Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Anselmheifer]

5 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

So Rivera showing some love for Kyle Allen. Can’t say i disagree, He’s no #1 superstar QB in the making but i think he has incredible value to us. 

What did he say about Allen?

[Thinking Skins]

38 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The best situation for us may be:

 

Smith

Allen

Rookie

Heinecke practice squad to start or if he beats out one of the other guys the main roster

I think a lot of this will be based on the PS rules next year. I don't doubt that Scott is looking at potential UDFAs or even Montez as guys who could be groomed for later. But how many spots will we have, will another team want TH? Will we be able to protect him? Etc. There are a lot of questions like that. 

 

But at this time I think we're probably going to go with a lower qb over a top tier one, unless someone like Lance falls to us and they love him. 

[Acworth skins fan]

36 minutes ago, KDawg said:

him retiring gives us dead money and zero value out of it. I’d rather have him in the room and getting something out of it.

If he retires, we are stuck with dead money? From a signing bonus or because of guaranteed money? Clearly I don’t have a clue and don’t want to be ignorant. Could someone walk me through this?

[bowhunter]

I'm of the opinion that Darnold could be picked up for a 3rd. One of his strengths in college was the short/intermediate passing game and a good pocket presence. Yes, he looked bad in NYJ, but he was in a situation that few could thrive. Let Alex go next week, trade a 3rd for Sam and let him and Allen battle it out. We could the add round 1 and 2 talent to MLB, WR, and OT as the picks fell to us.

[Darrell Green Fan]

50 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I agree, although recent weeks has made me concerned about Smith’s durability heading into next season. Maybe his circumstances lead to longer recovery periods for example, no idea really. But I’m less comfortable with him now than I was a month ago.

 

Yeah I kind of agree which is why I was not so sure he would come back, either the team or player decision. But I also agree there is no indication that Alex wants to retire.

 

But just having him on the roster to mentor the rookie in the above scenario will be invaluable, and IMO you don't lose anything when turning to Kyle. In fact he may provide more upside as Alex will only diminish further in a year.  I'm really liking the idea of Lance if they can get him and having him sit for a year or 2, Alex and Kyle should keep the team competitive until Lance is ready should he develop as hoped.  

Edited January 1, 2021 by Darrell Green Fan

[mhd24]

3 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

I'm of the opinion that Darnold could be picked up for a 3rd. One of his strengths in college was the short/intermediate passing game and a good pocket presence. Yes, he looked bad in NYJ, but he was in a situation that few could thrive. Let Alex go next week, trade a 3rd for Sam and let him and Allen battle it out. We could the add round 1 and 2 talent to MLB, WR, and OT as the picks fell to us.

I don't know if Darnold is that great to be honest.  He's not been that good even during the past three weeks.  Go to the Jets boards.  Most don't think he has it.

 

He's pretty mobile, has good character (from what I can tell), but his accuracy isn't great.  

[Burgundy Yoda]

9 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

I'm of the opinion that Darnold could be picked up for a 3rd. One of his strengths in college was the short/intermediate passing game and a good pocket presence. Yes, he looked bad in NYJ, but he was in a situation that few could thrive. Let Alex go next week, trade a 3rd for Sam and let him and Allen battle it out. We could the add round 1 and 2 talent to MLB, WR, and OT as the picks fell to us.

He has ball placement issues. To me, that's a killer for an NFL QB, footwork is pretty awful at times as well. He has the same flaws Dwayne has honestly, I wouldn't put all my eggs in the Sam Darnold basket. 

Edited January 1, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[CommanderInTheRye]

7 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

I don't know if Darnold is that great to be honest.  He's not been that good even during the past three weeks.  Go to the Jets boards.  Most don't think he has it.

 

He's pretty mobile, has good character (from what I can tell), but his accuracy isn't great.  

 

 

With our defense we don’t need great.

 

“Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.”

 

If we can just have solid, consistent, qb play for 16 games, upgrade our receivers with a vet free agent, resign our own key free agents and find a starter or two in the draft we will win 10 to 12 games next year.

 

Darnold, or a veteran qb like him, may have a low ceiling but his floor is high and right now that’s exactly what we need.

[mhd24]

If Indy trades for Wentz, would you go for Rivers as a stopgap?

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/01/01/philip-rivers-i-think-im-really-going-to-want-to-play-again/

[Skinsinparadise]

39 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

What did he say about Allen?

More or less he was questioned if they'd have had a shot of the playoffs if they didn't have Alex.  He said yeah if Kyle was healthy they would citing they have similar abilities. 

[ILikeBilly]

9 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

If Indy trades for Wentz, would you go for Rivers as a stopgap?

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/01/01/philip-rivers-i-think-im-really-going-to-want-to-play-again/

Rivers doesn't play well in wet/cold weather. Living in San Diego, I love him as a QB and team leader.  I don't trust him on a 50 degree day with light rain.

Edited January 1, 2021 by ILikeBilly

[Darrell Green Fan]

23 minutes ago, TrancesWithWolves said:

 

 

With our defense we don’t need great.

 

“Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.”

 

If we can just have solid, consistent, qb play for 16 games, upgrade our receivers with a vet free agent, resign our own key free agents and find a starter or two in the draft we will win 10 to 12 games next year.

 

Darnold, or a veteran qb like him, may have a low ceiling but his floor is high and right now that’s exactly what we need.

 

I guess I'll never understand the love for Darnold.  What has he done to make us believe his floor is high?  He could very well have a very low floor and what we are seeing is who he is.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Off season will be here soon.  I was just listening to Ryan Wilson who is a draft guy yet was touting it would be great if WFT could get Stafford.

 

My fantasy desires are:  Stafford, Z. Wilson, Fields.    I am in the aggressive mode as to my thinking about this.  

 

But much has to play out so we don't know yet who will be on the market and for what.  As for the draft, even though I am rooting for a win on Sunday, a loss could be a game changer as to how to approach the draft especially at QB.  Also no way I'd trade a #1 for a veteran if its a top 10 pick.  If I am picking 19 and later that's a different ball game. 

2 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I guess I'll never understand the love for Darnold.  What has he done to make us believe his floor is high?  He could very well have a very low floor and what we are seeing is who he is.  

 

I liked but didn't love him as USC.    I've seen too many of his stinker games as a QB in the pros to easily block that out of my mind now -- so I got mixed feelings at best about him.  At a minimum, he's a roll of the dice, versus us thinking we are set now at the spot. 

[mhd24]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Off season will be here soon.  I was just listening to Ryan Wilson who is a draft guy yet was touting it would be great if WFT could get Stafford.

 

My fantasy desires are:  Stafford, Z. Wilson, Fields.    I am in the aggressive mode as to my thinking about this.  

 

But much has to play out so we don't know yet who will be on the market and for what.  As for the draft, even though I am rooting for a win on Sunday, a loss could be a game changer as to how to approach the draft especially at QB.  Also no way I'd trade a #1 for a veteran if its a top 10 pick.  If I am picking 19 and later that's a different ball game. 

 

I liked but didn't love him as USC.    I've seen too many of his stinker games as a QB in the pros to easily block that out of my mind now -- so I got mixed feelings at best about him.  At a minimum, he's a roll of the dice, versus us thinking we are set now at the spot. 

Posted this on the draft thread:

 

Going over scenarios, I'm pretty sure the best we can pick is 8th overall (IF WE LOSE).

 

Games of importance for us draft positioning (IF WE LOSE):

Minnesota @ Detroit

Dallas @ New York Giants

New Orleans @ Carolina

Las Vegas @ Denver

 

Root for the bolded teams above.  If all the above happens, Dallas probably gets a lower SOS and picks 7.  I figure Carolina will lose (Saints still have a shot at a bye).  Detroit stinks, but Dalvin Cook is out.  Hopefully Bevell tries to get a win this week.  Hopefully Denver does us a solid.  

 

Best thing is that we can concentrate on rooting for those outcomes since they are earlier in the day.

[burgngold fan]

Really don't understand all the love that Kyle Allen is getting!  I haven't seen anything that impressed me about his game.  Biggest thing that worries me is his arm strength!  Think he is very limited to the kind of plays he can run. 

 

Best we could hope for is around 8-8 seasons.  Is that all we are looking for?  

 

[mhd24]

2 minutes ago, burgngold fan said:

Really don't understand all the love that Kyle Allen is getting!  I haven't seen anything that impressed me about his game.  Biggest thing that worries me is his arm strength!  Think he is very limited to the kind of plays he can run. 

 

Best we could hope for is around 8-8 seasons.  Is that all we are looking for?  

 

 

 

Well remember, our bar was Haskins.  Everyone looks like Peyton Manning compared to him

[burgngold fan]

3 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

Well remember, our bar was Haskins.  Everyone looks like Peyton Manning compared to him

That's what I'm afraid of!  That's setting the bar pretty dam low!!  

[CommanderInTheRye]

47 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I guess I'll never understand the love for Darnold. 

 

 

 

That’s exactly my point, kinda. 😁

 

I have no love for Darnold.

 

My whole thesis is that we don’t need to seek a qb that we love because doing so is simply not a realistic option given where we are likely to draft and the dearth of free agent talent at the position this year.

 

No, my goal is to grab a young lass that may not knock your socks off at first glance but she’ll reliably have hot bacon and eggs ready for you first thing in the morning-  each and every morning.

 

Now whether that is Darnold or not is a fair question but what I described is exactly the kind of player I think we need.

 

We just can’t waste time searching for greatness while we fritter away the affordable (rookie contract) years of our starting d-line.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2021 by TrancesWithWolves

[KDawg]

24 minutes ago, burgngold fan said:

Really don't understand all the love that Kyle Allen is getting!  I haven't seen anything that impressed me about his game.  Biggest thing that worries me is his arm strength!  Think he is very limited to the kind of plays he can run. 

 

Best we could hope for is around 8-8 seasons.  Is that all we are looking for?  

 

I think you’re missing the context.

 

Allen doesn’t really make anyone say, “yes! Our franchise guy! He is going to turn us around!”

 

What people ARE saying is, “yes. Kyle Allen is a capable spot starter/stop gap in the NFL and would be great to have as a backup long term.”

 

Short of a franchise risking move with a big trade and given context of our draft positioning, our plan may not be able to go from F -> A. It may be from F-> C -> A

12 minutes ago, TrancesWithWolves said:

 

 

 

That’s exactly my point, kinda. 😁

 

I have no love for Darnold.

 

My whole thesis is that we don’t need to seek a qb that we love because doing so is simply not a realistic option given where we are likely to draft and the dearth of free agent talent at the position this year.

 

No, my goal is to grab a young lass that may not knock your socks off at first glance but she’ll reliably have hot bacon and eggs ready for you first thing in the morning-  each and every morning.

 

Now whether that is Darnold or not is a fair question but what I described is exactly the kind of player I think we need.

 

We just can’t waste time searching for greatness while we fritter away the affordable (rookie contract) years of our starting d-line.

 

 

 

 

This, to me, is reasoning for keeping Allen/Smith/Heineken instead of trading for a guy like Darnold. We’ve seen them and know they are “okay”. We dump them, trade for Darnold and he’s more of the same it’s just wasted assets.

Edited January 1, 2021 by KDawg

[Darrell Green Fan]

53 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

Posted this on the draft thread:

 

 

Going over scenarios, I'm pretty sure the best we can pick is 8th overall (IF WE LOSE).

 

Games of importance for us draft positioning (IF WE LOSE):

Minnesota @ Detroit

Dallas @ New York Giants

New Orleans @ Carolina

Las Vegas @ Denver

 

Root for the bolded teams above.  If all the above happens, Dallas probably gets a lower SOS and picks 7.  I figure Carolina will lose (Saints still have a shot at a bye).  Detroit stinks, but Dalvin Cook is out.  Hopefully Bevell tries to get a win this week.  Hopefully Denver does us a solid.  

 

Best thing is that we can concentrate on rooting for those outcomes since they are earlier in the day.

 

Thanks for posting all of this. I was going to ask the scenario of who we wanted to lose (Detroit vs Minnesota for example). Of course we won't know the results of our game which would make it moot but it's still fun to have a rooting interest in games.  

[CommanderInTheRye]

14 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

This, to me, is reasoning for keeping Allen/Smith/Heineken instead of trading for a guy like Darnold. We’ve seen them and know they are “okay”. We dump them, trade for Darnold and he’s more of the same it’s just wasted assets.

 

 

Good point KDawg.

 

My unspoken assumption is that Alex will probably not be on the team next year and that if he is we can’t expect him to be available for anything more than a stretch of three to five games. Making serious plans with him as a centerpiece just isn’t a prudent decision.

 

As for Heineke he looked nothing short of spectacular— for 10 minutes in one game. Just not enough of a sample size to make any serious conclusion about his future— at this time. I’d certainly bring him into camp and let him compete for a job. Now if he plays well Sunday we win and then he upsets Tampa in the playoffs all bets are off.

 

That said, I like what I’ve seen so far from Kyle Allen. The non-elite arm strength that leads some to dismiss him as a starter is not a disqualifier for me. He may well be our best alternative at this juncture but we need someone else in the mix.

 

I would be comfortable with a three way training camp battle between Kyle Allen, Heineke, and an acquired vet like Dalton or someone else. Best man wins.

[Stefanskins]

18 hours ago, zskins said:

List of Free Agent QB available next year: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/quarterback/

So who?

I didnt even know Schaub was still in the league!

[CapsSkins]

6 minutes ago, TrancesWithWolves said:

 

 

Good point KDawg.

 

My unspoken assumption is that Alex will probably not be on the team next year and that if he is we can’t expect him to be available for anything more than a stretch of three to five games. Making serious plans with him as a centerpiece just isn’t a prudent decision.

 

As for Heineke he looked nothing short of spectacular— for 10 minutes in one game. Just not enough of a sample size to make any serious conclusion about his future— at this time. I’d certainly bring him into camp and let him compete for a job. Now if he plays well Sunday we win and then he upsets Tampa in the playoffs all bets are off.

 

That said, I like what I’ve seen so far from Kyle Allen. The non-elite arm strength that leads some to dismiss him as a starter is not a disqualifier for me. He may well be our best alternative at this juncture but we need someone else in the mix.

 

I would be comfortable with a three way training camp battle between Kyle Allen, Heineke, and an acquired vet like Dalton or someone else. Best man wins.

 

I'm actually not opposed to platooning QBs either. Alex at 50% availability spelled by Allen/Heinicke/Rookie could give us the best chance to win AND help us develop younger guys. Could be either in-game like the Brees/Hill approach or between games like the FitzMagic/Tua approach. NO and MIA are both unique situations, but frankly, we are also a unique situation: our #1 simply cannot play all 16 games in full but is worth keeping for the time he does play + the mentorship & intangibles. 

[Ball Security]

With Darnold, wouldn’t we have to decide whether or not to pick up his fifth year option before he plays for us?  That would be a big gamble.

[CapsSkins]

Just now, Ball Security said:

With Darnold, wouldn’t we have to decide whether or not to pick up his fifth year option before he plays for us?  That would be a big gamble.

 

I am especially unenthused about Darnold given that we already have Allen and Heinicke.