Death of a Fanbase

[Renegade7]

12 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

You are joking right? Moving to London would drop the value from 7th and down to 31 or 32. 

 

Somewhere in between, why you think so low?  We arent going to stay 7th at this rate, we've been dropping for years now.

[CjSuAvE22]

Maybe they are holding off on a name change because they are planning a move and a name change...sighh i can only dream

[Wildbunny]

48 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Forbes still has Washington as the 7th most valuable NFL franchise. The NFL isn’t ever doing anything to Snyder. The other owners are happy with his ineptitude.

There was not so long ago we used to be 1st, and while everyone went up, we went "down" as not up par to everybody else.

 

Mind you, those guys up there always wants to make more money. That's the driving principle for everyone. And if your 1st franchise is going down they're seeing that as losing money. Sure we may make 4.5 billion or stuff, that's a lot, but in reality we should be making 6 or 7. So that's a loss. (numbers are purely fictionnal here, just so you get the idea of thinking some have).

[profusion]

I don't really think they're going to move, but I also don't believe the possibility can be discounted entirely. Dan is just dumb enough that he'll use the threat to try and bluff his way into a new stadium in the DMV...and then get his bluff called by all the local politicians and taxpayers who want nothing to do with him.

 

Getting rid of the Redskins name and logo certainly helps clear the way for this happen, even if there's not some grand plan going on behind the scenes.

 

It wouldn't be good for him or the league, but these things happen. I doubt London would be the destination...more likely that the Jaguars end up there. St. Louis or San Diego seem more likely--they already have experience with bad owners and have stadium plans essentially sitting on ice waiting for a disgruntled owner.

Edited October 11, 2021 by profusion

[TheGoodBits]

Dan’s not moving the team guys. He’s a fan first. It makes him a crappy owner in many ways but he’s a fan. Although I’ve gotta say, the scenario where he relocated to San Diego or whatever and Washington got an expansion team would be perfect to me. We keep the memories from the 80s and 90s, pretend the last 30 years didn’t happen, and start fresh with a new franchise that is devoid of the lingering stench of the current one. 

[Cooleyfan1993]

4 minutes ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

Dan’s not moving the team guys. He’s a fan first. It makes him a crappy owner in many ways but he’s a fan. Although I’ve gotta say, the scenario where he relocated to San Diego or whatever and Washington got an expansion team would be perfect to me. We keep the memories from the 80s and 90s, pretend the last 30 years didn’t happen, and start fresh with a new franchise that is devoid of the lingering stench of the current one. 

But....but......then we don’t get to keep scary terry. Or Logan Thomas. Or Chase Young 😭 

[BudLighticke]

29 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

I’m guessing you’re a newer fan? This thread really has nothing to do with anything related to the 2021 football product. It’s 30 years of misery. And it’s not an exaggeration. This is a pic from our first TD drive

No, I am not a newer fan. And trust me, it breaks my heart to not see the fans come out anymore, even when we do have a decent record. When you’ve been as consistently bad like we have for 30 years, it’s like trying to stop a boulder running full steam down the mountain. Everyone is fed up.

 

The truth is that FedEx is in the middle of no where and it’s an outdated stadium with little to nothing around it attractions wise. And the viewing experience is so great at home, why bother? 
 

All that being said, I was touching more on all of the doom and gloom that followed your post. We’ve had much darker moments than yesterday, and again, I’m not ready to totally give up on the season, especially when we finish with 5 divisional games. Bills and Chargers are way better than the Packers and Chiefs IMO. I think we split those and beat Denver and head into the bye 4-4.

[thebluefood]

Yeah, naw, this team isn't going anywhere. This is a major league market and this franchise has been here since the FDR Administration. The only time I could even begin to consider them leaving is if Snyder cannot find a place to go as the lease at FedEx Field ends but, by hook or by crook, they will find a location for a new, shiny stadium that none of us can actually afford to go to. That's either gonna be on the RFK site, against the (legitimate) wishes of the residents nearby or somewhere out in the Virigina exurbs that's *barely* part of the area but they will find it and we will be stuck with Snyder & Co. for decades to come.

7 minutes ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

Dan’s not moving the team guys. He’s a fan first. It makes him a crappy owner in many ways but he’s a fan. Although I’ve gotta say, the scenario where he relocated to San Diego or whatever and Washington got an expansion team would be perfect to me. We keep the memories from the 80s and 90s, pretend the last 30 years didn’t happen, and start fresh with a new franchise that is devoid of the lingering stench of the current one. 

Honestly, I'd be fine with this, too. In retrospect, I kinda wish that deal George Preston Marshall made with Clint Murchison went through in the 1950s and we could have started anew with an AFL Franchise or something in this town.

[SoCalSkins]

26 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

There’s not gonna be a team in London unless it plays at Wembley. And even then, good luck getting fans in there because the Premier League plays on a lot of Sundays especially the teams that play in London like Arsenal, Spurs, etc. 

 

The only possibility is the Jaguars since Shad Khan owns Wembley. Even that’s wishful thinking. Having a few games a year with different teams as an NFL celebration is far different than having a home team to support week after week and year after year. It will be a failure. Guaranteed. Only hope is draw US fans there for games as a destination but that can only be milked for so long. 

[profusion]

4 minutes ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

Dan’s not moving the team guys. He’s a fan first. It makes him a crappy owner in many ways but he’s a fan. Although I’ve gotta say, the scenario where he relocated to San Diego or whatever and Washington got an expansion team would be perfect to me. We keep the memories from the 80s and 90s, pretend the last 30 years didn’t happen, and start fresh with a new franchise that is devoid of the lingering stench of the current one. 

 

I'm increasingly skeptical of the whole "Dan's a fan" theory...or at least I think it's less of a factor than it was 20 years ago. He and I are the same age. Despite my loathing of him, I don't think he still pulls out that old Redskins belt buckle and reminisces about going to the games with dear old dad. You move on to other concerns and priorities.

 

He's a dad himself, and his kids are pretty much grown. Your thoughts pivot to what you're building and leaving for them. Would you rather your legacy be "the second most-hated man in Washington DC" or "the civic icon who brought the San Diego Seawolves to town?"

 

That's under the assumption that he can't get a stadium deal done here, of course. The one constant in politics is change.

[my_friend_goo]

Growing up in England in the 1980s, I got into the NFL through my Dad, sitting with him through the Sunday highlight shows on Channel 4. The Redskins were the team he picked and naturally I followed. Based on age and location, I never got the experience many of the forum members here did, but I felt the excitement and one of the best memories of my young life was being able to stay up to watch Superbowl XXVI as an 11 year old, squeezed into an Art Monk jersey I'd long outgrown.

 

I've been to FedEx twice, seeing games against the Cardinals in '08 and Bears in '13. To me, the crappy FedEx experience was irrelevant. I was getting to see my team at their home ground and I honestly didn't have any other stadium experience to compare it to. Both games were thrilling victories, the latter all the more enjoyable because it was a surprise trip I arranged for Dad, the only time he'd get to see them play in DC.

 

Although the rot started before then, the Snyder years have drained the enjoyment out of the experience for me. Of course we've had moments of excitement, but they've been short lived. He's created conditions that seem to snuff out the hope soon after it forms. With the exception of some good players who would likely have succeeded anywhere they went, there's rarely been a culture that enables players to fully realise their potential.

 

Dad would still watch games right up to the last season he was around for. I can barely muster the energy anymore. I choose to watch games I think will be interesting. I can't get invested in another game anywhere near the extent I could with my own team though. I do check in on the team, but I find it hard to buy into the idea that meaningful change is on the horizon. The promise of last year is fast fading. Without Dad to talk to about the games, it's even harder. The Redskins were one thing the two of us, very different people, had in common. In a way I'm glad he wasn't around for the name change. The old team I can at least relate to what we did had in common and I can almost draw a line under that past.

 

So, like for many of you, what amounts to the demise of our beloved team is personal. I find it hard to believe that under Snyder's ownership there will ever be an environment that enables players to thrive. Without modern day facilities, stadium and a genuine promise of the resources a talented front office would need to shape a perennially successful team, Snyder won't attract the brilliant minds he needs to turn the fates of this franchise around. It's getting harder to see where those new facilities and stadium are coming from and as others have said, as long as he's making money, Snyder has no reason to sell the team, in spite of the fact he's all but destroyed the team he loved growing up.

 

**** you, Snyder. Seriously, **** you.

 

[my_friend_goo]

37 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

There’s not gonna be a team in London unless it plays at Wembley. And even then, good luck getting fans in there because the Premier League plays on a lot of Sundays especially the teams that play in London like Arsenal, Spurs, etc. 

The Spurs stadium is set up to host NFL games. I live on the same train line and the journey is about 15 minutes traveling towards the city rather than out of it. I know a move to London is almost certainly not going to happen, even less likely using that stadium as a home ground. But I don't think I could even care enough to get a ticket if they came over there for a single game these days.

[thebluefood]

 

Edit: made a mistake editing a post - sorry about that.

Edited October 11, 2021 by thebluefood

[DCSaints_fan]

Jacksonville would move there long before move there long before any other franchise

[justice98]

I think it's all deeper than the stadium experience, Snyder, the name change, even the play on the field.  I think the fanbase got exposed. The fans need to own it and stop blaming other stuff.  The Browns have basically stunk for 60 years and nobody left.  Can you imagine a Cowboy or Eagle fan just abandoning the team, allowing invasions every single home game?  The last 25 years has just weeded out the dubious fringes and the core that's left just isn't as deep as we all thought it was. 

 

I don't think winning or a new stadium will cure this.  If we start winning and people start coming back, you've just got frontrunners who can't be trusted.  Clearly the owner's not changing, so any people that left because of him have to explain that if they all the sudden are back in the fold.

[Renegade7]

I dont want to hear another word about Dan being a fan, he obviously isn't, otherwise he'd be here saying the same things we are saying and actually addressing it.  It's been 20 years, man, it's the biggest crock of **** on earth.

 

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Renegade7

[hail2skins]

2 hours ago, kleese said:

I’m glad this hasn’t happened to me. I figure the day I no longer really care if they lose, is probably the same day I no longer really care if they win, which is then the day I just no longer care. If I ever get to a point where I feel emotionless towards the team, I’ll be out. I feel like I’m in control of that though, so hoping it never gets there. 

To your point, no it’s not JUST about this loss of course, or this season… however, I do think there might be some underlying disingenuous posts here— people venting about “not caring” when it appears they still do. And for those that say it’s not just about the losing— let’s be 100% honest— if we were 5-0 right now, this thread wouldn’t exist. I mean it when I said the fanbase is dead— the numbers just aren’t there anymore. But winning would absolutely quiet the complaints and there would be at least a few more in the stands. 

Ed, I really admire you for being able to maintain the same level of enthusiasm as you did, say, 30 years ago. A lot of it for me is how garbage I think the league is in general with the rules skewed so much toward the offense and all the borderline roughing penalties. I just can't take it as seriously as I used to. And after watching the Skins for 3 hours, which I do just primarily out of habit, I have very little desire to watch any other games.

 

And I am far from someone who thinks this years team is doomed to a 4-5 win season. I still think it's likely that we end up around .500, but does that really move the needle? I see BOW's post as more observational of how attendance has taken a major hit in recent years. And as he said, even in 2018, I was at games against ATL and HOU when we were 5-2 and 6-3 respectively and the crowd didn't look dissimilar to yesterday's. 

[NickyJ]

I don't know how anyone can say with a straight face that they think Washington's team would get exported to London. The first team to London is the NFL's only foothold in Europe. Wouldn't the NFL want to try to draw in fans instead of presenting them with Dumb and Dumber?

 

The only way this team gets sent to London is if the NFL turns WWE, pays Apple royalties for Ted Lasso, and rips off the story with Tanya Snyder divorcing Dan, keeping control of the team and hiring a folksy soccer coach in hopes of totally destroying it.

Edited October 11, 2021 by NickyJ

[carex]

42 minutes ago, profusion said:

 

I'm increasingly skeptical of the whole "Dan's a fan" theory...or at least I think it's less of a factor than it was 20 years ago. He and I are the same age. Despite my loathing of him, I don't think he still pulls out that old Redskins belt buckle and reminisces about going to the games with dear old dad. You move on to other concerns and priorities.

 

He's a dad himself, and his kids are pretty much grown. Your thoughts pivot to what you're building and leaving for them. Would you rather your legacy be "the second most-hated man in Washington DC" or "the civic icon who brought the San Diego Seawolves to town?"

 

That's under the assumption that he can't get a stadium deal done here, of course. The one constant in politics is change.

not every fan functions the same way.  I was only ever at two preseason games at RFK as a kid at the beginning of the 90s, and have no interest in going to another game.  I still watch every game. 

[profusion]

15 minutes ago, justice98 said:

I think it's all deeper than the stadium experience, Snyder, the name change, even the play on the field.  I think the fanbase got exposed. The fans need to own it and stop blaming other stuff.  The Browns have basically stunk for 60 years and nobody left.  Can you imagine a Cowboy or Eagle fan just abandoning the team, allowing invasions every single home game?  The last 25 years has just weeded out the dubious fringes and the core that's left just isn't as deep as we all thought it was. 

 

I don't think winning or a new stadium will cure this.  If we start winning and people start coming back, you've just got frontrunners who can't be trusted.  Clearly the owner's not changing, so any people that left because of him have to explain that if they all the sudden are back in the fold.

 

There's a lot to unpack there.

 

Philly sports fans are very tribal and hardcore...more like Buffalo and Cleveland than the other East Coast cities, I think. For folks like that, the teams form a crucial part of their civic/regional identity. They'll put up with a lot.

 

DC has always been more transient, but somehow the Redskins built a multigenerational institution despite that. For sure, severing that emotional connection is easier in a place like this. It's also important to remember that the population of the DC area has exploded in the last 20 years with tons of outsiders coming in to work in the vastly expanded IT and national security sectors in the wake of 9/11. This isn't even close to being the same place it was in 1991.

 

Not so sure about those Cowboys fans, by the way. I married a Texan, and while the feelings are strong about the Cowboys, I don't see it as being at the level of Rust Belt NFL fans.

 

 

[kleese]

1 hour ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

I’m guessing you’re a newer fan? This thread really has nothing to do with anything related to the 2021 football product. It’s 30 years of misery. And it’s not an exaggeration. This is a pic from our first TD drive

 

 

Not sure how true that is. Attendance was bad enough during the 6-3 start in 2018 that players were complaining in the media. 

I’d agree that it isn’t just about the record at the time of the date of the game. People make plans in advance, etc… that year the 6-3 start was a bit of a surprise and they very much stumbled to get there with an old QB, a coach people generally didn’t love, etc. 

 

For me it was more about the tone. You started the thread, so I’ll ask you. Let’s say we started on fire this year— 5-0 and trounced the Saints yesterday… do you think you start the same thread? That’s all I’m saying. Not that a hot start to the season would have equaled sell outs or rabid fans. I agree it goes deeper. 

[kleese]

15 minutes ago, hail2skins said:

Ed, I really admire you for being able to maintain the same level of enthusiasm as you did, say, 30 years ago. A lot of it for me is how garbage I think the league is in general with the rules skewed so much toward the offense and all the borderline roughing penalties. I just can't take it as seriously as I used to. And after watching the Skins for 3 hours, which I do just primarily out of habit, I have very little desire to watch any other games.

 

And I am far from someone who thinks this years team is doomed to a 4-5 win season. I still think it's likely that we end up around .500, but does that really move the needle? I see BOW's post as more observational of how attendance has taken a major hit in recent years. And as he said, even in 2018, I was at games against ATL and HOU when we were 5-2 and 6-3 respectively and the crowd didn't look dissimilar to yesterday's. 

Obviously in a year when we are say, 2-9, I’m not all hyped up for game #10. I’ve checked out late emotionally in individual seasons (1994, 2009, 2019) coming to mind immediately as years where I was sleepwalking watching games second half of year. But for the most part, the passion and excitement remains. Again, for me I feel that’s something I can control to a certain extent. And if I don’t allow them to still mess with my emotions one way or the other, then it’s all sort of pointless. 
 

Other thing I want to make clear is that my enthusiasm shouldn’t be mistaken for positivity. I knew that game was over the instant they caught the Hail Mary. I am for sure damaged and jaded by the 30 years in that regard. It’s just that I care and enjoy going through the process as much as I did then. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

14 minutes ago, kleese said:

I’d agree that it isn’t just about the record at the time of the date of the game. People make plans in advance, etc… that year the 6-3 start was a bit of a surprise and they very much stumbled to get there with an old QB, a coach people generally didn’t love, etc. 

 

For me it was more about the tone. You started the thread, so I’ll ask you. Let’s say we started on fire this year— 5-0 and trounced the Saints yesterday… do you think you start the same thread? That’s all I’m saying. Not that a hot start to the season would have equaled sell outs or rabid fans. I agree it goes deeper. 

Maybe not start the thread but I’d probably feel pretty down regardless. This wasn’t a spur of the moment thing. It’s been building a while. 
 

6-3 start with a “name” QB? Falling attendance and falling tv numbers. 
 

Flashy “local” rookie QB in 2019 from OSU? Zero buzz locally and metrics get even worse. 
 

2021 season after a division title, nice young players, and after a year where no one could do anything fun ? Worst attendance in the league. 
 

Even at 5-0, that would hurt me to see things as they stand. My uncles giving up their tix even with all the promise heading into 2021. It’s deeper than wins and losses now. I think you have to live here and breathe it every day to understand where I’m coming from. 
 

bc even at 4-0 heading into yesterday, it would still be tens of thousands of Saints fans. That is disheartening and disturbing when you go to games. Even when they win. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93

[hail2skins]

7 minutes ago, kleese said:

 

For me it was more about the tone. You started the thread, so I’ll ask you. Let’s say we started on fire this year— 5-0 and trounced the Saints yesterday… do you think you start the same thread? That’s all I’m saying. Not that a hot start to the season would have equaled sell outs or rabid fans. I agree it goes deeper. 

Ed, by the same token, if the Giants dude doesn't jump offsides and we lose that game, are you posting in the attendance thread quoting fans and players hat the atmosphere was comparable to the RG3 year?

 

Again, for me, the crapshow that the team has been has contributed to my personal apathy, but it's more the current nature of the league that is killing it for me.  It's tough to say if a 5-0 start would've resulted in many more fans, and I think a discussion of why the stadium was still empty would've still been warranted, just like it was in 2018, and whether Lafeminas strategy was a good idea.

[Butchie_T]

Here is a thought. 

 

Maybe they can move to Texas and become the Texas Strangers. It worked back in 72 with a baseball team, why not football too......