PartyPosse Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 34 minutes ago, Rogue Jedi said: Arizona Cardinals - Murray - 1st Atlanta Falcons - Ryan - 1st Baltimore Ravens - Jackson - 1st Buffalo Bills - Allen - 1st Carolina Panthers - Darnold - 1st Chicago Bears - Dalton - 2nd - Soon to be replaced by Fields - 1st Cincinnati Bengals - Burrow - 1st Cleveland Browns - Mayfield - 1st Dallas Cowboys - Prescott - 4th Denver Broncos - Bridgewater - 1st Detroit Lions - Goff - 1st Green Bay Packers - Rodgers - 1st Houston Texans - Watson - 1st Indianapolis Colts - Wentz - 1st Jacksonville Jaguars - Lawrence - 1st Kansas City Chiefs - Mahomes - 1st Las Vegas Raiders - Carr - 2nd Los Angeles Chargers - Herbert - 1st Los Angeles Rams - Stafford - 1st Miami Dolphins - Tua - 1st Minnesota Vikings - Cousins - 4th New England Patriots - Jones - 1st New Orleans Saints - Winston - 1st New York Giants - Jones - 1st New York Jets - Wilson - 1st Philadelphia Eagles - Hurts - 2nd Pittsburgh Steelers - Roethlisberger- 1st San Francisco 49ers - Garrapolo 2nd - Soon to be replaced by Lance - 1st Seattle Seahawks - Wilson - 4th*** Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Brady - 6th*** Tennessee Titans - Tannehill - 1st**Washington Football Team - Heinicke - UFA** 78% of the starting (and soon to be) QB's in this league are 1st rounders. Out of the 7 that are not 1st rounders, Brady and Wilson are exceptions that are future Hall of Famers. Dak is above average, Carr and Cousins are about average, and the jury is still out on Hurts. We are the only team starting an UFA at QB. Go through that list and try to pick one QB you would take Heineke over. Maybe the only one is Goff, and possibly Daniel Jones. I love Heinicke's story as much as anyone, and he is the best option we got right now. But as of today, we have a bottom 3 starting QB in the NFL at best. Keep in mind, 7 of those first rounders aren’t on the team they we’re drafted by which means 7 additional first round QBs that didn’t work out with their original franchise. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 25 minutes ago, D’Pablo said: I said ceiling, but don’t let reality get in the way of your skepticism. Going by this we should immediately offer 2 1st round picks for Jameis Winston, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinky Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 39 minutes ago, Rogue Jedi said: Carolina Panthers - Darnold - 1st Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Brady - 6th*****Washington Football Team - Heinicke - UFA** sooooo, you're saying Heini is closer to being Brady than he is to being Darnold. LET'S GOOO! 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Jedi Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 1 minute ago, PartyPosse said: Keep in mind, 7 of those first rounders aren’t on the team they we’re drafted by which means 7 additional first round QBs that didn’t work out with their original franchise. Correct, but they have shown enough in their careers to warrant a starting position again, and are not a complete bust by 1st round standards. Again, I point to Goff border lining the "not good" territory of a 1st round QB and possibly the only one I'd take Heinicke over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D’Pablo Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 6 minutes ago, mistertim said: Going by this we should immediately offer 2 1st round picks for Jameis Winston, right? I know nuance is lost in these discussions, but I’ll explain anyway… When a player actually finishes top 10 in QBR for the week, is that not evidence he has the potential (ceiling) to finish in the top 10 by season’s end? By my logic, if Jameis plays as well as he did yesterday through season’s end, yes, we should potentially pony up (he’ll be a free agent, btw). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 1 minute ago, D’Pablo said: I know nuance is lost in these discussions, but I’ll explain anyway… When a player actually finishes top 10 in QBR for the week, is that not evidence he has the potential (ceiling) to finish in the top 10 by season’s end? By my logic, if Jameis plays as well as he did yesterday through season’s end, yes, we should potentially pony up (he’ll be a free agent, btw). No, it's evidence that the QB had a good game. There can be many reasons for that and/or a combination of them. The QB is just really great, the opponent's defense was bad, the opponent had many starters out due to injury, the opponent just had a crappy game, they hadn't game planned for that QB, the QB is mostly mediocre but just had a really great game (it happens). There are guys who are completely mediocre and also suddenly have a stretch of really good games and then flame out. I remember in 2007 when Derek Anderson had a string of good games with the Browns and there were people on this board who were convinced we should offer at least one if not two 1st rounders for him. Same thing with Matt Cassel in 2008. I'm not going to give up two 1st round picks for a dude who has been mediocre and then suddenly lights it up for one or even a string of games. So I'd definitely not be interested in doing anything like that for a guy like Jameis Winston. But if he's a FA then I suppose I wouldn't mind as long as it's not an insane contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 17 minutes ago, Rogue Jedi said: Correct, but they have shown enough in their careers to warrant a starting position again, and are not a complete bust by 1st round standards. Again, I point to Goff border lining the "not good" territory of a 1st round QB and possibly the only one I'd take Heinicke over. You can also look around at all the first rounders still floating in the league not good enough to start. Rosen, Mariota, Colt, Haskins, Lock (Although a high second),Trubisky… Just now, mistertim said: I'm not going to give up two 1st round picks for a dude who has been mediocre and then suddenly lights it up for one or even a string of games. So I'd definitely not be interested in doing anything like that for a guy like Jameis Winston. But if he's a FA then I suppose I wouldn't mind as long as it's not an insane contract. I would offer up a 3rd minimum for Mariota right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 11 minutes ago, D’Pablo said: if Jameis plays as well as he did yesterday through season’s end, yes, we should potentially pony up (he’ll be a free agent, btw). Well...clearly....Winston played lights-out football yesterday, because he retains those inspirational messages from his trainer...or does he ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: I would offer up a 3rd minimum for Mariota right now. I'd be down for a 3rd for Mariota. Though I seriously doubt the Raiders would take anything less than a 2nd +. Especially if they knew the team inquiring was desperate (aka us). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Jedi Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 6 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: You can also look around at all the first rounders still floating in the league not good enough to start. Rosen, Mariota, Colt, Haskins, Lock (Although a high second),Trubisky… Fair, but aside from Colt and Haskins for obvious reasons, Mariota and Trubisky could be considered reasonable competition for Heinicke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 As much as I like Hein I didn’t really want to have this conversation by halftime week 1. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraCommander Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Llevron said: As much as I like Hein I didn’t really want to have this conversation by halftime week 1. I guess it’s better than having it week 4 because Fitzpatrick is struggling to move the ball and score. Everything leading up until the injury suggested that would be the case. But alas here we are and we don’t have to go that route. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Florgon79 said: I guess it’s better than having it week 4 because Fitzpatrick is struggling to move the ball and score. Everything leading up until the injury suggested that would be the case. But alas here we are and we don’t have to go that route. You mean based on all 6 of Fitz's passes in his very first game with a new team? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy Yoda Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Llevron said: As much as I like Hein I didn’t really want to have this conversation by halftime week 1. You should have expected this. You also should expect to see Kyle Allen by week 4, a QB carousel is sort of our thing. Edited September 13, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraCommander Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, mistertim said: You mean based on all 6 of Fitz's passes in his very first game with a new team? That and preseason. I know it’s not a lot to go on but just call it a hunch. I’m not even really blaming him. I think a lot of it is scheme and Scott Turners play calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Florgon79 said: That and preseason. I know it’s not a lot to go on but just call it a hunch. I’m not even really blaming him. I think a lot of it is scheme and Scott Turners play calling. Preseason where he also hardly threw any passes. So it's all basically just a "hunch". I'm not saying he was going to light it up or be bad this season. I don't know. I just think anyone saying "Yeah it was obvious that Fitz isn't the guy" based on that small sample size it nuttier than squirrel poo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Florgon79 said: That and preseason. I know it’s not a lot to go on but just call it a hunch. I’m not even really blaming him. I think a lot of it is scheme and Scott Turners play calling. Fitz looked really flat including the preseason. And anytime Taylor Heinicke comes in, the offense perks up. I'd roll with him, just to see what happens. If he's not the answer (and I can't say, either way) we look for either a FA (Garoppolo might be one) or the draft. First team O w/ Fitz has looked pretty bad out there though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraCommander Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 6 minutes ago, mistertim said: Preseason where he also hardly threw any passes. So it's all basically just a "hunch". I'm not saying he was going to light it up or be bad this season. I don't know. I just think anyone saying "Yeah it was obvious that Fitz isn't the guy" based on that small sample size it nuttier than squirrel poo. I’m not saying it was obvious he wasn’t the guy. Just that based on our history with the position, there would be a QB controversy by week 4. It’s our M.O. I will reiterate that I think some of it has to do with Turner and the scheme. A scheme that Taylor seems to be more comfortable in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drock_VB Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 He’s smart. I believe he was taking Math courses at ODU before he joined the WFT. Memory, and being able to make quick decisions is highly underrated IMO . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, Drock_VB said: He’s smart. I believe he was taking Math courses at ODU before he joined the WFT. Memory, and being able to make quick decisions is highly underrated IMO . Finishing his Engineering Degree. Was taking Mathematics in Nature, Number Theory and Discrete Mathematics, Applied Numerical Methods and Partial Differential Equations. So yeah, higher math. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D’Pablo Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 36 minutes ago, mistertim said: No, it's evidence that the QB had a good game. There can be many reasons for that and/or a combination of them. The QB is just really great, the opponent's defense was bad, the opponent had many starters out due to injury, the opponent just had a crappy game, they hadn't game planned for that QB, the QB is mostly mediocre but just had a really great game (it happens). There are guys who are completely mediocre and also suddenly have a stretch of really good games and then flame out. I remember in 2007 when Derek Anderson had a string of good games with the Browns and there were people on this board who were convinced we should offer at least one if not two 1st rounders for him. Same thing with Matt Cassel in 2008. I'm not going to give up two 1st round picks for a dude who has been mediocre and then suddenly lights it up for one or even a string of games. So I'd definitely not be interested in doing anything like that for a guy like Jameis Winston. But if he's a FA then I suppose I wouldn't mind as long as it's not an insane contract. You’ll have to point me toward the quote where I said Heineke is guaranteed to be a top 10 QB when all is said and done. I’m not contradicting anything you’ve said, but I am not taking a pessimistic view of things, either. A good game is evidence (not a conclusion) that his ceiling (not a certainty) is somewhere in the top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, Morneblade said: Fitz looked really flat including the preseason. And anytime Taylor Heinicke comes in, the offense perks up. I'd roll with him, just to see what happens. If he's not the answer (and I can't say, either way) we look for either a FA (Garoppolo might be one) or the draft. First team O w/ Fitz has looked pretty bad out there though. No doubt that the offense has perked up, but we also don't necessarily know why that is. Every time he's played it's been a surprised to everyone, including the opposing team, and he's also been the complete opposite of the kind of QB they've been game planning for. He also seems to be a hard working, fiery, and likeable guy who really gives it his all so that helps. So it could just be that, or it could be that he's really good. Or some combination of them. But I want to see him be consistent over multiple games when the other team actually has tape on him before I make any sort of judgement of him one way or the other. And as far as preseason, let's be honest...it's not like Heinicke really did all that much of note either. Played ok, but nothing amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper Skins Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 3 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said: Once again Heinicke looks pretty good. His off-key playmaking ability buys the offense some time and he finds ways to move the ball down the field. He likes to throw high but I think overall he's a starter in this league. Hard to think of a comp for him. Favre? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExoDus84 Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 Well, now that teams know he's going to be the starter, let's see how Heini plays. I like his streetball attitude, but defenses can and will game plan against that. I guess we'll see. Get well, Fitzy. Sucks to lose him in the 2nd quarter of the first game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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