Welcome to Washington John Bates TE Boise State

[KDawg]

Not totally relevant to Bates but to the tight end position:

 

 

If they like him, he’s going to have to make the team or someone will take him. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

13 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

We were so desperate for a #2 Tight End, that I was practically at the point that no matter what player they selected, as long as he had the 2 letters, T.E., next to his name and that was all - then I was going to celebrate.

Our backup TE's have literally been that horrendously bad. Literally anything would be an upgrade for players behind Logan Thomas

I definitely expected to select a TE, just didn't think it would be him at that slot.

[Chump Bailey]

I think Bates is our next Chris Cooley. While I admit to relying a bit too heavily on PFF's analysis, their opinion about Bates is spot on IMO in that he just does everything well. I think he is going to change some opinions on here soon. 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

I think Bates is our next Chris Cooley. While I admit to relying a bit too heavily on PFF's analysis, their opinion about Bates is spot on IMO in that he just does everything well. I think he is going to change some opinions on here soon. 

Not really the same kind of player as Cooley. Cooley was a move guy more than Bates is. If “H-Back” was in the dictionary Cooley would have his picture plastered next to it. 
 

Bates is more of an in-line tight end type of player. But I think they may use him a bit in the H role so I see why you say that.

[Koolblue13]

The KC Chiefs have 2 TEs who combined for 13 receptions despite being active on game day for a reason. Not all production shows up on the stat line. Bates has a floor of Sprinkle and lots of upside.

[Thinking Skins]

I like this pick a lot. I wanted a FB going into the draft and I like his position flex. Word is he has good hands. I don't really want to go by 40 time and athleticism but I hope that he can open up parts of the offense and the running game as well as more out of the backfield. 

[Llevron]

18 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Not really the same kind of player as Cooley. Cooley was a move guy more than Bates is. If “H-Back” was in the dictionary Cooley would have his picture plastered next to it. 
 

Bates is more of an in-line tight end type of player. But I think they may use him a bit in the H role so I see why you say that.

 

What's the difference between H back and in line? You said 'move' so my assumption is that H backs are usually running to their blocks instead of waiting for the player to come to them. But I have no idea wtf I'm talking about to be honest. 

[KDawg]

Just now, Llevron said:

 

What's the difference between H back and in line? You said 'move' so my assumption is that H backs are usually running to their blocks instead of waiting for the player to come to them. But I have no idea wtf I'm talking about to be honest. 

 

H is more of a tight end/full back hybrid. Two point stance off set wing/split backfield spot that motions, hack blocks (kicks out backside end), runs routes from the backfield, leads running plays downhill and not against DL all the time. Has the flexibility to free release on routes. 

 

In-line usually is responsible for a linebacker/DE/hybrid in the blocking game. Hand in the dirt. Rarely motion. Gets jammed at the line. They are generally "in the soup" more than an HBack.

 

Basics. There's a lot more to it but that should sum it up.

 

This is why you see teams utilizing some TE types as HBacks. 

 

Cooley was a guy that did both. Wasn't a pure route runner (like Bates) but could block and catch (like Bates). So I get the Cooley/H comparisons. Bates could absolutely do it. Wasn't really his thing in college necessarily but it's something he could pull off.

 

Logan Thomas is NOT an H (though he does it at times) because he's not really a guy you want blocking line backers or leading a back through a hole. He can play in-line as an adequate blocker but his strength is as a detached receiver tight end or as an in-line guy.

 

Relating it to this draft class: Kyle Pitts is a detached receiving tight end that is not a great blocker, but if you were going to try to utilize him in that way you'd want it to be as a move guy and not so much as an in-line guy to give him a shot and delivering a blow and sneaking out into the flat on a route to keep guys honest.

 

Brevin Jordan is the same. 

 

Pat Freiermuth can do it all, but you'd rather have him in-line or as a move guy vs. as a detached guy because he's not a dynamic receiver (but can still catch).

 

Bushman is more of an in-line/H type. 

[Llevron]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

H is more of a tight end/full back hybrid. Two point stance off set wing/split backfield spot that motions, hack blocks (kicks out backside end), runs routes from the backfield, leads running plays downhill and not against DL all the time. Has the flexibility to free release on routes. 

 

In-line usually is responsible for a linebacker/DE/hybrid in the blocking game. Hand in the dirt. Rarely motion. Gets jammed at the line. They are generally "in the soup" more than an HBack.

 

Basics. There's a lot more to it but that should sum it up.

 

Yep that helps thats what I needed. 

 

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

This is why you see teams utilizing some TE types as HBacks. 

 

Cooley was a guy that did both. Wasn't a pure route runner (like Bates) but could block and catch (like Bates). So I get the Cooley/H comparisons. Bates could absolutely do it. Wasn't really his thing in college necessarily but it's something he could pull off.

 

I'm going to be pretty interested in how they use him. I know they dig a lot of motion and movement in this offense. 

 

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Logan Thomas is NOT an H (though he does it at times) because he's not really a guy you want blocking line backers or leading a back through a hole. He can play in-line as an adequate blocker but his strength is as a detached receiver tight end or as an in-line guy.

 

Relating it to this draft class: Kyle Pitts is a detached receiving tight end that is not a great blocker, but if you were going to try to utilize him in that way you'd want it to be as a move guy and not so much as an in-line guy to give him a shot and delivering a blow and sneaking out into the flat on a route to keep guys honest.

 

Brevin Jordan is the same. 

 

Pat Freiermuth can do it all, but you'd rather have him in-line or as a move guy vs. as a detached guy because he's not a dynamic receiver (but can still catch).

 

Bushman is more of an in-line/H type. 

 

Appreciate all the extra color too. Helps me wrap my brain around the concepts better. 👍

[Koolblue13]

This kids about to go to blocking U.

[veteranskinsfan]

One scouting service says he is strictly a blocking tight end and WFT could have drafted him in a later round of the draft.

[Number 44]

12 hours ago, redskinss said:

That does seem like a bit of a red flag, retiring from football in college because of a hamstring injury makes me question his commitment.

But I'm sure our scouts and coaches covered that plenty and felt comfortable with his answers.

I read somewhere that Michigan decided to medically retire him in order to be able to offer another player a scholarship.  NCAA rules limit the number of scholarships and this was how Michigan could avoid being a man down on scholarships since St-Juste was out for the year with the bad hamstring injury.  Roster manipulation.  I don't think it was a matter of this kid "giving up" on football.

 

As for Bates, I am really warming up to the pick.  At first, like many, I thought he was strictly a blocking tight end, but the more I read about him, it seems that while yes, he is an excellent blocker, he also is very athletic, has great hands, and uses his body well to win the 50-50 balls.  What's not to like?  Yeah, I think our guys know what they are doing!

[Koolblue13]

Gonna be a fun jumbo package if we get Cosmi as an eligible receiver and Bates out there together.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, veteranskinsfan said:

One scouting service says he is strictly a blocking tight end and WFT could have drafted him in a later round of the draft.

 

There seem to be a ton of mixed views on him out there. Some saying he's a pure blocker and that's pretty much it (I feel like this is mostly based on looking at his stats), some saying he's more of a blocker who can occasionally do good things in the pass game if needed, some saying he has the potential to be a great receiving threat as well as blocker (a lot of that was a result of how he seemed to show at the Senior Bowl).

 

I've mentioned that I have a feeling WFT sees more potential in him than as mostly just a blocker, which is why they took him where they did. Should be interesting to see how it unfolds. 

[KDawg]

21 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

There seem to be a ton of mixed views on him out there. Some saying he's a pure blocker and that's pretty much it (I feel like this is mostly based on looking at his stats), some saying he's more of a blocker who can occasionally do good things in the pass game if needed, some saying he has the potential to be a great receiving threat as well as blocker (a lot of that was a result of how he seemed to show at the Senior Bowl).

 

I've mentioned that I have a feeling WFT sees more potential in him than as mostly just a blocker, which is why they took him where they did. Should be interesting to see how it unfolds. 

He has excellent hands and a wide catch radius. He just doesn't dazzle anyone with routes.

 

He is a blocking tight end that can and will catch. 

[dyst]

Maybe he will be our Jason Witten

[“Misdirection”]

Guys he’s a 2nd TE. His targets will be manufactured, very rarely a primary target. He doesn’t need to be elite at separation. His ability to block (and catch) will give our formations credibility to hide our intentions to run/pass. 
 

because of that, he’ll be targeted on PA routes and check downs for the most part. 
 

and if he gets 1-2 catches per game, he’s doubled the production of our entire group last season.

 

if 80 year old Jason Witten can get out of the booth and run PA drag routes and squat in zones for 4 yard curls, Bates will be fine.

Edited May 3, 2021 by LLandryistheshiz

[London Kev]

3 hours ago, LLandryistheshiz said:

Guys he’s a 2nd TE. His targets will be manufactured, very rarely a primary target. He doesn’t need to be elite at separation. His ability to block (and catch) will give our formations credibility to hide our intentions to run/pass. 
 

because of that, he’ll be targeted on PA routes and check downs for the most part. 
 

and if he gets 1-2 catches per game, he’s doubled the production of our entire group last season.

 

if 80 year old Jason Witten can get out of the booth and run PA drag routes and squat in zones for 4 yard curls, Bates will be fine.

 

This is exactly where I'm at. His main role will be blocking but the defense will still have to account for him because he can catch a few balls a game. He's a replacement for Sprinkle except hopefully with a higher ceiling.

 

I trust that RR and JDR know TEs (although I don't know how much input Jack would have had). They saw something in Logan Thomas last year and he turned out great (yes, I know Bates is a different type of TE, but my point still stands, dammit).

[Malapropismic Depository]

9 hours ago, KDawg said:

Not totally relevant to Bates but to the tight end position:

 

 

If they like him, he’s going to have to make the team or someone will take him. 

 

I like how he flat out declared that if he does not make the 53 man roster, then someone will take him from our PS.

There was no hesitancy, or even a question of whether or not that would happen.

Speaks highly of his potential, especially coming from Keim.

So high, in fact, he really deserves his own welcome thread, if Patterson gets one. Get on it, @zskins

 

EDIT : Oh wait, it was KDawg who said that someone will take him, not Keim.

I guess I'm not paying good attention 😄

Edited May 3, 2021 by Malapropismic Depository

[redskinsrmylyfe]

7 hours ago, Chump Bailey said:

I think Bates is our next Chris Cooley. While I admit to relying a bit too heavily on PFF's analysis, their opinion about Bates is spot on IMO in that he just does everything well. I think he is going to change some opinions on here soon. 

I hope you just spoke that into existence

[Malapropismic Depository]

Looking forward to the Cosmi-Bates package.

Or Cosmi along with Reyes, which we can call the Cosmic Rays Package

[redskinsrmylyfe]

7 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

Relating it to this draft class: Kyle Pitts is a detached receiving tight end that is not a great blocker, but if you were going to try to utilize him in that way you'd want it to be as a move guy and not so much as an in-line guy to give him a shot and delivering a blow and sneaking out into the flat on a route to keep guys honest.

 

Brevin Jordan is the same.

Although I agree with you that Bates and Cooley are not alike. I stand by Brevin Jordan's blocking ability. I'm of the belief you should always draft looking for starters and not someone who is classified as a third tight end and blocker. I do like Bates as a blocker but just not over Brevin Jordan overall. Guess I just don't see eye-to-eye with taking a blocking tight end and following it up by trading up for  a Long Snapper in the 6th 🤣🤣🤣. I've been right about a lot of players we've missed out on before but I will say that the last time I threw a fit over a pick it was Terry and I changed my mind after watching more of him that weekend but not getting a fuzzy feeling bout the 4th-7th this year.

[JaxJoe]

6 hours ago, veteranskinsfan said:

One scouting service says he is strictly a blocking tight end and WFT could have drafted him in a later round of the draft.

I wouldn't doubt that at all as 11 TE’s ranked higher than Bates went undrafted. It’s obvious there’s a crap ton more relevant evaluation that coaches and scouts do than watch highlights and cut-ups and that’s why guys like Dylan Moses goes undrafted, and why consensus top ranked safety Trevon Moehrig slips to the 2nd round and was actually the third safety selected., etc.. Bates clearly was liked enough by our staff so much that they didn’t want to risk losing him in the later rounds. What I initially want to see out of him is stellar blocking. With Fitzpatrick and his gutsy throws downfield, he’ll need a half second or more throwing time. I know a lot of us want a pass catching TE in case Logan Thomas goes down and our TE production grinds to a halt similar to when RB Gibson was out. We’ll just have to wait and see. 

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, redskinsrmylyfe said:

Although I agree with you that Bates and Cooley are not alike. I stand by Brevin Jordan's blocking ability. I'm of the belief you should always draft looking for starters and not someone who is classified as a third tight end and blocker. I do like Bates as a blocker but just not over Brevin Jordan overall. Guess I just don't see eye-to-eye with taking a blocking tight end and following it up by trading up for  a Long Snapper in the 6th 🤣🤣🤣. I've been right about a lot of players we've missed out on before but I will say that the last time I threw a fit over a pick it was Terry and I changed my mind after watching more of him that weekend but not getting a fuzzy feeling bout the 4th-7th this year.

If Jordan is going to be so great, why was he drafted in the 5th and not the 2nd or 3rd where he was mocked?

[JaxJoe]

35 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Oh wait, it was KDawg who said that someone will take him, not Keim.

I guess I'm not paying good attention 😄

Reyes did say he had several other offers from other teams and that he chose Washington. So it’s not impossible someone plucks him off our PS as he is already on other teams’ radars.