Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[88Comrade2000]

1 hour ago, Jericho said:

 

Mariota's got limited options if he's looking for a starting gig. I think it's basically Washington, New England, or Chicago. Otherwise he'll just be looking at a back-up job with possible upside (which is what he got with the Raiders in 2020). Maybe a place like Denver? Despite some internet rumors, not sure New England cares about Mariota. They had no QB last year and just passed on Mariota. Not sure what would have changed in 2021. Also not sure what Washington or Chicago think of him, but if I had to bet, it would be one of those two.

 

I remember some people on this board were talking about a Day 2 pick for Mariota. Madness. Hell even John Keim was talking about it:

 

 

Remember, this is silly season. Don't believe everything you read.

 

It's true it's just a stopgap, but a 2nd-4th round pick is basically just a back-up too. Plus the team already has Heinicke and Allen. Is the team going to assemble 4 bad QBs and hope they somehow form into one good one like Voltron?

If we sign a stopgap vet and draft a QB to develop; Allen is gone.

[Est.1974]

20 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

If we sign a stopgap vet and draft a QB to develop; Allen is gone.

I don’t see much point in Allen getting dropped straight away. I mean, when haven’t tendered him yet, perhaps that injury may linger throughout the offseason. But a 1mil ERFA deal seems a no-brainer. Could end up stashed on PUP or IR for example. 
 

I agree in principle it’s one too many in a numbers game right now, but not over the offseason, and if you pick up an injury, say Heinicke in camp, Allen is on the roster. 

[KillBill26]

^ strong odds that allen is a pup stash. This allows us to take a flier on another vet qb.  By mid season, if the 3 qbs on the active roster are all worthy of a roster spot, then you can make the best decision for the long haul. But considering how serious allen's injury was and the benefit of having extra time to sort the qb position out, why rush allen back.  

 

[FootballZombie]

All signs show Allen is on schedule and will be good to go in April. Barring some drastic move where we bring in an unquestioned QB1, bringing back Allen is a no-brainer. Even if we do, I can still see him probably coming back.

 

When it is time to make roster cuts in Aug-Sept, then you have a numbers game to deal with if you also have another vet and a rookie, but right now, there is no such problem. It might even solve itself since him and taylor are both so injury prone. Decent chance one of them will be in position to be on PUP... especially if we have a preseason.

 

We have nothing at the QB position and Allen is dirt cheap. Easiest front office choice in the history of the NFL as it stands right now.

Edited March 6, 2021 by FootballZombie

[Koolblue13]

Allen starts on the PUP and by the time he's ready to play again, Heinicke should be ready for IR.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, smooth said:

i kinda like Darnold too! Still young , and hasnt had anything in new york to work with team has been garbage! 

 

Besides the Jets stinking what's your argument for Darnold?  I'd love for someone to sell me on specifics on Darnold.  I've been really trying.  If I had to sell him it would be boots -- rolling in the pocket and making plays on the move. 

 

The best game I've watched of his ironically was against us but even in that one he had his token pick and had another pick dropped.  I could buy Darnold much easier if he wasn't a turnover machine which is something that was a worry back in college, too.  Not sure how you fix that but I gather some team is going to try.

 

I'd easily go Mariota over Darnold because he doesn't have turnover issues and has some serious wheels.  Not that I love Mariota either. 

5 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

Mariota's got limited options if he's looking for a starting gig. I think it's basically Washington, New England, or Chicago. Otherwise he'll just be looking at a back-up job with possible upside (which is what he got with the Raiders in 2020). Maybe a place like Denver? Despite some internet rumors, not sure New England cares about Mariota. They had no QB last year and just passed on Mariota. Not sure what would have changed in 2021. Also not sure what Washington or Chicago think of him, but if I had to bet, it would be one of those two.

 

I remember some people on this board were talking about a Day 2 pick for Mariota. Madness. Hell even John Keim was talking about it:

 

 

Remember, this is silly season. Don't believe everything you read.

 

It's true it's just a stopgap, but a 2nd-4th round pick is basically just a back-up too. Plus the team already has Heinicke and Allen. Is the team going to assemble 4 bad QBs and hope they somehow form into one good one like Voltron?

 

We know that WFT likes Mariota considering multiple sources (local and national) said we tried to trade for him.  I gather the hold up is teams want Mariota to renegotiate his contract and he's not willing to do it -- hence per the article I put up last night they'd have to release him.  The contract is what devalues him as an asset in a trade.  Many articles linking NE interest.  Will see. 

Edited March 6, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

10 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

Did you... not read the entire post?

It's important to read more than 6 words.

 

Of course I did, got the humor. The 6 words felt worthy of the emoticon.

10 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Used this one earlier and liked it, so I'm bringing it back:

 

It's hilarious! I'd have kept something that good in my back pocket for something more relevant.  

 

[Skinsinparadise]

We may now know the reason why the Marcus Mariota trade talks have slowed down considerably.

 

Veteran NFL reporter Greg Bedard of the Boston Sports Journal wrote that Mariota has not been open to restructuring his contract as part of a trade from the Las Vegas Raiders.

That is a logical explanation because there were many reports saying a trade was likely. But in recent days, there has been talk that a trade could be unlikely and teams are losing interest in a deal.

Mariota is set to make $10.7 million this season. But if he is a starter, he would make more than $22 million. Teams are reluctant to pay that and, it now seems, Mariota is not willing to budge.

If the Raiders cut him, he can discuss a deal with several teams and get the best price.

So, the Mariota saga continues for the Raiders.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/silver-minings-marcus-mariota-is-not-making-a-trade-from-raiders-easy/ar-BB1ehoEB?ocid=st

[FrFan]

 

[mistertim]

4 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

If we sign a stopgap vet and draft a QB to develop; Allen is gone.

 

Why? Allen is cheap and played pretty well in his limited action last season. IMO if we sign a decent stopgap vet, Allen an ideal backup if he's back to full health. He's young, proven that he can play in the league, and he's a decent but not great QB.

 

If he's not back to full health, stash him on PUP for now.

[HigSkin]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

We may now know the reason why the Marcus Mariota trade talks have slowed down considerably.

 

Veteran NFL reporter Greg Bedard of the Boston Sports Journal wrote that Mariota has not been open to restructuring his contract as part of a trade from the Las Vegas Raiders.

That is a logical explanation because there were many reports saying a trade was likely. But in recent days, there has been talk that a trade could be unlikely and teams are losing interest in a deal.

Mariota is set to make $10.7 million this season. But if he is a starter, he would make more than $22 million. Teams are reluctant to pay that and, it now seems, Mariota is not willing to budge.

If the Raiders cut him, he can discuss a deal with several teams and get the best price.

So, the Mariota saga continues for the Raiders.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/silver-minings-marcus-mariota-is-not-making-a-trade-from-raiders-easy/ar-BB1ehoEB?ocid=st

 

I can't get my head wrapped around this Mariota dilemma. 

 

If we take on his contract via trade you're paying a lot of money to a guy who may not beat out the guys we will have on the roster (Allen or TH) and if he hits the market, multiple teams are going to still inflate what he's really worth.  Hard to have a backup on your roster paying him $10-15 mil when you're potentially paying your starters $4-5 mil.  RR said there'd be open competition at the position.

 

I really get the feeling Mariota isn't going to be a part of this team and we're headed to the draft for another QB.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/washingtonfootball/news/qb-trade-rumor-marcus-mariota-has-washington-football-team-extremely-interested

 

We're betting Lombardi has the right answer on Mariota in terms of Washington's interest. But Mariota vs. all the other potential options? That issue brings up more questions, at this time, than it does answers.

 

 

Edited March 6, 2021 by HigSkin

[Skinsinparadise]

I am thinking this is the week that Mariota is released or traded and Darnold is traded.  You'd think they'd want to do it before FA in part because are teams really that convinced either guy is a mile better than the options at FA?  

[tmandoug1]

Would the Mariota contract be worth it if they threw in another player? Not sure how that works....maybe Nelson Agholor?

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

I can't get my head wrapped around this Mariota dilemma. 

 

If we take on his contract via trade you're paying a lot of money to a guy who may not beat out the guys we will have on the roster (Allen or TH) and if he hits the market, multiple teams are going to still inflate what he's really worth.  Hard to have a backup on your roster paying him $10-15 mil when you're potentially paying your starters $4-5 mil.  RR said there'd be open competition at the position.

 

I really get the feeling Mariota isn't going to be a part of this team and we're headed to the draft for another QB.

 

Maybe.  I am not really sweating it.  The only thing I sweat is Darnold and for him its not that I am very opposed to rolling the dice on him but I am very opposed to to the 2nd rounder and change trade compensation that it would supposedly take -- that 2nd rounder could be someone like Brevin Jordan or Rondale Moore.   If it was Darnold for a 4th, I'd lose no sleep on it.

 

As for Mariota he's my favorite of the 2nd tier type options.  Based on what I've read, Mariota's agent is taking advantage of the current contract by forcing the Raiders to release him and thus he can pick his next spot.  I doubt Mariota will be able to match that contract in FA.  I like him as a roll the dice type but not as a 20 million plus type.    

 

That's the other issue to me with Darnold.   He's staring at a 25 million 5th year option.  What if he plays this season and its somewhat of a purgatory year where you can't quite tell?  Do you just see the 2nd rounder and change as sunk cost and move on or take a chance and pay him 25 million?    With Mariota FA might present a challenge from the context of do you give him multiple years and would he take a deal like that or bet on himself for one year and hope for a big payday the following year?

Edited March 6, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

4 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

I can't get my head wrapped around this Mariota dilemma. 

 

If we take on his contract via trade you're paying a lot of money to a guy who may not beat out the guys we will have on the roster (Allen or TH) and if he hits the market, multiple teams are going to still inflate what he's really worth.  Hard to have a backup on your roster paying him $10-15 mil when you're potentially paying your starters $4-5 mil.  RR said there'd be open competition at the position.

 

I really get the feeling Mariota isn't going to be a part of this team and we're headed to the draft for another QB.

Agreed, can't see them trading for him at this point if he doesn't wish to rework his contract. Give up assets and that much money isn't worth it. 

If they are smitten with him, the can try working out a contract at that point. I find it hard see a number of teams willing to throw big money at this guy.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

Would the Mariota contract be worth it if they threw in another player? Not sure how that works....maybe Nelson Agholor?

 

Agholor is a FA.  I don't think I'd want Mariota if he can make 22 million. 

Edited March 6, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Jericho]

6 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

If we sign a stopgap vet and draft a QB to develop; Allen is gone.

 

There's a non-zero chance Allen is the best QB on the roster. That says more about the alternatives than it does about Allen. I don't fancy Allen as some solution. But the coaching staff loves him (don't underestimate this), he's dirt cheap, and most of the alternatives carry huge question marks. Also, the idea that Allen is still so injured to go on the PUP in September are remote.

[Jericho]

1 hour ago, tmandoug1 said:

Would the Mariota contract be worth it if they threw in another player? Not sure how that works....maybe Nelson Agholor?

 

Why would Oakland do that? They can cut Mariota for free. They don't need to pay someone to take him.

 

I also don't understand why people thought Mariota would restructure and are acting like this is some "new" development. Let's me think...option a is the Raiders foist me on whatever team they want and I voluntarily take less money or option b is I do nothing, get cut, go wherever I want, start a bidding war, and still get paid. Mariota only takes option a if you make it worth his time ( i.e. pay him a bunch of money), which teams are not willing to do as they want him to earn less.

[Hitman#21]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Allen starts on the PUP and by the time he's ready to play again, Heinicke should be ready for IR.

I spit out my drink

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am thinking this is the week that Mariota is released or traded and Darnold is traded.  You'd think they'd want to do it before FA in part because are teams really that convinced either guy is a mile better than the options at FA?  

 

Jets really sold it to the media they are holding Darnold til April.

 

Meaning:

 

1. They are getting crap offers

 

2. They really don't know what they're doing 

[evmiii]

Mariota is playing this smartly.  He will be able to shop himself to teams that he can at least compete to be the starter.  I fully expect his market value will be less than his current contract but more than his play so far warrants.  If he truly thinks he is starter worthy, he probably ends up with a 1 year prove it contract betting he can set himself up in a better contract next year.  That might work for the WFT.

 

[mistertim]

I doubt Mariota wants to go to a team where it's obvious he's just a stopgap for a year or two (unless it's for a lot of money). If he has a choice (and I'm assuming at least a few teams will be vying for his services) I'm guessing he'll go to a team where he thinks they're hoping he'll end up being "the guy" and their long term solution.

 

If it's obvious that we only want him for a year or two and are still looking to upgrade the position (probably through the draft), but another team wants him for longer and made it clear in negotiations that they hope to have him as a long term answer, he's going to go with that second team.

 

Not that Mariota's play has really dictated that he should assume to be the guy when he goes anywhere, but the QB FA pickings are going to be slim, especially if Winston returns to NO. 

 

If we're looking for a 1 or 2 year stopgap while we draft our QB of the future I'd rather go with Fitz personally. I think he's better than Mariota anyway. And at his age and his history, he's obviously fine with being a short term stopgap. He'll probably cost less than Mariota as well.

[evmiii]

I agree, I’m just not sure any team is going to commit to Mariota long term.  I understand the supply vs demand issues with all the QB needs out there, but he has several years as a starter and lost his job to Ryan Tannehill.  Now he backs up Derrick Carr.  I think in the right circumstance he could still be successful, I’m just not sure where that is right now.  I think his skill set does match up to Scott Turners offense pretty well and the WFT might be the best match; but I don’t think Ron wants to put all his marbles in that basket.

[88Comrade2000]

3 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Why? Allen is cheap and played pretty well in his limited action last season. IMO if we sign a decent stopgap vet, Allen an ideal backup if he's back to full health. He's young, proven that he can play in the league, and he's a decent but not great QB.

 

If he's not back to full health, stash him on PUP for now.

The stopgap would be battling with Heinicke for the starting job. The winner the starter, loser backup. Drafted QB would be third string. No room for a 4th QB. Yeah, we can stash Allen on pup but if he can play; I think he will asked to be let go, to have a shot elsewhere.

[88Comrade2000]

One thing for any QB, whether by free agency or trade; why would they really want to come here? 
 

 

[Koolblue13]

He isn't automatically a stop gap coming here. We have no starter and no replacement and we made the playoffs. He could come in and play great and own the job. Most of the QBless teams are all ahead of us in the draft making them a worse situation. We have 2 QBs who generally don't play football and a PS guy. There is nowhere better for a still young QB to go.

Just now, Rdskns2000 said:

One thing for any QB, whether by free agency or trade; why would they really want to come here?