Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[NoCalMike]

What if the 49ers release Jimmy G?  Now personally, I don't think this offense has enough speed in their playmakers to facilitate Jimmy G's style of play, but if they were able to add a bunch of speed and allow Jimmy G to play in that WCO short quick time-based style of passing offense? 

[TradeTheBeal!]

12 minutes ago, KDawg said:

At this rate he may be available in the 7th.

 

Mullens may need to save him from himself.

Enact the Brennan Protocols!

[Skin'emAlive]

I’ve always like Matty Ice. He is a legit mvp caliber qb, and earned his pay day. If we still had McVay here he would be a phenomenal trade target. Turner’s offense asks for a bit more mobility. So I’m not sure how he would gel. But if all the options, I think he’s the most reliable and driven. 

[CTskin]

Alex is a man amongst men, I truly admire him, but if I was the FO this off-season I’d be trying my damnest to convince his wife to convince him to retire. That contract is a huge problem. 
 

On the other line I’d be backing up the brinks truck for dak the second he hits the market.

 

this will sound like crazy, homer talk, and it very well may be, but I truly believe we’re in a contract/talent sweet spot (outside of smith). This D is top 5 as it stands and that’s with a turnover machine/3-and-out/terrible ToP offense. Can you imagine if this offense could control the clock, put up points and take a lead, a big lead, and allow the deadly front 7 to pin their ears back...

you give terry, AG, Thomas, an actual threat at qb. Pair that offense with a great defense. Guys, that’s the recipe...

[VaK9Trainer]

10 minutes ago, CTskin said:

Alex is a man amongst men, I truly admire him, but if I was the FO this off-season I’d be trying my damnest to convince his wife to convince him to retire. That contract is a huge problem. 
 

On the other line I’d be backing up the brinks truck for dak the second he hits the market.

 

this will sound like crazy, homer talk, and it very well may be, but I truly believe we’re in a contract/talent sweet spot (outside of smith). This D is top 5 as it stands and that’s with a turnover machine/3-and-out/terrible ToP offense. Can you imagine if this offense could control the clock, put up points and take a lead, a big lead, and allow the deadly front 7 to pin their ears back...

you give terry, AG, Thomas, an actual threat at qb. Pair that offense with a great defense. Guys, that’s the recipe...

 

Dak is a good QB, no doubt, but he was asking for 45-50 mil last year before Dallas slapped him with the tag. You just cannot pay any one player that kind of money and be able to build a team around him.  Not going to happen!!

[VaK9Trainer]

The guy nobody is talking about that I want is Mac Jones from Alabama. I've been watching a lot of him and he has a very Tom Brady-esqe style of play. And before someone laughs at me, NO, I didn't say he is as good as Brady.  What I am saying is that there's just something about him that is special. VERY quick release, seems to read the field well, good pocket presence and has a cannon for an arm. If we're drafting a QB, he's my pick. 

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, VaK9Trainer said:

The guy nobody is talking about that I want is Mac Jones from Alabama. I've been watching a lot of him and he has a very Tom Brady-esqe style of play. And before someone laughs at me, NO, I didn't say he is as good as Brady.  What I am saying is that there's just something about him that is special. VERY quick release, seems to read the field well, good pocket presence and has a cannon for an arm. If we're drafting a QB, he's my pick. 

 

Plenty of talk on Mac Jones especially from me.  I like him, don't love him. 

 

My take is:  I don't agree with "special" and cannon for an arm.  But I do think he has decent/good albeit not great arm strength.  He throws a nice deep ball with touch/arc.  He isn't that mobile but has quick feet in the pocket.  He makes good decisions.  He has such a killer though supporting cast that its not easy to separate that from his play.   I'd be cool with Jones if he falls to our pick if our scouting staff likes him.

 

I also like reading that Mac is a maniac worker.   Bruce Arians, Mike Shanahan and Joe Gibbs have stressed in different interviews that work ethic is the be all and end all.  So considering what happened with Haskins I am going to study up on that part as to these QBs hard.

 

intangibles, intangibles, intangibles.  😀

 

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

Unquestionably, one of the top “traits” for a young prospect that cannot really be taught is work ethic. We’ve seen a lack of work ethic drive many young quarterbacks out of the league from guys like Ryan Leaf to Jamarcus Russell, and more recently players like Paxton Lynch.

If you don’t want it, you’re not going to last long. Plain and simple.

It’s great to hear someone who has spent time with NFL clubs talk about Jones (and Smith) in this kind of way. There is arguably no higher compliment a quarterback could be paid than for his coordinator to say at a young age, he reminds him of NFL players when it comes to preparation.

What does that mean?

 

It means that Jones is someone who pays attention to small details and doesn’t forsake them. He undoubtedly is a film junky who studies himself, the opponent, and any tendency he can to be the best player he can be.

It’s been evident on the field this year for Jones that his preparation is outstanding. The Crimson Tide offense hasn’t skipped a beat since he took over for the injured Tua Tagovailoa last year, and even though physically Jones is not the most imposing or impressive prospect, he has a number of traits NFL teams might find to be first-round worthy.

Namely, preparation and accuracy.

The big questions for Jones at the next level will be how his arm strength translates and if he will be able to succeed with more pressure coming at him in the pros than he has dealt with in college.

There are definitely fair criticisms of Jones’ game at this point, but NFL teams won’t have to lose sleep over investing a high selection in him, wondering if he’s going to make them look bad from a work ethic standpoint.

 

https://nflmocks.com/2020/12/30/mac-jones-compliment-steve-sarkisian/

[Malapropismic Depository]

All of the above.

If Smith retires or regresses, sign Fitzpatrick as your veteran guy. Then draft a QB as high as you can, without reaching or trading away too much,  Maybe a mid-rounder on Ian Book. (He plays New Year's Day against #1 Alabama. Must watch) Then bring back Heiny as your 3rd guy. And maybe even Montez. Have them all compete for the Game 1 Starter.

Edited December 31, 2020 by Malapropismic Depository

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Plenty of talk on Mac Jones especially from me.  I like him, don't love him. 

 

My take is:  I don't agree with "special" and cannon for an arm.  But I do think he has decent/good albeit not great arm strength.  He throws a nice deep ball with touch/arc.  He isn't that mobile but has quick feet in the pocket.  He makes good decisions.  He has such a killer though supporting cast that its not easy to separate that from his play.   I'd be cool with Jones if he falls to our pick if our scouting staff likes him.

 

I also like reading that Mac is a maniac worker.   Bruce Arians, Mike Shanahan and Joe Gibbs have stressed in different interviews that work ethic is the be all and end all.  So considering what happened with Haskins I am going to study up on that part as to these QBs hard.

 

intangibles, intangibles, intangibles.  😀

I love the guy!  If we were fortunate to get him in the 2nd after drafting LOT Leatherwood with our 1st, I'd be very happy! 

[Sellersfan]

1 hour ago, RWJ said:

I love the guy!  If we were fortunate to get him in the 2nd after drafting LOT Leatherwood with our 1st, I'd be very happy! 

Unfortunately I think Mac Jones is going in round 1. I just hope we can stay at 19 and he falls to us. I worry about Det/Denver/SF/NE grabbing him after Lawrence,Wilson,Fields,and Lance are gone.

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, Sellersfan said:

Unfortunately I think Mac Jones is going in round 1. I just hope we can stay at 19 and he falls to us. I worry about Det/Denver/SF/NE grabbing him after Lawrence,Wilson,Fields,and Lance are gone.

I think he slides to Rd. 2 but if we knew he wouldn't make it past the 1st Rd., I'd trade down and grab him in the lower part of Rd. 1.  

[Koolblue13]

12 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I think our D is a little bit overrated right now. Its a good D but still gets gashed in the run too often and until recently was getting lit up by every good QB it faced. With that said, they have tremendous upside and there are resources we can allocate to make it even better. Imagine signing Justin Simmons from the Broncos to play FS and/or Lavonte David from the Bucs to play MLB.

 

That's why I'd rather draft a QB. Get a good one on a rookie deal for 4-5 years and just stack the team around him.

I'd love to sign Simmons at FS and either David or Mosley at MLB. Resign Darby and just completely double down on our defense.

 

I'd also try and trade our Second for Darnold preFA and if they don't buy, I'm waiting until their pick in the draft to see if they go QB.

 

Barber has done well on Offense, but he is the clearly needed upgrade. Harris or one of the UNC backs would be the defenses best friend. 

[Koolblue13]

4 hours ago, RWJ said:

I think he slides to Rd. 2 but if we knew he wouldn't make it past the 1st Rd., I'd trade down and grab him in the lower part of Rd. 1.  

The 5th year option for QB is too valuable to let one slide to the second. That's why teams always reach up for them at the back of the 1rst.

 

I'm totally with you on Mac though. Lance and Mac are the 2 QBs I'm interested in the most, but I want both to sit a while.

[KDawg]

35 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

The 5th year option for QB is too valuable to let one slide to the second. That's why teams always reach up for them at the back of the 1rst.

 

I'm totally with you on Mac though. Lance and Mac are the 2 QBs I'm interested in the most, but I want both to sit a while.

I don’t see the level of play from Mac. Doesnt create well enough and holds the ball way too long. But... guys with excellent work ethics will never be a bad pick to me. So I’d be on board. When you work hard there’s a good chance you fix your shortcomings 

[Darrell Green Fan]

13 hours ago, heyholetsgogrant said:

Exactly, the Patriots, Kansas CIty, Green Bay, Seattle, etc have had their windows extended with smart decisions.  Yes, QB play helps, but when was the last time those teams before Brady, Rogers, Smith, and Wilson sucked in the last 30 years?  There might have been a small gap of hardship between QB's, but those teams made smart decisions and have been relevant for decades. We've been bad for 30 years with a few sprinkles of playoff appearances. 

 

What do those 4 teams have in common? They either have had a very good QB for as long as they were relevant or in the case of KC they had a coach who is the best at getting the most out of his QB.  Prior to Russell Wilson's arrival Seattle was (counting backwards from the year before he arrived) 7-9, 7-9, 5-11, 4-12.  Yes they made a SB under Holmgren (in a year when their QB made the Pro Bowl) but nobody would consider those Hawks teams relevant before Russell Wilson arrived, they had one winning season for the entire decade of the 90's. 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Darrell Green Fan

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

What do those 4 teams have in common? They either have had a very good QB for as long as they were relevant or in the case of KC they had a coach who is the best at getting the most out of his QB.  Prior to Russell Wilson's arrival Seattle was (counting backwards from the year before he arrived) 7-9, 7-9, 5-11, 4-12.  Yes they made a SB under Holmgren (in a year when their QB made the Pro Bowl) but nobody would consider those Hawks teams relevant before Russell Wilson arrived, they had one winning season for the entire decade of the 90's. 

3 of the 4 got their QB without a big trade up.

[Koolblue13]

40 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don’t see the level of play from Mac. Doesnt create well enough and holds the ball way too long. But... guys with excellent work ethics will never be a bad pick to me. So I’d be on board. When you work hard there’s a good chance you fix your shortcomings 

work ethic, smart, studies, is a calm collected leader at the highest level of competition. Sounds like an Alex Smith and honestly, I'm fine with that.

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

work ethic, smart, studies, is a calm collected leader at the highest level of competition. Sounds like an Alex Smith and honestly, I'm fine with that.

I’m waiting to hear from more sources about some of these guys psych intangibles. I am sure my list will be altered dramatically once more around that stuff comes out.

[Koolblue13]

Just now, KDawg said:

I’m waiting to hear from more sources about some of these guys psych intangibles. I am sure my list will be altered dramatically once more around that stuff comes out.

That makes such a difference. Work ethic on the field and in the film room, natural leader, loved by teammates, etc. That stuff goes a very long way for a QB.

[Darrell Green Fan]

27 minutes ago, KDawg said:

3 of the 4 got their QB without a big trade up.

 

We all know how you feel but that wasn't the point. I was responding to the poster who said " Yes, QB play helps, but when was the last time those teams before Brady, Rogers, Smith, and Wilson sucked in the last 30 years?"  The answer was a number of plenty of times, look at the Hawks in the 90's.   QB play does not just "help" it is very very important.  

Edited December 31, 2020 by Darrell Green Fan

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

That makes such a difference. Work ethic on the field and in the film room, natural leader, loved by teammates, etc. That stuff goes a very long way for a QB.

It’s the biggest indicator for success in my opinion.

 

If things go as currently reported guys like Newman and Wilson are going to fall.

 

Fields maybe too, if some of the reports are right. But I hear conflicting stuff right now. 
 

There’s a world where Lance is my #2 and Jones is my 3 despite that he’s my current QB7.

 

I am paying a lot of attention to Shane Buechele. I think he may be the steal.

1 minute ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

We all know how you feel but that wasn't the point. I was responding to the poster who said " Yes, QB play helps, but when was the last time those teams before Brady, Rogers, Smith, and Wilson sucked in the last 30 years?"  The answer was plenty of times, look at the Hawks in the 90's.   

I understand what you were doing. I thought it was appropriate to point out how those QBs were acquired, though. And the state of the Chiefs roster before they made their trade was pretty damn good. That’s relevant to the overarching conversation.

 

Your point isn’t invalid. I was piggybacking. Not stepping on.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I don’t see the level of play from Mac. Doesnt create well enough and holds the ball way too long. But... guys with excellent work ethics will never be a bad pick to me. So I’d be on board. When you work hard there’s a good chance you fix your shortcomings 

 

I like Mac from a roll of the dice stand point.  I am not though 100% sold on Mac.  I am not sure I agree with him holding the ball way too long.  He from what I've watched has a quick release. Compact delivery versus long wind up.  Ball usually comes out fast.  Maybe you mean on deep balls?  He has plenty of time on 7 step drops.  He has a Fort Knox level O line.   So he has plenty of time to make them if he wants it.   

 

He's likely going to have 6 teammates on offense go in the first two rounds which is insane.   My biggest pause about him is he doesn't have really any one killer trait.  He doesn't have a rocket arm.  He's not mobile/fast.   His ball placement IMO is good but far from perfect. 

 

If I had to pick on his best trait it would be selling play action -- he's good at using his body and eyes to fake defenders.  For that reason he reminds me stylistically more of Kirk Cousins than some here say Alex Smith.   That IMO is Kirk's greatest strengh.   The other thing is even though he doesn't have speed, he has quick feet and he can maneuver well in the pocket.  I recall some discussion on other QB threads about the value of tennis players on that front.  Mac played tennis.  His dad is a tennis instructor. 

 

My top concern about him is he relies a lot on receivers to bail him out on contested throws and his receivers are often open by a mile.  What happens when coverage ends up much tighter and or receivers don't bail him?    But I like his intangibles and make up.  Typically if you are getting a QB outside the top 10, they have apparent flaws.    Jones is no different.  I'd be cool with rolling the dice on him though. 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I like Mac from a roll of the dice stand point.  I am not though 100% sold on Mac.  I am not sure I agree with him holding the ball way too long.  He from what I've watched has a quick release. Compact delivery versus long wind up.  Ball usually comes out fast.  Maybe you mean on deep balls?  He has plenty of time on 7 step drops.  He has a Fort Knox level O line.   So he has plenty of time to make them if he wants it.   

 

He's likely going to have 6 teammartes on offense go in the first two rounds which is insane.   My biggest pause about him is he doesn't have really any one killer trait.  He doesn't have a rocket.  He's not mobile. 

 

If I had to pick on trait it would be selling play action -- he's good at using his body and eyes to fake defenders.  For that reason he reminds me stylistically more of Kirk Cousins than some here say Alex Smith.   That IMO is Kirk's greatest strengh.   The other thing is even though he doesn't have speed, he has quick feet and he can maneuver well in the pocket.  I recall some discussion on other QB threads about the value of tennis players on that front.  Mac played tennis.  His dad is a tennis instructor. 

 

My top concern about him is he relies a lot on receivers to bails him out on contested throws and his receivers are often open by a mile.  What happens when coverage ends up much tighter and or receivers don't bail him?    But I like his intangibles and make up.  Typically if you are getting a QB outside the top 10, they have apparent flaws.    Jones is no different.  I'd be cool with rolling the dice on him though. 

My write up on him: Accurate passer in the middle of the field that has good footwork and scans the field well. Doesn't have a fantastic arm and one hops throws to the field outside the hash entirely too often and misses open targets down the field too often. He does well on crossing patterns, slants, digs and operates really comfortably from play action. He scans the field well and is situationally aware and knows how to throw the ball away to avoid a sack. He uses his playmakers well and throws the ball to them in space as often as he can. He has a winning attitude and has proven he is tough as nails, but he is extremely well protected and isn't a great dual threat kind of athlete. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I understand what you were doing. I thought it was appropriate to point out how those QBs were acquired, though. And the state of the Chiefs roster before they made their trade was pretty damn good. That’s relevant to the overarching conversation.

 

Your point isn’t invalid. I was piggybacking. Not stepping on.

 

Gotcha. My point was obviously a good QB doesn't just "help" as @heyholetsgogrant(great username by the way) stated, it's vital for lasting success. 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Darrell Green Fan