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Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

LetThePointsSoar

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zCommander

zCommander

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It's not just about going deep, it's about being able to make all the throws.  Sure, he can get it 45 yards down the field with no trash at his feet when he's able to get his entire body into the throw.  What he can't do is hit the deep ball with any accuracy, stuff it into tight windows and throw it on a rope when required.  That's not me hating on Heineke, those are just facts and why he was on the couch.  As I've said numerous times before, he's outplayed his scouting report and hats off to him for that.  But he's not a starter in this league nor is he a draw for 'weapons'.  

 

He is not a true pocket passer. The coaches are trying to fit a square in a round circle. When he rolls out he is good. He was really good in the playoff game. He was making some great and accurate throws. Maybe the coaches have corrected him too much. He has made some really good tight window throws that you think it should have been intercepted but hey are not. 

 

When you don't have the same WRs you can build a chemistry with through out the season it is kinda of hard to be accurate all of the times. No QB has a 100% completion rate. TH completion rate doesn't suck either but I feel the lack of chemistry is effecting his game. 

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TMK9973

TMK9973

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Posted

I think people are reading to much into Rivera statement.

What I heard

"TH is the starting QB. But If the game is lost I or TH looks terrible I am gonna put Allen in, but i don't want to make it sound like its a benching or out of the blue and I want to give Allen some reps in case that happens, so im just gonna say we are gonna play both"  

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zCommander

zCommander

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Posted
1 minute ago, TMK9973 said:

I think people are reading to much into Rivera statement.

What I heard

"TH is the starting QB. But If the game is lost I or TH looks terrible I am gonna put Allen in, but i don't want to make it sound like its a benching or out of the blue and I want to give Allen some reps in case that happens, so im just gonna say we are gonna play both"  

 

Guess he is trying to maximize his profits by trying to do whatever it takes to win the last two then. 

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TMK9973

TMK9973

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Just now, zskins said:

 

Guess he is trying to maximize his profits by trying to do whatever it takes to win the last two then. 

yes.

I always think people underestimate Coaches desire to win.  To be a NFL coach you have to be competitive as hell.  Players sometimes may be done.  They have a vacation coming up, they got their money, they are competitive but might check out from the team.

But a NFL coach? It is extremely rare to ever find a NFL head coach at any point on any team not trying to win at all costs.  

 

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zCommander

zCommander

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1 minute ago, RFK Lives said:

Is Gilbert still on the roster?  I say play him and see what he has.  We have seen TH and KA, enough film on those guys to know what they can and cannot do.

 

What's the point. They guy is like 30 years old. Ron rather see who he wants to keep as the true #2. 

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Sacks 'n' Stuff

Sacks 'n' Stuff

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1 hour ago, zskins said:

 

He has an arm. He can complete a 45 yard pass. How often do these big arm QBs use their arm to constantly complete 45+ yard throws? How many deep throws are part of their plan in a game?

He has a limited arm. Arm strength isn’t just about how far you can throw it either. You need to have a certain velocity on the ball to even complete a lot of the intermediate throws and certainly if you hope for your receivers to get any yards after the catch.

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skinny21

skinny21

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IMO, there are 5 guys that are/were most important to Heinicke having success - McKissick as an outlet receiver and for his pass pro, Thomas because Heinicke likes to throw to the middle of the field and Thomas is our best red zone threat, and the interior of our oline - Heinicke can escape from tackles, but the pressure up the middle is a killer, as it is for most qbs.  Don’t think it’s been a coincidence he’s really struggled without those guys (besides Flowers).  Not to say I think he’s a good qb or should be our starter next year, just that he’s also been dealt a rough hand.

 

Much like Del Rio’s defense struggled early in the year when he was trying to run man and blitz, our guys struggled to play their rush assignments and there were major communication errors in the secondary.  Sometimes there’s just so much you can overcome in terms of roster issues.  That’s not to absolve Del Rio of any fault (much like Heinicke has had his share of issues)…

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

He has a limited arm. Arm strength isn’t just about how far you can throw it either. You need to have a certain velocity on the ball to even complete a lot of the intermediate throws and certainly if you hope for your receivers to get any yards after the catch.

That’s perfectly fair, but most people have been saying he cannot stretch the field - all of his deep balls were under thrown.  That’s not me saying he’s good on that front, just that you’re referencing a different argument.

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NickyJ

NickyJ

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59 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

What’s the point in playing both Taylor and Kyle? Can’t be to see what he has in them since anyone knows neither of them is a long-term solution.

Cage match for next year's "I've played in this offense for a season or two" job.

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Conn

Conn

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1 hour ago, zskins said:

 

He is not a true pocket passer. The coaches are trying to fit a square in a round circle. When he rolls out he is good. He was really good in the playoff game. He was making some great and accurate throws. Maybe the coaches have corrected him too much. He has made some really good tight window throws that you think it should have been intercepted but hey are not. 

 

When you don't have the same WRs you can build a chemistry with through out the season it is kinda of hard to be accurate all of the times. No QB has a 100% completion rate. TH completion rate doesn't suck either but I feel the lack of chemistry is effecting his game. 

 

Some people are just gamers. He came into that playoff game and made some of the best throws of his life. He’s had a couple other games with magical throws. A lot of those throws didn’t actually have superb placement, but many did. He’ll always have those highlights and hell, he very well may create some more. But that doesn’t erase what he’s done on a play by play basis in a season’s worth of starts now, though. He’s not consistent, he doesn’t have the arm strength and he doesn’t consistently have the ball placement to succeed and make every throw a franchise QB needs in his toolbox to threaten a defense.
 

He can be a lot of fun, and he absolutely belongs in this league as a high quality backup. He can give you some magical spot starts. He’s not a franchise QB and his physical limitations and spotty ball placement are the main reasons why. 

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wit33

wit33

Posted
Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Of which both may be gone. Trubisky + Rookie = much improved QB room.


Trubisky or Mariota + rookie sounds great to me. Both should come at 3-5% of the cap. 

 

48 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

Some people are just gamers. He came into that playoff game and made some of the best throws of his life. He’s had a couple other games with magical throws. A lot of those throws didn’t actually have superb placement, but many did. He’ll always have those highlights and hell, he very well may create some more. But that doesn’t erase what he’s done on a play by play basis in a season’s worth of starts now, though. He’s not consistent, he doesn’t have the arm strength and he doesn’t consistently have the ball placement to succeed and make every throw a franchise QB needs in his toolbox to threaten a defense.
 

He can be a lot of fun, and he absolutely belongs in this league as a high quality backup. He can give you some magical spot starts. He’s not a franchise QB and his physical limitations and spotty ball placement are the main reasons why. 


It’s hard to ignore his inaccuracy at times. Must be elite in terms of accuracy if you lack arm strength. Moot point these days, but I would’ve ran him much more until the wheels fell off in an attempt to maximize his abilities. 

Edited by wit33
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BatteredFanSyndrome

BatteredFanSyndrome

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1 hour ago, zskins said:

 

He is not a true pocket passer. The coaches are trying to fit a square in a round circle. When he rolls out he is good. He was really good in the playoff game. He was making some great and accurate throws. Maybe the coaches have corrected him too much. He has made some really good tight window throws that you think it should have been intercepted but hey are not. 

 

When you don't have the same WRs you can build a chemistry with through out the season it is kinda of hard to be accurate all of the times. No QB has a 100% completion rate. TH completion rate doesn't suck either but I feel the lack of chemistry is effecting his game. 

You can't just roll dudes out and cut the field in half that often.  I think you are mistaking his ability to squirt out of a negative play and hit a free running guy for a positive play.  Kudos to TH for his ability to do that, in fact - I think it's the primary reason he's still starting for us.  But there is no magic formula that is going to win us games with TH at quarterback more often than not.  You have to at least have the threat of the ability to go deep or make throws to parts of the field that he cannot reach.  You are correct that he has shown the ability to anticipate well at times and make tight window throws.  However that is not dudes bread and butter, nor is hitting guys in stride for YAC.  He's made a lot of completions as the result of masterful misdirection and play design by Scott Turner, along with what used to be a pretty healthy O-line moving defenders and creating lanes for Gibson/McKissick....all that has created some wide open throws for him to make.  And again to his credit, he's shown the ability to turn a bad play into a good one.  I just don't think that's an overall winning formula.  Sure, it can win you some games, but it's not a sustainable winning formula.

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NoCalMike

NoCalMike

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Posted (edited)

Seemed like Rivera finally showed today, while still trying to be careful with his words, the signs of the coaches realizing he (Heinicke) isn't in the plans beyond this season, as far as the starting position goes.  First he all but admitted that the opening drive INT is likely a completion if the ball is thrown to where McLaurin actually is on the sideline, and not inside on the numbers.  Then he comes out and says they want to see what they have in Allen.  If you ask me it is way too late and sort of pointless now, but I also want to see what other QBs have to offer in this system, with this roster.  

Edited by NoCalMike
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PartyPosse

PartyPosse

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Posted
7 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Seemed like Rivera finally showed today, while still trying to be careful with his words, the signs of the coaches realizing he (Heinicke) isn't in the plans beyond this season, as far as the starting position goes.  First he all but admitted that the opening drive INT is likely a completion if the ball is thrown to where McLaurin actually is on the sideline, and not inside on the numbers.  Then he comes out and says they want to see what they have in Allen.  If you ask me it is way too late and sort of pointless now, but I also want to see what other QBs have to offer in this system, with this roster.  

It's better to not leave any questions unanswered. They gave him opportunity and he couldn't take advantage. Better to know now than preseason game 2 next year.

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ThomasRoane

ThomasRoane

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

This thread will be in the graveyard soon...any Hive people wanna get some last thoughts in?

 

Yes, I'm very disappointed.  I was really hoping we could build a great team and Heinicke be just good enough to lead them to a Super Bowl (The Eagles did it with Nick Foles who has less talent than TH; he can't even keep a job as a backup).  Because the alternative is going to suck.  Giving up draft capitol to go get a QB when your team is still in desperate need of an influx of talent on both sides of the ball is going to hurt in the long run.  See seasons 2013-2014 after the trade for RGIII in 2012 for an example.  

 

2013:  3 -13

2014:  5 - 11

 

The running game covered up the glaring weaknesses on both sides of the ball for that 4 game win streak; RPO did so in 2012.  What FA QB can make the Oline and Receivers play much better than they are now?  Ryan?  Wilson?  Think their agent would take a call after watching the debacle last night?  The QBs coming out of College ain't gonna make a difference.  

 

All you guys gloating about TH's downfall haven't figured out how screwed this franchise is.  

 

You got your wish.  TH flamed out.  Congratz.  RR will be gone soon after the QB he picks flames out.  RR will depart with a damaged reputation and will end up in a dumpster with Schottenheimer and Shanahan.  The next big name will come here.  Show some promise only to see the franchise go down in flames.  Then we'll que up the next big name coach or QB.  Round and round we go.  You will be miserable and you will deserve it.  

Edited by ThomasRoane
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