Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

I think we can sign Winston day 1 if we commit to him. Something super fair for a starting QB but still super discounted relatively speaking.  

13-16 M with a chance to make 16-24 through incentives. Somewhere in there. I wondered about this the other day, so I looked up JW’s record vs. Carolina to see if would give us any clue about how Ron feels about him. JW is 5-5 vs Ron’s teams. Nothing really revealing. I actually think Mariota would command a pretty similar deal worth maybe a little less. 
 

Trubisky would command significantly less than both of them, since he has a worse case than both and this is his purgatory year, having just been benched. I’d be super fine with any of those 3. They all present some positives and upside for a retread QB. Or we choose super low budget this year and bring in a rook instead with what we currently have. 
 
We can also go caretaker mode and bring in Teddy if Carolina moves on or finds their QB via the draft or trade. Gonna be interesting to see what we do, like we dont know, but if they really believe in any of these guys we should know pretty quickly into FA.

If we don’t pounce early, we don’t believe. And no matter what, they’ll have to prove it. 

Edited March 7, 2021 by COWBOY-KILLA-

[wit33]

1 hour ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

I think we can sign Winston day 1 if we commit to him. Something super fair for a starting QB but still super discounted relatively speaking.  

13-16 M with a chance to make 16-24 through incentives. Somewhere in there. I wondered about this the other day, so I looked up JW’s record vs. Carolina to see if would give us any clue about how Ron feels about him. JW is 5-5 vs Ron’s teams. Nothing really revealing. I actually think Mariota would command a pretty similar deal worth maybe a little less. 
 

Trubisky would command significantly less than both of them, since he has a worse case than both and this is his purgatory year, having just been benched. I’d be super fine with any of those 3. They all present some positives and upside for a retread QB. Or we choose super low budget this year and bring in a rook instead with what we currently have. 
 
We can also go caretaker mode and bring in Teddy if Carolina moves on or finds their QB via the draft or trade. Gonna be interesting to see what we do, like we dont know, but if they really believe in any of these guys we should know pretty quickly into FA.

If we don’t pounce early, we don’t believe. And no matter what, they’ll have to prove it. 

Hope there’s a future to creative contracts like a Marcus Mariota deal and it’s not viewed as a slight to the middle tier QB. Earn the back half of your salary or 30 or 40%. 

[RWJ]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

None that I can recall.  Only thing is Keim mentioned potential FA targets and those were Fitzpatrick, Dalton, T. Taylor.  He also mentioned Winston but said NO expected to keep him.  But the way he worded his article its tough to tell if that was just his opinion, he just randomly picked those as examples of FAs or that is what he's hearing.  He definitely didn't say he's heard they are interested in those players.  So to me too vague to know.   

Thank you as always, SIP. 

3 hours ago, HigSkin said:

 

Not sure about WFT interest but John Clayton report this possibility...

 

https://denverfan.com/2092367/clayton-the-broncos-will-be-bringing-in-competition-for-drew-lock/

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick looks like he’s going to retire. The Broncos did make some contact with him. He’s been with eight teams and played a long time. But it looks like he’s going to be out of the mix.

Thank you as always, HigSkin. 

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

I've seen this claim repeated a bunch about Winston, almost like people believe it to be a fact at his point. It actually shouldn't be hard to lure Winston away from New Orleans....if you're willing to commit to him. But the reality is that I expect the market for Winston to be soft. If all he's getting are $4 to $5 million dollar offers, he's probably going to stay in New Orleans, a place where he knows the system, has an actual chance to start, and has weapons. But Taysom Hill carries a $16,159,000 cap hit in 2021 and New Orleans is about $50 million over the cap. So if you're willing to give Winston $12 million or even more, he's probably yours. New Orleans isn't matching that.

 

 

Egads. I'm completely uninterested in paying Winston $12+ million per year; hard hard pass. That's an insane overpayment for a guy who is, at best, a mediocre NFL QB. I wouldn't give more than a few million per year at most. NO can have him. I'd rather just roll with Allen or Heinicke or some other low price FA. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Darnold would be a major downgrade from Jimmy Garoppolo, because Darnold is freaking horrendous.

Lombardi is correct that Darnold fits the physical profile Shanahan wants in a quarterback, but doesn't take into account the mental profile, i.e. football IQ. And football IQ is the main reason the 49ers want to get rid of Jimmy Garoppolo. He looks good throwing a football when he's healthy, but he doesn't know where to go with the ball most of the time and he makes bad decisions.

Darnold is worse. He makes Garoppolo look like a football genius.

When you watch the coach's tape of Darnold, the tape that shows all 22 players in the frame, you can see he misses open receivers almost every play. Misses them as in doesn't see them. He rarely knows where to go with the ball -- you can count on one hand the amount of time he executes plays correctly in a game. That's a big reason he already has gotten two head coaches fired -- Todd Bowles and Adam Gase.

Darnold has zero feel for playing quarterback and he's a turnover machine. Plus he misses games for bizarre reasons -- mono, strep, enlarged speed, etc. He's a project the 49ers don't need.

They already have a project quarterback from the 2018 draft. His name is Josh Rosen. The 49ers should develop him and let the Jets worry about Darnold.

 

https://www.sfgate.com/49ers/article/Teddy-Bridgewater-Sam-Darnold-49ers-rumors-trade-16001733.php

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, DWinzit said:

If Fitz is indeed retiring, they are not drafting a QB, and my options were between Dalton, Taylor and Winston I would go Winston. He at least will sling the ball and should intrigue offensive FA weapons. He would bring good competition with Heinicke like Fitz would.

If they are looking for a game managing stopgap then Dalton although I would want to look at FA Brissett also for this role.

 

 

I've followed Fitz quite a bit being in Florida.  Clayton and Keim actually have been on they hear he might retire kick.  But that's not what everyone is saying.  Will see.

 

The thing is if his camp is putting that out there I wonder if its to lure a team to give him a bigger payday to play?  If his intention is to retire why not do it?  Why let it string out to the start of FA?

 

I don't know what Fitz ends up doing but I am not taking Clayton's report as gospel.  I got no doubt that he along with Keim heard it from someone from his camp but it doesn't per se mean to me that it definitely happens.    

 

 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

Hoping that Darnold can be a great reclamation project makes polishing a turd look like child's play. The guy truly is just bad.

[Burgundy Yoda]

I'd be upset if we got Darnold for free, and I'm being dead serious. Getting him means we now have 3 backups. 

[Darth Tater]

13 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Hoping that Darnold can be a great reclamation project makes polishing a turd look like child's play. The guy truly is just bad.

A successful Danold reclamation project would be epic and probably says very bad things about the Jets.

[RWJ]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've followed Fitz quite a bit being in Florida.  Clayton and Keim actually have been on they hear he might retire kick.  But that's not what everyone is saying.  Will see.

 

The thing is if his camp is putting that out there I wonder if its to lure a team to give him a bigger payday to play?  If his intention is to retire why not do it?  Why let it string out to the start of FA?

 

I don't know what Fitz ends up doing but I am not taking Clayton's report as gospel.  I got no doubt that he along with Keim heard it from someone from his camp but it doesn't per se mean to me that it definitely happens.    

 

 

 

 

One would think IF he was signed for starter money (i.e. maybe $15 mill a year for 2 years) not all guaranteed but incentive laden, maybe he still plays.  It may take more; maybe not.  Just a thought. 

[mistertim]

14 minutes ago, RWJ said:

One would think IF he was signed for starter money (i.e. maybe $15 mill a year for 2 years) not all guaranteed but incentive laden, maybe he still plays.  It may take more; maybe not.  Just a thought. 

 

If we're dead set on bringing in a FA QB and are willing to pay $12-15 million per year for a couple of years I'd much rather it be on Fitz than Winston. 

[DWinzit]

4 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Why?

 

What value does paying them money to play over our current group bring?  We know what win/loss record those guys have had for multiple teams.  We know what win/loss record those teams get when they suddenly get a better QB over that group.

 

So...why bring that same failure here?

 

they were the potential targets mentioned by Keim. I went off of that.....

The only thing I added was one name if a stopgap was who they were looking for and they were not drafting. It is the only reason I could seem them having interest in the players other than maybe Winston

[PartyPosse]

10 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

If we're dead set on bringing in a FA QB and are willing to pay $12-15 million per year for a couple of years I'd much rather it be on Fitz than Winston. 

I think it depends on whether we draft a QB as well. If we don’t then I’m ok with Winston/Heinie. If we draft someone, I’d rather Fitz because I think he would be a better mentor.

[Koolblue13]

42 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I'd be upset if we got Darnold for free, and I'm being dead serious. 

I 100% agree with this.

[DWinzit]

4 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

I think it's extremely likely that Winston stays with NO. Especially if Brees retires. NO and Payton have been open about wanting to bring him back. If Brees retires that means Winston will be their starting QB.

 

If Fitz retires, the FA pool is going to absolutely stink. If the Raiders release Mariota he'll easily be the best of a putrid bunch and someone will undoubtedly reach and sign him to a huge deal.

 

Dalton could be an option but he's so underwhelming in general. If we draft a QB high then I'd be ok with him as a 1 year stopgap. Especially if it's a guy like Lance who probably needs some time to get up to speed with the NFL game.

 

Yeah NO isn't in a place to move up in the draft. They are going to need to go after keeping Winston. The only other viable option I could think they would be interested in is Fitz or bringing back Bridgewater but that would take a trade.

 

I am not a fan of Dalton even as a stopgap so agree as underwhelming! 

[CapsSkins]

46 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I'd be upset if we got Darnold for free, and I'm being dead serious. 

 

I'd trade a pick to keep him off the team!!

[Skinsinparadise]

29 minutes ago, RWJ said:

One would think IF he was signed for starter money (i.e. maybe $15 mill a year for 2 years) not all guaranteed but incentive laden, maybe he still plays.  It may take more; maybe not.  Just a thought. 

 

I am just guessing as for a reason for why the leak of Fitz retiring.  I trust for example Keim and if he says he's heard it from someone close to Fitz's camp (he mentioned something like that weeks ago in one of his podcasts if I recall) then I believe he indeed heard that. 

 

But I also find it maybe telling that 2 days ago when Keim wrote about potential FA targets, Fitz was one of the three mentioned.    So I'd guess either Fitz is considering retiring or maybe the money might dictate it one way or another and his camp wants to put that out there.  Or whomever that person is from Fitz's camp is dead wrong.  I don't know.  but I find it curious that he hasn't retired yet and FA is right around the corner.  Philip Rivers retired soon after the season.  Brees hasn't retired yet but his camp seems to have told everyone its a done deal. 

 

As for Fitzpatrick its a different story right now at least.   The Clayton story is getting more and more attention so I wonder if that compels Fitzpatrick or his agent to respond one way or another soon.  If the intention is to retire, I am surprised its playing out to the brink of FA that's all. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I am the dude who seems to be labled the king of the Sam Darnold haters here.  But heck there are definitely others on this thread that I think have me beat on that front. 

 

On another note, is there a QB that Orlovsky doesn't like?

 

 

 

[DWinzit]

I am loving how this page turned into the Sam Darnold please stay in NY you turd thread 🤣

 

[mistertim]

22 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I am loving how this page turned into the Sam Darnold please stay in NY you turd thread 🤣

 

 

[Hitman#21]

33 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am the dude who seems to be labled the king of the Sam Darnold haters here.  But heck there are definitely others on this thread that I think have me beat on that front. 

 

On another note, is there a QB that Orlovsky doesn't like?

 

 

It's a bitter Jets fan. next!

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

Alex Smith is a little like Tom Brady.

Don't question him or his will, and don't tell him he can't go out and do a particular thing.

Because he will then proceed to go out and do it.

We've now laid out the path, for his next step in proving people wrong, yet again.

He will go to Jacksonville and take them to the Super Bowl.

Next year's Super Bowl will be Taylor Heinicke vs Alex Smith. And of course, Smiffy will win it for JAX.

Right, @Koolblue13 ?

[Koolblue13]

11 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Alex Smith is a little like Tom Brady.

Don't question him or his will, and don't tell him he can't go out and do a particular thing.

Because he will then proceed to go out and do it.

We've now laid out the path, for his next step in proving people wrong, yet again.

He will go to Jacksonville and take them to the Super Bowl.

Next year's Super Bowl will be Taylor Heinicke vs Alex Smith. And of course, Smiffy will win it for JAX.

Right, @Koolblue13 ?

[Malapropismic Depository]

I havn't seen @KDawg in quite a while.

I'm guessing he's somewhere in or near Alabama, with a measuring tape, in order to measure wing span on receivers, and hand size on Quarterbacks.

[Jericho]

One other thing I'd add. The idea of drafting and developing a QB is exceptionally rare. Many, including myself, have pointed out how rare it is for non-first rounder QBs to actually work out. But the few that do, often play much sooner rather than later. Prescott, Carr, and Russell Wilson all started from Day 1 in their rookie year. Tom Brady had displaced Drew Bledsoe by Year 2 and Bledsoe was pretty good (and Brady was only a sixth round pick). Yeah, I know Aaron Rodgers sat for a few years behind Brett Favre. But that was Brett Favre! It's one thing to sit behind a future HOFer, it's another to sit behind Kyle Allen. Mahomes did sit of a year, though Kansas City was coming off a strong season and Alex Smith was a Top 10 QB the year Mahomes was there. And KC still dumped Alex Smith in the offseason. The general idea is good QBs force there way into the line-up fast. And there's really no obstacles here in Washington. So the idea of drafting a guy and then having him sit for a few years and then busting out is unlikely. Interestingly, Kirk Cousins is probably the only great example of this in recent history (and maybe Garoppolo if you want to stretch it). So it could happen. But it's very, very unlikely. Anyone that hasn't shown something by Year 2 is probably not going to show it at all.