Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Lance has some sick tools.  A rocket arm.  And he's arguably the best running QB in this draft.  His intangibles are supposedly off the charts.  He's raw -- stares at his #1 target, mostly a one read guy and if they aren't open he runs.  But I'd be excited about him.  I like Fields more.  But I like Lance.

 

I keep reading that Rivera likes the idea of modeling the Bills.  Lance has some Josh Allen in him.  Allen with the stronger arm.  Lance the better runner.  Both with big time intangibles. 

 

There would be some irony to me if they trade up to get him. When I did my first longish take on Lance on this thread months ago, I said his arm strength and the way he flings the deep ball with the flick of a wrist reminds me of RG3.

Agreed.  We don't need another RG3 2.0 in DC again.  

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

20 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Agreed.  We don't need another RG3 2.0 in DC again.  

 

that's cool.  But to clairfy things since you quoted me there and said agreed, I am not against trading for Lance.   You were agreeing to my thought that his flick of the wrist arm strength (which was a complement from me) reminded me of RG3 on that count.  RG3 had his issues but arm strength was one of his better attributes. 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

that's cool.  But to clairfy things since you quoted me there and said agreed, I am not against trading for Lance.   You were agreeing to my thought that his flick of the wrist arm strength (which was a complement from me) reminded me of RG3 on that count.  RG3 had his issues but arm strength was one of his better attributes. 

Running too before he got hurt.  He was a spread option QB only.  Once his game was found out in the NFL he disappeared.  Just like "NO Justice needed" Kap.  Again, my opinion.

[TheShredder]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

Just wondering who this 'Kyle Wilson' guy is that Grandpa has at #2...

[RWJ]

Just now, TheShredder said:

Just wondering who this 'Kyle Wilson' guy is that Grandpa has at #2...

That's Charley for ya.  Oh my!  

[TheShredder]

8 minutes ago, RWJ said:

That's Charley for ya.  Oh my!  

Just imagine all the Twitter reads and retweets.  His credibility is bottom drawer to the left under the sour bacon and meat cake.

Edited April 7, 2021 by TheShredder

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, RWJ said:

Running too before he got hurt.  He was a spread option QB only.  Once his game was found out in the NFL he disappeared.  Just like "NO Justice needed" Kap.  Again, my opinion.

 

Lance has thicker build and can take the punishment that RG3 couldn't ala Lamar Jackson.  Lance also supposedly has crazy good intangibles that sadly RG3 lacked.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2935217-trey-lance-praised-as-whole-other-level-special-by-coach-ahead-of-nfl-draft

One coach described North Dakota State quarterback Trey Lance as a "whole other-level special" ahead of the 2021 NFL draft. 

"He has all the physical tools," the unnamed coach told Bruce Feldman of The Athletic on Tuesday. "Nothing fazes him, and I think he's a fierce competitor. He finds ways to make plays. He's a big, strong kid who is hard to tackle and can make you miss in space. He's extremely well-coached. You never saw just bad throws; most of them were where his guys are getting it right in stride."

 

"On film, you don't realize how big he is because he is so athletic," a college coach told Feldman. "He was much bigger than we thought he was. That size, athleticism and arm are so rare at this level. He broke some runs on us where he'd break tackles, push the pile. One play, we had one of the best athletes we had come free on a blitz, and he makes him miss and throws a perfect ball on a dig to pick up the first down."

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/scouting-trey-lance-north-dakota-state-qb-similar-to-andrew-luck

 

Biggest takeaway: I was shocked at the maturity in Lance's game. It's uncommon to see a redshirt senior demonstrate this type of control and mastery of a system. Lance was a redshirt freshman! He does a wonderful job staying in the moment and executing. I didn't expect to see such a polished player at this stage of his development.

He reminds me of: Andrew Luck. I know Luck is a little bit bigger, but they are similar athletes and they both played with a maturity beyond their age at the collegiate level. I remember watching Luck run over defenders. I also remember being so impressed with his ability to execute on key plays in every game. I see the same things when I study Lance. More than anything else, these are two guys who exude confidence on the field. They are fearless, but they avoid being reckless. That's a very delicate balance. Luck was on his way to a Hall of Fame career before shocking the football world and retiring a year ago. I don't have quite the same grade on Lance, but he could get there with continued growth and development.

 

Follow Daniel Jeremiah on Twitter @MoveTheSticks.

 

 

[RWJ]

32 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

Just imagine all the Twitter reads and retweets.  His credibility is bottom drawer to the left under the sour bacon and meat cake.

Charley tries!    I met him one time at Frostburg, years ago.  I saw him walking to one of the buildings being incognito but I knew who he was.  He's was very quiet but kind.  He was soft spoken as should be with a GM meeting a no body fan like myself.  

27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Lance has thicker build and can take the punishment that RG3 couldn't ala Lamar Jackson.  Lance also supposedly has crazy good intangibles that sadly RG3 lacked.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2935217-trey-lance-praised-as-whole-other-level-special-by-coach-ahead-of-nfl-draft

One coach described North Dakota State quarterback Trey Lance as a "whole other-level special" ahead of the 2021 NFL draft. 

"He has all the physical tools," the unnamed coach told Bruce Feldman of The Athletic on Tuesday. "Nothing fazes him, and I think he's a fierce competitor. He finds ways to make plays. He's a big, strong kid who is hard to tackle and can make you miss in space. He's extremely well-coached. You never saw just bad throws; most of them were where his guys are getting it right in stride."

 

"On film, you don't realize how big he is because he is so athletic," a college coach told Feldman. "He was much bigger than we thought he was. That size, athleticism and arm are so rare at this level. He broke some runs on us where he'd break tackles, push the pile. One play, we had one of the best athletes we had come free on a blitz, and he makes him miss and throws a perfect ball on a dig to pick up the first down."

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/scouting-trey-lance-north-dakota-state-qb-similar-to-andrew-luck

 

Biggest takeaway: I was shocked at the maturity in Lance's game. It's uncommon to see a redshirt senior demonstrate this type of control and mastery of a system. Lance was a redshirt freshman! He does a wonderful job staying in the moment and executing. I didn't expect to see such a polished player at this stage of his development.

He reminds me of: Andrew Luck. I know Luck is a little bit bigger, but they are similar athletes and they both played with a maturity beyond their age at the collegiate level. I remember watching Luck run over defenders. I also remember being so impressed with his ability to execute on key plays in every game. I see the same things when I study Lance. More than anything else, these are two guys who exude confidence on the field. They are fearless, but they avoid being reckless. That's a very delicate balance. Luck was on his way to a Hall of Fame career before shocking the football world and retiring a year ago. I don't have quite the same grade on Lance, but he could get there with continued growth and development.

 

Follow Daniel Jeremiah on Twitter @MoveTheSticks.

 

 

Lance is HUGE boom or HUGE bust to me.  I hope he has an excellent career in the NFL but not in the NFC East unless it's us but I'd rather have the draft come to us and get someone like Mills.  We need an Left OT and MLB so bad along with another TE to make the O click, I think.  Give me Mills in the 3rd.  IF he's still available when we pick.  

[Warhead36]

I'm not giving up 3 #1s for Lance but man the idea of having a Lance/McLaurin/Gibson Big 3 to build around for the next 5+ years just makes my mouth drool. Paired with our defense, thats a potential Lombardi contender every year...

[JoggingGod]

53 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Just like "NO Justice needed" Kap.

Curious what you mean by this

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, JoggingGod said:

Curious what you mean by this

I apologize for putting that out there.  That was ignorant of me.  This is a football forum and not a political one so thus my words to start my comments.  

[mistertim]

I do like Lance's skill set in general but I disagree with that above scouting report on a couple of points:

 

1) Yes he's built thicker than RG3 but completely disagree that he "avoids being reckless". IMO he's a pretty reckless runner. There are tons of times you see him just try to truck guys at all levels of the field. That may be fun to watch and it's one thing to do against MVC players who will never see an NFL field, but it's going to be a completely different experience if he tries that with 250lb NFL players.

 

2) Comparing him to Andrew Luck as a prospect is ludicrous. The only thing they have in common is that they're both big and athletic. Luck was easily one of the most polished and pro-ready passers to ever come out of college with multiple years of top tier play to prove it. Lance is a completely raw one year wonder who played against inferior talent on a stacked team. 

[JoggingGod]

48 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I apologize for putting that out there.  That was ignorant of me.  This is a football forum and not a political one so thus my words to start my comments.  

Nah, miss me with that. You revealed your true colors. You knew exactly what you were trying to convey by saying that about Kaepernick.

Edited April 8, 2021 by JoggingGod

[CommanderInTheRye]

I am probably wrong but I’m going on the record all the same.

 

I’m calling shenanigans. This Mac Jones to the 49ers talk is a smokescreen. 

 

The more I think about it the more I believe that San Francisco didn’t gave up three first round picks to get an at best potentially solid qb in MacJones.

 

You pay a price like that only if you think you’re getting a generational talent someone that can dominate and put fear into both the defensive coordinators that have to create schemes to contain him and the defensive players that have to go up against him.

 

Mac Jones may be solid. He may be a winner. He may be a wizard at the chalk board. He may be the guy you want to marry your daughter.

 

But he will likely never be a player that other players fear— especially not in today’s NFL.

 

I suspect that Shanahan sees something potentially very, very, special in the raw clay that is Trey Lance. Something that just requires time and a master sculptor to reveal. He intends to be that sculptor and create a masterpiece at qb over the next two years. He sees someOne that will strike fear in the hearts of opponents.

 

In the meantime Jimmy G gets the starting nod while Fields learns and prepares for his triumphant unveiling.

 

We shall see.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by TrancesWithWolves

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

I was against trading up for Lance earlier in the off-season. But I’ve changed my mind.  Now with Fitzpatrick in tow and with our thirst for finding ANY QB being quenched, I could see us actually sitting him for a year and letting him marinate and learn.  I would definitely do it if the opportunity presented itself, the tools are there to be molded. IF the FO Loves him ovsly.

 

Would not shock me in the least if we pulled the trigger.
Remember Ron’s first draft pick?

A raw, young, big bodied, runner/passer,. Hmmm. sounds familiar?  I can see the riverboat being gassed up for a spin. We’ll see, so stoked about the direction of this team man!

Edited April 8, 2021 by COWBOY-KILLA-

[seantaylor=god]

58 minutes ago, TrancesWithWolves said:

I am probably wrong but I’m going on the record all the same.

 

I’m calling shenanigans. This Mac Jones to the 49ers talk is a smokescreen. 

 

The more I think about it the more I believe that San Francisco didn’t gave up three first round picks to get an at best potentially solid qb in MacJones.

 

You pay a price like that only if you think you’re getting a generational talent someone that can dominate and put fear into both the defensive coordinators that have to create schemes to contain him and the defensive players that go against him.

 

Mac Jones may be solid. He may be a winner. He may be a wizard at the chalk board. But imho he will likely never be a player that other players fear-x not in today’s NFL.

 

I suspect that Shanahan sees something potentially very, very, special in the raw clay that is Trey Lance. Something that just requires time and a master sculptor to reveal. He intends to be that sculptor and create a masterpiece at qb over the next two years.

 

One that will strike fear in the hearts of opponents.

 

In the meantime Jimmy G gets the starting nod.

 

We shall see.

 

 

Definitely possible. But why the subterfuge? We know what the other teams are doing at 1 and 2, so why are we hearing so much Mac Jones rumors?

[Malapropismic Depository]

3 hours ago, TheShredder said:

Just wondering who this 'Kyle Wilson' guy is that Grandpa has at #2...

 

If Kyle Shanahan and Zach Wilson had a baby.

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Malapropismic Depository

[RWJ]

2 hours ago, JoggingGod said:

Nah, miss me with that. You revealed your true colors. You knew exactly what you were trying to convey by saying that about Kaepernick.

That's why I said quote:  "I apologize for putting that out there.  That was ignorant of me.  This is a football forum and not a political one so thus my words to start my comments."  I apologized, JG!      Re-read what I quoted and it might sink in.  I don't like to get abrupt but sometimes one has to. 

[CommanderInTheRye]

12 hours ago, seantaylor=god said:

Definitely possible. But why the subterfuge? We know what the other teams are doing at 1 and 2, so why are we hearing so much Mac Jones rumors?

 

 

Good question.

 

Old conquistador saying: “Having a map to a gold mine is not the same thing as having actual gold nuggets in your possesion.”

 

If you don’t have the first pick in the draft you don’t have certainty. Until you draft the player you don’t have the player.  And until you have the player there is a chance, no matter how improbable, that someone else may find a way to get him.

 

First, let’s assume that the 49ers were all in on Lance. By that I mean they were convinced that he was their qb for the next decade. They liked him more than even Zach Wilson and they didn’t want anyone else to get him.

 

Given that fact set the number one concern for the 49ers then becomes: How do we maximize the probability of obtaining the best outcome for the team ie drafting Trey Lance?

 

After spending a fortune in draft capital to be in position to get Lance they thought “why take the chance that someone might make an offer that the Jets or perhaps even the Bengals can’t refuse”? 

 

So after acquiring the third pick they let their false intention to draft Mac Jones become public knowledge by planting the  story with the media while keeping their true target, Trey Lance, a closely guarded secret.

 

By spreading the rumor that they wanted Mac Jones only a team that also wanted Jones would even attempt to leapfrog them. Someone interested in Trey Lance would make a play for the fourth pick in the draft which interestingly is exactly what appears to be happening.

 

Admittedly this is a Highly unlikely, perhaps even borderline wacky scenario, but if they do end up drafting Trey Lance or heck anyone, other than Mac Jones, remember that you heard it here first.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by TrancesWithWolves

[JCB]

Not buying the Jones Niners connection either, especially since there’s a legitimate chance he’d have been there with their original pick.

[JoggingGod]

4 hours ago, JCB said:

Not buying the Jones Niners connection either, especially since there’s a legitimate chance he’d have been there with their original pick.

You don’t know that he would. There’s a high chance he would have been off the board in the first 8-10 picks.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Warhead36]

There is no reason for the 9ers to throw smokescreens. Everyone knows the top 2 picks are gonna be Lawrence and Wilson. What reason is there for the 9ers to make teams think they're gonna take Jones? Neither team above them is trading down at this point.

[mistertim]

I don't really think there is any "Mac Jones smokescreen" by the Niners. From what I can tell it's mostly sports writers and analysts throwing it out there without any real supporting evidence...probably clickbait.

 

If you watch Kyle's post-trade presser or read his answers, he talked about how an ideal QB has top physical traits and can make plays off schedule and outside of the pocket as well as in. Which is not Mac Jones. If they're going to spend three 1st round picks on a QB, why would they go with a guy who doesn't have their ideal traits?

 

Sure, it's possible. But I'd bet money that Mac Jones ain't it at 3.

Edited April 8, 2021 by mistertim

[CommanderInTheRye]

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

There is no reason for the 9ers to throw smokescreens. Everyone knows the top 2 picks are gonna be Lawrence and Wilson. What reason is there for the 9ers to make teams think they're gonna take Jones? Neither team above them is trading down at this point.

 

 

I think that you’re on solid ground with respect to Trevor Lawrence at number one. That has been essentially all but confirmed by Urban Meyer.

 

However, the Jets selection was considerably more in doubt especially prior to their trading Sam Darnold.

 

Remember that the rumors that the 49ers were enamored with Mac Jones began just before they traded up to the third pick. That’s important.

 

At that time the Jets still had Sam Darnold listed as the starting qb on their team.  There were indeed reports speculating that they were leaning towards selecting Zach Wilson but no one could be sure.

 

In fact the idea that they could be enticed to stay with Sam Darnold and collect a bundle of draft capital to move down a few picks was a hot topic on sports talk shows. 

 

Neither San Francisco nor anyone else could be certain of their intentions at the time the rumors that they preferred Mac Jones began.

 

Are the rumors accurate or not? I don’t know. I don’t think anyone that’s not in Shanahan’s close circle does either— but We shall see soon enough.

 

I just find it interesting that Shanahan who, like his father, has a well earned reputation for controlling information and media access with an iron fist would allow the critical knowledge that he wanted to draft Mac Jones to get out to the public just as he was trying to trade up in the draft to supposedly get him.

 

Is it not at least worth considering that this was subterfuge from day one? An attempt to mislead others about the player he was really moving up to acquire.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by TrancesWithWolves