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2021 NFL Draft Day Thread


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3 hours ago, RWJ said:

Good point, Higskin.  When is the trade deadline since you mentioned it.  We very well could be stuck though if Scherff doesn't want to negotiate a LTD with another team though.  

 

 

It was Nov 3rd last year and suspect it's somewhere around that this year.

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8 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

It was Nov 3rd last year and suspect it's somewhere around that this year.

Thanks HigSkin.  Maybe we can get something done.  Guess we wait and see.  My guess at this time is we eat $18 mill on one good year of right OG play.  He will play hard for his next contract so I see him pushing through injury to make it 16 games.  Just a guess on my part.  As always, thanks for your post on this board.  Always appreciate you and SIP as well as others.  God Bless.  

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Even though the draft trajectory didn’t always follow the pattern that I would have expected, or probably have chosen in some instances (for that matter when does it ever), I come away extremely pleased with this draft. In fact, aside from QB of the future and RB depth, I think the team managed to improve the depth, talent, athleticism and character of virtually every position unit. That’s virtually impossible to accomplish in any given draft. 
 

They wanted to dramatically upgrade their worst performing unit (LB corps ) with a dynamic playmaker, and they did so with a guy who is an elite athlete, with unlimited upside, who is also a high character leader. How easy is it to find that combo of traits? 
 

They wanted to upgrade and deepen the OL, with the hopes of landing an LT of the future. They managed to somehow do that at #51, and again found a physical specimen who has tons of room to grow as he learns behind vets, and who has a chance to bring a maulers identity to the unit. 
 

They wanted to keep adding speed and play making big play threats to the offense, and despite the Moores being long gone, found a potentially great one still around in round 3 in Brown. They landed Terry and Gibson there the 2 previous years, and I think they have a chance of having nailed another good one with Brown. 
 

They improved their CB depth, size and athleticism with a guy they loved from the SR Bowl. Again, a theme of a guy with traits, size and athleticism you can’t teach, who they think they can mold into something special, who doesn’t have to contribute immediately.
 

They followed it by getting exactly what they need at TE; a potentially elite blocker who can both play in-line, while also having the versatility to play H-back. He can develop as a pass catcher and RedZone threat, allow us to disguise what we are doing on offense, and take a huge blocking burden away from Logan Thomas. Again, high character leader type, who they loved from the Senior Bowl. 

And while we can argue that we liked a different safety over Forrest at his pick, it’s not like we missed out on those guys and settled for Forrest. They were still on the board and they chose Forrest over the other candidates. I trust the group that chose Kam Curl last year amidst a bunch of criticism, to know which of these safeties is the best fit here (and again they found a high character leader with athletic traits to fill the spot). 

 

This pattern continues throughout the remaining rounds of the draft as they navigated between targeting more high character, traits guys with upside, and filling needs at spots like LS and DE depth. I think the roster building aspect of it was pretty masterful, even if it meant at times they didn’t take whoever the draft community viewed as best value at each pick. 

 

I come away from this draft thinking it is a game changer that continues our dramatic culture change, while adding a bunch of high upside upgrades and depth to virtually every position group. 

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As to the theme of intangibles.  Funny enough just checked my draft magazine to read up on Bradley-King.  They rate a zillion players and only highlight 5 traits as for players who are tops in said trait.  Of course Bradley-King is their top guy in intangibles.  No doubt that was a key theme for Rivera. 

draftmag.jpeg

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8 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

We had a nice draft but perhaps not the best draft that we could have.  We did some reaching.  Did it to bring in culture guys I guess.  But things like reaching for Bates when he feels like one of the worst picks of the 4th and trading a future pick to draft a long snapper one pick before Trey Smith when we've currently got Scherff playing on the tag are just not good moves.  Not going to lie, it also worries me that Jamar Johnson and Shawn Davis went directly after Forrest, that's a juxtaposition that could end up being unfavorable.

 

They are the kind of missed opportunities that keep a team from making that leap from good to great when you pile up a lot of them.  I think you judge the quality of your draft against the classes your peers made and it feels like at least half the league got more value from their picks than we did.  Cosmi and Dyami Brown were the only value picks we made.  But I think we got at least a four player class, which is quite good at the end of the day.

Although I don’t disagree with your points, we obviously emphasized Character and Injury questions more than we have in the past.  
 

Jamar Johnson and Shawn Wade had character concerns according to the draft guys.  Hadn’t heard about JJ’s until after he was finally picked. I think Kiper mentioned it as why he slipped, I don’t know what the concerns were. He was one of my fav’s in terms of tape and production. Trey Smith had huge injury concerns supposedly. 

 

I’ll give our guys the benefit of the doubt for now. Time will certainly tell on all this stuff. 

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58 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As to the theme of intangibles.  Funny enough just checked my draft magazine to read up on Bradley-King.  They rate a zillion players and only highlight 5 traits as for players who are tops in said trait.  Of course Bradley-King is their top guy in intangibles.  No doubt that was a key theme for Rivera. 

draftmag.jpeg


I think two things from the rebuild are going to have a bigger than expected cumulative effect. Speed, and character.

 

Fielding an entire defense of long, fast athletes has an additive effect more than the sum of the added parts. Those long broken plays disappear. It's hard to find someone to pick on. Windows get smaller. Everything has to happen faster. Errors get magnified. Ditto having speed everywhere on offense. I love that we are finally building a team with speed. 

 

I think we are going to see the same thing with character. Better year to year improvement. Better end of game stamina. Better preparation. Better run fits. Better OL protections. Less coverage lapses. Better health. 

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Posted (edited)

In the moments after they were picked this weekend, many of the Washington Football Team’s draft choices talked about a connection they had made with Washington’s coaches in the weeks before that was closer than with the staffs of other teams. Most significant, they said, was the bond they had made in chats with the team’s head coach, Ron Rivera.

 

“Just [a] great conversation about football, life and that aspect,” said tackle Samuel Cosmi, a second-round pick.

“We were able to build that chemistry compared with other teams,” said cornerback Benjamin St-Juste, a third-round choice.

Four of the 10 players Washington picked in this NFL draft said they had one-on-one virtual interviews with Rivera during the pre-draft process. While head coaches often meet with potential first-round players — such as Washington’s top pick, Jamin Davis — they don’t often do so with players expected to go after that. Cosmi, St-Juste and fourth-round tight end John Bates said Rivera was the only head coach they spoke to one-on-one. Others might have joined a group interview, but Rivera was the only one to talk to them by himself.

 

“That was kind of a unique thing,” Bates said.

Told this, Rivera seemed surprised as he drove home after the draft ended Saturday night. He hadn’t considered that he might be one of the league’s few head coaches to request interviews with non-first-round players. He always has believed in these meetings, seeing them as a way to understand the players around whom he wants to build his team. Why wouldn’t everyone?

 

So he scheduled as many conversations as he could in his second year with Washington, just as he did as the Carolina Panthers’ coach, focusing mostly on prospects from the scouting department’s top 100 who might be available around each of the team’s first four selections. In the past, before the coronavirus pandemic, the interviews were in-person, either during the player’s visit to the team facility or informally at the scouting combine in Indianapolis. This year, with the combine canceled and facility visits banned, he did the meetings virtually, always from his office, as a reminder to the player that the call was a business interview.

 

till, the conversations were rarely about football. Rivera leaves X’s and O’s to his assistants, who often meet with prospective picks several times in March and April. He wants to know what motivates the players, what they care about and how they might fit the culture of his franchise.

“I want to give them an opportunity to let their guard down and show you who they really are,” Rivera said. “If you give a player the opportunity, they will tell you who they are.”

 

In these interviews, he has come to love players such as Luke Kuechly and Shaq Thompson, who became top linebackers for him with Carolina. It’s how he became enamored with Davis this year, admiring his intelligence and backstory of growing up as a military child, and he insisted the team keep the 19th pick to take Davis instead of trading to another spot.

 

These interviews also are where other players fall off his list, such as the philosophy major whose answers made Rivera wonder how much he cared about the game.

“How important is football to you?” Rivera asked.

“It’s up there,” the player replied.

Rivera told the front office to pick someone else that year.

 

Many of those who have been around Rivera say he likes to build relationships. “He treats people like people,” a Washington assistant said last year while speaking privately about the coach. Several times during news conferences last fall, he lamented the pandemic restrictions that kept him from face-to-face meetings with the reporters who cover the team. He likes personal conversations. He is especially happy when he learns a player is from a military family or is the son of a teacher or a coach, believing they have a different understanding of learning and responsibility than many others. But mostly it’s a bond he is seeking, a way to connect.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/05/02/ron-rivera-draft-picks-bonds/

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Posted (edited)

What will become of this wonderful thread now that the draft is over?

 

Will it exist like an old  dream only in our ever fading memories or will it go on in the land of the living refreshed regularly with the thoughts of the day?

 

I suspect a ghost town is in it's future... nothing but tumbleweeds and dust.

 

Is our future any different?

 

All the more reason to appreciate every moment while it exists.

 

"Good night sweet prince."

 

 

Edited by TrancesWithWolves
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One of the hardest things to evaluate is character and fit, especially for us on the sidelines. I have no idea how these picks will turn out but I can say I respect the hell out of our process. Our coach and team president personally interviewed and vetted each pick from rounds 1-4. He picked what was in his eyes the perfect overlap of character, physical traits, potential, and production for almost all of our needs while also doing so with the rest of his coaches on the same page. Very few teams do this in the NFL. 
 

This is how we got Kam Curl last year. A kid who studied his ass off, trusted the system and reaped the rewards. Given who Jamin Davis is and what his traits give him the capability to do, I don’t see why he can’t have a similar season. 
 

Personally, I can’t wait to see the camp battle for starting LT. Cosmi has such a great feel for angles and positioning on first and second level blocks in the run game. His passing sets are dancing bearish, but Matsko has historically shown to do more with less. This kid is still filled with untapped potential and that can be said for nearly everyone of our picks. 
 

I know people don’t get the BSJ pick, but it is straight up rare for a guy to have the elite length that he has paired with such great short area quickness. His long speed is decent, but that is easy to make up for with the aforementioned traits and when you think about the type of guy you’ll match him up against. I want to see how this kid handles Kenny Golladay type guys a year or two from now. He has the work ethic and confidence to be special, as long his body can hold up and he’s given the time to learn. 
 

Dyami Brown is great value and another bonafide deep threat with plus blocking ability and great production and intangibles. Hopefully he can give Curtis the space to be more of a slot once he develops, but either way it’s obvious the plan is to line up our big three interchangeably and take advantage of match ups and manufacture misalignments on the defense. 

John Bates is the second best blocking tight end in the draft and why he might stylistically be similar to Jeremy Sprinkles his hands are worlds better and his blocks are much more impressive. Also, this kid is still growing and has way more upside that Coach Hoener can tap into. I’m more positive about what this kid can do than others were about Thaddeus Miss last year who was undersized and did not fit at all in camp last year. 
 

I think to the outside world we reached on some guys, just like some say we reached on Gibson last year. However, that perception is based on little to no valuation of fit and deep character analysis that can be done by someone with the experience and exceptional emotional intelligence that Ron has. Raw athletic analysis is one thing, analysis based on projection, character, and cultural fit is something entirely different. 

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3 hours ago, Stormy said:

Even though the draft trajectory didn’t always follow the pattern that I would have expected, or probably have chosen in some instances (for that matter when does it ever), I come away extremely pleased with this draft. In fact, aside from QB of the future and RB depth, I think the team managed to improve the depth, talent, athleticism and character of virtually every position unit. That’s virtually impossible to accomplish in any given draft. 
 

They wanted to dramatically upgrade their worst performing unit (LB corps ) with a dynamic playmaker, and they did so with a guy who is an elite athlete, with unlimited upside, who is also a high character leader. How easy is it to find that combo of traits? 
 

They wanted to upgrade and deepen the OL, with the hopes of landing an LT of the future. They managed to somehow do that at #51, and again found a physical specimen who has tons of room to grow as he learns behind vets, and who has a chance to bring a maulers identity to the unit. 
 

They wanted to keep adding speed and play making big play threats to the offense, and despite the Moores being long gone, found a potentially great one still around in round 3 in Brown. They landed Terry and Gibson there the 2 previous years, and I think they have a chance of having nailed another good one with Brown. 
 

They improved their CB depth, size and athleticism with a guy they loved from the SR Bowl. Again, a theme of a guy with traits, size and athleticism you can’t teach, who they think they can mold into something special, who doesn’t have to contribute immediately.
 

They followed it by getting exactly what they need at TE; a potentially elite blocker who can both play in-line, while also having the versatility to play H-back. He can develop as a pass catcher and RedZone threat, allow us to disguise what we are doing on offense, and take a huge blocking burden away from Logan Thomas. Again, high character leader type, who they loved from the Senior Bowl. 

And while we can argue that we liked a different safety over Forrest at his pick, it’s not like we missed out on those guys and settled for Forrest. They were still on the board and they chose Forrest over the other candidates. I trust the group that chose Kam Curl last year amidst a bunch of criticism, to know which of these safeties is the best fit here (and again they found a high character leader with athletic traits to fill the spot). 

 

This pattern continues throughout the remaining rounds of the draft as they navigated between targeting more high character, traits guys with upside, and filling needs at spots like LS and DE depth. I think the roster building aspect of it was pretty masterful, even if it meant at times they didn’t take whoever the draft community viewed as best value at each pick. 

 

I come away from this draft thinking it is a game changer that continues our dramatic culture change, while adding a bunch of high upside upgrades and depth to virtually every position group. 

Definitely agree with most of this.  I love the the way the FO has a strategy from FA through the draft and sticks too it. Build a core of team guys that you trust, and then round out the roster with discount FA's that fit your culture and will at least be competitive.  Then just draft BPA in every round you can, focusing on potential, versatility, and character.   If the culture and coaching are good it should bring out the best in players who might have more room to grow and you will get a ton of value in the draft by anticipating it. 

 

This slate of picks really feels special and I hope it is the future core of a championship team.  Even the 7th round picks have impressive potential and thats what  gets me excited about the class.  There are so many years we havent even had all the picks and they still found good guys late.  I knew they needed a year with a bunch of extra picks to really bring in a wave of talent that would take us to another level.  This might be it. 

 

I am really high on Toney in particular right now but I am sure i will get more crushes later.   I think he could be the starting 5th rusher/OLB specialist at the half way  point and will end up being a huge steal. 

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1 hour ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

Although I don’t disagree with your points, we obviously emphasized Character and Injury questions more than we have in the past.  
 

Jamar Johnson and Shawn Wade had character concerns according to the draft guys.  Hadn’t heard about JJ’s until after he was finally picked. I think Kiper mentioned it as why he slipped, I don’t know what the concerns were. He was one of my fav’s in terms of tape and production. Trey Smith had huge injury concerns supposedly. 

 

I’ll give our guys the benefit of the doubt for now. Time will certainly tell on all this stuff. 

 

I really liked JJ but I'm not salty about passing on him for Forrest.  More just worried that JJ will end up being the better player, but Forrest is an elite athlete.  That gives him a considerable ceiling.

 

I do think drafting Cheeseman over Trey Smith was a pretty obvious and avoidable mistake.  Spending a pick on a LS is such a low upside proposition that I don't see how you can recoup value from it.  Smith by all accounts is an incredible kid too, so this is not a character issue.  It's purely a health concern.  But it's comp territory in the sixth round.  This is where you take guys with health risks.  Smith is so talented that there is a real chance he comes into your camp and busts heads and wins a starting job. That upside easily trumps the value of picking even a successful long snapper.

 

The amount of reaching we did wasn't ideal, but it doesn't doom a class because you can still make a volume of good picks by doing it.  I just think we might have to get more value from our drafts in the future to make the jump from good to dominant.

 

The only thing that really worries me about the class, beyond the usual pitfalls of health and adjustment, is the QB issue.  It felt like a good year/fit to take one of these day two QBs this year.  We have a starter and back up, so we're not desperate and in need of one of the first rounders .  But our presumptive starter is 38.  We could have used one of these rookies in the pipeline to start the development process.  The longer we wait to get a kid in here and learning, the more of the defense's window we will lose.  We don't want to put ourselves in a situation where we absolutely need a vet stud QB to pick us and come in and save us.

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Posted (edited)

@Skinsinparadise Thanks for sharing that. A one on one interview with the head coach is the right way to go. These 21 year old kids are going to be incredibly nervous if they're speaking to a big group of executives and coaches. They're going to withhold valuable information and have a wall up if they aren't comfortable, you aren't going to get a feel for who they really are like you would having a one on one conversation. 

 

I'm starting to like the Benjamin St. Juste pick more and more after listening to him. He's a very intelligent guy, and the best CBs to me always seem like smart guys for the most part. I think intelligence is what a lot of people forget when they make the easy comparison to Richard Sherman if you're a 6'3 CB, Sherman is incredibly smart.  

Edited by Burgundy Yoda
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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

The only thing that really worries me about the class, beyond the usual pitfalls of health and adjustment, is the QB issue.  It felt like a good year/fit to take one of these day two QBs this year.  We have a starter and back up, so we're not desperate and in need of one of the first rounders .  But our presumptive starter is 38.  We could have used one of these rookies in the pipeline to start the development process.  The longer we wait to get a kid in here and learning, the more of the defense's window we will lose.  We don't want to put ourselves in a situation where we absolutely need a vet stud QB to pick us and come in and save us.

 

We've talked about football to stock analogies in the draft thread.  My take on picking stocks is partly about hearing again and again and again from different sources that such and such stock is strong because X-Y-Z.  For example Apple's Iphone sales are jumping because of 5G and they are just getting stronger and stronger. If it see it over and over again it starts resonating with me.  Usually (granted not always) if a narrative is repeated on from multiple fronts have some legs to it.

 

Bringing this to the Qb.  I whined quite a bit early this year about the QB situation.  But I changed my take on it some because I kept getting recurring narratives from different beat guys I trust which laid out a specific plan which made sense to me. 

 

Some (not you) think Rivera is some old school dolt who doesn't understand the value of a Qb and is naive about it and is fooling himself that he can without one.  The people who cover the team say (and Rivera alluded to it himself) that he gets it and gets it big time. 

 

But they were willing to pay a price for a QB but had limits to how much they'd give up because they weren't convinced that the roster was there for said Qb to excel.  But next year they'd be willing to be more aggressive because their roster would be stronger.   Also they want to chase hard a QB they love not one they just like. 

 

They supposedly really like Ryan Fitzpatrick a lot.  He was their main target after they missed out on Stafford.  I like Fitz a lot, too.  He's a different QB late in his career.  I think we will have above average QB play from him.  And also he's clutch.  I've seen him play a lot over the years being from South Florida including multiple times live.  I think they think they can win with him.  And I get the impression listening to Fitz's interviews he will play as long as they need him to if he's a starter.

 

Keim alluded to they liked Fields but didn't love him to the extent they'd give up the store for him.  They were intrigued by Mills and Trask but there were limits to it.  I think they saw them as fliers.  they were cool with them if they can get them at a bargain as for where they'd fall in the draft but weren't going to draft them higher than where they were on their board.

 

Seems like the plan for them is to be super aggressive at the QB spot next year and the leaning is to go after a veteran versus a rookie.   And they are willing to give up much more than they were next year than this year. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/05/02/washington-football-team-draft-quarterback/

Rivera and Mayhew reiterated their belief that Fitzpatrick will lead an improved offense, and they emphasized their confidence in the quarterbacks room as a whole. It’s possible that Heinicke or Allen develops into a future starter. The former re-signed on a two-year deal, and the latter, who made four starts before a season-ending ankle injury, is back on a one-year contract. But Washington has stressed patience, saying it plans to build around the position first, then find its guy.\

“I went through it the other way [during] my first stint as a head coach in Carolina,” Rivera said. “We drafted the guy of the future for us in the first round. He was, lo and behold, the immediate future. … At that point, we had not put all the other pieces around Cam Newton. … So I’ve always thought if you can do it the other way where you put all the other pieces around and then go out and get your quarterback, that might be a pretty good situation, too.”

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As to the theme of intangibles.  Funny enough just checked my draft magazine to read up on Bradley-King.  They rate a zillion players and only highlight 5 traits as for players who are tops in said trait.  Of course Bradley-King is their top guy in intangibles.  No doubt that was a key theme for Rivera. 

draftmag.jpeg

That's 6 traits.  But otherwise, your point is good.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I really liked JJ but I'm not salty about passing on him for Forrest.  More just worried that JJ will end up being the better player, but Forrest is an elite athlete.  That gives him a considerable ceiling.

 

I do think drafting Cheeseman over Trey Smith was a pretty obvious and avoidable mistake.  Spending a pick on a LS is such a low upside proposition that I don't see how you can recoup value from it.  Smith by all accounts is an incredible kid too, so this is not a character issue.  It's purely a health concern.  But it's comp territory in the sixth round.  This is where you take guys with health risks.  Smith is so talented that there is a real chance he comes into your camp and busts heads and wins a starting job. That upside easily trumps the value of picking even a successful long snapper.

 

The amount of reaching we did wasn't ideal, but it doesn't doom a class because you can still make a volume of good picks by doing it.  I just think we might have to get more value from our drafts in the future to make the jump from good to dominant.

 

The only thing that really worries me about the class, beyond the usual pitfalls of health and adjustment, is the QB issue.  It felt like a good year/fit to take one of these day two QBs this year.  We have a starter and back up, so we're not desperate and in need of one of the first rounders .  But our presumptive starter is 38.  We could have used one of these rookies in the pipeline to start the development process.  The longer we wait to get a kid in here and learning, the more of the defense's window we will lose.  We don't want to put ourselves in a situation where we absolutely need a vet stud QB to pick us and come in and save us.

All legitimate concerns. I think we could have had Fields/Jones if we wanted them. We chose to not do it. I think Ron really likes Fitz and wasn’t sold Fields/Jones was the answer. This also brings up the point Ive been thinking, that is pretty obvious after this weekend.


We are looking at analytics in a big big way and it is informing a lot of our decisions. I happen to view analytics as just another data point, on your way to a decision. Right wrong or indifferent, we are using them.
 

1. The Data that Most teams that trade up for a QB miss.

2. The data that Qb’s picked after round one do not amount to much. 

3. 8 of 10 of our picks had super high RAS scores and overall were Uber athletes. 

Also happened that they also were highly rated by pff. 
 

Agreed the Long Snapper was really tough to justify, however I will say that the Panthers jumped us two picks before Cheeseman and snatched Fletcher from Alabama the number 1 guy. We just probably felt we needed to grab the guy we had next on the list at a position we felt we had to have. It’s slept on as not important, but it is if you don’t have one and don’t like the FA options. Not trying to justify the choices because we’ve made our bed. I’d guess Ron is willing to acknowledge & accept these criticisms/concerns. 

 

He seemed super at peace, happy, and sure of himself all weekend. Like the kid who did all the studying and homework and was ready to Ace the exam. 
 



 

 

Edited by COWBOY-KILLA-
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I think we can all agree with CapsSkins sentiment for the most part, but he didn't get it quite right...  

 

The single biggest take-away I have from the weekend and Ron's follow-up pressers (Day-3, I think) is this... He quite clearly states character as his #1 trait. CHARACTER!

 

Of all the things draft geeks like to measure, weigh and tabulate, this is the one thing that doesn't show up on any stat-sheet or high-light reel anywhere.  And it's Ron's #1. (#2 was commitment to the game & #3 was the football player, I think)

 

I couldn't help grinning a little thinking about SIP and all you others who have done countless, long hours of hard work (god bless 'em) stacking 40 times, weights, heights, hands, feets, tackles, sacks, bench-reps, long-jumps, catches, blocks and INT's, yards doing this, yards doing that, etc, etc... and NONE OF IT COMES CLOSE to how they began the build their board.  Hard to swallow??

 

Not gloating at all.  I have enjoyed all the back and forth just like the rest of you and thank you!  But this should be noted for the future and dragged into the light next year.

 

Carry on..

 

 

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5 hours ago, FuriousD said:

I think we can all agree with CapsSkins sentiment for the most part, but he didn't get it quite right...  

 

Hard to swallow??

 

 

I'll have you know I eat plenty of fruit.

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5 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I like my women the way Dan Snyder likes his draft picks: My son’s friends from high school.

You win sir.

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