The Official Roster Thread or similar ;)

[ExoDus84]

Per John Keim so far:

 

Released:

QB Montez

WR Tony Brown

OL Jon Toth

CB Cole Luke

CB Linden Stephens

[Chris 44]

8 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Probably depends on how desperate a team is for interior DL. If they're convinced that they'll probably have to let him walk after this season and they get a decent offer then I'd certainly take it.

Depends whats on the table obviously but guess you gotta ask are we a better team without him plus whatever compensation we get? Not sure we would be for realistic compensation.

[MartinC]

34 minutes ago, Veretax said:

Would we seriously trade Settle? I never even thought he was at risk/ Quality depth in the middle behind payne and Allen.  Of course resigning Allen maybe makes it moot.

 

Last year of his rookie deal and we probably cant pay him and pay Payne with Sweat and Young up on deck soon enough as well . That said it would need to be a strong offer to make it worth moving him because he is quality depth.

27 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

There's no way we're getting a Day 2 pick for Settle, especially when he's a free agent after the season.

 

Then he wont be traded.

[Chris 44]

Just now, ExoDus84 said:

Per John Keim so far:

 

Released:

QB Montez

WR Tony Brown

OL Jon Toth

CB Cole Luke

CB Linden Stephens

John Toth....feel sorry for the dude, his locker has masking tape instead of a name placard.

[RWJ]

Just want to see Milne make the final 53.  

[Going Commando]

21 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

For me too.  I liked him some before the draft though, talked about it a little at the time albeit I didn't beat the drum for him.   I am a fan of his play for reasons I've mentioned.

 

But catching up on podcasts today looks like they will try to put Milne on the practice squad.   Will see if the beat guys prove correct. 

 

As for AGG, my concerns about him is he's a bit stiff and i am not convinced he can win against physical covers.   Rewatching some of his college games recently, I like how he wins on slants.  Contested catches.  Last night, he ran a nice comeback route.    I am ok with them giving him a chance.  I've become a bit sour in recent years over WRs who aren't hot at seperating and I think AGG could struggle with that but he does run some routes where he can seperate.  I remain on the fence about him. 

 

I think you've got it backwards.  To me AGG is the one who separates and Milne is the stiff grinder who doesn't get any separation and makes his living on tough catches in traffic.  Especially when he lined up outside.  I went back through his cut ups and I didn't think Milne was a good route runner.  I think he has poor flexibility and he has no explosiveness whatsoever.  He's got an upright running style with a short little stride but he still takes a ton of gather steps to change directions.  As a result, he rounds off all of his breaks and doesn't generate separation.  He's also got such a short stride that he's not very fast either, and won't win footraces against NFL corners so he's got limited vertical utility.  His big plays in college came from him coming down with tough contested catches.

 

I don't agree that AGG is stiff.  He's not overly explosive, but there is some explosiveness there.  Here are a pair of plays from his game against Syracuse in 2019 where he juked his corner out of their cleats and demonstrated quickness:

 

 

 

And the other thing is he is much bigger than Milne and has a bigger catch radius, so even if he didn't get off the line and get open better than Milne--I think he does--he still gives his QB better throwing windows.  Plus he's a much more physical threat after the catch than Milne, plus he can straight up jump over the top of defenders in a way that Milne can't.

 

I don't think there is any doubt for me that AGG is a significantly bigger talent than Milne.  He's flashed in the preseason games and Milne hasn't, he was a better player in college than Milne was, and he was also a fourth round pick whereas Milne was a the second to last pick in the seventh.  Milne is also on the roster bubble for a reason, and I could be wrong, but I don't think Gandy-Golden is.

 

I know you've cited reports that Milne killed it in practices and we haven't heard similar reports about AGG, but I'm not really moved by incomplete tweets and reports about how well these players are practicing.  I think you put more faith in the analysis of our beat reporters than they deserve, given how many of them thought Temarrick Hemingway was going to be our back up TE.  I think they vastly oversell their ability to figure out what the coaches are doing with the roster based on what they can see in practice.

[goskins10]

52 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

But that's true of any undrafted player, that NFL teams had 7 (or really 😎 shots at them. Doesn't mean their value can't change. Is Adam Thielen still worthless because he once went undrafted? No, because value changes. We've literally seen it first hand as Allen went from undrafted to being traded for a 5th round pick. So his value went up. You can believe there's isn't league wide interest in Allen, but there's a big difference in trading assets for a player and claiming a player on waivers. Roughly 20 players get claimed off waivers EVERY year just after cutdowns. And it's not like those other teams are broadcasting their interest in the waived players. I think its beyond naive to think that literally zero NFL teams would claim a former starting QB making the bare minimum salary. The bare is exceptionally low when teams are looking for QBs That's how desperate many teams are.

 

Tony Romo was an undrafted free agent and at one time he would have brought 2 1sts, maybe more. The thing those two have in common that Kyle Allen has not is they have had significant success in the NFL. Kyle Allen has done virtually nothing but have a nice game or two with Carolina then turn into a TO machine. He had 16 ints (to 17 TDs) and 13 fumbles, 7 lost in 12 starts. That's almost 2 TOs a game. As for us trading a 5th rd pick - that was not our best move. But even so it was pre-injury and fair enough he didn't look half bad in the two games he played till he got injured. But Kyle Allen post injury is clearly much worse. Not a slam on him really as it was a gruesome injury. One that should take 2 yrs to heal. Could he continue to improve and heal? Sure, anything is possible. But if you want him for next year, that makes no sense as he will be a URFA after this season. 

 

But I also said if he gets picked up, so be it. I just don't see it as a loss. He is at best a journeyman back-up. I would rather keep say Dax Milne or Peyton Barber as they can make a positive impact on the team every game. If we get to Kyle Allen, the season is over. Just lose out and get a top pick.

 

As for waivers vs. trading for him - not sure what you said is true. If they claim him off waivers they have to give him a roster spot on the 53. You want to give a guy like that a roster spot when he has not even been in camp? They are too precious to waste IMO. But I could be wrong. Stranger and even dumber stuff has happened. But I just don't see it. 

 

It doesn't matter. They will keep him on the 53 making this all hypothetical.  

 

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

3 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

If there is someone in a front office/coaching staff that loved Kyle Allen coming out of college that's all it takes. That's how we ended up trading for John Beck.

 

and also perhaps how we ended up making the high hopes trade for Kevin Hogan from the Browns

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Malapropismic Depository

[Califan007 The Constipated]

7 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

and also perhaps how we ended up making the high hopes trade for Kevin Hogan from the Browns

 

Oh, ****, I forgot about him lol...

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Not a bad sign when teams know who your DT4 is.

 

Damn, good point lol...

[NewCliche21]

3 hours ago, Califan007 said:

It's kinda weird when Dallas fans put more praise on the WFT than some Washington fans do lol...on Cowboyszone someone recently said that they thought their D-Line was better than ours. I was about to log in to respond to that nonsense when another Cowboys fans said "Their backup DLinemen are Ioannidis and Settle. Both would start easily for us." It didn't feel right lol...

 

Wow, that's like watching the dumb kid get a question right.

Edited August 30, 2021 by NewCliche21

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[LetThePointsSoar]

2 hours ago, Captain James said:

This.

 

SCORE MOAR POINTS PLEASE. 

 

Way moar. Like, let the points SOAR, even. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

nevermind, read a post wrong...

 

But just so no post goes to waste, I want to remind everyone to post moar good posts everyone

Edited August 30, 2021 by Malapropismic Depository

[Ball Security]

 

 

Wonder who he’s thinking of when he mentions 3 surprises.

Not sure what constitutes a surprise.  I’ll guess Bostic, Moreland and Sims.  Those would be surprises to me.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I don’t get all the handwringing over Milne. I’d like to stash him on the PS and think that’s where he’ll end up.

 

Two things to consider...

 

One: Other teams passed on him in the draft and have their own guys that they like and want to develop. And I’m pretty sure to poach a player you have to give him a spot on the 53. Just putting a guy on the 53 that hasn’t been at a single practice is a tough ask.

 

Two: I’m an idiot and the above statement may have no merit.

 

 

[Ball Security]

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

6 hours ago, goskins10 said:

Still not following the math. 🙂  Keeping Allen is still one player. Cutting Barber is still one player... LOL

Cut both, get 2 spots. If you could get Allen to the PS, fine.  But I’m not sure he’d love that.  

 

To your $850k practice squad player comment, I don’t think it works that way.  They would cut the player, the contract is gone, then they offer whatever to resign them to the PS.  

7 hours ago, terpfan said:

He’s a QB though, I think you are underestimating how in demand an even semi-competent QB is. I agree with Jericho I think he’d get claimed quickly. 

Maybe.  But he’s a QB who would have to learn the system in-flight.  As I said, I think he’ll get picked up after an injury or two.  But I think he’s clear waivers and last a few weeks. 

3 hours ago, Chris 44 said:

Think it was Pittman4two that put it best..."the team that scores the most points usually wins".

That really was a John Maddenism.  

[RawRebel]

15 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

 

 

Who?

[carex]

2 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

Last year of his rookie deal and we probably cant pay him and pay Payne with Sweat and Young up on deck soon enough as well . That said it would need to be a strong offer to make it worth moving him because he is quality depth.

 

Then he wont be traded.

 

there's also possibility of player for player trades

[dswerdlw]

Dolphins seem to be cutting LB Benderick McKinney (according to Aaron Wilson, Houston based reporter who covers NFL and Texans). Honestly, I don't know much about him. Does anyone think he should be someone of interest to the WFT? Our linebacker depth is not good. 

Edited August 30, 2021 by dswerdlw
source

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I know you've cited reports that Milne killed it in practices and we haven't heard similar reports about AGG, but I'm not really moved by incomplete tweets and reports about how well these players are practicing.  I think you put more faith in the analysis of our beat reporters than they deserve, given how many of them thought Temarrick Hemingway was going to be our back up TE.  I think they vastly oversell their ability to figure out what the coaches are doing with the roster based on what they can see in practice.

 

I'll address this point above first.  And I'll respond to the other part of your post shortly. I agree with some of the things you said about AGG-Milne but also disagree with some of it, and I think to an extent you might be missing what i think about both players so i'll clarify in a post shortly. 

 

 I do like Milne over AGG. Would I bet the farm on either player or one over the other?  No way.   I am not that firm on either one.    But if they go AGG (which I expect) over Milne, I won't go nuts.   I get it, its cool.  😀

 

I've described as many specifics about what AGG does well as just about anyone on this thread or close enough.  I was the first guy complementing him after his preseason game #2.  But if the idea is for me to be sold on him being a really good NFL starter.  I am not sold.    I don't know for sure, of course.  But, I am not as jazzed as you seem to be about his prospects.  But I don't hate that dude.  My gut it both guys are backups, with Milne having the better shot to be a decent albeit not an all star type starting slot WR.  

 

I was actually at 6 practices in Richmond.  So nope I am far from just judging it by beat reporter posts.  You know I like to watch players especially WRs.  I know you do, too.  I am mostly judging by what i saw.   And I try to keep an open mind to what i am watching.  For example, I was one of the higher guys here on the Fitz acquistion.   After watching him throw again and again and again in pratice, I am not as sold.   I've seen enough inconsistency from him to make me pause.   I try to avoid confirmation bias.  I've changed my mind on some players after watching practices.   With Fitz I think he can be good enough but watching enough of him makes me understand why he's had some of those bad games in his career, too. 

 

My take of Milne being less stiff than AGG is mostly based on them both running about 12 feet from where i was sitting in training camp and running routes again and again and again and again.  Yes their pro day numbers (on agility) also back up what i saw.  But I didn't know the apples to apples pro day numbers when watching them practice.  But I also said both are stiff to an extent.  Neither guy looked like for example as spry as Terry or Humphries.   

 

Seeing it in person for me is night and day versus youtube clips.  Part of the reason why I'll run with beat reporters observations over just flat out ignoring them has nothing to do with trusting their football acumen.  It's purely about watching certain things in practice can be so obvious, that you don't really have to be that football smart.  I could mindlessly watch Humphries and AGG and Milne run routes and I could see who is quicker in and out of their breaks without really thinking that hard about it.  I can tell that Reyes can seperate but tends to have checkered hands without thinking that hard, etc.   Some of this stuff is clear as day and requires very little nuance thinking. 

 

As you know, camp evaluations are a running commentary, its not static.  Camp is a month give or take long, not a week for a reason.  Just because things which were true weeks before have now changed doesn't mean what happened prior wasn't real.  The purpose for camp is in part to see improvement and heck some get better and some can get worse.  You hit Keim I recall weeks back for saying earlier in the off season that S. Charles is seen more as a guard than a tackle but then after in camp Charles was playing tackle some in practice -- you said it proves Keim is talking from his butt and doesn't know what he's talking about.   But to me far from so.  All it meant was they were seeing if Charles can play tackle and wanted him to be a utility guy.  It doesn't mean that Keim was making up things when he said people he talked to with the team liked him better as a guard right now.  Keim isn't known as a dude who just makes things up.  And if things evolve over time, that's just how it is.   

 

On point here, people who covered the team said that Rivera suggested AGG had a bad first preseason game but improved after.  According to some he was on the bubble then but now not as much so because he improved.  It doesn't mean that him being on the bubble previously was a lie.  It's just changing data, that's all.  

 

On the same point, Hemingway looked good in practice.  I saw it to an extent too.  Then he played poorly in a preseason game, got a concussion, and things changed.  That's what happens in camp.  It doesn't mean that Hemingway looked good early in camp was a fantasy.  I saw for myself Hemingway played a ton with the 2nd team back then.  Things change. 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Dark Acre]

2 hours ago, Number 44 said:

BJ Hill was a good place to take your date after the movies back in high school.  😉

And the Price is right.

[PartyPosse]

Meanwhile Trey Quinn just got cut from his 42nd team soooooo

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Ball Security]