2021 NFL Draft Day Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Oh I think he's got significantly higher upside than Dalton did.  He's a big, imposing QB with the stature of a Peyton Manning.  I think his arm is special too.  He has a huge repertoire of throws.  Drives it with power when the moment calls for it, or drops the ball into the bucket with silky touch when that's what is needed.  He can put it on the money.  And I do think he's a good athlete who can stick off platform throws and pull it down and run for yardage.  He's just inconsistent.  He has so few reps and never had a season where his offense was truly in sync.  A real off-season where they come into the year on the same page and he's the starter and I think people see him as a first round pick.

 

 

I watched that game.  But I am not sold on a player's game or style based on a small sample size.  You got variance on almost any guy especially draftable QBs when it comes to selling them as gamers.  Most draftable QBs have their moments.  I do like leader-fiery-charasmatic types in my QBs everything being equal.   I've seen enough and read enough about Mills to guess that's not him. 

 

The huge repertoire of throws is a different way to say what I did which is he's great at changing arm speed.    Really nice touch on his throws.  So I agree with that point.  That's his special triat as I've said for awhile and consistently about Mills before he became more of a conversation topic.  

 

To me he has a decent arm versus "special".  He has OK to decent athleticism IMO versus being good and that's without factoring his 2 ACL's.  Imagine adding another major injury to that body? 

 

I agree he can put it on the money, too but the inconsistency of it IMO is very relevant as opposed to something to gloss over. Like I said about Josh Rosen when i watched him when he was on the trade market.  i loved Rosen's footwork.  I loved how he can make some special throws.  But it was inconsistent and in his case so was his decision making.  You refer to he's "just" inconsistent at it, granted you give a reason for it.   Maybe that reason applies here, don't know, but if it doesn't I think inconsistency is a pattern that follows plenty of players. 

 

For me inconsistency is a pattern, its a big deal.  As many superior atheltes have said many players can do it sometimes -- the difference is they can do it most of the time.

 

 

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, kingdaddy said:

No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm in the minority here of liking the 3 guys we have at QB. I'd wait til round 4 to even consider a QB unless my scouts tell me that there's a guy there in round 3 who has tremendous upside. 

Sorry KD.  I'm waking up now with my first cup of coffee.  md24 put that post out there.  My bad, brother.    Personally, I go QB in the 3rd but don't be surprised to see them jump on Mills in the 2nd.  I'd rather they wait until last pick in the 3rd if they want a QB or even 4th now to get one.

[Kelvin Bryant]

7 hours ago, petey hodge said:

 

If Jalen Hurts stays in that Eagles game... and we miss the playoffs.

 

What does that do to our draft position, and what would tonight have looked like for us?  Do we get Fields instead of the Bears?

 

Hmmm....

 

That's a myth. Hurts was doing nothing and the Eagles were going to lose either way.

[KDawg]

7 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm in the minority here of liking the 3 guys we have at QB. I'd wait til round 4 to even consider a QB unless my scouts tell me that there's a guy there in round 3 who has tremendous upside. 

I don’t love the top end of our chart. I like Fitz and think short term he’s a great option. I don’t see the long term QB for us. But I love our depth. 
 

Drafting a QB anywhere before the 6th/7th/UDFA is a waste with what we have unless Allen is getting PUPed. Later pick can replace Montez 

[Darrell Green Fan]

6 hours ago, Panninho said:

A bit disappointed we didn't get a QB. Moreso because Chicago got Fields and they originally picked behind us. The price they paid is also very reasonable.

I generally trust the front office on that but for now I am a bit disappointed. Would have been ecstatic if we pulled of that trade.

 

Also would have liked Darrisaw over Jamin Davis. But that is mostly due to position. I am not going to complain about individual players on draft night, never really know who will pan out and who won't. And Jamin Davis is for sure brings a lot of athletic potential to an already stacked defense.

 

Yeah Fields was my guy and I was excited to see him get past Denver.  Not sure of the mid round costs, and not happy that the Giants got a future #1, but I would have liked us to make that deal as well.

 

With that said I'm surprised some posters need to be talked into loving Davis.  This is exactly what this defense needed desperately, a 3 down playmaker with speed who can cover, is a tackling machine and can play all 3 LB positions. They needed an impact LB and I just had concerns about JOK having a position in the NFL, tweeners do bust.  Davis has a much lower chance at busting and every bit the upside. Love that pick. 

[Skinsinparadise]

[mhd24]

Moerig would be a dream, but he's not falling to 51.

 

Do we take Terrace Marshall if he slips to 51?  The medical issues are probably why he'd be around.

 

I wonder if Cosmi slips to 51.

[RWJ]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Whatever floats RRs boat.  They can address the QB position next year.  I think they draft a QB this year and a lot of people are going to whine when they do but hey people like me whined a bit when we drafted Jamin over JOK.  JOK is still there but expect him to be gone way before #51.  it is what it is and we have to accept the picks and trust RR and Co..

[Going Commando]

41 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I've seen you make that point before.  I get the spirit of the point and I agree with it but i think there is a key part missing from that statement.

 

I think the biggest single determinant in a QBs success or failure is his relationship with his coach.  Work ethic is part of that, but mainly it's about trust, and that can be independent of work ethic.  A QB has to get his coach to trust him, and that is a complex dynamic.  If a coach will bang the table for his QB and trust him with the keys to his team, then that QB will probably work out.  That team will be all in on developing them and propping them up until they get comfortable and good enough to prop you up.

 

We've had talented players come through here but one of the consistent refrains of failure we've faced is the breakdown of the QB--Coach relationship and the loss of trust.  Pretty much been a constant for decades.  Something about this franchise just doesn't make for long term QB relationships.  A fundamental instability and problems with leadership.  Even a HoFer like Jurgensen was uncertain if his coach had his back.

 

Anyway, with regard to Davis Mills, it speaks well for him that David Shaw loved him so much and banged the table so hard for him.  I do think that he demonstrates charismatic leadership qualities.  And I also think that his inconsistency as a player is very naturally explained by his lack of reps.  Even Trevor Lawrence needed a lot of reps to master the game at the CFB level.  Mills can make huge strides from where he is today, but he needs time and reps.

[Ball Security]

SI has us taking Elijah Molden at 51.  There are some enticing guys after that like Cosmi and the Canadian guard.

[RWJ]

2 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

Moerig would be a dream, but he's not falling to 51.

 

Do we take Terrace Marshall if he slips to 51?  The medical issues are probably why he'd be around.

 

I wonder if Cosmi slips to 51.

Radunz, Eich, Cosmi at #51 would be cool with me.  The FS at #51 would be a super get.  I think we draft a starter whoever it is in the 2nd round. 

[Skinsinparadise]

As I've mentioned I like what I've seen from Tyson Campbell.  My top desire in a corner is sticky coverage which from the games i watched he's good at that.  He stays on top of his receivers, mirrors well, good recovery speed.  Good and feisty against the run.  Downside is he gets beat on contested catches and isn't a play maker.  Seems a beat behind on some plays.

 

21 years old. 6 "1. 4.36 speed.  Good length.  In a way, he's sort of like the Jamin Davis of the CBs, he's a bit raw but has a ton of upside IMO. 

 

 

 

[RWJ]

2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I think the biggest single determinant in a QBs success or failure is his relationship with his coach.  Work ethic is part of that, but mainly it's about trust, and that can be independent of work ethic.  A QB has to get his coach to trust him, and that is a complex dynamic.  If a coach will bang the table for his QB and trust him with the keys to his team, then that QB will probably work out.  That team will be all in on developing them and propping them up until they get comfortable and good enough to prop you up.

 

We've had talented players come through here but one of the consistent refrains of failure we've faced is the breakdown of the QB--Coach relationship and the loss of trust.  Pretty much been a constant for decades.  Something about this franchise just doesn't make for long term QB relationships.  A fundamental instability and problems with leadership.  Even a HoFer like Jurgensen was uncertain if his coach had his back.

 

Anyway, with regard to Davis Mills, it speaks well for him that David Shaw loved him so much and banged the table so hard for him.  I do think that he demonstrates charismatic leadership qualities.  And I also think that his inconsistency as a player is very naturally explained by his lack of reps.  Even Trevor Lawrence needed a lot of reps to master the game at the CFB level.  Mills can make huge strides from where he is today, but he needs time and reps.

Terry Allen had ACL surgeries on both knees.  It's not common to come back and play and have a successful career but Mills is the best of the bunch to me head and shoulders of the remaining QBs.  Again, if we take him in the 2nd so be it.  I'd rather go QB in the 3rd/4th and really Mond would be my only choice in those rounds.  Other than that, give me a QB in the 7th or UDFA.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

 

 

Anyway, with regard to Davis Mills, it speaks well for him that David Shaw loved him so much and banged the table so hard for him.  I do think that he demonstrates charismatic leadership qualities.  And I also think that his inconsistency as a player is very naturally explained by his lack of reps.  Even Trevor Lawrence needed a lot of reps to master the game at the CFB level.  Mills can make huge strides from where he is today, but he needs time and reps.

 

I guess we will agree to disagree.  Feels similar in tone to our disagreement we had weeks back when we debated Jamin Davis versus Zaven Collins.  i liked Jamin more than you did (albeit you liked him, too) and I liked Zaven less than you did (but I liked him too)

 

I am ok with David Mills.  I don't dislike him.  I like him.  He's the only 2nd tier QB in this draft if they took that I wouldn't hate.   Our disagreement is really Trask.  I don't think much of a Trask's potential as an NFL starter.  I do see potential for Mills to be a starter.  I think you are over the top as for how high you think Mills' potential is.  But that's just my opinion.  But just like the Zaven debate I don't want to continue to debate this because it comes off like I dislike the player.  I don't dislike Mills.  I am just not as enamored with his potential as you seem to be.  

[Est.1974]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Moehrig, Molden, Campbell, man we should be able to add a quality DB....if we are aggressive.
 

Unless Moehrig is locked in by another team picking very early tonight, I’ll be disappointed if he’s our top rated safety and he goes a handful of spots before us. 
 

I can also see us picking Trask early day 3 at this rate.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Moehrig, Molden, Campbell, man we should be able to add a quality DB....if we are aggressive.
 

Unless Moehrig is locked in by another team picking very early tonight, I’ll be disappointed if he’s our top rated safety and he goes a handful of spots before us. 
 

I can also see us picking Trask early day 3 at this rate.

 

There's one pick in this draft that I would be very concerned with. One. There's more I'd be very meh on. But there's one that makes me go: "what the hell are we watching?"

 

And that's Trask.

 

I don't see it. Not one bit. People said Jones was a statue and I'm convinced they watched film of Trask and transposed scouting reports. Lacks accuracy in big moments, below average NFL arm talent, leads his receivers into big hits, virtually stationary. I see no upside.

 

I know it sounds bias, but I can't understand why people think he's better than Buechele even, who despite my Buechs like... I view as a 6th or 7th rounder. 

[Ball Security]

I do like the Davis pick.

 

My big winners from last night were Minn, Chi, NYG, and Det.

Biggest head scratcher is GB.

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

There's one pick in this draft that I would be very concerned with. One. There's more I'd be very meh on. But there's one that makes me go: "what the hell are we watching?"

 

And that's Trask.

 

I don't see it. Not one bit. People said Jones was a statue and I'm convinced they watched film of Trask and transposed scouting reports. Lacks accuracy in big moments, below average NFL arm talent, leads his receivers into big hits, virtually stationary. I see no upside.

 

I know it sounds bias, but I can't understand why people think he's better than Buechele even, who despite my Buechs like... I view as a 6th or 7th rounder. 

I agree but people view him as better because he played in the SEC and put up the #s he did.  KDawg, I don'[t think he succeeds either but who knows.  I also don't think we draft him.  

2 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

I do like the Davis pick.

 

My big winners from last night were Minn, Chi, NYG, and Det.

Biggest head scratcher is GB.

Biggest head scratcher to me was LV with Leatherwood at #17.

[Est.1974]

No idea how accurate this list is, in terms of prospects we met with :

• Jabril Cox, Linebacker, LSU (VIR)
• Brevin Jordan, Tight End, Miami (VIR)
• Rondale Moore, Wide Receiver, Purdue (VIR)
• Asante Samuel Jr., Cornerback, Florida State (VIR)
• Ihmir Smith-Marsette, Wide Receiver, Iowa (VIR)
• Darius Stills, Defensive Tackle, West Virginia (VIR)
• Mike Strachan, Wide Receiver, Charleston (VIR)
• Tommy Tremble, Tight End, Notre Dame (VIR)
• Trill Williams, Cornerback, Syracuse (VIR)

[Anselmheifer]

21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As I've mentioned I like what I've seen from Tyson Campbell.  My top desire in a corner is sticky coverage which from the games i watched he's good at that.  He stays on top of his receivers, mirrors well, good recovery speed.  Good and feisty against the run.  Downside is he gets beat on contested catches and isn't a play maker.  Seems a beat behind on some plays.

 

21 years old. 6 "1. 4.36 speed.  Good length.  In a way, he's sort of like the Jamin Davis of the CBs, he's a bit raw but has a ton of upside IMO. 

 

 

 

 

I'd love this pick. Or Moehrig. I still think we need to do more to make our coverage elite to take full advantage of the DL. 

[Chump Bailey]

25 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Biggest head scratcher to me was LV with Leatherwood at #17.

 

Leatherwood and Payton Turner were mine. Like both but felt like reaches to me more so Turner though.

[RWJ]

Just now, Chump Bailey said:

 

Leatherwood and Payton Turner were mine. Like both but felt like reaches to me more so Turner though.

Agree with both but I had Leatherwood as a bit more of a reach.  Now, the fun begins.  How good is our scouting dept. and GMs?  Who does RR decide to draft from this point on?

[kingdaddy]

I'm thinking, if there are any very good corners left in the 2nd round that we need to take one. Support our defensive line with some aggressive corners who will man up on the WR's in our division. Keep building the defense!!!

[IrepDC]

1 minute ago, kingdaddy said:

I'm thinking, if there are any very good corners left in the 2nd round that we need to take one. Support our defensive line with some aggressive corners who will man up on the WR's in our division. Keep building the defense!!!

Not just the WRs in our division, but as we start getting deeper into the playoffs towards the chip, those QBs will find and pick on our weakest DB... (Darby last year)... so the next phase of this build will need a bump in the secondary. This brings back how Jackson was a huge signing. We are a few key pieces away on that side. A FS or another cover corner in the next 3 picks would be great.

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 hours ago, Panninho said:

A bit disappointed we didn't get a QB. Moreso because Chicago got Fields and they originally picked behind us. The price they paid is also very reasonable.

1. There is NO WAY the Giants give us the same deal they gave Chicago.  It's 2 1's + a 3 and 4 to move up from 20 for a non-division rival.  There's no way NYG are moving back to 19 for that for us.  That trade is fairly even, if you're trading in the division, either it's because "why not?" which Dallas and the Eagles did, or you HAVE to win the trade by a big margin.

 

2. I don't love Fields, and it's also pretty clear RR and company didn't love Fields.  They probably liked him, but didn't love him.  If they loved him, they would have gone to 8 or 9 to get him.  The cost would probably have been slightly more than what Chicago gave up.  

 

It's also clear they didn't like Mac Jones a ton, because they could have moved up to 13 to get him.  And didn't.  

 

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

Landon Collins moving to LB would be as a hybrid.

This is not directly related to your post, but all discussion of Landon Collins to anywhere has the caveat that we don't know if he'll ever be what he was physically again.  Achilles injuries are tough to come back from, and history shows they have a tendency to pop again.  

 

I look at Landon Collins as essentially a non-factor in any decision the team has to make.  Because Bruce is dumb, they have no real benefit of cutting him this year.  But they need to plan without him in mind.  He has made it clear he doesn't want to move positions in any way, and we don't know when he'll be healthy, and if he will be able to run.  

 

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

I’d personally go up and get him.

I would too.  I wonder what our 2nd + one of the 3rds would land us.  I'd prefer not to trade next year's picks, but they have 2 3rds this year, and a 2nd and 3rd to find a good FS prospect, to me, that's worth it.  It would be more ideal if it didn't take the 3rd, and you could use the 4th.  But I'd definitely do the later 3rd without blinking.  

 

1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I think I’m offering a 2022 third rounder plus #51 to get well into the top 40

My preference is always to contain trades to the current draft.  It's a very contrarian way of looking at trades at the moment.  But I'd prefer to take the entire price of the trade in one draft, get it over with, and move on, rather than spreading the cost over multiple drafts, so if something bad happens, you're paying for that digression over multiple years.  

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I read this tweet, and immediately thought of: