Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[clskinsfan]

2 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

One thing for any QB, whether by free agency or trade; why would they really want to come here? 
 

 

Edited March 6, 2021 by clskinsfan

[mistertim]

12 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

The stopgap would be battling with Heinicke for the starting job. The winner the starter, loser backup. Drafted QB would be third string. No room for a 4th QB. Yeah, we can stash Allen on pup but if he can play; I think he will asked to be let go, to have a shot elsewhere.

 

Why are you assuming the stopgap would be battling with Heinicke for the starting job but not Allen? Allen is coming back from an injury, so there's always a worry there, but in his 4 games last season he actually played well. Heinicke played well vs TB but that's literally the 2nd game he's started in his entire career, and the first one in the past 3 years.

 

That's weird to me.

[Jericho]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

I doubt Mariota wants to go to a team where it's obvious he's just a stopgap for a year or two (unless it's for a lot of money). If he has a choice (and I'm assuming at least a few teams will be vying for his services) I'm guessing he'll go to a team where he thinks they're hoping he'll end up being "the guy" and their long term solution.

 

Beggars can't be choosers. There's maybe three places Mariota could go and be the clear starter. We're talking about a guy who found zero starting jobs last offseason and then didn't play most of the season. There's not a robust market for him and I doubt he signs for more than 2 years anyway. He's basically seeking a prove it deal and then hoping it works out to a better offer down the road. It probably won't, but that's the smart play.

[samy316]

18 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

 

That's not enough for a QB to come here.  If you had a gif of McLaurin, maybe he might be enticed.  We have a terrible offense as it is, so the next few gifs should be of McLaurin, Gibson and either Allen Robinson/Corey Davis.

Edited March 6, 2021 by samy316

[clskinsfan]

3 minutes ago, samy316 said:

 

 

That's not enough for a QB to come here.  If you had a gif of McLaurin, maybe he might be enticed.  We have a terrible offense as it is, so the next few gifs should be of McLaurin, Gibson and either Allen Robinson/Corey Davis.

If you dont think QB's value a good defense I dont know what to tell you. More opportunities through turnovers, better field position and overall winning more games has value for anyone playing under center. 

[Jericho]

2 hours ago, Hitman#21 said:

Jets really sold it to the media they are holding Darnold til April.

 

Meaning:

 

1. They are getting crap offers

 

2. They really don't know what they're doing 

 

Yeah, I'm a bit perplexed at the media's valuation of Darnold. So many seem to think the Jets are going to get some grand bounty in a trade. But who's actually going to trade for Darnold? He's basically on a one year contract at this point and hasn't been good in any of the previous years. So there's little incentive for a team to trade for Darnold if they aren't going to start him (as he can just walk after the year). But teams that need a QB have seen that he has sucked and probably aren't thrilled with him being the starter as they'd prefer something better. A low round pick could make it worthwhile for the acquiring team, but at that point the Jets might not feel it's worth it. They don't have to dump Darnold, as his 2021 salary is actually quite low. I just think the offers are crap. Which makes sense. I guess the Jets can hope some team makes a stupid move (looking at you John Elway), but it's probably not happening.

[dyst]

There is no reason to value this team right now. Yes we had a good defense but lots of holes on both side + we only won 7 games in probably the weakest division in NFL history.

[Jericho]

8 minutes ago, samy316 said:

 

 

That's not enough for a QB to come here.  If you had a gif of McLaurin, maybe he might be enticed.  We have a terrible offense as it is, so the next few gifs should be of McLaurin, Gibson and either Allen Robinson/Corey Davis.

 

Where else are they going to go? New England? Cause they're loaded at the skill positions, right? Chicago? Will Allen Robinson still be there (probably will get tagged)? QBs have few options if they want to start, and it's unclear if the other places even want them. If Mariota got cut, what teams would: (1) want him; (2) pay him decent money; and (3) give him a realistic chance to start? The list is short and the same holds true for any other free agent QB.

[Burgold]

27 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

One thing for any QB, whether by free agency or trade; why would they really want to come here? 
 

 

The cup is actually well over half full.

 

A good QB knows the importance of a good defense.

A good QB would love a receiver like McLaurin.

A good QB would enjoy having pass catching backs like McKissic and Gibson

A good QB might even be intrigued by Logan Thomas.

A good QB might not mind taking the reins of a division leader with a lot of young players whose stars are rising.

 

Now, a good QB may look at our line and say, "Whoa! I'm not sure I'm lasting sixteen games and a good QB might say, "I need a couple more receivers," but we don't need to devalue our situation. I think the biggest thing going against Washington is our narrative. We're a team no one thinks about in a serious way. Under Gruden, we were a middling team or just below middling, before that we were worse than irrelevant unless you go all the way back to Gibbs II except during RGIII's rookie season where we scared the heck out of everyone.

[Koolblue13]

We have a WR1, RB1, TE1, top ten Oline, top 10 defense and ZERO QB1.

 

We also have a very respected coaching staff and a ton of cap money.

 

We're a better fit than all the teams drafting in front of us as well. 

 

We are a great option for Mariotta and a journeyman that thinks they'll be a future starter for a while.

[BurgundyBooger]

39 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

One thing for any QB, whether by free agency or trade; why would they really want to come here? 
 

 

 

We have a legit WR1, a dynamic RB, a stud tight-end who's a mismatch nightmare for defenses, and a strong defense.

 

Any QB with decent awareness would see that our offense was underutilized behind poor (DH) or average QB play. Under the condition of signing an additional weapon like an ARob, I can't think of a strong enough reason why a QB wouldn't want to come here.

[clskinsfan]

22 minutes ago, dyst said:

There is no reason to value this team right now. Yes we had a good defense but lots of holes on both side + we only won 7 games in probably the weakest division in NFL history.

We had the number 4 ranked defense in the league last year in yards allowed. And the number 3 ranked defense in points allowed. There is no value in that?

 

Edited March 6, 2021 by clskinsfan

[actorguy1]

When it comes to Heineke vs Allen. Heineke is only guaranteed $1.5 million for 2021. Everything else is incentives and team controlled.  He is not the defacto compete for starter/main backup. Alen is just as much a candidate for that position as well. 

[dyst]

36 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

We had the number 4 ranked defense in the league last year in yards allowed. And the number 3 ranked defense in points allowed. There is no value in that?

 

Well there is a reason why top end free agents usually  don’t consider Washington high on their list of destinations and it isn’t because of the weather. 

[Burgold]

4 minutes ago, dyst said:

Well there is a reason why top end free agents usually  don’t consider Washington high on their list of destinations and it isn’t because of the weather. 

It's also the first year, we've had a defense like that. Before last year, our defense has been utter trash. In fact, it's been really bad for ten years. Shanahan came over with Haslett in 2010, so we haven't had a defense that could stop a stiff breeze in longer than most NFL QBs playing careers. 

 

If the defense proves real, it'll probably still take a few years for our reputation in the league to correct, but who really cares. Through the early 2000's we were the league's number one stop for top end free agents. That was a road to high expectations and higher levels of failure. Now, Tampa succeeded in winning a Superbowl going the mercenary route, but most teams including the Redskins, Eagles, and Broncos have faced more disappointment than good times after loading up the roster with big names

 

Top free agents might not be bad as the cherry on top or a dash of spice, but they're a disaster when they are the centerpiece of your meal.

[skinny21]

3 minutes ago, dyst said:

Well there is a reason why top end free agents usually  don’t consider Washington high on their list of destinations and it isn’t because of the weather. 

Off the top of my head:

Snyder

GM (Allen gone)

We were a laughing stock for a time (we’re getting a lot more positive attention)

Coaching (RR is widely respected)

Taxes

Traffic

Relative lack of success (may be turning the corner)

Roster issues (QB is a big anchor, but otherwise we have a lot of positives and pretty easy to address negatives.  We also have a young roster with a bright future)

 

The 3 points without parenthesis aren’t changing, but the rest of the issues (aside from qb) sure look to be on the upswing.  Am I missing something?

[dyst]

6 minutes ago, Burgold said:

It's also the first year, we've had a defense like that. 

My argument is not that we will never have value, just that we don’t have value (relatively speaking) right now.

 

If this team shows consistency for two-three years consecutively with a strong defense and a cohesive group that plays hard while making the playoffs each of those year then I think free agents would be enticed.

 

As it stands, we have a few awesome pieces, a good one-year defense, a 7-win team in an awful division with an absolutely atrocious owner and an organization that has shown to regress after mediocre success rather than improve upon it.

 

So as a fan, I’m not surprised players don’t necessarily covet coming here...not yet at least. 

Edited March 6, 2021 by dyst

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, Rdskns2000 said:

One thing for any QB, whether by free agency or trade; why would they really want to come here? 
 

 

I think knowing the defense is mostly set so most of the offseason acquisitions will be made to improve the offense. If will be the focus for the front office. Knowing they have money to spend and knowing it was the offense that held the team back for most of the season thus needing to get better is exciting and tantalizing.

[Darth Tater]

1 hour ago, Rdskns2000 said:

One thing for any QB, whether by free agency or trade; why would they really want to come here? 
 

 

I would wonder why they wouldn't. Any QBs who we sign or trade for will get a real shot at starting at the very least and several would likely have the job all but handed to them (the starting job would be his to lose). You have a great defense, a potentially good running game and dump receivers (Gibson and McKissic) who have shown they can turn a checkdown into a big play. We had a guy who was operating on one leg who went 5-1, a guy who we got for a 5 who showed well (only reason he had losses were on him) and a street FA signed at the end of the season who did very well. So the offense system is probably QB friendly. A solid defense means you are probably not going to enter many Q4s in a no-win situation or worry that everytime you lead the team to a score the other guys make that score up. There is a really good chance that you may go from JAG QB to Tannehill status, at least. Any decent one would probably believe he could pull a Brady at Tampa.

 

Huge issues at QB were a starting QB (Haskins) who probably should not have been drafted when he was, a new regime (you are probably their handpicked guy, now), a pandemic that at best prevented us from making sure that Haskins was working on the right things (hard work is useless if you are not focusing on the right things) and could have given the leadership pause about the real ethic that Haskins was actually showing.  If you don't think Ron's cancer issues had a negative effect on our potential, you are sadly mistaken.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Burgold said:

The cup is actually well over half full.

 

A good QB knows the importance of a good defense.

A good QB would love a receiver like McLaurin.

A good QB would enjoy having pass catching backs like McKissic and Gibson

A good QB might even be intrigued by Logan Thomas.

A good QB might not mind taking the reins of a division leader with a lot of young players whose stars are rising.

 

Now, a good QB may look at our line and say, "Whoa! I'm not sure I'm lasting sixteen games and a good QB might say, "I need a couple more receivers," but we don't need to devalue our situation. I think the biggest thing going against Washington is our narrative. We're a team no one thinks about in a serious way. Under Gruden, we were a middling team or just below middling, before that we were worse than irrelevant unless you go all the way back to Gibbs II except during RGIII's rookie season where we scared the heck out of everyone.

 

PFF had our OL ranked as #6 in the NFL at the end of last season. That doesn't mean we don't want to continue to improve it, but we have a good unit right now, especially if we keep Scherff.

 

We have a lot of good pieces in place, we have a HC who is pretty much universally respected and admired around the league, and we've gotten rid of Allen and much of the cancerous FO from the past. 

 

We still have needs to address (WR2, TE2, LB, OT, CB) but we have lots of good young talent. I could see why a decent QB might want to come here. 

[Darth Tater]

2 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

If you dont think QB's value a good defense I dont know what to tell you. More opportunities through turnovers, better field position and overall winning more games has value for anyone playing under center. 

W-L records are a huge thing that will make you a big name even if your actual performance is mediocre (look how many people are upset we let Alex go). Great performance with a bad W-L record can make you a nothing. Little can be more depressing than a defense that wastes your efforts.

[Jericho]

1 hour ago, dyst said:

Well there is a reason why top end free agents usually  don’t consider Washington high on their list of destinations and it isn’t because of the weather. 

 

Washington's never really had trouble luring free agents here. They've signed plenty to many big $$ deals. The reality is that truly elite players don't hit free agency. They re-sign or get tagged. So you're already into second and third tier guys that you're trying to lure. But Washington has had no problem getting some to sign here. And yeah, no team ever signs all the free agents they want. There are 32 teams and a finite number if impact free agents. You're going to lose out on 4 out of 5 due to numbers alone. But there's nothing to suggest that there's some wide stigma against Washington. It's money that talks in free agency.

Edited March 6, 2021 by Jericho

[CapsSkins]

Keep in mind that the QB domino will affect the WR FA plan, too. If you're paying Dak $40M, you don't have enough money for Allen Robinson. You're looking at a guy like JuJu, instead. But if you sign Mariota at $10M, you have the $$ to throw at ARob.

[Jericho]

10 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Keep in mind that the QB domino will affect the WR FA plan, too. If you're paying Dak $40M, you don't have enough money for Allen Robinson. You're looking at a guy like JuJu, instead. But if you sign Mariota at $10M, you have the $$ to throw at ARob.

 

Robinson probably won't be a real free agent (he'll be tagged), so it might not matter. For that matter, Dak will 99% be tagged too. I think your best options in free agency will likely end up being JuJu at WR and probably Mariota (if cut) or Winston at QB. So $$ shouldn't be that big of a problem.

[CapsSkins]

Just now, Jericho said:

 

Robinson probably won't be a real free agent (he'll be tagged), so it might not matter. For that matter, Dak will 99% be tagged too. I think your best options in free agency will likely end up being JuJu at WR and probably Mariota (if cut) or Winston at QB. So $$ shouldn't be that big of a problem.

 

I'm okay with JuJu after reconsidering my position in the heat of the season when he was coming under scrutiny for all the TikTok stuff. Mostly because I don't think his market will be crazy, he's only 24 (younger than Terry!), and w/ McLaurin as our true #1 I think he'll put up great numbers like he did when he was opposite AB.

 

I'm hoping cap realities mean Lavonte David hits FA. I'd sooner throw money at him than the most expensive receiver target, whether that's ARob or Corey Davis or whoever is at the top of that list.