and 3 co-workers tickets and parking. I’ve been coming to FedEx since 2000 and today was the saddest sports experience I’ve ever had with none of that related to the on field product. I vividly remember my uncles and grandfather having season tickets when I was younger. Ppl would BEG them for tickets. I would beg and I’d circle the date on my calendar for my games MONTHS in advance. I loved every second of the FedEx experience. 90K strong. Yelling and screaming. And it wasn’t like we were good. We’ve never been truly good in my lifetime. Ppl just loved this franchise that much. No matter if Tim Hasselbeck or Jon Beck were starting. 
 

Fast forward today and it’s just jarring. My uncles and grandfather have all given up their tickets and it wasn’t due to finances. The experience is just so pathetic now. 
 

You get to the parking lot and it’s so sparse. So little juice. For every WFT jersey you see walking down Garrett Morgan, you see just as many for the opponents and just as many for teams that aren’t even playing at FedEx that day. Today, I think it was safe to say that 40% were Saints fans, which is actually pretty good all things considered. Next Sunday might be a silent count game for WFT. 

 

And you’d think with barely 40K in attendance, getting into the stadium and getting concessions would be easier. You’d be wrong. The experience is so poor. Concession stands run out of food and utensils early. Bathrooms are gross and run out of necessities in the first half. The stadium itself is just so drab and ugly. As a kid, the lure of FOOTBALL was a good deodorant but man, it’s so bad. And now that I can go to other stadiums because I’m an adult, it makes it even worse. You can tell they’re trying to do better with giveaways and in game entertainment but it’s just all so paper thin and kinda pathetic. 
 

And you get to your seat and it’s just downright sad to see all the empty seats. The lower bowl is full-ish but the club level is maybe 50% and the upper is a literal ghost town. I remember begging my uncles to take me to more games. Preseason games would basically be full at the start. Now it’s like seeing a down and out family member. Breaks my heart in a way. And maybe you can blame TV and covid but our local ratings are awful and we rank dead last in attendance. Fans have completely checked out. Nobody cares anymore. I just cannot believe this actually happened and I’m not sure anything short of a super bowl can fix it. Every demographic has checked out. My email is flooded daily with them BEGGING me to buy tickets. 
 

And i haven’t even mentioned football. I just don’t see how anyone could want to spend money on this product unless you’ve just never been and want to scratch it off your bucket list. Unless I get more free tickets, i think I’m out too. 
 

It just hurts my heart how bad things have gotten. It should be nearly impossible to do but Snyder managed to do it. 
 

God speed Jason Wright. It will literally take a miracle. I’m not sure a fun name or even a new stadium can help. 
 

I’ll leave with this tweet from Steve Czaban. It truly feels like the end times and I’m not sure how hyperbolic that really is. 
 

 

 

Damn brother, I seldom read something so poignant and on the mark, but this was awesome and very well written. You really sum up the hopelessness and apathy of this fanbase, and on a larger scale, this country. Usually I don't make it onto ES the day of a loss because the emotional turmoil is still so raw. I find it is better to breathe and chill a bit, rather than wallow in misery the night of. I already know a loss is going to cloud my week and throw off my game somewhat, so for self=preservation, I try to minimize the damage to my soul.

Like you, I have been a fan for a long time. All my life. It's hard to walk away, but I find myself doing it more and more. And though I personally feel distress about walking away and not standing to confronting my problems like I do in everyday life, it's better than the alternative, which is to be consumed with hate for my enemies( Snyder, in THIS case). 

I hope for the sake of this team and it's great history that it simply doesn't dissolve into the either due to sheer apathy and indifference. I for one will pray for war.

[Renegade7]

9 minutes ago, DiscoBob said:

I would LOVE to see the entire fanbase boycott the team.  Could we force Snyder out? Probably not, but at this point... why not try?

 

Not enough passion left for that, the majority of the fan base is indifferent at best now, remember trying this, it went nowhere.

[profusion]

22 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Not enough passion left for that, the majority of the fan base is indifferent at best now, remember trying this, it went nowhere.

 

Exactly. We've essentially got a "silent boycott" right now. The half-full stands are composed of opposing fans, the local TV ratings are low, and WFT merch is ranked near or at the bottom in sales.

 

It doesn't matter. Dan gets that big fat 1/32 share of the national TV contract revenue and league-wide merch profits every single year and will continue to do so for as long as he wants. He doesn't actually *need* us to care. We are unwitting victims of the decisions the NFL owners made in the early 1960s to split revenue in order to protect and cultivate smaller market teams. Dan is a squatter, basically.

 

If the league cares, they're either afraid of setting a precedent in forcing him out or are legally unable to do so.

Edited October 11, 2021 by profusion

[Renegade7]

5 minutes ago, profusion said:

 

It doesn't matter. Dan gets that big fat 1/32 share of the national TV contract revenue and league-wide merch profits every single year and will continue to do so for as long as he wants. He doesn't actually *need* us to care. We are unwitting victims of the decisions the NFL owners made in the early 1960s to split revenue in order to protect and cultivate smaller market teams. Dan is a squatter, basically.

 

This is an important point that needs emphasis. Stadium could be empty and he'd still make money.  We know this now because of covid and 2019 season. 

 

We are totally at this dudes mercy, and its not a good place to be.

[kleese]

Lots of random thoughts on this… 

 

—OP is correct… fanbase isn’t dying, it’s dead. And death is final. It cannot under any circumstance be brought back to life— not even with a new owner. What COULD happen is a rebirth of sorts. This is why the name change might work in their favor. You have lost an entire generation of potential fans— we have almost no young fans. And you’ve alienated a huge chunk of your previously loyal base. So now you need new people. At this rate, that isn’t happening. New name, new stadium, that stuff could help spawn something new. But it’s going to take years, maybe decades. No quick fix here. 
 

—I am a non-local fan. WFT fans are a little unique there— it’s not as geographic in terms of loyalty as other teams. The Bills prior to the last couple of years had been worse than us for 20 years. Lions are somehow still worse than us. Both have ownership issues over years. But their fanbase hasn’t wavered the way ours has in large part due to that geographic loyalty. Buffalo and Detroit have STRONG cultural loyalties among the people from those areas. DC is a unique spot. Lots and lots of people (like me) “adopted” the Redskins during the Glory years— I’ve never gotten the impression there is a super strong city loyalty among our base likely due to the transient nature of the area. Makes it easier to bail. 
 

—FedEx is really bad and the majority of that has nothing to do with Snyder. It offers nothing fun or interesting in terms of experience. It’s a pain to get to, there is nothing around it, aesthetics suck, nothing cool has ever happened there, etc so the ONLY reason to go is to watch an NFL game. Most other stadiums in the league offer other things— if not amenities and location, then history. What a colossal mistake by JKC. Yes, if we were really good over these years the place would be full and people wouldn’t hate it as much. Of course. But it’s an extra challenge to overcome— you need to get people to come IN SPITE of your stadium. And you’re already trying to get them to come IN SPITE of your team. Bad combo. 
 

—As others have stated, non-local fans still roll out fairly strong and generally seem a bit less jaded. Probably because non local fans were never there to experience the area when things were good so that’s one thing they aren’t missing. 
 

—I’m old— 44 and experienced the 80s and early 90s as a very young fan. My passion personally has not wavered. Not at all actually. But it’s been a conscious decision/action on my part. Because football is only 17 weeks (18 now I guess) and it is so rhythmic, it has become a massive part of my life. And I’ve chosen to have it remain a positive. If you ask me “have I enjoyed being a fan the past 25 years?” The answer is yes. Unequivocally. I’ve had a great time. It’s a tortured existence with a TON of frustration and disappointment, but I still enjoy the rhythm of it and the pangs of hope and occasional good moments. I am under no delusions about our owner or situation. I have just chosen to not let them ruin for it. I get why others bail. I dont blame them, but I do feel a bit bad for them. Sucks that it’s gotten to that point for so many. For me, I woke up Sunday, geared up, had the TVs set up on the deck, made some Gumbo in honor of playing NOLA, watched the London game, and watched our game with my son— who is getting into it this year for the first time. We had a really fun moment last week at the end vs Atlanta— yesterday was super frustrating and felt like so many other games over the years. But I still enjoyed the build up to the game, etc. This week I’ll make jokes all week about how we will get shredded by KC (we will) but I’ll still enjoy the process and sit down at noon with that 5% part of my brain that will have some hope we can do something memorable. 
 

—At this point I take some pride in the fact that I’m still plugging away. With so few of us left, I accept my place as an unwavering fan. It’s part of who I am and what I do and I feel like it’s up to ME to make the most of it because I obviously can’t depend on them. I figure if they are ever good again in my lifetime that it will feel even better that I stuck around. Maybe that’s it. I’m afraid if I bail and then they ever see glory again, it won’t feel as great because I let it die. So I just keep at it. Eventually I’m gonna check out from this world and I’ve spent so much time on this that I better keep it an overall positive experience.. or else, man, that’s sad. 
 

—Even just this season, I’ve paced my deck twice at the end of games, nervous as hell, and then ecstatic to win at the end. Those reactions are mostly involuntary but I guess set up by the conscious practice to continue to care. And chasing those moments is still worth it to me— even as fleeting as they are. And if at some point this year we find ourselves sitting at 3-10 or whatever, well, then I’ll check out emotionally for those remaining games and save it up for the next year. 

[profusion]

6 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

This is an important point that needs emphasis. Stadium could be empty and he'd still make money.  We know this now because of covid and 2019 season. 

 

We are totally at this dudes mercy, and its not a good place to be.

 

And really, Snyder is just (probably unintentionally) following in the footsteps of owners like the Bidwills and Fords.

 

The Bidwills traded a big market (Chicago) for a smaller market (St. Louis) for a then-still smaller market (Phoenix)--and they've sucked lemons at each stop. The family still owns the team and rakes in millions every year. Maybe the current Bidwill generation has turned it around, but they're still up-and-down and unstable compared to the league elite.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, kleese said:

Lots and lots of people (like me) “adopted” the Redskins during the Glory years— I’ve never gotten the impression there is a super strong city loyalty among our base likely due to the transient nature of the area.

I can't say that I've noticed it in a very long time, but I also haven't worked near DC for 15 years.  But there was a time when I was working in Silver Spring (99-06), where it seemed the pulse of the city relied on what happened with the Skins.  I was a smoker at the time, and we used to go outside to smoke near the metro station, it was very common to see others in Skins gear and talk with passersby about the prior or upcoming game.  That was primarily during Gibbs II where this team had a buzz, win or lose.

 

2012, RG3 year, was the closest I've seen to what it used to be.  The team band was playing go-go versions of Hail to the Redskins, remixing it with RG3 related lyrics.  The place was packed, it sure as hell seemed the entire area was buzzing over the superstar and the assumed next decade+ of having a franchise quarterback.  You couldn't go anywhere within 2 hours of DC without seeing droves of #10 jerseys.

 

The fanbase has never recovered from that and I'm afraid you're correct in that this fanbase is dead and not coming back to life, at least not the life we knew.

 

 

[mudhog]

7 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

Where ya at jogging god..you and I look like geniuses now..

Damn Tater. This quote just made my day! Good on ya' brother!

[profusion]

7 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I can't say that I've noticed it in a very long time, but I also haven't worked near DC for 15 years.  But there was a time when I was working in Silver Spring (99-06), where it seemed the pulse of the city relied on what happened with the Skins.  I was a smoker at the time, and we used to go outside to smoke near the metro station, it was very common to see others in Skins gear and talk with passersby about the prior or upcoming game.  That was primarily during Gibbs II where this team had a buzz, win or lose.

 

2012, RG3 year, was the closest I've seen to what it used to be.  The team band was playing go-go versions of Hail to the Redskins, remixing it with RG3 related lyrics.  The place was packed, it sure as hell seemed the entire area was buzzing over the superstar and the assumed next decade+ of having a franchise quarterback.  You couldn't go anywhere within 2 hours of DC without seeing droves of #10 jerseys.

 

The fanbase has never recovered from that and I'm afraid you're correct in that this fanbase is dead and not coming back to life, at least not the life we knew.

 

 

 

It died for good during the Cousins era due to all the bad stuff going on with the team around that time. Just so many bad decisions and overtly unlikeable characters (Snyder, Allen and Jay), that I think a lot of people decided that it was hopeless. There's a generational issue at work, too. The Ravens have made serious inroad among young people in the Maryland suburbs. Younger adults moving to DC now bring their loyalties with them, and I'm not sure what's happening with the team's traditional "heartland" in exurban and rural Virginia. Hell, maybe they're turning into Ravens fans, too...

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, profusion said:

 

. Younger adults moving to DC now bring their loyalties with them, and I'm not sure what's happening with the team's traditional "heartland" in exurban and rural Virginia. Hell, maybe they're turning into Ravens fans, too...

 

I've been to places like Lynchburg and Orange County, Ravens aren't making in roads there.  Its either in difference, or whats going on in Hampton roads where they show ours and panthers preseason games.  Hampton Roads acts like its own market, and will try to separate themselves from us when we are losing.   Now THAT place is transient, almost as much or more so then DC because of all the military down there.

[profusion]

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I've been to places like Lynchburg and Orange County, Ravens aren't making in roads there.  Its either in difference, or whats going on in Hampton roads where they show ours and panthers preseason games.  Hampton Roads acts like its own market, and will try to separate themselves from us when we are losing.   Now THAT place is transient, almost as much or more so then DC because of all the military down there.

 

Very true.

 

I think of the heart of the WFT fanbase as being in an area stretching from Fairfax County south to Richmond and west/southwest to Charlottesville. I know that the Redskins used to be the "team of the South", but much beyond 100 miles south of DC is very rural and sparsely populated, and beyond Virginia it gets into places now occupied by or closer to other teams.

 

Fairfax County has become the new Arlington and is much more transient, and it's really in the corridor south of that where I wonder what's happening--indifference seems like the best guess.

[Koolblue13]

This clown show is so much different. The Ron hype and seemingly turning everything around in the FO, then the email and drug bust and now totally unaccountable players and a QB who thinks he played well and another at the waterpark. It's just so consistently infuriating and not surprising. 

 

This doesn't even hurt. It's just hard to even care at all. This isn't even worthy of a dumb stunt like mailing in your fan cards. It's just turn off the tv and quit energy.