Your way too early 2021 Draft Grades

[bowhunter]

On 5/2/2021 at 9:25 AM, KDawg said:

For the life of me I can’t understand why people are so hung up on Dallas getting Parsons.

 

I agree he has immense talent. But the character is a concern. If he’s still doing well with no character concerns in year 3 and Davis isn’t panning out I’d be more inclined to understand. But not now.

I'm on record of wanting Parsons. That hasn't changed. But only if RR signed off on him. If we drafted him, I would know that he passed to RR sniff test. I also felt that Chase and J.Allen would help steer him in the right direction, and that Parsons is a bad man (on the playing field..) So that being said I think it's only fair to admit that Dallas now has a badass LB corps.  Nothing wrong with admitting that. Last year they got one of my favs in Vander Esch, and now are adding Parsons AND Jabril. lt's one of their strengths while our LB corps has sucked eggs for a while now.

 

I lamented on the draft thread that the Dallas LB crew is gonna be a tough out with the addition of both Parsons and J. Cox. So to respectfully respond to your post, I'm "hung up" on Parsons because we will have to play against that corps of 3 (potential) studs and it's inevitable that they will make some big plays against us. I think it's fair to admit that good ball players make big plays. Parsons downfall was one of immaturity and boneheadedness. If he's outgrown it then it probably fair that will would rather have him on our team than someone elses. However, he is definitely on the wrong team to work past those issues if they still exist. Dallas has a reputation of letting children continue to act childish, so it's possible that he may well begin a downward spiral. In that light, I think the best thing that could have happened to Parsons would to have been draft by a man of character and responsibility like RR. (Nice to be able to read that, isn't it!) Regardless, the kid has talent. Please don't interpret my response as an indictment of J.Davis. I like the talent and the maturity he brings to the table. I'm gonna have fun watching him shine.

[CurseReversed]

A+ 

First time they have had a plus full sized draft class in as long as i can remember. Finally they get a chance to really flex what I thought was a sneaky good scouting dept even before Rivera. And I think they hit it out of the park.    I am not a big draft guru so I don't know most of the guys they picked but when you look into them, they all seem to make perfect sense.  They all have a story that checks out when you look at it through the lens of what we see as the overall WFT philosophy/strategy.

 

Its going to be fun to see who pans out and who doesn't because there are se many possibilities.

 

I honestly don't see a bust in any of the picks off the bat, but If i had to guess one for fun It would be Dax milne but that one is the obvious choice.  Maybe Cosmi never figures it out or can't make it at LT at the minimum.    Its tough to be a consistent LT. 

 

My guy for steal of the draft is Toney.  He looks ridiculous for a 7th round pick, I would have thought 3rd round all day.

The other 7th rounder, Bradley-King looks good too, I would have guessed 4th-5th for him. 

 

Davis is the guy I really am excited about though.  He is the Trey Lance of the defense.  Prototype centerpiece player with all the intangibles. 

 

 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Wasn't much to make me groan or scratch my head this year, and from most of what I've seen said about the majority of our picks, it's all incredibly positive.  However, I've seen a few draft grades articles on social media today that have us in the bottom half and even dead last, against the rest of the league.  I don't get it.

[Bifflog]

And just a reminder, draft grades themselves are not much of an indicator of anything, positive or negative...

 

 

[morpheusmeyers]

46 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Wasn't much to make me groan or scratch my head this year, and from most of what I've seen said about the majority of our picks, it's all incredibly positive.  However, I've seen a few draft grades articles on social media today that have us in the bottom half and even dead last, against the rest of the league.  I don't get it.

When reviews from professional outlets say things like "Linebacker wasn't a need" to justify criticizing the J. Davis pick, welllll.

 

Loved the J. Davis pick at #19 and the 3rd round selection of Dyami Brown. Would have preferred a trade up in round 2 for Moehrig or T. Jenkins but Cosmi is fine and addressed need. Interesting that (according to RR) another team wanted to trade up for our first 3rd round pick to take St. Juste. The TE in the 4th looked good at the Senior Bowl and is a solid blocker with untapped pass catching ability. Maybe a round too early, though? 

 

Overall, I liked the draft. 

 

What was the knock on Dylan Moses? I saw him in mocks going in rounds 3-5 and was surprised Wash didn't use a 7th on him when he was still available. 

[Warhead36]

59 minutes ago, morpheusmeyers said:

 

What was the knock on Dylan Moses? I saw him in mocks going in rounds 3-5 and was surprised Wash didn't use a 7th on him when he was still available. 

His injury last year really derailed him. He might be dunzo already.

[Wyndorf25]

On 5/2/2021 at 10:25 AM, HigSkin said:

 

Media generated hype and as usual, any reason for media to talk about Dallas. It's ridiculous really.

 

 

 

I mentioned this in another thread, but I'll expand here. Parsons will be a marked man on a defense that OCs will always concentrate on game-planning for. I can see a situation play out that makes Davis a legitimate DROY candidate as well. Davis gets to play behind Allen, Payne, Ioannidis up front, Young and Sweat coming off the edge.

 

Team's are going to HAVE to be VERY concerned with stopping those guys first. This should allow Davis the freedom to blitz, make plays on the ball in coverage and clean up on the havoc caused by the guys up front. All that usually leads to splash plays like sacks and turnovers, let alone many tackles. I'd be a very excited young man if I were Jamin.

[dswerdlw]

I feel very good about the draft.  I'm on board with all of the players we took.  I trust RR and company when deciding BPA at positions of need. The only quibble I have is that we doubled-up on edge depth and at wide receiver instead of doubling-up on linebacker, which was our weakest group going into the draft. I'm guessing that teams took Dylan Moses off their boards for medical reasons. Still, we might have taken someone like Justin Hilliard instead of Bradley-King or Shaka Toney. I can live with Mayo and Hudson as LB depth. Beyond that, hmmmm.... I'm hoping that Harvey-Clemons comes back strong. I wouldn't be surprised to see us pick up another veteran linebacker before next season. Of course, everything I've just said can be forgotten if the team is planning to use Landon Collins at LB. 

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

2 hours ago, morpheusmeyers said:

 

Interesting that (according to RR) another team wanted to trade up for our first 3rd round pick to take St. Juste. 

 

I wonder why I keep seeing people say St. Juste could have been taken later.  WFT was literally on the phone with a team that wanted to trade up for him. So he was getting picked at #74 by WFT or the team we traded with. There was no getting him later...except maybe at #84...and I know that’s not the “later” you folks are talking about.

[Commander -JB-]

Anywhere from an F to an A+ really depending on how good or bad these draft picks wind up 

[London Kev]

3 hours ago, Bifflog said:

And just a reminder, draft grades themselves are not much of an indicator of anything, positive or negative...

 

 

 

I've been trying to make sense of that graphic. Is it what playing Space Invaders looks like when you're stoned?

[mistertim]

13 hours ago, KDawg said:

Like I said yesterday @Koolblue13, and I know you agree:

 

Teams that can absorb a character issue are that way for a reason... because they dont absorb character issues. 

 

I think the fact that Parsons went to the Cowboys will make it even more likely that his character concerns will flourish. They seem to have a knack for taking potentially troubled players and making sure to nurture it so they get in more trouble and stay in it.

[Going Commando]

Cards on the table, who would you all have picked at each of the choices we had?  No hindsight and no hypothetical trades, who would you have picked in the moment?

 

For me:

19 - Jeremiah Owusu-Koromoah

51 - Sam Cosmi

74 - Wyatt Davis

82 - Tommy Tremble

124 - Tylan Wallace

163 - Jamar Johnson

225 - Trey Smith

240 - Bryce Thompson

246 - Marvin Wilson

258 - Cade Johnson

[LD0506]

11 hours ago, London Kev said:

 

I've been trying to make sense of that graphic. Is it what playing Space Invaders looks like when you're stoned?

 

I thought it was one of those pics you have to stare at and defocus your eyes to make an image appear

[philibusters]

19.  Christian Darrisaw

51.  Jeremiah Owusu-Koromoah

74.  Wyatt Davis 

82.  Dyami Brown

124.  Brevin Jordan

163:  Richard LeCounte

225:  Thomas Graham Jr.

240.  Shaka Toney

246.  Camaron Cheeseman

258.  Jarrett Paterson

 

When you get to the middle rounds I didn't know a lot of the prospects so it is hard for me to really have informed opinion.  It would be different if I was scout or GM and was paid to know all the guys.  My opinions would be much more educated.  I took guys like Brevin Jordan, Richard LeCounte, and Thomas Graham based on need and name recognition more so than because I have an educated opinion that they are the best fit for the team.

 

The one liberty I took was assuming that Cheeseman would still be available at 246.  All the other guys were available at the spot I took them in this hypo.  Obviously in real life Cheeseman went at 225 to WFT, but since no other long snappers were taken after him, I bended the rules and assumed he would still be around at 246.  Who knows if that would be the case.  It  could be only two long snappers were taken because there were only two worth drafting and some other team would have grabbed Cheeseman between 225 and 246.

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by philibusters

[Number 44]

5 hours ago, philibusters said:

 

The one liberty I took was assuming that Cheeseman would still be available at 246.  All the other guys were available at the spot I took them in this hypo.  Obviously in real life Cheeseman went at 225 to WFT, but since no other long snappers were taken after him, I bended the rules and assumed he would still be around at 246.  Who knows if that would be the case.  It  could be only two long snappers were taken because there were only two worth drafting and some other team would have grabbed Cheeseman between 225 and 246.

I read that there were 2 draft-worthy LS, and Carolina took the Alabama guy before we took Cheeseman.  No other team drafting a LS after we did may well speak to the lack of another one worth drafting being available, rather than that no other team wanted one.  No way to know if true or not.  Seems like I either read or heard on the radio that NYG was interested in Cheeseman.  Again, no way to know unless they were to come out and say it.

[Otis Wonsley Posse]

On 5/2/2021 at 7:27 AM, Burgold said:

I can see this take. I'm also surprised it was such a "needs" based draft. I suspect Bates is a great example of that. Washington needed a blocking tight end and so they chose the best blocking tight end they could find versus the best tight end prospect (or other prospect)  They finally deviated off needs in the 7th round and found guys like Shaka Toney who sound really intriguing, but the front office was so need focused they essentially traded up for a long snapper.

Brown’s hands are anything but mediocre...Heels grad here who’s watched 300 games

[IrepDC]

I have to give this draft class a solid B. I don't give out many A's so we were near the top of my list still. We walked a very fine line between need and BPA this year. Overall we did a pretty good job of balancing the two. The theme of this draft was high character, high potential, versatile players with room to grow. Our top 4 picks all have high ceilings with serviceable floors. The majority of our picks were special teams standouts in college also. They all seem to be "I'll do whatever I can to help the team" guys. The only thing missing, for me, was another LB pick. The depth in the LB room still worries me. All of our LB woes, and we have had plenty, will be on Davis this year. Hopefully Holcomb steps up too. I would have graded an A with another LB though because there were quite a few there for us to take. I feel like our staff essentially bet on their ability to coach and develop players because all of our picks will need it. 

[Burgold]

1 hour ago, Otis Wonsley Posse said:

Brown’s hands are anything but mediocre...Heels grad here who’s watched 300 games

Cool. I must have read that on some evaluator's report.

[Forehead]

Is it too late to offer an opinion.  I'm going C+/B- for now.  There was nothing splashy about this, though I keep reminding myself that good team who draft later have solid but underwhelming looking drafts all the time, because they already have star pieces and are just reloading.  Hope that's the case here.

 

Personally, I would have done it differently, and I say this with the understanding that one pick change probably changes how several other teams react.  I liked the positions we hit but would have done them in a different order.  Assuming the same availability, at every selection I probably go tackle first, whether it is Darrisaw or a slight trade back and taking one of Jenkins/Eichenberg, both of whom I liked better than Cosmi.

 

In the second, I would have gone Freiermuth instead, he was the clear 2nd best TE this year and should be a solid contributor for years.  And then for the first 3rd, I'd have probably gone with Jabril Cox, and stuck with Dyami Brown with the next one.

 

WFT went LB/OT/CB/WR.  If it were me, I'd have done it OT/TE/LB/WR, and been more excited with what we were bringing into camp.

I'm just not enamored with that CB we took in the 3rd, and I expect nothing from that TE that we took.  Also, I don't care how good his name is, there is no need to draft a long snapper in any round earlier than the 7th, if that. I'd have rather taken a flyer on a high upside injury guy like Dylan Moses or Trey Smith, like the Chiefs did with the very next pick.

 

I'm perfectly happy to be wrong.  I like the positions we addressed.  I would have just done it in a different order and brought in a different group of players.  C+/B- feels right at this time.

[terpfan]

13 hours ago, philibusters said:

19.  Christian Darrisaw

51.  Jeremiah Owusu-Koromoah

74.  Wyatt Davis 

82.  Dyami Brown

124.  Brevin Jordan

163:  Richard LeCounte

225:  Thomas Graham Jr.

240.  Shaka Toney

246.  Camaron Cheeseman

258.  Jarrett Paterson

 

When you get to the middle rounds I didn't know a lot of the prospects so it is hard for me to really have informed opinion.  It would be different if I was scout or GM and was paid to know all the guys.  My opinions would be much more educated.  I took guys like Brevin Jordan, Richard LeCounte, and Thomas Graham based on need and name recognition more so than because I have an educated opinion that they are the best fit for the team.

 

The one liberty I took was assuming that Cheeseman would still be available at 246.  All the other guys were available at the spot I took them in this hypo.  Obviously in real life Cheeseman went at 225 to WFT, but since no other long snappers were taken after him, I bended the rules and assumed he would still be around at 246.  Who knows if that would be the case.  It  could be only two long snappers were taken because there were only two worth drafting and some other team would have grabbed Cheeseman between 225 and 246.

 

19. Christian Darrisaw

51. Jeremiah Owusu-Koromoah

74. Hunter Long

82. Jabril Cox (but in hindsight I like the Brown pick)

124. Jamar Johnson

After that I probably wouldn’t have had any players I felt that strongly about. 

[KDawg]

10 hours ago, Forehead said:

Is it too late to offer an opinion.  I'm going C+/B- for now.  There was nothing splashy about this, though I keep reminding myself that good team who draft later have solid but underwhelming looking drafts all the time, because they already have star pieces and are just reloading.  Hope that's the case here.

 

Personally, I would have done it differently, and I say this with the understanding that one pick change probably changes how several other teams react.  I liked the positions we hit but would have done them in a different order.  Assuming the same availability, at every selection I probably go tackle first, whether it is Darrisaw or a slight trade back and taking one of Jenkins/Eichenberg, both of whom I liked better than Cosmi.

 

In the second, I would have gone Freiermuth instead, he was the clear 2nd best TE this year and should be a solid contributor for years.  And then for the first 3rd, I'd have probably gone with Jabril Cox, and stuck with Dyami Brown with the next one.

 

WFT went LB/OT/CB/WR.  If it were me, I'd have done it OT/TE/LB/WR, and been more excited with what we were bringing into camp.

I'm just not enamored with that CB we took in the 3rd, and I expect nothing from that TE that we took.  Also, I don't care how good his name is, there is no need to draft a long snapper in any round earlier than the 7th, if that. I'd have rather taken a flyer on a high upside injury guy like Dylan Moses or Trey Smith, like the Chiefs did with the very next pick.

 

I'm perfectly happy to be wrong.  I like the positions we addressed.  I would have just done it in a different order and brought in a different group of players.  C+/B- feels right at this time.

I think you’re underestimating the impact a top flight athletic LB who can play sideline to sideline and has a high tackle percentage and will play downhill will impact this team.

 

But I can see why you wanted a tackle. I wasn’t enthralled with Eichenberg/Jenkins and Darrisaw’s reported core injury that he had surgery on scared more than us away (hence his drop). But I liked Cosmi more than all of them sans a healthy Darrisaw anyways.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

FYI for everyone that wants Parsons.  The Athletic is quoting the Cowboys DC as saying how they view him.  They want to play him like we did with Brian Orakpo in 2009.  They view him as a versatile Edge guy who will be an off-ball linebacker on occasion, but generally he's an Edge.  They want to use him like Seattle did with Bruce Irvin.

 

So, character evaluations aside, just from a scheme point...he doesn't fit in our defense.  If we had Parsons, who goes off the field on passing downs?  Chase Young?  Montez Sweat?  What about Jon Allen or Matt Ioannidis?

 

Dallas drafted him at 12, and doesn't seem to think he's a Stack linebacker.  If we had the same evaluation as Dallas, then Parsons doesn't fix our LB problem.

 

Edit:  Also...his Bruce Irvin role is a 4-3 under, but when everybody is forced to run Nickel now, that role isn't going to get much playing time.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Alcoholic Zebra

[Anselmheifer]

24 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

FYI for everyone that wants Parsons.  The Athletic is quoting the Cowboys DC as saying how they view him.  They want to play him like we did with Brian Orakpo in 2009.  They view him as a versatile Edge guy who will be an off-ball linebacker on occasion, but generally he's an Edge.  They want to use him like Seattle did with Bruce Irvin.

 

So, character evaluations aside, just from a scheme point...he doesn't fit in our defense.  If we had Parsons, who goes off the field on passing downs?  Chase Young?  Montez Sweat?  What about Jon Allen or Matt Ioannidis?

 

Dallas drafted him at 12, and doesn't seem to think he's a Stack linebacker.  If we had the same evaluation as Dallas, then Parsons doesn't fix our LB problem.

 

Edit:  Also...his Bruce Irvin role is a 4-3 under, but when everybody is forced to run Nickel now, that role isn't going to get much playing time.

I hope that’s exactly how they use him. Would be a huge waste. He’s a great run stopping LB and a great blitzer up the middle. I’d scheme to maximize those strengths if I were them. They now have Cox to help hide Parsons in coverage. 

[Going Commando]

They still have Vander Esch and Jaylon Smith under contract too right?  That's a log jam at the LBer position.  Probably why they want to try some kind of tweener role for Parsons.