Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[kingdaddy]

2 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

I think people are forgetting that the offense looked its best with Kyle Allen this season, and that he was specifically brought here via trade.  There's no way he isn't on the roster as the presumptive starter (assuming Smith gets cut or retires) going into next year.  That doesn't mean they don't draft a guy, but Rivera strikes me as more of a less splash more familiarity type of coach/GM.  

I hope you're right about Allen being on the roster next year but I beleive there is very much a possibility he won't be on this roster. I believe he's a free agent, we could sign another vet free agent where Kyle has better options to play elsewhere? I fully expect him back and hope the coaches bring him back but if we grab another vet isn't that a sign to Kyle that we are sold on him? From what I see he's an exclusive rights free agent for 2021....I do agree with you that RR is gonna want a guy he knows he can count on as his QB and I think Kyle fits that bill but I'm also on record as believing that RR will go after Cam Newton. I hope I'm wrong but I'm reading the tea leaves.

[mhd24]

1 minute ago, kingdaddy said:

I hope you're right about Allen being on the roster next year but I beleive there is very much a possibility he won't be on this roster. I believe he's a free agent, we could sign another vet free agent where Kyle has better options to play elsewhere? I fully expect him back and hope the coaches bring him back but if we grab another vet isn't that a sign to Kyle that we are sold on him? From what I see he's an exclusive rights free agent for 2021....I do agree with you that RR is gonna want a guy he knows he can count on as his QB and I think Kyle fits that bill but I'm also on record as believing that RR will go after Cam Newton. I hope I'm wrong but I'm reading the tea leaves.

Allen is an exclusive rights FA.  He’s not going anywhere

[Sellersfan]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

In that lens I agree. But I think it’s dangerous to say that it wasn’t a failure. It was. But not because the draft pick didn’t pan out. Because the guy no one apparently wanted was selected by the owner.

I will give you that it was a massive failure to allow the owner to pick the QB based on the guy going to the same school as the owners son. However, Haskins fooled many draft “pundits” and most mock drafts had him as a first round pick, with some having him top 10. Everyone done messed up grading him. Jay had a lot of short comings but he could evaluate QB talent.

[Est.1974]

7 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Just heard where it is highly unlikely that Wentz is dealt before June 1st due to his salary and the cap hit the Eagles would take. If they trade him prior to that date it's a 32 mil cap hit for them with the partner taking on that salary. Someone would have to be desperate or in love with him to do that. The thinking here in Philly is that the Eagles will likely play 2021 with both Wentz and Hurts on the roster. We'll see.

Sal Palantonio reported this.

Post June1st trade the 2021 cap hit drops to 9m with the remainder getting pushed out to 2022. I think that is very possible. 
 

I’m sure you can agree the trade much earlier and just designate it as a post 1st June move for cap purposes. Much like you can with cuts, releases.

[DefinitelyMaybe]

If we lose week 17, do we have a realistic shot at drafting Zach Wilson?

Would love it, seems to fit the Rivera / Turner mould of a solid passer than has got a lot of movement to him, perfect for us

[Est.1974]

13 minutes ago, DefinitelyMaybe said:

If we lose week 17, do we have a realistic shot at drafting Zach Wilson?

Would love it, seems to fit the Rivera / Turner mould of a solid passer than has got a lot of movement to him, perfect for us

Definitely, well maybe.

[Skinsinparadise]

Matthew Stafford or Carson Wentz to the Colts

General manager Chris Ballard and the Indianapolis Colts have been deliberate with their post-Andrew Luck roster construction. They never reached to replace Luck, opting for one-year experiments with Jacoby Brissett and Philip Rivers while stocking both sides of the ball with talent and trading a first-round pick to the 49ers for defensive anchor DeForest Buckner.

The Colts can choose to run it back with Rivers. But the long-term answer at quarterback might finally await them.

"I think they signed Philip Rivers to one year for a reason -- they saw it as a stopgap," said an AFC exec of Rivers, who has passed for 4,005 yards with 23 touchdowns and 10 interceptions. "He can still play, but mobility is an issue. They've been pretty methodical and waiting for the right time to strike. This could be the time [at quarterback]."

Enter Stafford, whose trade viability has never felt more palpable after 12 years in Detroit.

 

With the Lions set to hire the fourth coach during Stafford's tenure, people in the building are openly wondering whether Stafford just doesn't have another rebuild in him. The Lions are restructuring, as new chair/owner Sheila Ford Hamp seeks to hire a new coach and general manager after firing Matt Patricia and Bob Quinn.

They tried. It hasn't worked. Maybe the new coach and general manager will think otherwise.

But there's plenty of value in a 32-year-old widely considered a top-12 quarterback who comes cheaper than most starters. Stafford's $34.95 million cap hit in 2021 is misleading. A $9 base million is the only money due next season, and the Colts are slated to have $57.2 million in cap space. That's good value for a high-level player who has 44,816 career yards, 279 touchdowns and 143 interceptions.

 

Wentz's future is cloudier. As we broke down earlier this month, the dead money attached to Wentz's contract hurts the Eagles, whether they trade or keep him. But some executives believe Philadelphia will at least try, given the experiment with rookie second-round pick Jalen Hurts has gone relatively well.

Colts coach Frank Reich's presence looms large here. Wentz threw 49 touchdown passes and 21 picks with Reich as his offensive coordinator in Philly from 2016 to '17, and word is the two connected on a personal level.

 

"Maybe [Wentz] would rework his deal in order to facilitate a deal," an NFC exec said. "At this point, he might simply want out."

Another AFC exec believes the Eagles would be making a mistake not trying to convince Wentz they can salvage the relationship.

"I'm not convinced of the [Hurts] situation just yet," the AFC exec said. "Bailing on a franchise quarterback after one bad year is a bad look. Even really good quarterbacks have down times."

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/30614517/nfl-execs-make-predictions-2021-matthew-stafford-carson-wentz-sam-darnold-move

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, DefinitelyMaybe said:

If we lose week 17, do we have a realistic shot at drafting Zach Wilson?

Would love it, seems to fit the Rivera / Turner mould of a solid passer than has got a lot of movement to him, perfect for us

 

We'd be in closer range to trading up for him.  At 19 or later the price would likely be ridiculous to trade up. 

 

 

 

 

 

On another note, I don't know if that dude below is an insider (meaning TM) but I did see he worked at ESPN.  On Hard Knocks, Winston to me seemed a bit immature.  Factoring that and his college incident and pro incident with Uber, I doubt he's Rivera's kind of QB, too. 

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[DJHJR86]

12 hours ago, mistertim said:

But that's really not saying much and Allen is still a completely mediocre QB. He was mediocre in Carolina and he was mediocre in his time playing here. Could he potentially come out and suddenly become the next Brady? I suppose. How likely is it though? I think he's a quality backup kind of guy. 

 

Assuming that a UDFA backup is our future isn't exactly an A+ strategy.

 

Allen has only started 16 games.  He doesn't need to become the next Brady.  He could become the next Kirk.  With a solid running game and shut down defense, that may be all we need.  And this isn't even assuming that Allen is "our future".  It's just saying that the safe bet is to have him on the roster going into next season.  

 

Allen's QBR for his four starts was 73.5.  Dwayne's was 30.7.  Alex Smith's is 35.7.  Allen was far from medicore during his starts in comparison to what we've had.  

[Skinsinparadise]

I wouldn't go far as they go here about this draft having little depth at QB.  But I do agree with their point that you have a better shot at finding that dude the higher you draft -- and it somewhat stuns me that I took my share of arrows by some for having the take that it is easier to find a QB the higher you draft but lol that was months ago when the topic was relevant which it isn't now.😀 

 

 

 

The reality is, though, first-round quarterbacks naturally, have a better chance of turning into franchise passers than mid-to-late round picks. That doesn't mean that every first-round QB will turn out to be a star. In fact, lately, only about half of recent first-round quarterbacks have panned out.

 

If Washington wins on Sunday, it wins the NFC East and hosts a playoff game. While that would be a remarkable accomplishment in Ron Rivera's first season, it would significantly hurt their draft position. A playoff berth would mean the best draft choice Washington could have in 2021 is 19th overall, and that's only if they're bounced in the first round.

 

Picking 19th would significantly hurt Washington's quest to finding a quarterback. Why? Because the 2021 quarterback class is top-heavy with little depth.

 

Clemson's Trevor Lawrence can be penciled into the No. 1 pick right now, with Ohio State star Justin Fields likely to follow him at No. 2. Two other quarterbacks, North Dakota State's Trey Lance and BYU's Zach Wilson, are expected to be first-round picks, with both likely off the board by the time Washington would select at No. 19.

 

If all four of the so-called 'Tier 1 passers' are off the board when Washington chooses in the first round -- and if the team is set on drafting a quarterback with its first selection -- they will have to reach for one. Florida's Kyle Trask or Alabama's Mac Jones come to mind, but both of those signal-callers come with question marks for NFL scouts. There's a reason both are unlikely to hear their names called until Day 2 of the draft.

 

Taking Trask, Jones or another quarterback in the second or third rounds wouldn't be a bad move for Washington. That's a worthy investment. But using their first-round pick on one of them would be a pretty big reach, considering the number of talented players at other positions who would still be on the board, and the many holes Washington still has on its roster. It's clear now that's exactly what the team did with Haskins in 2019, taking a lesser talent too high. It's pretty clear that not even the coaching staff, then led by Jay Gruden, was on board with that pick. That mistake can't be replicated. 

 

Things get interesting if Washington loses to Philadelphia, as the team could pick as high as ninth should a couple of other things happen in Week 17. If picking in that range, there's a solid chance at least one of Fields, Lance or Wilson will still be available should they want to go that route.

Of course, the draft isn't the only way to find a starting quarterback. In each of the last three years, Washington has made an offseason acquisition via trade (Alex Smith in 2018, Case Keenum in 2019, Kyle Allen in 2020). Smith and Allen remain with the team. Smith is the unquestioned starter when healthy.

However, Smith is 36 years old. And although he's shown some promise this season, finding his eventual successor should be one of the team's biggest priorities this offseason. Washington could keep Smith and re-sign Allen for one season, but that is more of a temporary solution than a long-term one.

 

Two veteran quarterbacks that could be on the trade market this offseason are Detroit's Matthew Stafford and Atlanta's Matt Ryan. Both are proven veterans on bad teams and both organizations will have a new head coach and general manager in 2021. There's certainly a chance both teams blow it up this offseason to start a complete rebuild, meaning Stafford and Ryan could be looking for new teams in 2021.

 

Yet, if Washington wanted to acquire either of those quarterbacks, it would likely need to give up significant draft capital. Washington has plenty of young pieces but is not nearly close enough to contending for a Super Bowl that it can afford to mortgage the future to trade for one of those passers.

All of this goes before even mentioning the contract situation either veteran would come with. Stafford has nearly a $35 million cap hit next season, while Ryan has $40 million and $41 million cap hits over the next two seasons. Taking on either Stafford or Ryan's contracts would put a significant dent in Washington's cap space, especially if it keeps Smith on the roster in 2021.

 

Washington could always look to free agency to sign a quarterback, but franchise quarterbacks almost never hit the open market. By the slimmest of chances Prescott does, Washington should pounce, but other than the Dallas star, the free agent market is weak in 2021. Mitchell Trubisky, Andy Dalton, Cam Newton and Jameis Winston all are set to hit free agency, but none seem like viable franchise quarterbacks at this stage in their careers.

Considering all these factors, there's no clear path for Washington to find its next quarterback of the future. In fact, the answer to who that is might not be known for another year -- or longer.

 

At this point, it might take some luck.

But, as the team hopes to find a long-term solution at the sport's most prominent position that has eluded the franchise for almost 30 years, it might be better to be lucky than good.

 

11 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Allen has only started 16 games.  He doesn't need to become the next Brady.  He could become the next Kirk.  With a solid running game and shut down defense, that may be all we need.  And this isn't even assuming that Allen is "our future".  It's just saying that the safe bet is to have him on the roster going into next season.  

 

Allen's QBR for his four starts was 73.5.  Dwayne's was 30.7.  Alex Smith's is 35.7.  Allen was far from medicore during his starts in comparison to what we've had.  

 

I am ok with Allen as the backup but I am not banking on him as being the next guy.   I do think he's capable of beating some of the FAs being mentioned here like Brissett for the starting job. 

Edited December 30, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Bears QB Mitch Trubisky’s last four games: 89-of-123, 1,001 yards, seven touchdowns, two interceptions, 108.5 rating. And Chicago is 3–1 in those games. The numbers, in fact, hold up favorably against his draft classmate Patrick Mahomes’s (99-of-165, 1,243 yards, 8 touchdowns, 4 INTs, 89.53 rating) over the same stretch.

 

Now, no one is saying Trubisky is on the same planet as Mahomes. He isn’t. But there’s definitely something to dive into here.

Really, after asking around, I was able to gather a few things. First and foremost, Trubisky is playing with more confidence, which is at least partially a result of Nagy’s overhauled coaching staff learning better what Trubisky is best at, and then playing to those strengths. Second, the offensive line is playing better, and the run game has taken a big step forward as a result. Third, that’s unlocked the play-action game, and more movement concepts that go back to the whole idea of calling the offense to what Trubisky does well.

Do I think this means the Bears are going into 2021 with Trubisky as their starter? No. But it’s fair to acknowledge improvement here, and that Trubisky still has some sort of future as an NFL quarterback.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/12/28/monday-afternoon-quarterback-dwayne-haskins-cut

[Darrell Green Fan]

12 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

I hope you're right about Allen being on the roster next year but I beleive there is very much a possibility he won't be on this roster. I believe he's a free agent, we could sign another vet free agent where Kyle has better options to play elsewhere? I fully expect him back and hope the coaches bring him back but if we grab another vet isn't that a sign to Kyle that we are sold on him? From what I see he's an exclusive rights free agent for 2021....I do agree with you that RR is gonna want a guy he knows he can count on as his QB and I think Kyle fits that bill but I'm also on record as believing that RR will go after Cam Newton. I hope I'm wrong but I'm reading the tea leaves.

 

Oh I think he'll be back.  He's familiar with the system and Washington probably offers him the best opportunity to compete for starting position.  I heard yesterday if they cut Alex Smith that combined with Dwayne's dead cap money was something like 14 or 15 million in dead cap space. That's a lot for players who weren't on the team, hard to believe they could put that with the cost of a free agent vet quarterback.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Speculation about Trubisky makes me uncomfortable.

[Darrell Green Fan]

1 minute ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Speculation about Trubisky makes me uncomfortable.

Yeah I'm not going by a four game sample size, I prefer to look at the bigger picture and he has been flat out bad for years now. Even during this 4 game stretch I saw him throw a Dwayne like pick into massive traffic in the end zone on Sunday

[Commander -JB-]

Trubisky id take him in a heartbeat.  29-20 career record & much much much better than Haskins or a one legged Alex Smith next year.  With this defense he could really help us become legit.  

[TradeTheBeal!]

4 minutes ago, -JB- said:

Trubisky id take him in a heartbeat.  29-20 career record & much much much better than Haskins or a one legged Alex Smith next year.  With this defense he could really help us become legit.  

STRONG 9-7 ENERGY!

[KDawg]

15 minutes ago, -JB- said:

Trubisky id take him in a heartbeat.  29-20 career record & much much much better than Haskins or a one legged Alex Smith next year.  With this defense he could really help us become legit.  

He won’t inspire confidence in the team.

 

The team needs a franchise QB or a steady eddy stop gap type. Someone that the players believe in.

 

I think Fitz fits that. 
 

Winston doesn’t. 
 

Trubisky doesn’t.
 

Stafford does. Smith does. Kyle Allen being here already could. ****, Heinicke could if he starts and wins Sunday.

 

This team right now needs a steady quarterback.

 

The problem with Heineken and Allen and Smith are injury history. Stafford the worry is the injuries catch up. 

I don’t know who the guy is and who is available at the moment to be honest. But the ticket isn’t Mitch Trubisky who is too inconsistent to be believed in.

[TheGoodBits]

14 minutes ago, -JB- said:

Trubisky id take him in a heartbeat.  29-20 career record & much much much better than Haskins or a one legged Alex Smith next year.  With this defense he could really help us become legit.  

Basically any QB allowed to walk in FA is going to be nothing more than a stopgap. Trubisky at least some *some* upside given his relatively young age. 

———————

Winston is a hard pass for me. Just doesn’t fit what we need in a QB. We don’t need someone to throw for 5,000 yards and 40 TDs. We need someone who will take care of the ball and not lose us games. We need Alex Smith but younger and with two good legs. 

[mhd24]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

He won’t inspire confidence in the team.

 

The team needs a franchise QB or a steady eddy stop gap type. Someone that the players believe in.

 

I think Fitz fits that. 
 

Winston doesn’t. 
 

Trubisky doesn’t.
 

Stafford does. Smith does. Kyle Allen being here already could. ****, Heinicke could if he starts and wins Sunday.

 

This team right now needs a steady quarterback.

 

The problem with Heineken and Allen and Smith are injury history. Stafford the worry is the injuries catch up. 

I don’t know who the guy is and who is available at the moment to be honest. But the ticket isn’t Mitch Trubisky who is too inconsistent to be believed in.

 

Yeah, you can tell the team had ZERO confidence/juice whenever Haskins played.  The second Heineke comes in, they started playing better.

 

 

Dalton is a FA.  He's not horrible.  Just needs protection.  He's still got a good arm.  

 

 

The weird thing is that if we resigned Keenum, we probably win the division this year going away LOL.

Edited December 30, 2020 by mhd24

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Allen has only started 16 games.  He doesn't need to become the next Brady.  He could become the next Kirk.  With a solid running game and shut down defense, that may be all we need.  And this isn't even assuming that Allen is "our future".  It's just saying that the safe bet is to have him on the roster going into next season.  

 

Allen's QBR for his four starts was 73.5.  Dwayne's was 30.7.  Alex Smith's is 35.7.  Allen was far from medicore during his starts in comparison to what we've had.  

 

Yes and a Geo Metro is far superior to a moped with flat tires. That doesn't mean you're likely to win races with it consistently.

 

Sticking with Allen is basically saying "We're just accepting that our offense is likely going to be mediocre and we're hoping our defense will be good enough to propel us to wins if our QB doesn't make too many mistakes".

 

That's a formula for possibly sneaking into the playoffs once or twice but not for being a consistent contender. 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yes and a Geo Metro is far superior to a moped with flat tires. That doesn't mean you're likely to win races with it consistently.

 

Sticking with Allen is basically saying "We're just accepting that our offense is likely going to be mediocre and we're hoping our defense will be good enough to propel us to wins if our QB doesn't make too many mistakes".

 

That's a formula for possibly sneaking into the playoffs once or twice but not for being a consistent contender. 

Giving up assets for a QB when you need those assets to build the roster to playoff capable in a normal year isn’t really a recipe for being a consistent contender, either.

 

We chose a DE at 2 last year. We decided we were going to put our eggs in the D basket. Now you have to get a steady QB, give him another receiving weapon and a bellcow back and some OL depth and I think the offense is very much improved with Smith and/or Allen.

 

If that’s the case, though, we need a young rookie in the wings for 2022.

[mistertim]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Giving up assets for a QB when you need those assets to build the roster to playoff capable in a normal year isn’t really a recipe for being a consistent contender, either.

 

We chose a DE at 2 last year. We decided we were going to put our eggs in the D basket. Now you have to get a steady QB, give him another receiving weapon and a bellcow back and some OL depth and I think the offense is very much improved with Smith and/or Allen.

 

If that’s the case, though, we need a young rookie in the wings for 2022.

 

I don't disagree with this, and I wasn't saying that I'd necessarily be against keeping Allen as a quick stopgap. But I think that anyone believing he's the future of the team and the QB position is misguided. He's not a bad QB, but he's certainly nothing special, and the teams that are contenders year in and year out over extended periods of time have good franchise QBs.

 

We're in agreement about giving up the farm for a QB, whether it's in the draft or via a trade. I don't want to overpay either. We also agree that even if we roll with Smith and/or Allen this coming season, we want a young guy to prime for action in 2022. 

 

I just don't want us to settle for mediocrity on our offense simply because we have a really good defense. 

[DJHJR86]

22 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yes and a Geo Metro is far superior to a moped with flat tires. That doesn't mean you're likely to win races with it consistently.

 

Sticking with Allen is basically saying "We're just accepting that our offense is likely going to be mediocre and we're hoping our defense will be good enough to propel us to wins if our QB doesn't make too many mistakes".

 

That's a formula for possibly sneaking into the playoffs once or twice but not for being a consistent contender. 

 

It's the Alex Smith special.  

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I don't disagree with this, and I wasn't saying that I'd necessarily be against keeping Allen as a quick stopgap. But I think that anyone believing he's the future of the team and the QB position is misguided. He's not a bad QB, but he's certainly nothing special, and the teams that are contenders year in and year out over extended periods of time have good franchise QBs.

 

We're in agreement about giving up the farm for a QB, whether it's in the draft or via a trade. I don't want to overpay either. We also agree that even if we roll with Smith and/or Allen this coming season, we want a young guy to prime for action in 2022. 

 

I just don't want us to settle for mediocrity on our offense simply because we have a really good defense. 

 

The problem is that this is a give or take league. You rarely are able to have it all. 

[Koolblue13]

Our interior line are maulers in the run game and just getting better. Tannahill was a bust as much as Trubinsky or Minshew, until he got Henry running from behind him.