Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[PartyPosse]

12 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

nd I don't believe I'm cracking the code or telling you anything you don't know, but we are currently at a huge advantage where young, sweat, payne, allen, curl, gibson, t mac etc are all on their rookie contracts.  Those are our stars.  So there is a special window before those rookie contracts expire where we can use remaining cap space to supplement them.  Once they are extended, or even worse forced to walk, there will be less cap space to supplement their talent, and it's hard to expect to be as well rounded as we could potentially be over the next few years. 

Two odds things saved us:

 

1) Haskins the same year as Sweat. Sounds weird, but now Sweat is the only one from that year (well him and Mclaurin) that we have to worry about. Having to pay a franchise QB, which would be nice, an additional 30 million a year from that class would have hurt.

 

2) All of our picks are actually staggered. I also don't necessarily if we need all of Ion, Settle, Payne and Allen. It sounds great to have that kind of depth, but it's also unnecessary. 

 

The point is we're not bogged down by any major contracts now longer than the next year or two. All of our money is literally freed up for when guys like Gibson, Chase, Curl etc look for new deals. Our QB situation, while a real hinderance on the field, is actually a benefit off. We can either get one of the big name vets who's contracts are up in two years (Stafford, Rodgers etc), draft another QB in the first in which we have major control for the next 5 years, or keep Smith and draft someone later while keeping an Allen or someone similar around for a cheap deal. 

 

As i've learned from how teams have circumvented the cap, nothing is impossible if your cap guy can look at things long term as well as short. Right now, there are absolutely NO mistakes contract-wise on this team. You can theoretically say Collins, but really we're only screwed with him until 2022. I can live with that. 

[KillBill26]

7 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Two odds things saved us:

 

1) Haskins the same year as Sweat. Sounds weird, but now Sweat is the only one from that year (well him and Mclaurin) that we have to worry about. Having to pay a franchise QB, which would be nice, an additional 30 million a year from that class would have hurt.

 

2) All of our picks are actually staggered. I also don't necessarily if we need all of Ion, Settle, Payne and Allen. It sounds great to have that kind of depth, but it's also unnecessary. 

 

The point is we're not bogged down by any major contracts now longer than the next year or two. All of our money is literally freed up for when guys like Gibson, Chase, Curl etc look for new deals. Our QB situation, while a real hinderance on the field, is actually a benefit off. We can either get one of the big name vets who's contracts are up in two years (Stafford, Rodgers etc), draft another QB in the first in which we have major control for the next 5 years, or keep Smith and draft someone later while keeping an Allen or someone similar around for a cheap deal. 

 

As i've learned from how teams have circumvented the cap, nothing is impossible if your cap guy can look at things long term as well as short. Right now, there are absolutely NO mistakes contract-wise on this team. You can theoretically say Collins, but really we're only screwed with him until 2022. I can live with that. 

It is nice that our studs are staggered, and I don't see ion or settle extending with us. But if we do extend allen, payne, sweat, young, t mac and curl, then by 2025, we will have a large percentage of the cap filled by a handful of players.  Or worse, they walk and we lose a top talent.  I'm not saying we can't win past 2025, or that cap gurus can't navigate the situation, just that the window we have over the next 5 years gives us a HUGE advantage due to a lot of top talent all on cheap contracts.

[PartyPosse]

2 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

It is nice that our studs are staggered, and I don't see ion or settle extending with us. But if we do extend allen, payne, sweat, young, t mac and curl, then by 2025, we will have a large percentage of the cap filled by a handful of players.  Or worse, they walk and we lose a top talent.  I'm not saying we can't win past 2025, or that cap gurus can't navigate the situation, just that the window we have over the next 5 years gives us a HUGE advantage due to a lot of top talent all on cheap contracts.

It does and it doesn't. The problem is we're for the most part we're talking about 5 or 6 players all playing DT or DE. It would be foolish to try and keep them all as nice as it would be. TBH, If I had to choose between Ion at 10-12 or Allen at 15-16, I'd probably take Ion.

[KillBill26]

6 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

It does and it doesn't. The problem is we're for the most part we're talking about 5 or 6 players all playing DT or DE. It would be foolish to try and keep them all as nice as it would be. TBH, If I had to choose between Ion at 10-12 or Allen at 15-16, I'd probably take Ion.

I hear ya, and maybe settle at 6-7 is better than payne at 10.  Out of the 6 young DL, we aren't paying more than 4.  But we have to bring back sweat and young, and those will be sizable, as well as curl, tmac, etc.  If we do want to keep the party going, we will have to shell out some decent coin in a relatively short period of time.

[Skinsinparadise]

This is from a fan but I think he might be right as for their cap issues but I think trading Ryan would save them just 8 million or so a season because a lot of straight salary in that contract.

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Chump Bailey]

48 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

We can either get one of the big name vets who's contracts are up in two years (Stafford, Rodgers etc), draft another QB in the first in which we have major control for the next 5 years, or keep Smith and draft someone later while keeping an Allen or someone similar around for a cheap deal. 

 

I would push all my chips in on Aaron Rodgers as low a probability there is luring him here. He's that good. And I hate those kinds of pie in the sky type scenarios but in this case I would not hesitate at all. If there's a legit shot at landing someone like him - you go for it IMO.

Edited December 31, 2020 by Chump Bailey

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[PartyPosse]

22 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

I hear ya, and maybe settle at 6-7 is better than payne at 10.  Out of the 6 young DL, we aren't paying more than 4.  But we have to bring back sweat and young, and those will be sizable, as well as curl, tmac, etc.  If we do want to keep the party going, we will have to shell out some decent coin in a relatively short period of time.

I think Sweat, Chase, ion and Payne is the way to go. Two inside and two outside. 

4 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

I would push all my chips in on Aaron Rodgers as low a probability there is luring him here. He's that good. And I hate those kinds of pie in the sky type scenarios but in this case I would not hesitate at all. If there's a legit shot at landing someone like him - you go for it IMO.

He would be the only one for me. Ryan and Matt are great players for my fantasy teams, but I don't see either being the missing link.

[heyholetsgogrant]

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

This is from a fan but I think he might be right as for their cap issues but I think trading Ryan would save them just 8 million or so a season because a lot of straight salary in that contract.

 

 

 

I'm starting to think a lot of these QB's like Ryan, Cousins, Stafford, etc are just not worth it.  How the heck do you build a team on both sides of the ball when you have $25-40 million tied up in a mediocre QB?  I think the league needs to cap QB salary in the next CBA, it might sounds harsh, but more players will get paid more not having all that money tied up with mediocre QB's.

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Lol, sounds like Allen's our starting QB next year.

Edited December 31, 2020 by heyholetsgogrant

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, heyholetsgogrant said:

I'm starting to think a lot of these QB's like Ryan, Cousins, Stafford, etc are just not worth it.  How the heck do you build a team on both sides of the ball when you have $25-40 million tied up in a QB?  

 

The rookie QB is ideal as for the cap.  But yeah plenty of teams are good paying 20 million plus for QBs:  the majority of the current top 10 teams in the league are doing so.

 

The key is you got to do it with the right QB.  Having Matt Ryan cost 40 million against the cap as an example is crazy.   Falcons clearly going all in years back by lowering the cap hit early on and then staggering it big time in the last 3 years of the contract. 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

You can't pay good QBs elite money. You either get an elite QB and you pay him(Mahomes, Rodgers, etc.)or you take a gamble on a guy on a rookie deal.

[TheShredder]

11 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

You can't pay good QBs elite money. You either get an elite QB and you pay him(Mahomes, Rodgers, etc.)or you take a gamble on a guy on a rookie deal.

Here it's a confirmed gamble.

 

[CapsSkins]

15 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

You can't pay good QBs elite money. You either get an elite QB and you pay him(Mahomes, Rodgers, etc.)or you take a gamble on a guy on a rookie deal.

 

So play this forward. You draft a QB, let's say he turns into the next Cousins - good but not elite. You trading him away or letting him walk in FA after his rookie deal? How do you handle

 

[TradeTheBeal!]

I’ll be scouting Kyle Trask tonight.

[CommanderInTheRye]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

This is from a fan but I think he might be right as for their cap issues but I think trading Ryan would save them just 8 million or so a season because a lot of straight salary in that contract.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let’s talk trade heh heh heh...

 

 

[BurgundyBooger]

11 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

So play this forward. You draft a QB, let's say he turns into the next Cousins - good but not elite. You trading him away or letting him walk in FA after his rookie deal? How do you handle

 

 

Personally, I would keep the 'good' QB, even if it means slightly overcompensating him, and improve all the pieces around him, then pray the QB is at least competent enough to sufficiently utilize a talented supporting cast. A good QB can stall a talented team, that's true, but a bad or even an average one can debilitate a team. Plenty of just good QBs have won a Super Bowl, and it's usually with a good defense and strong coaching, both of which I'm confident we already have.

Edited December 31, 2020 by BurgundyBooger

[Thinking Skins]

It's so weird to see talk about a window when we were 3-13 last year. Even if we get to 7-9,i think that's about where we are as a team. I could easily see if going into next year with Allen, Hein and a rookie or lower profile FA at QB. What gets me is that the guys who have looked best in this offense are guys above already known it. It kinda reminds me of Ramsey with Spurrier when Danny and Shane were Steves favorite guys because they knew what he wanted. 

 

It also isn't lost on me that both these guys are udfa guys who Turner liked enough to go to their pro days. So I'd be watching him scouting this off-season and, in honestly more comfortable with him than Danny or Kyle. 

[CapsSkins]

13 minutes ago, BurgundyBooger said:

 

Personally, I would keep the 'good' QB, even if it means slightly overcompensating him, and improve all the pieces around him, then pray the QB is at least competent enough to sufficiently utilize a talented supporting cast. A good QB can stall a talented team, that's true, but a bad or even an average one can debilitate a team. Plenty of just good QBs have won a Super Bowl, and it's usually with a good defense and strong coaching, both of which I'm confident we already have.

 

Agreed. Sure in theory the boom or bust approach makes sense but in practice you work with what you got. It just means you build the rest of your team differently. You don't throw away a Carr-level QB with nobody to replace him just because you gotta pay him $35M when his rookie deal is up. That's just the cost of doing business for competent QB play.

[KDawg]

30 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

I’ll be scouting Kyle Trask tonight.

How’s that going for you so far? Yeesh.

[TradeTheBeal!]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

How’s that going for you so far? Yeesh.

I put the kiss of death on him.

[KDawg]

Just now, TryTheBeal! said:

I put the kiss of death on him.

In your defense, I never thought he was that good. He’s an okay QB and will likely bounce back a bit here. 
 

But I have him as QB10

[NoCalMike]

If Rivera is talking up Kyle Allen combined with all the reports that he wants Alex Smith back too, it makes me assume they are going to the draft for a QB, someone in the mid to later rounds that can sit at the #3 spot and learn while in relative obscurity until it is time to take the reigns.  

 

If that is the case, then so be it, but then the approach should be to go out and get as many play makers as you can for Allen & Smith because they are not the "offense on my shoulders" caliber of QB's.  That isn't a knock, because realistically there are only about 5ish of that kind of QB in the NFL anyway, it just means the front office needs to give the offense more weapons.  

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

If Rivera is talking up Kyle Allen combined with all the reports that he wants Alex Smith back too, it makes me assume they are going to the draft for a QB, someone in the mid to later rounds that can sit at the #3 spot and learn while in relative obscurity until it is time to take the reigns.  

 

If that is the case, then so be it, but then the approach should be to go out and get as many play makers as you can for Allen & Smith because they are not the "offense on my shoulders" caliber of QB's.  That isn't a knock, because realistically there are only about 5ish of that kind of QB in the NFL anyway, it just means the front office needs to give the offense more weapons.  

I wouldn’t bet against Harris or Etienne in the first if they go that route and a rookie they covet isn’t on the board. 
 

But there’s a lot of time. CB may be considered. LB.

8 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

I put the kiss of death on him.

 

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

In your defense, I never thought he was that good. He’s an okay QB and will likely bounce back a bit here. 
 

But I have him as QB10

I lied.

[TradeTheBeal!]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

In your defense, I never thought he was that good. He’s an okay QB and will likely bounce back a bit here. 
 

But I have him as QB10

So your saying we can get him in the 4th?

[KDawg]

Just now, TryTheBeal! said:

So your saying we can get him in the 4th?

At this rate he may be available in the 7th.

 

Mullens may need to save him from himself.