Next Day Thread: WFT vs. Giants

[KDawg]

Well, it happened. The Team tried everything in their power to lose this one but Taylor Heinicke and Terry McLaurin (among others) wouldn't be denied. 

 

Offense:

-Crack open a Heiniken because Taylor Heini CAN! Pardon me for the lame pun. I can't help myself. 

 

-Terry McLaurin. Not sure I need to add anything to that. But I will. McLaurin entered the night 27th all-time in receiving yards for the franchise. He is now 23rd. He passed Leslie Shepard, Charlie Brown, Lav. Coles and Antwaan Randel-El. He is now within 300 yards of #20.

 

-Seals-Jones gets credit where it's due. What a sticky handed catch in the corner of the endzone.

 

-Sam Cosmi is a walking hold right now. His saving grace is that he is a rookie.

 

-Leno Jr doesn't create much movement in the running game or much protection in the passing game. That's kind of scary.

 

-Adam Humphries is very hot/cold and streaky.

 

-Dyami showed some of what made him so loved as a draft pick.

 

-Antonio Gibson had a quiet 79 yard day. Very quiet. Turner goes away from the run quick but that's the modern NFL. And we don't have the horses to be a dominant run team and it keeps some mileage off of him. 

 

Defense: 

-Chase Young needs to be on the side of a milk carton. 

 

-Jon Allen - 3 QB hits, 2 sacks. He has been the premiere DL for us so far this season and it's not all that close.

 

-Montez Sweat is the Adam Humphries of the defense. He shows up for a few plays and disappears at other times. But when he shows up he shows up, man. 

 

-Daron Payne is a quality nose tackle inside.

 

-So, our DL aside from one guy so far has been... decent... So why does this defense continue to get gashed. We have the absolute worst linebacking corps. in the National Football League. Combine that with a bottom 10 or so DB crew at the moment and you can see why our decent DL, bad LBs and bottom third DBs are struggling.

 

-Kam Curl is playing less snaps than Collins and McCain. I think Kam is a top 3 player on this defense and needs to be on the field at all times.

 

-Our linebackers are largely absent from entire games. Holcomb is still too hesitant to play downhill and he seems like he's getting lost in space at times. Bostic is extremely intelligent but he just doesn't find himself in the right spots more times than not. I think Jamin is already our best linebacker (not that that is some difficult feat at the moment) but he seems to be behind the 8-ball with learning the D. So the team needs to simplify things for him and get him on the field more often. 

 

-Kendall Fuller is still a total liability in man coverage. 

 

-St-Juste is learning and improving week to week.

 

-William Jackson III didn't play as well tonight and I am not 100% sure who that dropped touchdown pass blown coverage was on (haven't re-watched and may not, feel free to post screen shots!) but he is a solid player.

 

-Collins/McCain aren't good in coverage from a distant glance.

 

-Del Rio's schemes seem to only be confusing our guys.

 

Awards:

 

*** - Taylor Heinicke

** - Terry McLaurin

* -  Jon Allen

 - Cole Holcomb

  - Jon Bostic

   - Kendall Fuller

 

Season to Date:

 

*** -  Terry McLaurin 

*** - Taylor Heinicke

*** - William Jackson III

** - Tress Way

* - Jon Allen

 - Cole Holcomb

   - Jon Bostic 

   - Chase Young

     - Kendall Fuller

[Warhead36]

As I said before, I won't judge Scot Turner until he gets a QB that can run the system. I'm not saying he's Sean McVay now, but clearly he can run an offense if he has a functional QB which he has now in Heinicke. I too would have liked a few more Gibson carries but I can't fault him for throwing since the passing game was working. OL pass protection seemed to be shored up after the first couple of drives. Beyond that, we didn't really learn anything. McLaurin is a stud. Thomas can play. We got decent contributions from other receivers. My only real beef with Turner is I'd like to see Gibson moved around and catch passes out of the backfield more like in an Alvin Kamara role. Remember he was a WR in college.

 

Defensively...oi vey. The DL isn't what we thought it was when they aren't facing backup tier QB/OL. The LBs are absolute dog doo doo(though Davis looked good on a couple plays). And the secondary, WTF was that last night? Every first down was an easy 15-20 yards to Shepard. We still have communication issues in the back end. It looked like a Manusky or Barry defense. Unacceptable. That part I expect to be fixed, but the DL not being as good as we thought and the LBs definitely being as bad as we thought are concerns.

[Burgold]

Yeah, I get that Bostic is a leader and a great try-hard linebacker, but it seems half the blown coverage plays involved him. Seems to me that if they really want him on the field they should keep him near the line of scrimmage in run support or pressure. Surprised that Kurl is being that underutilized. I wonder if it's because they overvalue speed? I realize Collins is a high-money player, but productivity should matter more. Again, Collins is a guy you want near the line of scrimmage or attacking. You really don't want him in space a lot.

 

I guess the other thing that really stands out at me through two games is that we overrely on our line. We expect the four man rush to get there and disrupt every play. Mind you, our blitzes didn't seem to get there either, but the four man rush when not supported by coverage (two games in a row of way too many dropped coverages) is not going to get it done. Even more so, if you're asking two of those four linemen to keep contain and so not attack with abandon.

[Skinsinparadise]

I didn't pay that much attention but did notice Jamin made a big run stop on the Giants last possession and also had a good play in coverage.  It's taking him some time but I think the local media has been a bit too harsh talking about it being a bad pick, give him time.  Personally, I liked Jamin before the draft and pushed for him quite a bit albeit saw him more of a late first-early 2nd rounder.  He wasn't my guy so to speak as to who I wanted at 19 but I didn't dislike the pick when it went down. 

 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

He was also all over the place in coverage when in. Matched up on slot receivers and stride for stride with them on crossing routes.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

 

-Seals-Jones gets credit where it's due. What a sticky handed catch in the corner of the endzone.

 

 

He was one of the guys i mentioned in camp.  He looked spry for a guy his size and made plays.  I know he's an odd player to point out considering he's a journeyman and at the time a dark horse to make the roster -- but had moments when I watched him.  

[MisterPinstripe]

The blown coverage play LOOKED to be on Collins. The CB looked to be expecting help over the top from a safety and Collins jumped down to a crossing route to double cover the crosser who already had someone on it.

[Redd]

Allen was the only Defensive lineman playing  as advertised.  I have no idea how the rest are struggling 1v1.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

He was also all over the place in coverage when in. Matched up on slot receivers and stride for stride with them on crossing routes.

 

I corrected the post i made, I said I didn't notice but meant to say I did.  When they needed a big run stop with the game on the line, he made a big play.  Maybe this game gives him some confidence moving forward. 

 

Jonathan Allen made some big plays I noticed both pass rush and run stopping, though I wasn't studying him to get a full picture of his game. 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[method man]

Let's hope Davis grows up fast to get at least Holcomb or Bostic off the field. He is smaller but why isn't Hudson getting snaps? He would get wiped a bit due to this size but he plays aggressive and is smart.

 

It's a shame regarding Fuller. He is clearly not a fit for where the team is headed regarding them wanting to do more man coverage. He is probably a goner at the end of the year.

 

On Cosmi, he is a terrible pass blocker today who may already be one of the league's best run blockers at RT. He probably has Pro Bowl level potential earlier playing on the inside but, if they keep him outside, let's hope he can at least get to average for pass blocking

6 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

The blown coverage play LOOKED to be on Collins. The CB looked to be expecting help over the top from a safety and Collins jumped down to a crossing route to double cover the crosser who already had someone on it.

 

I am sick of this guy. Can't wait until he's gone this offseason

[Heathen]

only saw some of the game: was Chase Young doubled a lot or just having an issue getting through one guy?

[NewCliche21]

Can someone please explain to me what the hell is happening with Chase Young?  I mean he made the wrong read on that one zone-read, but it looked like a good play.

Other than that it seems he's non-existent.

[mistertim]

12 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

Can someone please explain to me what the hell is happening with Chase Young?  I mean he made the wrong read on that one zone-read, but it looked like a good play.

Other than that it seems he's non-existent.

 

No clue, but it looks like OTs aren't really having too much trouble with him. One thing I noticed about him in college and last season is that he has a tendency to get too upright too fast out of his stance, which makes it easier for OTs to get into his pads. I was hoping he'd work on it but I even noticed him doing it in the clips from camp this season. Maybe I'm way off base in whether or not that's an issue.

[Jumbo]

26 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

As I said before, I won't judge Scot Turner until he gets a QB that can run the system.

 

 

a minor note of interest---there was extensive negativity about turner in the game thread (of course a lot of posters in the day said sean m and kyle s were bad oc's too---it's a thing we do) but most of the talking heads---inc the 'good' ones---are actually noting both oc's performances and praising both 

 

as with other things, only time will truly tell

 

 

[Ball Security]

Why were our guys slipping and sliding all over the place, but Gano never lost his footing.

On the McKissic slip, how in the world did he not get the first down after the review?

[NoVaSkins21]

One of the most concerning things about Chase is that he is gassed and either he takes himself out or is taken out on some of the most important times like 3rd down and we're seeing James Smith-Wiliams on those plays.  WTF.  Something is not right with his conditioning or it's something else.  

Edited September 17, 2021 by SAli457180

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

 

a minor note of interest---there was extensive negativity about turner in the game thread (of course a lot of posters in the day said sean m and kyle s were bad oc's too---it's a thing we do) but most of the talking heads---inc the 'good' ones---are actually noting both oc's performances and praising both 

 

as with other things, only time will truly tell

 

 

 

I am sort of neutral on Turner right now, not a big fan, not a critic either.  I am uncertain.  But I know the analytics types love him, Warren Sharp and some other dude either from outsiders or PFF don't recall.  In short, they think he has it down as for how to play the percentages on each play. 

 

 

Chase hasn't lived up to expectations yet.  He got off to a slow start last season, too. But rewatching the Chargers game, he wasn't a ghost.  He had moments.  I wasn't studying him in this game but did notice he was disruptive at times.  But he hasn't had a big game yet, clearly. 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[moondog]

QB: I think we are all rightfully happy for and excited about Heinicke. So I’ll focus on a few negatives. He can have some accuracy issues - some high balls or throws slightly behind - this can lead to picks or the one to Terry on the slant might have been a TD if he led him instead of making him break stride to catch a slightly behind ball. Also we have no business throwing screens with him unless to backfield players leaking out or receivers running back toward centerline - those throws out to waiting receivers…he just doesn’t have a cannon so by the time the ball gets there the receivers don’t have much room to make a play. 
 

RB: this is still an area KDawg and I disagree, which I think is rare. I believe Gibson Is fully capable of the increased workload. He’s a 230lb bully and his first run on the interception drive he ran right over a defender for 10+. He’s always moving the pile forward. Because of his 40 time people forget how big and strong he is and I actually think he can really wear defenses down. But I still like McKissic more as a receiving threat. 
 

TE: I really like Thomas. I’ve been surprised that RSJ is basically our #2 but he made a huge play last night. But I hope Bates and Sammis continue to develop. 
 

OL: their strength is clearly run blocking which plays into feeding Gibson and Patterson if the game flow allows. Pass blocking has been poor but I think Heinicke kinda alleviates that. 
 

WR: We are so lucky to have Terry. I’d still like to have more shots downfield to him and Dyami but it seems like the Giants wanted to keep things in front of them hoping eventually the offense would make a mistake. I think Humphries is a better version of trey Quinn and that is not a complement. He’s quick sure but he’s got short arms and somewhat suspect hands. Tbh I’d rather see cam sims out there or maybe even some snaps for Milne. 
 

Overall we need more chunk plays. Heinicki averaged about 7.3 ypa but that’s because he completed such a high percentage of passes. Terry averaged less then 10 ypc which is not ideal at. I honestly don’t want to get into the defense because it’s depressing. 

[Ball Security]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am sort of neutral on Turner right now, not a big fan, not a critic either.  I am uncertain.  But I know the analytics types love him, Warren Sharp and some other dude either from outsiders or PFF don't recall.  In short, they think he has it down as for how to play the percentages on each play. 

 

 

Love how Buck’s voice indicated that there was no chance he was going to complete that Seals-Jones pass until he came down with it.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Riggo-toni]

I have a feeling Cosmi will move to RG next year to replace Scherff, and we will have 2 new OTs.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Heinicke is a worst a top 20 starter (when healthy). I think it’s ok to say he can at least be Ryan Fitzpatrick so that’s good in the sense we haven’t lost much at that position. 
 

Terry McLaurin deserves so much more than this franchise. Hope he’s not “underrated” for his entire career because he plays for this dump. 
 

Jamin Davis and Sam Cosmi both scored very high on PFF this week. Davis was our highest graded defender. 
 

Everything else is sub optimal. Chase Young is not a great player. He’s Brian Orakpo right now with more talent. Blond dreaded Jadeveon Clowney. His performance thus far has been very very concerning. 
 

It’s hard to be a good NFL defense year over year. The data backs it up so i expected regression but this defense is horrible right now. Nobody should feel good about it. 
 

Landon Collins’ was the last little gift from Bruce Allen and I’ll forever hate him for it. He’s only a “name” player because he went to Bama and was a Sean Taylor fan as a kid. Get him tf out of here.

 

All that being said, we earned some breathing room to improve with last night’s win. There’s no code red. Season isn’t “over” in terms of optics or enthusiasm. And best yet, New York can’t say the same.  They’re screwed. Daniel Jones is Kirk Cousins at best and his 5th year option is coming up. Taking Saquon was a disaster. Their defense is meh. Good luck with that ****. 

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, moondog said:

QB: I think we are all rightfully happy for and excited about Heinicke. So I’ll focus on a few negatives. He can have some accuracy issues - some high balls or throws slightly behind - this can lead to picks or the one to Terry on the slant might have been a TD if he led him instead of making him break stride to catch a slightly behind ball. Also we have no business throwing screens with him unless to backfield players leaking out or receivers running back toward centerline - those throws out to waiting receivers…he just doesn’t have a cannon so by the time the ball gets there the receivers don’t have much room to make a play. 
 

RB: this is still an area KDawg and I disagree, which I think is rare. I believe Gibson Is fully capable of the increased workload. He’s a 230lb bully and his first run on the interception drive he ran right over a defender for 10+. He’s always moving the pile forward. Because of his 40 time people forget how big and strong he is and I actually think he can really wear defenses down. But I still like McKissic more as a receiving threat. 
 

TE: I really like Thomas. I’ve been surprised that RSJ is basically our #2 but he made a huge play last night. But I hope Bates and Sammis continue to develop. 
 

OL: their strength is clearly run blocking which plays into feeding Gibson and Patterson if the game flow allows. Pass blocking has been poor but I think Heinicke kinda alleviates that. 
 

WR: We are so lucky to have Terry. I’d still like to have more shots downfield to him and Dyami but it seems like the Giants wanted to keep things in front of them hoping eventually the offense would make a mistake. I think Humphries is a better version of trey Quinn and that is not a complement. He’s quick sure but he’s got short arms and somewhat suspect hands. Tbh I’d rather see cam sims out there or maybe even some snaps for Milne. 
 

Overall we need more chunk plays. Heinicki averaged about 7.3 ypa but that’s because he completed such a high percentage of passes. Terry averaged less then 10 ypc which is not ideal at. I honestly don’t want to get into the defense because it’s depressing. 

 

I actually think you have my take on Gibson wrong, to be honest.

 

I don't think he is an every down back for a few reasons:

 

1) He never has been a full time back. The beating you take on a down to down/game to game basis is significant and he hasn't taken a 16 game beating and made it through yet.

 

I also don't think his best usage is as a battering ram. I am fully sold on Gibson's ability as a running back and as a receiving threat. I am not sold on his ability to carry the burden for the entire offense in the running game on an every game basis and make it through the season. I am also concerned that we will significantly lessen his shelf life if we use him as we did against the Chargers. By multiple years.

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

38 minutes ago, Heathen said:

only saw some of the game: was Chase Young doubled a lot or just having an issue getting through one guy?

 

I saw some stuff where it seemed the Edge guy's responsibility to peel off if the RB went out into a route.  Seemed to happen a bit with Young?

[KDawg]

37 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

Can someone please explain to me what the hell is happening with Chase Young?  I mean he made the wrong read on that one zone-read, but it looked like a good play.

Other than that it seems he's non-existent.

 

Coming out I actually did a write up on him and why I didn't think the generational label was fair to him and that he is far from a complete player despite how ultra talented he is.

 

I am still on that same wave length with Young. He could turn into an absolute animal.

 

But what he was weak at in college, and still to this day: He doesn't use his hands well to get OT's off balance. He relies on his footspeed. NFL OTs have it. Look at the games in college he went up against pseudo NFL talent... He struggled more. Rashawn Slater did to him in the NFL the exact same thing in college. Young doesn't use his hands well and relies too much on burst and speed to get around. Or straight bull rushes, which NFL OTs can anchor.