Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[Koolblue13]

If somehow they were able to attach David Carrs head arm and ability to Heinikie and he came in and played like David Carr next year, I'd be the first one to say that I was wrong about Taylor and that I would have been wrong if we traded for the real David Carr, but somehow I don't think it works like that.

[El Mexican]

10 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I'm not saying you have a history of this, because I really don't know - but this is Loser101 talk on this forum.  Where the side that's wrong, turns the tables to where they were just hopeful, and those they argued against are just haters obsessed with being right.  

 

This team has so many holes not even Brady or Montana in their respective primes could sustain it long term.

 

The last three games have been the equivalent of watching a peewee squad against college seniors.

The other guys are always faster, meaner, stronger, execute better and manhandle us like a bunch of potato sacks.

 

This is trully a hopeless team with a good-intentioned but limited coach. Don't even get me started on the FO.

Edited December 29, 2021 by El Mexican

[zCommander]

People there are still two games left and maybe even more... I would say let's just wait and see where the train stops first. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, El Mexican said:

 

This team has so many holes not even Brady or Montana in their respective primes could sustain it long term.

 

The last three games have been the equivalent of watching a peewee squad against a college seniors.

The other guys are always faster, meaner, stronger, excecute better and manhandle us like a bunch of potato sacks.

 

This is trully a hopeless team with a good-intentioned but limited coach. Don't even get me started on the FO.

This is another strawman argument from the Heineke contingent.  The whole <insert HOF QB here> couldn't save this band of gypsies angle.

 

Nobody is saying this is a great team, particularly not in it's current state.  Nobody has said that Brady or Montana would have this team headed to the Super Bowl.  What we are saying is that it's a fact that Heineke is not a franchise QB, no matter who the team is around him.

[Koolblue13]

Just now, zskins said:

People there are still two games left and maybe even more... I would say let's just wait and see where the train stops first. 

I hope it stops at Laurens couch again.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, zskins said:

People there are still two games left and maybe even more... I would say let's just wait and see where the train stops first. 

I expect one more decent outing out of this group.  Rivera's teams have a history of bouncing back after getting molly whopped like they did last week.  I'm not sure how many of those teams were as depleted talent wise as this one though.

 

Makes all the sense in the world though, that we will get a soul-soothing victory that only helps to impede our draft status.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I expect one more decent outing out of this group.  Rivera's teams have a history of bouncing back after getting molly whopped like they did last week.  I'm not sure how many of those teams were as depleted talent wise as this one though.

 

Makes all the sense in the world though, that we will get a soul-soothing victory that only helps to impede our draft status.

Well be competitive this week I think. Allen will play and we'll at least score some points.

 

I think we're going to absolutely demolish the giants to end the season thank god.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Well be competitive this week I think. Allen will play and we'll at least score some points.

 

I think we're going to absolutely demolish the giants to end the season thank god.

 

should be interesting.  I think they show up against the Eagles.  Not that many left on the COVID list so it will be a fair fight for a change.

 

The Giants offense looks atrocious.  Jake Fromm last week put in one of the worst games I've ever seen from a QB.  We know with Daniel Jones they oddly own us.  But no Daniel Jones in 2 weeks. 

 

As for Heinicke, I think we know the answer. 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

18 minutes ago, zskins said:

People there are still two games left and maybe even more... I would say let's just wait and see where the train stops first. 

It stopped weeks ago. 

[DJHJR86]

Taylor is going to be an amazing backup in the NFL for years.  That's his ceiling.  

[88Comrade2000]

22 minutes ago, zskins said:

People there are still two games left and maybe even more... I would say let's just wait and see where the train stops first. 

That maybe more fantasy will end this weekend.

 

Just like last year, making the playoffs really doesn't do this team good.  We're just going to tread water and not really go anywhere.

 

As for QB; backup qbs when put into the starting role usually have a short run before their limitations are exposed.  We are well past that with Taylor.  Taylor's a backup, who can fill in for a short period (3-5) games before he really can't do much,

[RichmondRedskin88]

43 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

this narrative needs to stop.  No one, and I repeat no one is happy Taylor has been exposed.  The best outcome for the team would have been for him to be the outlier and become the long term solution.  
 

Let me ask this, why can’t this’d who were beating others for having concerns just admit you were wrong and move on?  
 

I loved the story.  He is easy to root for.  But his deficiencies are not trivial.  Ds caught up to him with some help from injuries and Covid.  
 

we need to move on.  It sucks but urgent.   

i accepted TH was not the answer weeks ago.  I still wouldn’t be surprised if they pulled him because of the contract additions. Snyder would totally do that. Honestly I could see Ron quitting then again he wants his money so he would probably make Snyder fire him if it came to that.

[Darrell Green Fan]

Those very vocal TH supporters are looking very small today. Again as has been posted many times NOBODY here wanted him to fail, I have only seen one poster say they didn't like him. Most all of us liked him and wanted to succeed.

 

 

But when posters go overboard and come off as if they are smarter than us, well they deserve to be called out on it.  Instead one of them lashes out, simply not a good look. Just admit you were wrong and we can all move on, attacking those who turned out to be right is not the way to go. 

[NewCliche21]

I love that @Koolblue13 says that nobody is happy about it only for other people to want to talk about how they were right and are presenting as happy about it.

 

58 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

Because he is not franchise QB material and has a weak arm. 

 

So, you're happy about being right and want us to move on, is that what you're saying?

 

56 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I would LOVE for him to be the greatest QB ever for us. Would LOVE IT.

 

He isn't. He's a bad QB for us and riding with him has players punching each other out of frustration.

 

If somehow acknowledging that Heinicke sucks ass makes me a bad fan on your fan-o-meter, oh well.

 

I want to win games.

 

Can't do great things with basic people, right?

 

49 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

and @NewCliche21 nobody is "happy" about it. I'm miserable and disappointed, but I'm a reds....Football team fan and I'm use to being miserable this time of year, so I can revel in it, like an elephant in mud on a hot day. Just filthy.

 

Where did I say that acknowledging the reality that Heinicke isn't the answer is being happy about it or being a bad fan?

 

I never thought Heinicke was the answer, though that four-game win streak gave me some pause.  Can't make up for no arm.  I, too, wish that he or ANYONE under center for us would be THE answer.

I just want to win, too.

 

The crap I'm talking about is just echoes of Brunell, Campbell, Grossman, Beck, Griffin, Cousins, Smith (to a much lesser degree), and Fitzpatrick.  The thirst to say, "I TOLD YOU SO!" is always frustrating.

 

And that's JUST the quarterback position.

I used to make threads each year about eating crow, especially about players who I thought sucked and then was proven wrong, which is what I want 100% of the time.  I don't have sour grapes, I don't give a **** about being right, I just want more Lombardis than the Cowboys forever and always.  That's it.

2 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Those very vocal TH supporters are looking very small today. Again as has been posted many times NOBODY here wanted him to fail, I have only seen one poster say they didn't like him. Most all of us liked him and wanted to succeed.

 

 

But when posters go overboard and come off as if they are smarter than us, well they deserve to be called out on it.  Instead one of them lashes out, simply not a good look. Just admit you were wrong and we can all move on, attacking those who turned out to be right is not the way to go. 

 

Okay okay, THIS kind of thinking I understand.  It does get super frustrating when people stand on a soapbox when they're "winning" an argument and then are gone with their tail between their legs when they're on the wrong side.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

31 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

Okay okay, THIS kind of thinking I understand.  It does get super frustrating when people stand on a soapbox when they're "winning" an argument and then are gone with their tail between their legs when they're on the wrong side.

This is all it is.

 

It has little to do with Taylor, and more to do with the guys shouting us all down as haters because we couldn't see his "elite intangibles" that all but make up for his non-NFL caliber arm.  There is no prize for 'being right' that Taylor's not an NFL starter.  Most everyone in the world has always known that, minus the dozen or so folks here that have been hellbent on calling out the "haters" who dare disagree with their analysis on Heineke's future in the league.

Edited December 29, 2021 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Captain Wiggles]

1 hour ago, zskins said:

People there are still two games left and maybe even more... I would say let's just wait and see where the train stops first. 

 

[skinny21]

Taylor isn’t the “answer” or a franchise qb.  

 

I do think it’s fair to point out that when we lament our roster issues this year - our lack of linebackers, Gibson being used improperly (and being banged up), lack of a #2 receiver, our poor DE play, etc - and our injuries - how we lose games w/o Scherff, Ismael’s (and Charles’) play, missing Sweitzer and Cosmi for stretches, losing McKissick and Thomas, etc., we should apply those to an evaluation of Heinicke too.  I’m leaving off coaching issues because I’m keeping an open mind until we get better personnel in place (including qb)… but I can understand why others feel differently and might include that when evaluating TH.

 

With that all said, he beat two pretty bad teams with little help from the run game/defense, but with pretty good weapons - Terry, Logan and McKissick.  He beat a good team with pretty significant help from the run game/defense.  He often struggled to score points without his top red zone threat.  He looked terrible when he faced a ferocious pass rush without a run game or his top outlet (McKissick).  Carter and RSJ looked like capable starters for a stretch with Heinicke behind center.

 

He made a lot of terrible decisions with the ball, his accuracy looked really poor at times, and his arm is very limiting (couldn’t stretch defenses, Terry’s production suffered).  He had games/moments he pressed too hard and games he seemed to try too hard to be a pocket passer (avoiding scrambling).  He sometimes hung guys out to dry.  He benefitted from having a lot of experience/knowledge with Turner’s offense, which means I have my doubts he’ll work out elsewhere (even as a backup) because he won’t know the system and isn’t a good pocket passer.  Particularly if he’s avoiding scrambling in offseason practices.

 

On the flip side, he had times he looked more comfortable in the pocket and his accuracy was on point - ball hitting guys hands with regularity.  He put together some nice drives in crucial situations.  He had games he seemed to play loose and extended plays/drives with his feet.  He went through a stretch where he seemed to struggle to know how to play - run or not, push the ball deep or not, when to take risks, etc. - all things you sort of expect from an inexperienced qb.  The injuries to the oline and key pass catchers (not to mention our kicking problems) had a major impact.

 

Long story short, I don’t think he’s a guy that needs perfection around him to play pretty well, but to be a capable starter he needs at least pretty good pass pro (especially up the middle) as well as pass catchers that can work the middle of the field and produce in the shorter areas.  Against better teams, he also needs pretty serious help from the D and run game.

 

One last note, I can understand the argument that defenses have figured him out - stack the box to stop the run, pressure him, and take away the short stuff.  For me, that argument is still up in the air because this coincided with an injured oline (particularly the middle of the line), a banged up Gibson, and Heinicke missing his two most important weapons/outlets in Thomas and McKissick (especially the latter).  Don’t think any of the above matters in the sense that Heinicke won’t be our starter and pretty good chance he’s not even our #2 next year… of course they could/will matter qb(s) we bring in, so I hope we’re able to improve our supporting cast.

Edited December 29, 2021 by skinny21

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[goskins10]

2 hours ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

i accepted TH was not the answer weeks ago.  I still wouldn’t be surprised if they pulled him because of the contract additions. Snyder would totally do that. Honestly I could see Ron quitting then again he wants his money so he would probably make Snyder fire him if it came to that.

 

I don't think they would do that. The money is nominal all things considered. If I understand Taylor's contract the per game bonus amounts to less than $30,000. Where as if they cut him offseason he is only $500,000 dead money and $2.375M cap savings. So I see this more as an audition for who is the back-up next year.

 

I will post it here, people should not be surprised if at this point Ryan Fitzpatrick is resigned next offseason to either be the mentor to a new young stud of the starter if they can't get who they want. That experiment has not been done yet. He was injured less than 1/2 of 1 game. 

 

I am sure there will be a bunch of - Taylor is better than Ryan but sorry that is just not true. Taylor does some things better than Ryan, scramble being the primary thing. But Ryan can make all the throws. And he has a lot more experience in the NFL. Not sure he gets us that many more wins but 2 more changes everything. 

 

One thing is for sure, this will be a very interesting off-season. 

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

7 hours ago, KDawg said:

Trubisky is not our franchise quarterback… 90% positive of that.

 

But he could be a decent stop gap with years of NFL experience coming out of a year spent with one of the best quarterbacks in the League whom he has a similar (yet not the same) style as. 
 

If you pair Trubisky with a rookie that you intend to have take over down the line you have Plan A and Plan B on your roster. Keep Heinicke as Plan C. He’s under contract for peanuts. 

I mean sure. But is Mitch really all that better than TH or Kyle Allen? He certainly has more physical tools, so there’s that.

 

But he inspires no confidence he is a real upgrade.  Maybe he is.  I dunno.

 

TH as a 3 I’m down with. 

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I mean sure. But is Mitch really all that better than TH or Kyle Allen? He certainly has more physical tools, so there’s that.

 

But he inspires no confidence he is a real upgrade.  Maybe he is.  I dunno.

 

TH as a 3 I’m down with. 

Yes. Yes he is.

[88Comrade2000]

48 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I don't think they would do that. The money is nominal all things considered. If I understand Taylor's contract the per game bonus amounts to less than $30,000. Where as if they cut him offseason he is only $500,000 dead money and $2.375M cap savings. So I see this more as an audition for who is the back-up next year.

 

I will post it here, people should not be surprised if at this point Ryan Fitzpatrick is resigned next offseason to either be the mentor to a new young stud of the starter if they can't get who they want. That experiment has not been done yet. He was injured less than 1/2 of 1 game. 

 

I am sure there will be a bunch of - Taylor is better than Ryan but sorry that is just not true. Taylor does some things better than Ryan, scramble being the primary thing. But Ryan can make all the throws. And he has a lot more experience in the NFL. Not sure he gets us that many more wins but 2 more changes everything. 

 

One thing is for sure, this will be a very interesting off-season. 

 

 

 If Ron resigns Fitz, he should be fired on the spot.  If we draft a rookie, you get someone else to mentor him. Fitz is too old and he wouldn't last more than a game or two before he go t hurt.

[El Mexican]

9 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

This is another strawman argument from the Heineke contingent.  The whole <insert HOF QB here> couldn't save this band of gypsies angle.

 

Nobody is saying this is a great team, particularly not in it's current state.  Nobody has said that Brady or Montana would have this team headed to the Super Bowl.  What we are saying is that it's a fact that Heineke is not a franchise QB, no matter who the team is around him.

 

Meh, too many variables to take into consideration.

He did show some flashes of competency with the weapons he was given.

 

At this point, as I've said numerous times, the team needs a complete overhaul. QB is but one of those missing pieces.

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

 If Ron resigns Fitz, he should be fired on the spot.  If we draft a rookie, you get someone else to mentor him. Fitz is too old and he wouldn't last more than a game or two before he go t hurt.

Counter-point: Fitz has now had a full off-season in the system, he’s a veteran who the team loved during the off-season, and he will be cheap. 
 

Let’s say they draft a rookie regardless.  They can’t go into next season thinking TH can start until the rookie starts.  
 

So if you toss all the other folks in a ring, Mitch, Fitzy, all the rest of them, I dunno.  It’s like picking the best of the rest. And if they can’t get one, snd they bring back Fitz, I’d be ok with it.

 

But honestly I think Fitz is going to retire 

[kingdaddy]

9 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Those very vocal TH supporters are looking very small today. Again as has been posted many times NOBODY here wanted him to fail, I have only seen one poster say they didn't like him. Most all of us liked him and wanted to succeed.

 

 

But when posters go overboard and come off as if they are smarter than us, well they deserve to be called out on it.  Instead one of them lashes out, simply not a good look. Just admit you were wrong and we can all move on, attacking those who turned out to be right is not the way to go. 

TH beat Tom Brady this season and went toe to toe with him in the playoffs in his 1st ever NFL start. To judge him and say he's not the answer given what this team has gone through is unfair in my opinion. Look at his supporting cast and his defense and ask what QB in the league could win with what TH has been given? For those of you who want to move on from TH I'm with you but I don't know where you're gonna find something much better. It takes an entire roster to win...period. Look across the league at the recent1st round QB picks and it's not much better anywhere else. How would the kid from the Jets do with this WFT? How bout Trey Lance, Justin Fields, Mack Jones or any of the others? 

Fact is, injuries and COVID killed our season among some other things. We were on a roll going into the Dallas game and TH was a big part of that but COVID, injuries and the brutal short week schedule killed us. 

BTW, we got nothing out of Curtis Samuel, we had 1 proven TE on the roster and he got hurt after 2 weeks, our 1st round pick has struggled all season, our starting stud, overpaid safety was so bad he had to be moved to LB, and our stud DE, Chase Young was lost for the season. Gibson fumbled the ball in many key spots. The defense couldn't stop a high school team for long stretches of the season. 

Regardless of what you think about TH, what QB could've overcome everything this team went through this season? TH was asked to do more than anyone in his position should've been asked to do given his inexperience in the league....he may not be our future but he was dealt a crap-ass hand in a lot of ways.