Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

They aren't trading Cohen.  Plus, they know we'll cut Alex and save the 13 million.  

 

I know.  I was joking. 

[mistertim]

How about Alex Smith for Gardner Minshew's mustache?

[kingdaddy]

I tripled down last week and am now gonna go quattro down on Cam Newton joining the WFT sometime after free agency begins...it just makes too much sense. Cam tries to revive his career with RR but has to compete with the two younger guys to win the job. Even if he loses the job he still has packages where he's our wildcat and short yardage guy. He will fit in very well here if he can accept his role after being beaten out by Heiny or Allen. He's cheap, knows the system and RR trusts him....he's the perfect insurance if the other two get hurt and he may even beat them out. Cam is also still fairly young by QB standards. This signing also will not mean we can't draft a young guy....if we have one fall to us. It also allows us to keep all of our draft picks to keep building. One more thing, with so little money tied up in QB's we are gonna be able to spread the wealth throughout the roster in free agency. Get ready for a great free agency ride. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

6 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I tripled down last week and am now gonna go quattro down on Cam Newton joining the WFT sometime after free agency begins...it just makes too much sense. Cam tries to revive his career with RR but has to compete with the two younger guys to win the job. Even if he loses the job he still has packages where he's our wildcat and short yardage guy. He will fit in very well here if he can accept his role after being beaten out by Heiny or Allen. He's cheap, knows the system and RR trusts him....he's the perfect insurance if the other two get hurt and he may even beat them out. Cam is also still fairly young by QB standards. This signing also will not mean we can't draft a young guy....if we have one fall to us. It also allows us to keep all of our draft picks to keep building. One more thing, with so little money tied up in QB's we are gonna be able to spread the wealth throughout the roster in free agency. Get ready for a great free agency ride. 

The only thing that makes sense about this is that Ron Rivera has had a conversation with him before, which means there's a 99% chance he'll be on the team.

[mistertim]

RR could have had Cam last year and wasn't interested. He even gave up a draft pick for the Panther's other QB instead. Why would he suddenly do a 180?

[Conn]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

RR could have had Cam last year and wasn't interested. He even gave up a draft pick for the Panther's other QB instead. Why would he suddenly do a 180?

Because he’s not obligated to give a second year 1st round QB a fair shake first, this time around. That was obviously the disqualifying factor last year or he probably would have been here then. He couldn’t bring in a superstar personality like Cam at that time and have it be believable that it was Haskins’ job to sink or swim with. 

[kingdaddy]

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

RR could have had Cam last year and wasn't interested. He even gave up a draft pick for the Panther's other QB instead. Why would he suddenly do a 180?

He decided to give Haskins the job....and if you listen to his comments he regrets that. He's gonna have a competition this year and I'm betting Cam is part of it. Cam = comfort and insurance for RR for many reasons. I think RR regrets not signing Cam last year. Just my opinion...also, Hurley drafted Cam in Carolina. That has to be considered. 

[NYSkins21]

12 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I tripled down last week and am now gonna go quattro down on Cam Newton joining the WFT sometime after free agency begins...it just makes too much sense. Cam tries to revive his career with RR but has to compete with the two younger guys to win the job. Even if he loses the job he still has packages where he's our wildcat and short yardage guy. He will fit in very well here if he can accept his role after being beaten out by Heiny or Allen. He's cheap, knows the system and RR trusts him....he's the perfect insurance if the other two get hurt and he may even beat them out. Cam is also still fairly young by QB standards. This signing also will not mean we can't draft a young guy....if we have one fall to us. It also allows us to keep all of our draft picks to keep building. One more thing, with so little money tied up in QB's we are gonna be able to spread the wealth throughout the roster in free agency. Get ready for a great free agency ride. 

This is exactly how I'm feeling right now. As FA approaches, I'm becoming more and more pro-Cam. For several reasons as you've stated above.

 

I'd much rather Cam come in  knowing the system, knowing the coaches rather than an adjustment period with someone like Mariotta, Darnold or Fitz. Not to mention the draft capital it would take to acquire them.

 

Sign Cam and go heavy adding weapons for him at WR, OL and TE. Would love to see them add both Robinson and Samuel if they could.

 

If Ron, Turner and company want to bring him in to start, I trust the process. No one knows him better.

 

[mistertim]

10 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Because he’s not obligated to give a second year 1st round QB a fair shake first, this time around. That was obviously the disqualifying factor last year or he probably would have been here then. He couldn’t bring in a superstar personality like Cam at that time and have it be believable that it was Haskins’ job to sink or swim with. 

 

IMO one problem is that Cam is now a superstar personality without the superstar play. So you might end up getting the bad part of a superstar personality without the good play to balance it out. Not sure it's worth it to be honest.

[wit33]

3 hours ago, TheShredder said:

Cam Newton tore his rotator cuff in week 14 of the 2016 season. 

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article225040560.html

He tried to play through it, which means he made the tear worse, until the end of the year.  He didn't have surgery until March 2017.   What happens is scar tissue forms a patch around the tear.  With this type of time, imagine a significant amount of scar tissue forms that limits the range of motion in the shoulder.  This drastically affects throwing motion.  Additionally, rehabilitation to get through that scar tissue, to release the limitations in range of motion, didn't happen.  He had a second 'clean up' surgery in January 2019.  This 'clean up' surgery is meant to surgically release the limitations in the range of motion from the scar tissue that has solidified his ability to rotate his shoulder. 

So, what happened to Cam Newton and where is he at now is the big Q.  Well, his shoulder mechanics before he tore his rotator cuff and after are different.  He's not regained full range of motion and he never will.  Period.  End of argument here.  The range of motion he has now is what he has.  It's been too long to regain full range of motion.  So now, what does that mean for Cam Newton?  You can check out the video about his comparison between his throwing mechanics before the injury and after to see that the decrease in range of motion has caused other mechanical issues that pile onto his inaccuracy. 

My opinion is that you should pass on Cam Newton.  He will not become more accurate or the thrower he was before Week 14 of the 2016 season. 

 

I appreciate the effort on his part, but there was zero value in this video. The plays he broke down were situationally different as far distance of throws and one pocket being clean and other not. Was looking forward to seeing some one break down how is arm strength has changed, but didn’t get that from this. 
 

Not that I don’t believe having shoulder surgery hasn’t made an impact just curious to how much. It obviously wasn’t enough for the GOAT coach of all time to make him his starter, you know. Newton obviously has to tryout for Pats. 
 

 

 

[Conn]

47 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

IMO one problem is that Cam is now a superstar personality without the superstar play. So you might end up getting the bad part of a superstar personality without the good play to balance it out. Not sure it's worth it to be honest.

I’m not even sure I’m 100% on board with it unless it’s dirt cheap, but I think Cam has a bit of a bad rep, unfairly, for a multitude of reasons that I won’t get into here—and I think he’s more humble/humbled than people realize. A guy like Cam with a chip on his shoulder and a clear understanding of his current skill-set and the stakes this next season holds for his future in the league could be an intriguing asset imo, absent better options at the position that right now seem unlikely to be within our grasp.
 

To bust it down to the simplest terms, if his head is where I perceive it to be rather than where some detractors perceive it to be (and there’s no way to know, but Rivera has a better shot at being right than anyone else), and we can’t get a coveted rookie prospect or trade for an established stud, I think going into to the season WITH him along with Heinicke and the rest rather than WITHOUT him is certainly safer than many think and potentially raises our ceiling. It at least makes us more dangerous in the red zone if his role as a competitor for the job and not the Chosen One is made clear. Fans disliking his personality would just have to get over it, but that’s a whole different discussion that we don’t need to have here. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by ConnSKINS26

[mistertim]

32 minutes ago, wit33 said:

I appreciate the effort on his part, but there was zero value in this video. The plays he broke down were situationally different as far distance of throws and one pocket being clean and other not. Was looking forward to seeing some one break down how is arm strength has changed, but didn’t get that from this. 
 

Not that I don’t believe having shoulder surgery hasn’t made an impact just curious to how much. It obviously wasn’t enough for the GOAT coach of all time to make him his starter, you know. Newton obviously has to tryout for Pats. 

 

I'm still not convinced that Belichick is a genius coach. I think he's a good coach who happened to luck into the GOAT QB and rode that for the majority of his HC career. Tom Brady went elsewhere and won another SB, not Bill B.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

39 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

He decided to give Haskins the job....and if you listen to his comments he regrets that. He's gonna have a competition this year and I'm betting Cam is part of it. Cam = comfort and insurance for RR for many reasons. I think RR regrets not signing Cam last year. Just my opinion...also, Hurley drafted Cam in Carolina. That has to be considered. 

Did you watch Cam play last year?  He is more done than Alex. Way more done.  If we are going after has beens as a bridge for a year, get Fitzmagic.  At least he gives you a sluggers chance to win while building the rest of the team.  The last few years have sucked just about every drop of care out of me. But every time I get the 45 year itch come back a little we do something like sign Cam Newton. So I'm sure we will. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

I could live with Cam as a bridge qb on a friendly contract.  And I think he’ll play pretty well.

 

But were all gonna be screaming for Heinicke by week 5.  Bet.

[ODU AGGIE]

42 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

I could live with Cam as a bridge qb on a friendly contract.  And I think he’ll play pretty well.

 

But were all gonna be screaming for Heinicke by week 5.  Bet.

Won't take that long.

[tmandoug1]

So now we are down to wanting Cam.......total thread breakdown. 

[TheShredder]

10 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

So now we are down to wanting Cam.......total thread breakdown. 

I'm not sure that's the vibe, rather it's a clear matter of them bringing in competition.  So basically breaking down every QB that could possible be in play until they make a move.  Just something to do! 

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

I appreciate the effort on his part, but there was zero value in this video. The plays he broke down were situationally different as far distance of throws and one pocket being clean and other not. Was looking forward to seeing some one break down how is arm strength has changed, but didn’t get that from this. 
 

Not that I don’t believe having shoulder surgery hasn’t made an impact just curious to how much. It obviously wasn’t enough for the GOAT coach of all time to make him his starter, you know. Newton obviously has to tryout for Pats. 
 

 

 

Clearly I don't like the idea of Cam but the one thing that was obvious in his throwing motion corresponds to the issues with his shoulder as you can see the decreased range of motion.  I think that is what value the video has.  The mechanics with his footwork are off badly.  Could be a combination of bad habits for compensating for lack of range in the shoulder.  His year with the Pats was terrible. Plagued by inaccuracy and literally unable to complete basic short passes.  You can't say the GOAT coach nailed that one bro. 

[PartyPosse]

39 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

So now we are down to wanting Cam.......total thread breakdown. 

I don’t think anyone wants him but it’s nice to know that if we completely flub the QB market and get no one, he’ll always be available if we decide not to give Heinie the job.

[Burgundy Yoda]

I wish we got to see more of Kyle Allen, just to get a better idea of what we have in him. He was more elusive than I thought he was, and was pretty accurate. I honestly can't sit here and say I'm not sold on him after how he played, he was solid, looked like he belonged. 

 

He was never able to get into a rhythm his first game because Aaron Donald was absolutely dominating Wes Martin and got 4 sacks on us. Hopefully he never sees the field again. 

 

But after that he looked good against the Giants and Cowboys, then he got injured the next game against the Giants. He only attempted 87 passes on the season. It just wasn't enough of a sample size. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[86 Snyder]

Id so much rather have Fitz than Cam, and I've been a fan of his.  I just don't trust him to operate a passing game anymore though and think Terry and whoever we sign in free agency would really suffer.  Feel like he's completely washed but I do like the guy and have throughout his career.

 

More I think about it, Fitz is my first choice in the free agent vet market pretty easily.  

[Est.1974]

Smith to the Bears for a mid round pick will do. Finishing his career there has been touted for a longtime already.

 

Contract won’t be a problem, he’ll restructure for his buddy there. Watch Smiths reactions on that comeback award video, very easy to read him.

[Est.1974]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

IF...???...are they living under a rock, he’s done here...can someone just send Nagy the phone number for one of our FO execs 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

2021 Starting WFT QB?
The year of Who the Hell knows...

 

LOL.

 

For the record, I like Cam, he was/is an amazing player. His perceived attitude issues are not a concern at all, as he’s gotten older, he’s evolved, and grown up a lot. Nothing but respect for the guy.

 

 He definitely brings a couple big concerns. The first being his Passing stats. He had 8 TD’s (33rd) and 10 InT’s (18th) in 15 games. That is is a tough one to sell in a passing league.  He can still run it very well as his 12TD’s and almost 600 yds illustrate. 

 

The second would be the injuries which many would point to as the reason for the passing stats. But as this article looks at he’s been deficient in that department for quite some time. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/why-an-ailing-cam-newton-does-not-belong-in-patriots-qb-plans-for-2021/amp/ 

I’ll ride w/ whomever Ron picks, and would be rooting like hell Cam balled.  The numbers aren’t pretty, we’ll see, I hope we pull a rabbit out of the hat soon on a better option. 
 

What a weird season for the QB market.

Edited February 25, 2021 by COWBOY-KILLA-

[fearlessNelms]

I've said how I feel about Newton on here already and just to nutshell it- I think he stinks. That said, if we decide to sign him and he ultimately ends up our starting QB in 2021, I will root like hell for him to succeed.

 

And if he plays well and is the leader we need at the QB position, I will be the first to come on here and gladly admit I was completely wrong about the guy. It certainly wouldn't be the first time I was wrong about a player.

 

That's why these conversations are great. Everyone has opinions and though I disagree with many of them- including the pro Newton ones- I respect all of them. 

 

 

[TheShredder]

1 hour ago, fearlessNelms said:

I've said how I feel about Newton on here already and just to nutshell it- I think he stinks.

When I hear Cam Newton this visual pops into my mind.