Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[zCommander]

This is a good video of that Terry's catch in the end zone. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NoCalMike]

2 minutes ago, zskins said:

This is a good video of that Terry's catch in the end zone. 

 

 So many people were arguing that the official was about to throw a flag, until Terry caught that and decided not to, but I am calling BS.  The official just looks like his hands were on his hips and they throw plenty of flags after the play is over when there has been a penalty. The PI was so obvious & blatant, yet that official was going to allow it to happen. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

The arm strength will hold Heinicke back from being elite. That doesn't mean he can't be a good QB. 

[mistertim]

30 minutes ago, tshile said:

I don’t see the arm strength issue. 
 

like I get he doesn’t have a gun

 

i don’t see how that’s what would keep him from being a quality starter

 

reading and understanding defenses, ability to throw receivers open. That’s more important 

 

many passes are straight up touch passes. You don’t have to gun it 60% of the time. 
 

deep ball will always be iffy but he’s willing to throw it and that’s a net positive. It’ll work out often enough. 

 

It doesn't keep him from being a quality starter, but it does impose some limitations and forces his anticipation on certain throws to be elite, since he won't be able to get it there in time without that.

 

That's exactly how he got into trouble yesterday when he almost got picked 3 times. Those were out routes where he waited a tick too long to throw the ball, and since he doesn't have the arm talent to get the ball there fast, it gave the DB time to catch up. Luckily they dropped those INTs, but that won't always be the case.

 

So he has to improve to where he's letting passes go on certain routes earlier than he is (which is certainly possible with more practice), and he also need to realize his limitations and not try to fit passes into windows he can't make.

Edited October 5, 2021 by mistertim

[UK Skins]

Good discussion about arm strength. When Brady went to the Buccs I seem to recall a big debate about his lack of arm strength and how he was almost done. He had an incredible season throwing really long and accurate passes. I've got to think it was the way Bellicheat called games and not a lack of arm strength after all. Taylor sadly is going to throw pick 6s when he tries certain throws that float and will get picked and run back for TDs.  (I have that same problem in Madden!)

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

It doesn't keep him from being a quality starter, but it does impose some limitations and forces his anticipation on certain throws to be elite, since he won't be able to get it there in time without that.

 

That's exactly how he got into trouble yesterday when he almost got picked 3 times. Those were out routes where he waited a tick too long to throw the ball, and since he doesn't have the arm talent to get the ball there fast, it gave the DB time to catch up. Luckily they dropped those INTs, but that won't always be the case.

 

So he has to improve to where he's letting passes go on certain routes earlier than he is (which is certainly possible with more practice), and he also need to realize his limitations and not try to fit passes into windows he can't make.

 

Yeah the issue with arm strength isn't really the deep ball, its more about tight window throws.   Simply said if the CB has a beat on a throw based on formation-Heinicke's eyes the odds are better that said CB can pick Heinicke off because the ball is not getting their quick.  They have that extra second to make that play on the ball.

 

For me there are 3 things that I'd like to see from Heinicke to reassure me.

 

A.  A bigger sample size to know that he isn't another in a long series of QBs who shined in short samples and then fell back to earth.

 

B.  Does his lack of arm strength end up leading to him being interception prone or not?

 

C.  Can he stay healthy?

 

If he passes those tests, then I am on board.  I like him right now so I am not really cynical about the player.  It's more being cynical about the process of short sample QBs.  Is he a Minshew -- also a dude without the best arm strength but was fun and played with moxie but didn't last or a Romo?  I don't know but I do know I am not trusting how the movie unfolds until I get deeper into the movie.  I have enjoyed the flashes from other QBs here like Campbell's 6-2 start under Zorn with some MVP talk, Todd Collins leading us into the playoffs, in Gus we trust, RG3 2012, etc.  So I am enjoying this one, too.  Hopefully this time it ends better.  

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/jaguars-quarterback-gardner-minshew-potential-future-jacksonville/

Despite promising statistics, there are reasons to be concerned about Minshew’s future potential

 

It didn’t take long for Jacksonville Jaguars quarterback Gardner Minshew to become a rookie phenom. Despite being drafted in the sixth round, his playmaking ability, his outlandish personality, and his mustache quickly turned him into a fan favorite. 

 

...In 14 weeks of play, Minshew managed 3271 yards, 21 touchdowns, and six interceptions. It’s more touchdowns and fewer interceptions than fellow rookie Kyler Murray had, and he started two more games than Minshew did (and was drafted five rounds earlier). For a rookie, those statistics are quite impressive. However, they don’t tell the full story; Minshew’s play last season showed multiple flaws in his game.

To start with, Minshew’s arm strength is substandard for an NFL quarterback. That’s part of the reason he was drafted in the sixth round despite having a phenomenal senior season at Washington State. It is an unfortunate fact of life for NFL quarterbacks that arm strength is something that truly great players cannot do without. There is a certain point at which a player’s arm is simply too weak for them to be an elite quarterback. Now, Minshew’s arm isn’t quite that poor, but it is undeniably below the level of the NFL’s best players at the position.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

9 hours ago, CTskin said:

 

I’ll backpedal a step, yes my qb needs to be able to make nfl passes. I’m not saying a genius will make up for my 32 yard bomb arm strength.

There is more to it than throwing it deep, it’s fitting in spots, tight windows. 
 

I brought up Case Keenum earlier for a reason. It’s the closest comp for Heineke I’ve got.  Sure they aren’t carbon copies of one another.  They both lack arm strength but are/were shifty in the pocket and can escape, so it helps to alleviate some of that.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Earlier in the week, Heinicke had provided a self-scouting report for the quarterback who once won a Georgia state player of the year award at Collins Hill High: “Small, weak-armed, slow,” he said. Relative to NFL quarterbacks, aside from his speed, those adjectives remain accurate. His limitations sometimes surface. In the first half, Heinicke waited too long to recognize an open receiver down the right sideline, and his late floater could have been intercepted.

More often than not, though, Heinicke understands how to suppress his weaknesses with his strengths. He cannot make some throws that average NFL quarterbacks can because of his arm strength. But he is willing to try, and can make, some throws that even great NFL quarterbacks cannot because of his guile and quickness, his moxie and spatial awareness.

“I’ve been doing those plays throughout my life,” Heinicke said. “That’s kind of the player I am.”

 

The first Heinicke Play on Sunday came with four minutes left in the fourth quarter, with Washington trailing 30-22. Heinicke dropped back from the Atlanta 17-yard line. Defensive end Dante Fowler broke free and dived at Heinicke. He wriggled out of Fowler’s grasp, twisted and retreated to the 29. He spotted McLaurin in the back of the end zone and lobbed the ball nearly 40 yards, a wobbly spiral thrown off balance.

 

 

 

“When you have a guy like Terry, you want to give him a shot to make a play,” Heinicke said. “I threw it up to him, let him do his thing.”

Heinicke has a knack for when to take what may seem like an absurd risk. Falcons cornerback Avery Williams had been turned around and lost track of where he and the ball were. McLaurin settled under the pass like a punt returner and caught it for a touchdown.

Washington missed the two-point conversion, and after Atlanta failed to ice the game with a first down, Heinicke received another chance from his team’s 24 with less than two minutes left. He moved Washington to the Atlanta 30, the key a 24-yard pass to DeAndre Carter that Heinicke floated to just the right spot at just the right time.

 

At the 30, offensive coordinator Scott Turner called a pattern that flooded the left side of the field. Heinicke drifted left and saw the Falcons had defended all of his receivers. The second Heinicke Play happened. Few quarterbacks would have had the calm not to sprint forward a few yards and to notice McKissic leaking into open space on the other side of the field. Heinicke rotated his body and flipped a pass to McKissic.

“He’s a courageous dude who plays all out,” Rivera said. “His teammates feed off his energy. They understand no play is dead, so they keep working.”

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/10/03/taylor-heinicke-washington-football-falcons/

[DJHJR86]

If Heinicke was "just a backup", you would think he would have played like Chase Daniel, Ryan Finley, Nick Mullens, or any other backup in this league that gets a chance when a starter goes down and their play shows you exactly why they are a backup.  Heinicke's play (and his numbers) do not strike me as a guy who is "just a backup".  Granted, he could fall completely off of a cliff, but I don't see that happening at all.  He already showed his guts in the playoff game.  The largest concern with him, IMO, is health.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

19 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

If Heinicke was "just a backup", you would think he would have played like Chase Daniel, Ryan Finley, Nick Mullens, or any other backup in this league that gets a chance when a starter goes down and their play shows you exactly why they are a backup.  Heinicke's play (and his numbers) do not strike me as a guy who is "just a backup".  Granted, he could fall completely off of a cliff, but I don't see that happening at all.  He already showed his guts in the playoff game.  The largest concern with him, IMO, is health.  

I'm not concerned about his guts, clearly he's a baller.  That's not in question.  It's once defenses catch up, a la Minshew, Keenum, <insert other weaker armed QBs here>, they can force the issues.  I do like reading that he's self aware and perhaps that will help him moving forward.  What I think has doomed some other less than strong armed QBs in the past, is they think their arm is stronger than it really is and try to make throws that they cannot make, which lead to interceptions and their eventual downfall.

[skinny21]

In terms of arm strength, I will say that I’d like to see his receivers help him out a bit.  I mean, they had been to an extent in terms of making some nice (or even spectacular) catches, but I’m talking about a concerted effort to come back for the ball rather than wait on it.  Against Atlanta, Terry’s out route to the right sideline that the db undercut and almost picked is a good example.  If Terry bends the route slightly back toward the LOS once the ball is in the air, it’s either a catch or incomplete, with no real chance of a pick.  Versus the Giants, the almost pick by Bradberry on a comeback route by Terry - same thing.  To be clear, Terry in both cases is (I think) doing just what he should, but knowing Heinicke’s arm limitation, I think the receivers should be thinking of adjusting to those types of throws.  It’s a small thing (and probably somewhat difficult for the receiver adjust to), but it could potentially mean 1-2 more completions or less interceptable balls (or interceptions) per game, which would be huge IMO.

 

Or maybe I’m crazy for thinking this way, lol

[ThePackisback]

7 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

In terms of arm strength, I will say that I’d like to see his receivers help him out a bit.  I mean, they had been to an extent in terms of making some nice (or even spectacular) catches, but I’m talking about a concerted effort to come back for the ball rather than wait on it.  Against Atlanta, Terry’s out route to the right sideline that the db undercut and almost picked is a good example.  If Terry bends the route slightly back toward the LOS once the ball is in the air, it’s either a catch or incomplete, with no real chance of a pick.  Versus the Giants, the almost pick by Bradberry on a comeback route by Terry - same thing.  To be clear, Terry in both cases is (I think) doing just what he should, but knowing Heinicke’s arm limitation, I think the receivers should be thinking of adjusting to those types of throws.  It’s a small thing (and probably somewhat difficult for the receiver adjust to), but it could potentially mean 1-2 more completions or less interceptable balls (or interceptions) per game, which would be huge IMO.

 

Or maybe I’m crazy for thinking this way, lol

You guys I think could torch us through the air.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

If Heinicke was "just a backup", you would think he would have played like Chase Daniel, Ryan Finley, Nick Mullens, or any other backup in this league that gets a chance when a starter goes down and their play shows you exactly why they are a backup.  Heinicke's play (and his numbers) do not strike me as a guy who is "just a backup".  Granted, he could fall completely off of a cliff, but I don't see that happening at all.  He already showed his guts in the playoff game.  The largest concern with him, IMO, is health.  

 

I don't think we know whether he's just a backup or a bonafide stater, yet.  You are mentioning backups coming in and failing.  I mentioned a bunch who have succeeded for a spell.  I think this needs to play out.  

 

lol, I guess my age is catching up to me.  I just recall the other samples so well and ditto the excitement at the time including on this board about us finally escaping the QB dungeon and we fans need to be believers that we've turned the corner and this time its different.  

 

And again my gut leans positive on Heinicke.  I do think he can be a starter in this league but also at the same if we are talking a year from now that things flamed out for Taylor whether for his play ala a Minshew or injury I'd be surprised but I wouldn't be shocked.  I got my fingers crossed.  And I admit I am a bit superstitious and on that front the more enthusiasm I see as to people suggesting we need to rest easy, implying this time its different, the more I worry about that enthusiasm being a jinx.  

 

https://www.washingtonfootball.com/news/collins-keeps-on-ticking-3449564

Two touchdowns, 224 yards and a Redskins win later showed that preparation had paid off for Collins.

 

"I'd spent so many years waiting for that chance," Collins said. "I remember how I felt after the game I was just so pumped. I was ready to play and play well and help the team win. That was awesome. That was kind of what I had been preparing for my whole career but never got the opportunity to do."

Collins would throw five touchdowns during the Redskins remarkable run to the playoffs, as the team won four straight games before a 35-14 Wild Card playoff loss in Seattle.

Before and after that December run in 2007, Collins has mostly served as a backup during a career that has spanned three teams and 15 years.

In that time, he has come to understand how tough the career of a backup can be.

 

"It's so hard because you don't get any reps in practice. Really the deck is stacked against you," Collins said. "You have to put in that extra time in the facility, pay attention in meetings or do whatever you can gleam to get an edge."

While mastering that edge, Collins has watched a lot of Campbell. "I think he really has all the tools to become a successful quarterback here. He's shown he can be successful," Collins said.

With consistent offensive line play, Collins believes the Redskins' offense is primed to make some big plays in the passing game this year.

As for the quarterback currently trailing him on the Redskins depth chart, Collins believes that Colt Brennan will develop into a good player in the NFL.

"He always seems to have the knack for big plays, and he's kind of a play-maker sort of [quarterback]," Collins says. "When he's playing, he plays with confidence."

Whether starting or holding a clipboard, Collins believes that his endurance in this league is a testament to his belief in himself.

"To hang on here in Washington and finally persevere, not give up or become discouraged and think, 'Why am I doing this? I'm not going to get another opportunity.' Yeah, I feel good about that."

Collins career continues to tick, just like the Patriots clock radio on his son's nightstand.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[veteranskinsfan]

On 12/28/2020 at 1:18 PM, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Imagine Smith mentoring Heinicke.

Most people's brain would explode if they heard those conversations.

Also Smith has a photographic memory so he never screwed up on calling plays.   I bet Taylor has a high IQ.

[redskinss]

Arm strength to a quarterback is like a hammer to a carpenter.

 

Having a hammer sure as hell doesn't make you a good carpenter but if you don't have one you have to compensate with screw guns and other tools and there are certain jobs you'll just never be able to pull off.

 

But you can still be a good carpenter. 

 

[Morneblade]

20 minutes ago, ThePackisback said:

You guys I think could torch us through the air.

 

I think we can have success, but you guys have a better chance of scoring a TD on every possession than not in that game. It's going to be a track meet and you're Usain Bolt. We are not.

 

First loser it is for us

[skinsfan93]

10 hours ago, ANONYMOUS SOURCE. said:

P Manning  had mediocre arm strength and it became even worse a few years in, he  made up for it in smarts of course.  Taylor’s biggest downfall is size IMO, of course that was the knock on Brees also. Sean Peyton adjusted his offense so Brees could take drop backs much further than normal allowing a better view and angle over defenders and that seemed to work out lol. Durability and decision making are what mattters and we aren’t far enough in to know yet but I’m hoping for the best because I really like the kid. Plus unlike Cousins I think his teammates actually like Taylor 😂

To me height doesn’t seem like an issue with Heinicke. I haven’t seen any balls batted down at the line and the line seems to do a good job giving him throwing lanes. 

[HigSkin]

Rivera on The Junkies this morning said they've been stressing a lot at practice for WR's to stay active getting open because Heinicke can extend plays and need guys to keep working even when the play breaks down.

[ThePackisback]

4 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

I think we can have success, but you guys have a better chance of scoring a TD on every possession than not in that game. It's going to be a track meet and you're Usain Bolt. We are not.

 

First loser it is for us

Hopefully we have a great officiated game with no injuries. Love you all.

[Darrell Green Fan]

12 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Can people please stop assuming that anyone who has questions or concerns about Heinicke is not rooting for him?

 

As far as Warner...meh. I personally don't believe he should be in the HoF. He was a good QB but he wasn't elite. He only had 2 elite years in his career, and they were with what was probably the single most offensively stacked team in NFL history along with a (then) cutting edge offensive system. After that he only had 1 year where he was anything above decent. I think his HoF nod is more about his story (which is pretty amazing) than it is his play over his whole career.

 

Yeah I'm torn on Kurt Warner, perhaps my favorite all time non-Washington player.  And I tend to side the way you do, my bar for any HOF is higher than most. But what he did in Arizona kind of put me on the fence, had they won well....  

 

But Heinke ain't no Kurt Warner. Warner had a legit NFL arm and was way more accurate.  At least in his good years, not sure what happened in NY.  

[ThePackisback]

2 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Yeah I'm torn on Kurt Warner, perhaps my favorite all time non-Washington player.  And I tend to side the way you do, my bar for any HOF is higher than most. But what he did in Arizona kind of put me on the fence, had they won well....  

 

But Heinke ain't no Kurt Warner. Warner had a legit NFL arm and was way more accurate.  At least in his good years, not sure what happened in NY.  

Hey DG remember me bud? How you doing?

[Morneblade]

18 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

To me height doesn’t seem like an issue with Heinicke. I haven’t seen any balls batted down at the line and the line seems to do a good job giving him throwing lanes. 

 

Taylor moves around a lot, so that helps. But yeah, he's been really good about that. Seems like other taller QB's we've had would get a couple balls knocked down. TH might be one of those guys that just knows how to use arm angles or.....has gotten a little lucky so far. The ODU guys might have a better bead on this.

 

13 minutes ago, ThePackisback said:

Hopefully we have a great officiated game with no injuries. Love you all.

 

Same. No injuries, but man, the officiating has been something else for us. Not sure how it's been for you guys, but I've seen a lot of bad calls and no calls, both ways.

[RedskinsLegacy]

On 9/29/2021 at 10:58 PM, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

For real? Did you not see the pillowy soft passes to the outside that hung up on the breeze like that empty bag from American Beauty?

He has multiple 30 point games with 2 game winning drives. Buffalo has shut out 2 teams now, 35-0 over Miami and 42-0 over the Texans. Taylor is doing his job, If our Defense would wake up one day, this team could play toe to toe against anyone in the league.

[86 Snyder]

At minimum, Heinicke is a valuable guy to have on the roster.  He's cheap and can win games.  If he can stay healthy, he's good enough to hold down the fort and allow the team to gamble on a high upside raw talent in the draft...like the kid from Liberty for example.  Best case scenario?  He's Russell Wilson.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

So Heinicke is in the Friend Zone, is that what I'm getting? lol...