Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Warhead36]

I'm not trading the reigning DROTY and probable 15+ sack a year guy for the next decade for the 4th best QB in the class who is a super project. Laugh at them and hard pass.

[Est.1974]

11 minutes ago, TrancesWithWolves said:

 

3. However, the ONLY way that Atlanta will agree to trade the 4th pick is if we agree to send them ughhh...Chase Young.

Atlanta wanted to trade up to #2 to select Young and we weren’t interested. So we aren’t moving him on.

[JoggingGod]

29 minutes ago, TrancesWithWolves said:

This makes me gut sick even to think about it let alone type it but I have a question that needs to be asked.

 

Assume the following:

 

1. Atlanta is on the clock and willing to make a trade with us.

2. The young qb that we love AND that Rivera firmly believes can potentially make a Patrick Mahomes type impact on our team in a few years is there for the taking.

3. However, the ONLY way that Atlanta will agree to trade the 4th pick is if we agree to send them ughhh...Chase Young.

4. Atlanta is not bluffing. There is neither the time nor the incentive for Atlanta to negotiate. No other combination of players, picks or cash will suffice. If we don’t give them Chase they have a deal in place with another team that they will take.

 

Tick...tick...tick...

 

What do you do?

 

A. Laugh at them and hang up the phone.

B. Give up a once in a lifetime edge player and team leader for a potential franchise trajectory changing quarterback?

C. Other.

 

 

A

[SkinsGuy]

18 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

What do you do?

 

A. Laugh at them and hang up the phone.

B. Give up a once in a lifetime edge player and team leader for a potential franchise trajectory changing quarterback?

C. Other.

 

You do 'A'.

 

Then you call them back, laugh at them again, and hang up.

[Est.1974]

49ers picking at #3 to get their long term answer at QB and still have a draft pick set of:
 

Round 1, Pick 3
Round 2, Pick 43
Round 3, Pick 102 (Compensatory)
Round 4, Pick 117
Round 5, Pick 155
Round 5, Pick 172 (via New Orleans)
Round 5, Pick 180 (Compensatory)
Round 6, Pick 193
Round 7, Pick 229 (via New York Jets)

 

So many things change year by year. We could trade Scherff. We may have to trade a DL. We could pick up comp picks from players or minority hires. 
 

I think Rivera may just bring out the Riverboat in him again if he thinks our rosters is well set. Mistakes of the past are exactly that, the past. If we really like a QB, I don’t see any reason to sit on our hands and miss out.

[RWJ]

3 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

49ers picking at #3 to get their long term answer at QB and still have a draft pick set of:
 

Round 1, Pick 3
Round 2, Pick 43
Round 3, Pick 102 (Compensatory)
Round 4, Pick 117
Round 5, Pick 155
Round 5, Pick 172 (via New Orleans)
Round 5, Pick 180 (Compensatory)
Round 6, Pick 193
Round 7, Pick 229 (via New York Jets)

 

So many things change year by year. We could trade Scherff. We may have to trade a DL. We could pick up comp picks from players or minority hires. 
 

I think Rivera may just bring out the Riverboat in him again if he thinks our rosters is well set. Mistakes of the past are exactly that, the past. If we really like a QB, I don’t see any reason to sit on our hands and miss out.

I think teams have/will shy away from Scherff.  I think his boat sailed when and I believe he takes the money ($18 mill) and goes into FA next year.  I believe he had no intention and has no intentions of negotiating with us on a LTD.  We wait until July to see if this is true.  We may never know though as if he doesn't come to agreement on a LTD, Scherff's side will say one thing and ours another.  

[88Comrade2000]

Tell Atlanta thanks but Hell No.  Chase isn't going anywhere.

[NoVaSkins21]

Not sure where the trade scenario with Atlanta came from, but anything involving Chase or anyone the DL is off the table.  You don't draft a dominant generational talent one year and trade him in a RG3-like trade the next.  A whole lot of BS gets thrown around this time of year.

Edited April 11, 2021 by SAli457180

[Anselmheifer]

49 minutes ago, SAli457180 said:

anything involving Chase or anyone the DL is off the table.  

Totally disagree. Chase and Montez are off the table. Guys like that are importable to find. 
 

Payne, Allen and Ioannidis are on the table. They can be replaced by prudent drafting. AND,  moving them for a QB could make Chase and Montez even better, if teams are forced to pass and out guys can pin their ears back. 

[CommanderInTheRye]

1 hour ago, SAli457180 said:

Not sure where the trade scenario with Atlanta came from...

 

 

It’s like the proverbial 3am fart at a poker table. It exists but no one wants to claim responsibility.

[Skinsinparadise]

I posted this on the draft thread but works here, too

 

Listened to Cooley on Sheehan's podcast.  He likes Lance, Fields, and Jones.   He thinks this class of QBs are leaps and bounds over the 2019 QB class (he referred to the 2019 class because he didn't dive into the 2020 class)

 

He's not been perfect in his film study and predictions but who is?   I recall in 2018, he said Josh Allen would be the best QB among that group when almost no one else I recall was saying the same thing.

 

He pretty much predicted what kind of QB Daniel Jones would be correctly thus far.  He didn't see Haskins at the time as a first round talent and was as negative as supposely Kyle Smith and Jay and the WFT scouts were that Haskins wasn't a good get.   He said after watching him on film he called the people he knew with the organization and urged them not to take Haskins.   He did love Kyler Murray but granted that was an easy one.  He didn't think any of the other QBs in that draft were first round picks. 

 

Anyway he loves Trey Lance.  He's watched Jones/Fields too but not as much.  He doesn't think Lance falls but if he did he'd trade up big for him.  He said he'd watch more first to make sure his first impression stuck but if it did he'd be all in. 

 

He said Lance is decisive, he has good footwork.  He is good under center/play action QB.  He thinks he needs to work on his accuracy with shorter throws (I've made the same point before).  He thinks he throws a great deep ball.  As a runner he has the size to take a hit unlike RG3 but has some concerns about how willing he is to take hits.  Unlike RG3, he has some wiggle when he runs. 

 

His reservations is they have simple offense/reads.  His arm motion/mechanics need some fixing.  He says he pushes the ball low/down on the shorter stuff which is good as for avoiding picks but it gives him accuracy problems with short throws. 

 

He didn't really get into Fields that deeply.  In short, he think he has sick talent but would have benefited from going back another year.  He seemed to suggest he needs to work out some of his inconsistencies. 

 

Fields accuracy is good.  He was blown away by some of the throws he made in his pro day.  He said the issue with Ohio State is their offense is super simplistic so it would be an adjustment to the pros.  However, he doesn't think Fields has Haskins problems with which is that Haskins is inaccurate and driven by as Cooley went his big time messed up mechanics.   He got into Haskins I gather because some like to do the Ohio State Qbs are the same drill.  But he shot that down. 

 

He didn't elaborate much on Mac Jones but really likes what he saw so far.    Loves his decision making.  He can tell they put a lot on his plate.   But he is just diving in on him.   Sounds like he likes Lance a hair over Jones and Jones a hair over Fields but likes all three.  But he said he has to watch Fields and Mac more, he has dived into Lance the most.

[mudhog]

9 hours ago, TrancesWithWolves said:

This makes me gut sick even to think about it let alone type it but I have a question that needs to be asked.

 

Assume the following:

 

1. Atlanta is on the clock and willing to make a trade with us.

2. The young qb that we love AND that Rivera firmly believes can potentially make a Patrick Mahomes type impact on our team in a few years is there for the taking.

3. However, the ONLY way that Atlanta will agree to trade the 4th pick is if we agree to send them ughhh...Chase Young.

4. Atlanta is not bluffing. There is neither the time nor the incentive for Atlanta to negotiate. No other combination of players, picks or cash will suffice. If we don’t give them Chase they have a deal in place with another team that they will take.

 

Tick...tick...tick...

 

What do you do?

 

A. Laugh at them and hang up the phone.

B. Give up a once in a lifetime edge player and team leader for a potential franchise trajectory changing quarterback?

C. Other.

 

 

A. LOL

[NoVaSkins21]

3 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Payne, Allen and Ioannidis are on the table. 

 

Payne and Allen are former 1st round picks.  Don't know if you can find former #1 picks lying around somewhere or be that bad that they're in a position to draft that high again.  Ioannidis wasn't a #1 pick but was playing like one when he got hurt.  

[RWJ]

7 minutes ago, SAli457180 said:

 

Payne and Allen are former 1st round picks.  Don't know if you can find former #1 picks lying around somewhere or be that bad that they're in a position to draft that high again.  Ioannidis wasn't a #1 pick but was playing like one when he got hurt.  

Looking forward to Ioannidis bouncing back this year.  He was our best IDL when he was playing, I thought.

[cakmoney61]

10 hours ago, TrancesWithWolves said:

This makes me gut sick even to think about it let alone type it but I have a question that needs to be asked.

 

Assume the following:

 

1. Atlanta is on the clock and willing to make a trade with us.

2. The young qb that we love AND that Rivera firmly believes can potentially make a Patrick Mahomes type impact on our team in a few years is there for the taking.

3. However, the ONLY way that Atlanta will agree to trade the 4th pick is if we agree to send them ughhh...Chase Young.

4. Atlanta is not bluffing. There is neither the time nor the incentive for Atlanta to negotiate. No other combination of players, picks or cash will suffice. If we don’t give them Chase they have a deal in place with another team that they will take.

 

Tick...tick...tick...

 

What do you do?

 

A. Laugh at them and hang up the phone.

B. Give up a once in a lifetime edge player and team leader for a potential franchise trajectory changing quarterback?

C. Other.

 

 

Hang up the phone.  You don't trade a second-year franchise DE the caliber of Chase Young for a player that you hope will be a franchise QB one day.

Edited April 11, 2021 by cakmoney61

[Anselmheifer]

3 hours ago, SAli457180 said:

 

Payne and Allen are former 1st round picks.  Don't know if you can find former #1 picks lying around somewhere or be that bad that they're in a position to draft that high again.  Ioannidis wasn't a #1 pick but was playing like one when he got hurt.  

 

Ugh. It's not that you can find them lying around anywhere. It's that none of them are truly elite. And we have a 1st rounder every year. I'd rather have a franchise QB and have one less 1st round caliber DT on the team. Pretty sure that's GM 101, not some crazy talk. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

44 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Ugh. It's not that you can find them lying around anywhere. It's that none of them are truly elite. And we have a 1st rounder every year. I'd rather have a franchise QB and have one less 1st round caliber DT on the team. Pretty sure that's GM 101, not some crazy talk. 

This is pretty much how I feel. I am satisfied with what Payne and Allen have brought to the table. They proved to be worth their picks, but there are 1st rounders like them in every draft. Jeffrey Simmons, Dexter Lawrence, Derrick Brown, Javon Kinlaw, and Vita Vea, these guys are all super recent (from the last 3 drafts) and comparible players. It's funny because Allen actually has a unique skillset when compared to the other 1st rounders that have come out recently but Payne is much more similar to the other guys on this list. 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[KillBill26]

14 hours ago, TrancesWithWolves said:

This makes me gut sick even to think about it let alone type it but I have a question that needs to be asked.

 

Assume the following:

 

1. Atlanta is on the clock and willing to make a trade with us.

2. The young qb that we love AND that Rivera firmly believes can potentially make a Patrick Mahomes type impact on our team in a few years is there for the taking.

3. However, the ONLY way that Atlanta will agree to trade the 4th pick is if we agree to send them ughhh...Chase Young.

4. Atlanta is not bluffing. There is neither the time nor the incentive for Atlanta to negotiate. No other combination of players, picks or cash will suffice. If we don’t give them Chase they have a deal in place with another team that they will take.

 

Tick...tick...tick...

 

What do you do?

 

A. Laugh at them and hang up the phone.

B. Give up a once in a lifetime edge player and team leader for a potential franchise trajectory changing quarterback?

C. Other.

 

 

A.  

No brainer.  Chase has shown he is going to be a terror in this league for awhile.  Give him up, at his age and cost, for a qb that is far from a sure thing?  Should not be given an ounce of consideration.

[JoggingGod]

Whatever we do we need to stay far away from Kyle Trask. He’s horrible.

[RWJ]

Unless a top QB drops to top 10 or tad below I see what Keim/Standig been saying and think we strike with hopefully, Mills or Trask in 2nd or maybe 3rd round.  

1 minute ago, JoggingGod said:

Whatever we do we need to stay far away from Kyle Trask. He’s horrible.

Keim keeps mentioning his name.  When Keim puts out a name he's has a rep he likes to keep so Zampese who has ties to Trask must see something in him.  Personally, I like Mills in the 2nd more so 3rd. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

21 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

Whatever we do we need to stay far away from Kyle Trask. He’s horrible.

Trask is far from horrible. He may look like he was born with two left feet that were surgically sewn on at birth when he drops back, but his accuracy still impresses the hell out of me. The guy hits his targets on the money and in stride at a consistent rate. 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[RWJ]

6 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Trask is far from horrible. He may look like he was born with two left feet that were surgically sewn on at birth when he drops back, but his accuracy still impresses the hell out of me. The guy hits his targets on the money and in stride at a consistent rate. 

Again, somethings there with Trask/WFT and I think Zampese has a lot to do with it. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

Just now, RWJ said:

Again, somethings there with Trask/WFT and I think Zampese has a lot to do with it. 

Trask wouldn't be a bad pick in the 3rd round. If he's our 3rd player drafted, im not too upset about that.

 

He puts touch on his throws, he knows how and when to mix velocity on his passes. Even though he's slow as hell, he still buys himself time in the pocket nicely, and the thing I saw with him that I really liked was that he actually throws his targets open. 

[RWJ]

5 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Trask wouldn't be a bad pick in the 3rd round. If he's our 3rd player drafted, im not too upset about that.

 

He puts touch on his throws, he knows how and when to mix velocity on his passes. Even though he's slow as hell, he still buys himself time in the pocket nicely, and the thing I saw with him that I really liked was that he actually throws his targets open. 

Yoda, I'm starting to think with Keim coming out and putting Trask name out there on more than a couple of occasions, he's the pick in the 2nd round.  I don't think he makes it to the 3rd same with Mills.  So it will be between the two.  Zampese was there with Trask in FL so it makes sense.  6'5" 240lb QB that can take the punishing hits and w/stand the hits in the pocket.  When you stop and think about it and PFF has menionted that he fits ours and NE's offense the best.  I think Trask to DC is starting to gain wings, man.  

Edited April 12, 2021 by RWJ

[mistertim]

22 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Trask is far from horrible. He may look like he was born with two left feet that were surgically sewn on at birth when he drops back, but his accuracy still impresses the hell out of me. The guy hits his targets on the money and in stride at a consistent rate. 

 

Trask's accuracy is fine when he has Pitts, Toney, and Grimes to make plays for him. When he didn't have them vs OU he looked like a true freshman playing his first game. He was so bad they started rotating the backup in after the 1st quarter...so Trask wasn't even playing the whole game and still threw 3 INTs. 

 

Yes it's expected that a QB will suffer some when he's missing big playmakers. But to be THAT glaringly bad without them is a huge red flag. His footwork is slower than molasses, he has a very mediocre arm especially for a guy his size, and he has very little athleticism and ability to make plays outside of the pocket. 

 

IMO his ceiling in the NFL is a career backup.