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Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

LetThePointsSoar

By LetThePointsSoar
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PartyPosse

PartyPosse

Posted
Posted
34 minutes ago, Rogue Jedi said:

Arizona Cardinals - Murray - 1st
Atlanta Falcons - Ryan - 1st 
Baltimore Ravens - Jackson - 1st
Buffalo Bills - Allen - 1st
Carolina Panthers - Darnold - 1st
Chicago Bears - Dalton - 2nd - Soon to be replaced by Fields - 1st 
Cincinnati Bengals - Burrow - 1st
Cleveland Browns - Mayfield - 1st
Dallas Cowboys - Prescott - 4th
Denver Broncos - Bridgewater - 1st 
Detroit Lions - Goff - 1st
Green Bay Packers - Rodgers - 1st
Houston Texans - Watson - 1st
Indianapolis Colts - Wentz - 1st
Jacksonville Jaguars - Lawrence - 1st
Kansas City Chiefs - Mahomes - 1st
Las Vegas Raiders - Carr - 2nd
Los Angeles Chargers - Herbert - 1st
Los Angeles Rams - Stafford - 1st
Miami Dolphins - Tua - 1st
Minnesota Vikings - Cousins - 4th
New England Patriots - Jones - 1st
New Orleans Saints - Winston - 1st
New York Giants - Jones - 1st
New York Jets - Wilson - 1st
Philadelphia Eagles - Hurts - 2nd
Pittsburgh Steelers - Roethlisberger- 1st
San Francisco 49ers - Garrapolo 2nd - Soon to be replaced by Lance - 1st
Seattle Seahawks - Wilson - 4th***
Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Brady - 6th***
Tennessee Titans - Tannehill - 1st
**Washington Football Team - Heinicke - UFA**

 

78% of the starting (and soon to be) QB's in this league are 1st rounders.

 

Out of the 7 that are not 1st rounders, Brady and Wilson are exceptions that are future Hall of Famers. Dak is above average, Carr and Cousins are about average, and the jury is still out on Hurts.

 

We are the only team starting an UFA at QB.

 

Go through that list and try to pick one QB you would take Heineke over. Maybe the only one is Goff, and possibly Daniel Jones.

 

I love Heinicke's story as much as anyone, and he is the best option we got right now. But as of today, we have a bottom 3 starting QB in the NFL at best.

Keep in mind, 7 of those first rounders aren’t on the team they we’re drafted by which means 7 additional first round QBs that didn’t work out with their original franchise.

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Rogue Jedi

Rogue Jedi

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1 minute ago, PartyPosse said:

Keep in mind, 7 of those first rounders aren’t on the team they we’re drafted by which means 7 additional first round QBs that didn’t work out with their original franchise.

 

Correct, but they have shown enough in their careers to warrant a starting position again, and are not a complete bust by 1st round standards.

 

Again, I point to Goff border lining the "not good" territory of a 1st round QB and possibly the only one I'd take Heinicke over.

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D’Pablo

D’Pablo

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6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Going by this we should immediately offer 2 1st round picks for Jameis Winston, right?

I know nuance is lost in these discussions, but I’ll explain anyway… When a player actually finishes top 10 in QBR for the week, is that not evidence he has the potential (ceiling) to finish in the top 10 by season’s end? By my logic, if Jameis plays as well as he did yesterday through season’s end, yes, we should potentially pony up (he’ll be a free agent, btw).

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mistertim

mistertim

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1 minute ago, D’Pablo said:

I know nuance is lost in these discussions, but I’ll explain anyway… When a player actually finishes top 10 in QBR for the week, is that not evidence he has the potential (ceiling) to finish in the top 10 by season’s end? By my logic, if Jameis plays as well as he did yesterday through season’s end, yes, we should potentially pony up (he’ll be a free agent, btw).

 

No, it's evidence that the QB had a good game. There can be many reasons for that and/or a combination of them. The QB is just really great, the opponent's defense was bad, the opponent had many starters out due to injury, the opponent just had a crappy game, they hadn't game planned for that QB, the QB is mostly mediocre but just had a really great game (it happens).

 

There are guys who are completely mediocre and also suddenly have a stretch of really good games and then flame out. I remember in 2007 when Derek Anderson had a string of good games with the Browns and there were people on this board who were convinced we should offer at least one if not two 1st rounders for him. Same thing with Matt Cassel in 2008.

 

I'm not going to give up two 1st round picks for a dude who has been mediocre and then suddenly lights it up for one or even a string of games. So I'd definitely not be interested in doing anything like that for a guy like Jameis Winston. But if he's a FA then I suppose I wouldn't mind as long as it's not an insane contract.

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PartyPosse

PartyPosse

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17 minutes ago, Rogue Jedi said:

 

Correct, but they have shown enough in their careers to warrant a starting position again, and are not a complete bust by 1st round standards.

 

Again, I point to Goff border lining the "not good" territory of a 1st round QB and possibly the only one I'd take Heinicke over.

You can also look around at all the first rounders still floating in the league not good enough to start. Rosen, Mariota, Colt, Haskins, Lock (Although a high second),Trubisky… 

Just now, mistertim said:

I'm not going to give up two 1st round picks for a dude who has been mediocre and then suddenly lights it up for one or even a string of games. So I'd definitely not be interested in doing anything like that for a guy like Jameis Winston. But if he's a FA then I suppose I wouldn't mind as long as it's not an insane contract.

I would offer up a 3rd minimum for Mariota right now.

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Malapropismic Depository

Malapropismic Depository

Posted
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11 minutes ago, D’Pablo said:

 if Jameis plays as well as he did yesterday through season’s end, yes, we should potentially pony up (he’ll be a free agent, btw).

 

 

Well...clearly....Winston played lights-out football yesterday, because he retains those inspirational messages from his trainer...or does he ?

 

 

 

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Rogue Jedi

Rogue Jedi

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6 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

You can also look around at all the first rounders still floating in the league not good enough to start. Rosen, Mariota, Colt, Haskins, Lock (Although a high second),Trubisky… 

 

Fair, but aside from Colt and Haskins for obvious reasons, Mariota and Trubisky could be considered reasonable competition for Heinicke

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CobraCommander

CobraCommander

Posted
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2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

As much as I like Hein I didn’t really want to have this conversation by halftime week 1. 

I guess it’s better than having it week 4 because Fitzpatrick is struggling to move the ball and score. Everything leading up until the injury suggested that would be the case. But alas here we are and we don’t have to go that route. 

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mistertim

mistertim

Posted
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2 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

I guess it’s better than having it week 4 because Fitzpatrick is struggling to move the ball and score. Everything leading up until the injury suggested that would be the case. But alas here we are and we don’t have to go that route. 

 

You mean based on all 6 of Fitz's passes in his very first game with a new team?

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mistertim

mistertim

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1 minute ago, Florgon79 said:

That and preseason. I know it’s not a lot to go on but just call it a hunch. I’m not even really blaming him. I think a lot of it is scheme and Scott Turners play calling. 

 

Preseason where he also hardly threw any passes.

 

So it's all basically just a "hunch".

 

I'm not saying he was going to light it up or be bad this season. I don't know. I just think anyone saying "Yeah it was obvious that Fitz isn't the guy" based on that small sample size it nuttier than squirrel poo.

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Morneblade

Morneblade

Posted
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2 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

That and preseason. I know it’s not a lot to go on but just call it a hunch. I’m not even really blaming him. I think a lot of it is scheme and Scott Turners play calling. 

 

Fitz looked really flat including the preseason. And anytime Taylor Heinicke comes in, the offense perks up. I'd roll with him, just to see what happens. If he's not the answer (and I can't say, either way) we look for either a FA (Garoppolo might be one) or the draft. First team O w/ Fitz has looked pretty bad out there though.

 

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CobraCommander

CobraCommander

Posted
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6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Preseason where he also hardly threw any passes.

 

So it's all basically just a "hunch".

 

I'm not saying he was going to light it up or be bad this season. I don't know. I just think anyone saying "Yeah it was obvious that Fitz isn't the guy" based on that small sample size it nuttier than squirrel poo.

I’m not saying it was obvious he wasn’t the guy. Just that based on our history with the position, there would be a QB controversy by week 4. It’s our M.O.

 

I will reiterate that I think some of it has to do with Turner and the scheme. A scheme that Taylor seems to be more comfortable in.

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Morneblade

Morneblade

Posted
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4 minutes ago, Drock_VB said:

He’s smart.  I believe he was taking Math courses at ODU before he joined the WFT.   
 

Memory, and being able to make quick decisions is highly underrated IMO .  

 

Finishing his Engineering Degree. Was taking Mathematics in Nature, Number Theory and Discrete Mathematics, Applied Numerical Methods and Partial Differential Equations. So yeah, higher math.

 

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D’Pablo

D’Pablo

Posted
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36 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

No, it's evidence that the QB had a good game. There can be many reasons for that and/or a combination of them. The QB is just really great, the opponent's defense was bad, the opponent had many starters out due to injury, the opponent just had a crappy game, they hadn't game planned for that QB, the QB is mostly mediocre but just had a really great game (it happens).

 

There are guys who are completely mediocre and also suddenly have a stretch of really good games and then flame out. I remember in 2007 when Derek Anderson had a string of good games with the Browns and there were people on this board who were convinced we should offer at least one if not two 1st rounders for him. Same thing with Matt Cassel in 2008.

 

I'm not going to give up two 1st round picks for a dude who has been mediocre and then suddenly lights it up for one or even a string of games. So I'd definitely not be interested in doing anything like that for a guy like Jameis Winston. But if he's a FA then I suppose I wouldn't mind as long as it's not an insane contract.

You’ll have to point me toward the quote where I said Heineke is guaranteed to be a top 10 QB when all is said and done. I’m not contradicting anything you’ve said, but I am not taking a pessimistic view of things, either. A good game is evidence (not a conclusion) that his ceiling (not a certainty) is somewhere in the top 10.

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mistertim

mistertim

Posted
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7 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Fitz looked really flat including the preseason. And anytime Taylor Heinicke comes in, the offense perks up. I'd roll with him, just to see what happens. If he's not the answer (and I can't say, either way) we look for either a FA (Garoppolo might be one) or the draft. First team O w/ Fitz has looked pretty bad out there though.

 

 

No doubt that the offense has perked up, but we also don't necessarily know why that is. Every time he's played it's been a surprised to everyone, including the opposing team, and he's also been the complete opposite of the kind of QB they've been game planning for. He also seems to be a hard working, fiery, and likeable guy who really gives it his all so that helps.

 

So it could just be that, or it could be that he's really good. Or some combination of them. But I want to see him be consistent over multiple games when the other team actually has tape on him before I make any sort of judgement of him one way or the other. 

 

And as far as preseason, let's be honest...it's not like Heinicke really did all that much of note either. Played ok, but nothing amazing. 

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