Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[wit33]

10 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

I thought Cam Newton was one of the best QB prospects to ever enter the draft. So yes. I was a fan. 

Okay, was curious if the play style/running QB was something you didn’t like.

 

Thought on rest of post?

[ODU AGGIE]

4 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

I agree, kind of. Heinecke has a lot more of a ceiling (younger, but unproven). Cam has a safer floor (older, lost a step, but proven).

 

The case I made above is actually not a slight to Heinecke at all. It's that I think Cam complements him and vice versa. Whoever wins the job will be better for it. Heinecke beating out Cam may have more to do with his abilities than Cam's lack of abilities. If he loses to Cam, he's still a solid backup that could pinch-hit if Cam falters. I think Cam-Heinecke as your QB1 and QB2 sets you up for having a certain floor, while also leaving open the chance Heinecke emerges with a new consistent ceiling, if that makes sense.

Responding to both you and DM: First, my comment was at least a little bit tongue-in-cheek. But secondly, I took the category "cheap QB's" as a serious part of the equation, and there just isn't a QB available with TH skills as cheap as he is. Both of your posts make good points -- just don't overlook the obvious answer to a cheap skilled QB. Cheers!

[clskinsfan]

5 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Okay, was curious if the play style/running QB was something you didn’t like.

 

Thought on rest of post?

I kind of agree with what was posted above. Cam has not been the same player since being injured. Watch this video of Heineke in the Panthers game. The guy gives you everything Cam does right now. And for far less money. Heineke can play. Look at the number of dropped balls in this video. The passes were perfect. Almost all of them. the problem with Heineke is he is going to get hurt. He just is. 

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by clskinsfan

[wit33]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I like Cam, old school Cam pre 2nd shoulder surgery.  I've just not seen the old Cam since.  Two shoulder surgeries seemed to effect his arm strength or something that has made him at times painful to watch.    When he was at his best, he wasn't the most accurate dude but he could do enough with his arm to make enough of an impact when you couple that his running ability.

 

For me to buy into Cam I'd need to be convinced that Ron and company are convinced the old Cam is back.  Otherwise if we are going with a dude who can run but is questionable as a passer, I don't see much difference in that with Tyrod Taylor.   Like Cam, Taylor can run for 500 yards plus.

 

Neither would be my pick in FA.  For me its Fitzpatrick. 

Cam has obviously been a franchise guy and had offenses built around him, but he’s shown to be more dynamic in the run game over a Tyrod Taylor. Newton can still capture an edge and provides a unique power element in short yardage and goal to go situation. If talking situational football those are two critical pieces to a “situational game puzzle”. The familiarity with the scheme and staff also increases his value for this team. For me, it’s more than just yards, you know. 
 

Not the biggest supporter of Fitzpatricks game and would prefer the known variables Cam Newton projects to provide next season, but I get the Fitz love. I’d instantly become a supporter post his first interview with the team lol. 
 

We’re talking scraps here, I don’t love everything about Cam and realize limitations exist with him in the pass game, which would be frustrating.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

@clskinsfan but I think the "far less money" part is negligible here. I personally feel better going into 2021 with Cam + Heinecke than I do with Heinecke + Allen.

 

Cam signed a 1 year, $5m deal in NE last year. I have read that he'd likely get around that for another prove-it year, maybe a 2-year deal with incentives, etc. but if he isn't our starting QB he's probably not seeing more than $8m this year, which isn't an insignificant amount of $$, but if he's your starter than means Heinecke isn't ... and thus, he's better than Heinecke. And I guess that's my point. Having Cam and Heinecke battle it out takes pressure off having to go find a rookie QB to compete in Year 1. Or to go get a veteran you have to give away picks for or substantially more money for. Ride Cam and Heinecke. Shoot, if Heinecke wins the camp battle that probably bodes really well for us, and he's backed up by a very capable guy who knows the system and isn't costing a fortune.

 

If you can then draft a QB like Lance (okay, maybe you guys are right and he doesnt slip) ... so lets just say a Jamie Newman ... then you have some real potential in that QB room and you haven't given up the farm to do so. I guess the worst case is that QB room ends up being very average. But very average is okay with this defense, because we can compete with very average. We don't win super bowls with very average, but at least you aren't selling out to take a dart throw at the position and can re-approach it in 2022 with a different lens and probably a much better defense and supporting cast on offense, because you spend the draft capital and FA money elsewhere.

Edited February 24, 2021 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Burgundy Yoda]

22 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

It's certainly a loaded class and there are way more teams that need a QB than normal, so if there is a year for it to happen, this is the year. But I'm pretty sure 4 QBs haven't gone Top 10 in a very long time. And now that there's talk that Mac Jones could enter the Top 10 conversations makes me wonder if someone like Lance, who is a higher-risk pick, does end up sliding a bit as the QB4 or even QB5 on some draft boards.

 

I bet there are some teams that have a Late Round 1 grade on him simply because of his lack of tape and competition in college. And while that still means he's a Top 15-20 pick by pure attrition, it might lead to some teams passing on him in the Top 10.

 

Like, if Carolina has Lance as a late-Round 1 prospect and Mac Jones as a mid-R1 prospect, then at pick 8 they probably go with Jones. Now, if they have Lance as a Top 10 and Mac as a mid-1st, they obviously go with Lance. But we have no idea what these teams are thinking.

Yeah, this is definitely the draft for it, I agree with you. I mean that's 4 in the top 8, in 2012 3 went in the top 8. I like Lance's ceiling and I'm hoping teams think he's not refined enough for a top 10 selection. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the CBs go top 10, but this really isn't a good top heavy draft on defense. Okudah and Young were better prospects than anyone coming out this year. If there were more sound defensive prospects coming out, you could see a QB slide a little further, but it's just not great at the top IMO. 

 

So really, if you don't include the top 3 QBs in Lawrence, Fields, and Wilson, you have 4 positions open before Carolina's selection (who I'm really hoping just goes all in for Watson at this point). I'd say the other top players in the draft are Penei Sewell, Ja'Marr Chase, Devonta Smith, Kyle Pitts, and you can maybe throw Parsons in there if you think his character concerns are overblown. After that Lance probably belongs in the Slater, Surtain II, Farley, and Waddle group so there's a shot of him going really high honestly.

 

Our entire division is a wildcard with QBs too. Dak's situation is up in the air, Eagles shouldn't be sold on Jalen Hurts, especially after only completing 52% of his passes, and Daniel Jones is uninspiring and may have a lower ceiling than originally thought. One of them could really surprise and take a QB because they know damn well we want and need a QB. 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[wit33]

5 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

I kind of agree with what was posted above. Cam has not been the same player since being injured. Watch this video of Heineke in the Panthers game. The guy gives you everything Cam does right now. And for far less money. Heineke can play. Look at the number of dropped balls in this video. The passes were perfect. Almost all of them. the problem with Heineke is he is going to get hurt. He just is. 

 

Im with you and the go against the norm in me would fully support Ron and company going all in on Taylor. 
 

I like the idea of rolling with Taylor and Kyle and spending big on supporting pieces and keeping the core of the defense together. I also can understand the trepidation to do so. 

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Cam has obviously been a franchise guy and had offenses built around him, but he’s shown to be more dynamic in the run game over a Tyrod Taylor. Newton can still capture an edge and provides a unique power element in short yardage and goal to go situation. If talking situational football those are two critical pieces to a “situational game puzzle”. The familiarity with the scheme and staff also increases his value for this team. For me, it’s more than just yards, you know. 
 

Not the biggest supporter of Fitzpatricks game and would prefer the known variables Cam Newton projects to provide next season, but I get the Fitz love. I’d instantly become a supporter post his first interview with the team lol. 
 

We’re talking scraps here, I don’t love everything about Cam and realize limitations exist with him in the pass game, which would be frustrating.

 

T. Taylor is underrated as a runner.  He's super mobile.  I don't think he's as limited as today's version of Cam as a passer at least based on some of Cam's NE games in that later part of the season but he's not hot as a passer either.   Neither one gets me jazzed unless Cam somehow regains whatever he lost post 2nd shoulder surgery. 

 

As for Fitzpatrick, if you want intangibles, that's the guy, the players love him.  He's fun and clutch.  He's also a wild ride.  Downs with the ups. Main reason why i am not a Darnold guy is the price but the 2nd reason is you get even lower lows than you would with Fitzpatrick as for turnovers but without the upside of moving the ball down the field -- unless Darnold regains his USC form where you'd have the same lows but you'd get highs more similar to Fitzpatrick with more upside.   

 

If I am picking anyone cheap, my fav would be Mariota.   Fitzpatrick next favorite.  I don't love either.  But those would be my two favorite roll of the dice QBs. 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[drowland]

20 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

I agree, kind of. Heinecke has a lot more of a ceiling (younger, but unproven). Cam has a safer floor (older, lost a step, but proven).

 

The case I made above is actually not a slight to Heinecke at all. It's that I think Cam complements him and vice versa. Whoever wins the job will be better for it. Heinecke beating out Cam may have more to do with his abilities than Cam's lack of abilities. If he loses to Cam, he's still a solid backup that could pinch-hit if Cam falters. I think Cam-Heinecke as your QB1 and QB2 sets you up for having a certain floor, while also leaving open the chance Heinecke emerges with a new consistent ceiling, if that makes sense.

 

It's certainly a loaded class and there are way more teams that need a QB than normal, so if there is a year for it to happen, this is the year. But I'm pretty sure 4 QBs haven't gone Top 10 in a very long time. And now that there's talk that Mac Jones could enter the Top 10 conversations makes me wonder if someone like Lance, who is a higher-risk pick, does end up sliding a bit as the QB4 or even QB5 on some draft boards.

 

I bet there are some teams that have a Late Round 1 grade on him simply because of his lack of tape and competition in college. And while that still means he's a Top 15-20 pick by pure attrition, it might lead to some teams passing on him in the Top 10.

 

Like, if Carolina has Lance as a late-Round 1 prospect and Mac Jones as a mid-R1 prospect, then at pick 8 they probably go with Jones. Now, if they have Lance as a Top 10 and Mac as a mid-1st, they obviously go with Lance. But we have no idea what these teams are thinking.

 

You had 4 QBs in the top 10 just a few years ago in 2018.  The key might be Denver to have 4 in this top 10.  Elway passed on Josh Allen in 2018.  Would he pass on Lance?  I know Elway turned things over to a GM but I'd think he'll still be heavily involved with finding the QB. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I'd pile this on to the shoulder surgeries.  Cam is a tale of two cities.  The old Cam and the new one IMO.  The old Cam IMO is irrelevant to the discussion unless there is an argument that he somehow regains his form over time. 

 

 

 

[mistertim]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Taylor is underrated as a runner.  He's super mobile.  I don't think he's as limited as todays version of Cam as a passer at least based on some of Cam's NE games in that later part of the season but he's not hot as a passer either.   Neither one gets me jazzed unless Cam somehow regains whatever he lost post 2nd shoulder surgery. 

 

As for Fitzpatrick, if you want intangibles, that's the guy, the players love him.  He's fun and clutch.  He's also a wild ride.  Downs with the ups. Main reason why i am not a Darnold guy is the price but the 2nd reason is you get even lower lows than you would with Fitzpatrick as for turnovers but without the upside of moving the ball down the field -- unless Darnold regains his USC form where you'd have the same lows but you'd get highs more similar to Fitzpatrick with more upside.   

 

If I am picking anyone cheap, my fav would be Mariota.   Fitzpatrick next favorite.  I don't love either.  But those would be my two favorite roll of the dice QBs. 

 

 

 

I think one thing with Mariota is that, if he becomes a FA, he'll probably have multiple teams interested and he's probably more likely to go to a situation where he'll potentially be "the guy" going forward. Not necessarily something where he's handed the starting job (he's not good enough for that) but where he'll easily be in contention to be the QB of the future. IMO any FA we bring in will be a stopgap and he might not dig that.

 

Unless Ron and Co. actually believe Mariota can be the guy and can convince him they're looking at him that way.

 

As far as Lance I agree that teams might fall victim to the scarcity principle in sales and overdraft him based on his potential when compared to guys like Jackson and Watson (though IMO Watson is a FAR better passer than Jackson is).

 

I do like Lance as a prospect but I'm wary of trading up for him because he's coming from a small school, has such limited film, and is likely very raw. I'd be 100% fine with him at 19 but giving up a haul to move up for him makes me feel ehhhh.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

7 minutes ago, drowland said:

 

You had 4 QBs in the top 10 just a few years ago in 2018.  The key might be Denver to have 4 in this top 10.  Elway passed on Josh Allen in 2018.  Would he pass on Lance?  I know Elway turned things over to a GM but I'd think he'll still be heavily involved with finding the QB. 

 

Yep. As it stands now:

1. Jax

2. Jets

4. Falcons

6. Eagles

7. Lions

8. Panthers

9. Broncos

12. 49ers

15. Patriots

19. WFT

20. Bears

 

Nobody would be surprised if any of those teams drafted a QB in April. The wildcard becomes if Watson is traded or not, and what the Jets decide to do with Darnold. And then to a lesser extent, the Falcons with Matt Ryan and drafting a future QB to sit behind him and the Eagles with Jalen Hurts.

 

As things stand today, I would say:

1. Jaguars - 100% QB

2. Jets - 80%

3. Dolphins - 0%

4. Falcons - 50%

6. Eagles - 25%

8. Panthers - 90%

9. Broncos - 50%

12. 49ers - 25%

15. Patriots - 75%

 

If I had to make some predictions, I'd say:

1. Jaguars - Lawrence

2. Jets - Wilson

3. Dolphins - Chase

4. Panthers - Fields

5. Bengals - Sewell

6. Eagles - Smith

7. Lions - Waddle or Parsons

8. Falcons - Farley or Paye or trade down again

-----

So here's where I think it gets interesting Re: Lance. Do you try and trade up with Atlanta and give them more future draft assets? Does Denver go Lance or do they decide to load up on 2022 assets and or draft a CB? If they draft a CB, then does Lance go to the 49ers at #12? Or does SF go elsewhere? Maybe Slater if Trent WIlliams leaves in FA? Then if you're Washington you just gotta get up to #13 or #14 to get ahead of the Patriots. BUT, what if the Patriots end up liking Mac Jones more than Lance? You can see that there are certainly multiple scenarios in which Lance could fall to a range where we don't have to give up any major draft capital, or possibly slides all the way to #19 if someone like Jones goes ahead of him.

 

Anyway, long rant over, just interesting to think through the scenarios.

[mistertim]

35 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

I kind of agree with what was posted above. Cam has not been the same player since being injured. Watch this video of Heineke in the Panthers game. The guy gives you everything Cam does right now. And for far less money. Heineke can play. Look at the number of dropped balls in this video. The passes were perfect. Almost all of them. the problem with Heineke is he is going to get hurt. He just is. 

 

 

I agree about this in some ways, but I'd add that Heinicke as a runner is a very different beast than Cam, mostly due to size. Cam is a red zone threat and can punch the ball in on short yardage. No way would Heinick be doing that stuff. He's most of an outside scrambling kind of guy. And I also agree that he's likely to get hurt at some point. He has an injury history and his small size + being a scrambler causes concern. 

[heyholetsgogrant]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Hear me out. I think I could come around on Cam Newton, because of who he is, and because of who he succeeded with. If Rivera brings him on for a 1-2 year cheap-ish deal to run this offense, I would have to trust his judgment. If I were any other QB needy team I would be weary, but if it's Ron, who knows him best, that brings him in I have to trust that.

 

I think I have gotten to the point where my "wish list" is as follows ...

 

Sign Cam Newton to an incentive-laden 1-2 year deal ala Heinecke. Maybe 2 years and up to $16m in total value if he starts a certain % of games or something.

 

Find a rookie to try and groom. If that's Jamie Newman in Round 3 or 4, fine. But my preference would be Trey Lance. If he gets within striking distance, move up and get him.

 

A QB room of Newton, Heinecke, Lance would be stellar. Newton and Heinecke battle it out for starting role. If one of them falters at any point, you turn to the guy behind him, and at no point are you really in a position to have to turn to Lance in 2021, which is ideal for his development. Lance is also very much in the mold of Cam, so it would be good for him to sit behind him and learn for a year or two. Jamie Newman would also fit that mold as well ... raw, athletic, running ability, etc. So IMO both of those guys would benefit from being our QB3 in 2021.

 

So sign Cam to a 1-2 year incentive laden deal.

Target Lance (Trade up) or Newman (mid rounds) in the draft to be your QB3.

 

Use the rest of free agency and the draft to build the weapons on offense and add a LB.

 

Looks like more draft noise, there was some noise with Mac Jones yesterday.  Petty much every top QB this draft has had a an article written they aee the great qb ever coming out of college.

Edited February 24, 2021 by heyholetsgogrant

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1. Jacksonville - Trevor Lawrence, QB Clemson

2. NY Jets- Zach Wilson, QB BYU

3. Miami- Jamar Chase, WR LSU

*Trade* Atlanta sends 1.4 to Carolina for #8, 2nd and 2022 1st

4. Carolina - Justin Fields, QB Ohio State

5. Cincinnati - Penei Sewell, OT Oregon

6. Philadelphia - Devonta Smith, WR Alabama

7. Detroit - Jaylen Waddle, WR Alabama

*Trade* Washington sends 19, 74 and 2022 1st to Atlanta for #8

8. Washington - Trey Lance, QB NDSU

9. Denver - Caleb Farley, CB Virginia Tech

10. Dallas - Patrick Surtain II, CB Alabama

11. NY Giants - Kyle Pitts, TE Florida

12. San Francisco - Rashawn Slater, OT Northwestern

13. LA Chargers - Alijah Vera Tucker, G USC

14. Minnesota - Christian Darrisaw, OT Virginia Tech

15. New England - Micah Parsons, LB Penn State

16. Arizona - Gregory Rousseau, Edge Miami

17. Raiders - Kwity Paye, DE Michigan

18. Miami - Jalen Mayfield, OT Michigan

19. Atlanta - Mac Jones, QB Alabama

 

Atlanta gets their QB, albeit at 19 (and maybe not planned at time of trade). They add 2 1st round picks in 2022, a 2 and 3 in 2022.

 

WFT gets their QB in Lance and parts with a 19, a 3rd and a 2022 1st.

Edited February 24, 2021 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Chris 44]

9 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I agree about this in some ways, but I'd add that Heinicke as a runner is a very different beast than Cam, mostly due to size. Cam is a red zone threat and can punch the ball in on short yardage. No way would Heinick be doing that stuff. He's most of an outside scrambling kind of guy. And I also agree that he's likely to get hurt at some point. He has an injury history and his small size + being a scrambler causes concern. 

I think even though Heinicke is a different type of runner than Cam (short yardage, punch the ball in from the 2) he has that mind set where he will try to do those things which I feel will, like you said, get him hurt. Watching Heinicke throw he puts the ball in catchable locations which leads to YAC, something no one else on the team currently does with any consistency. I really want to take the chance with him but the only thing that gives me pause, like everyone else, is his durability. Not sure he can be coached to "not take the big hit" I don't think its in his nature to back down.

[Skinsinparadise]

25 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I think one thing with Mariota is that, if he becomes a FA, he'll probably have multiple teams interested and he's probably more likely to go to a situation where he'll potentially be "the guy" going forward. Not necessarily something where he's handed the starting job (he's not good enough for that) but where he'll easily be in contention to be the QB of the future. IMO any FA we bring in will be a stopgap and he might not dig that.

 

 

Could be.  I keep reading that NE is hot on him.  I am not dying for any of these projects or FA types. Some I like more than others but I am not sweating it.  The only thing I sweat is giving a big haul for Darnold -- i am not a fan of his, I could be wrong on him but to me the main issue is the risk because you likely have to give up too much to get him.  A 2nd round pick in this draft could be a receiver like Elijan Moore or a TE like Brevin Jordan.  Then you got Darnold's contract looming too.  I feel about him similar to the PFF guy below.

 

 

 

 

25 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

As far as Lance I agree that teams might fall victim to the scarcity principle in sales and overdraft him based on his potential when compared to guys like Jackson and Watson (though IMO Watson is a FAR better passer than Jackson is).

 

I do like Lance as a prospect but I'm wary of trading up for him because he's coming from a small school, has such limited film, and is likely very raw. I'd be 100% fine with him at 19 but giving up a haul to move up for him makes me feel ehhhh.

 

I wouldn't give up a lot to get him.  He's raw but I think you can do something with him because of the combination of intangibles and mobility.  But i am not 100% sold on him. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

24 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

I think even though Heinicke is a different type of runner than Cam (short yardage, punch the ball in from the 2) he has that mind set where he will try to do those things which I feel will, like you said, get him hurt. Watching Heinicke throw he puts the ball in catchable locations which leads to YAC, something no one else on the team currently does with any consistency. I really want to take the chance with him but the only thing that gives me pause, like everyone else, is his durability. Not sure he can be coached to "not take the big hit" I don't think its in his nature to back down.

 

I think some of this also related to what RR noted when asked about Heinicke and he mentioned that playing with absolutely nothing to lose as a guy coming in off the street is a different thing than being a consistently good QB. They obviously think he's worth something, since they gave him a deal, but I also think it's obvious that they're not putting their eggs in that basket or they wouldn't be pretty openly shopping for a new QB and talking about needing an upgrade at the position.

[CommDownMan]

2 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Cam requires the individual to think outside of the box on how he can help win games. I’m not saying this “box” is right or wrong, but he obviously isn’t going to provide value in similar ways than some of the other average to above QBs (the hope would be he’d be average to above). You instantly become a top 10 rushing offense. dynamic in the red zone and on 1st and 2nd down. The other side of it is you will struggle with consistency in the pass game/lack of rhythm and 3rd and longs will most likely will be bottom 3rd in the league. 
 

Have you ever been a fan of Newton?

 

I lived in NC when Carolina was good, so I was a fan then.  He also looked better.

 

I saw a comment somewhere about Cam in a Taysom Hill type role.  Above it was mentioned he was humbled as well. 

 

Heinicke is exciting, but no guarantee.  Make Cam a QB/RB role and give a 60 (Heinicke)/40 (Cam) split.  Draft Najee Harris and be a consistent running threat.  I don't know how it looks over a full season, but it could be an interesting offense.  If we strike out in WR FA and bring in an unknown draft pick it would at least tip time of possession, giving our D more rest and making things interesting.  Not saying it's my favorite idea, but I'd rather that then a bunch of others trade thoughts that have been listed in this mega thread.  Hedges the bet on Heinicke injury or regression as well and requires a bit less physical toll on a player that has had trouble going a full game.  

[Number 44]

47 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

1. Jacksonville - Trevor Lawrence, QB Clemson

2. NY Jets- Zach Wilson, QB BYU

3. Miami- Jamar Chase, WR LSU

*Trade* Atlanta sends 1.4 to Carolina for #8, 2nd and 2022 1st

4. Carolina - Justin Fields, QB Ohio State

5. Cincinnati - Penei Sewell, OT Oregon

6. Philadelphia - Devonta Smith, WR Alabama

7. Detroit - Jaylen Waddle, WR Alabama

*Trade* Washington sends 19, 74 and 2022 1st to Atlanta for #8

8. Washington - Trey Lance, QB NDSU

9. Denver - Caleb Farley, CB Virginia Tech

10. Dallas - Patrick Surtain II, CB Alabama

11. NY Giants - Kyle Pitts, TE Florida

12. San Francisco - Rashawn Slater, OT Northwestern

13. LA Chargers - Alijah Vera Tucker, G USC

14. Minnesota - Christian Darrisaw, OT Virginia Tech

15. New England - Micah Parsons, LB Penn State

16. Arizona - Gregory Rousseau, Edge Miami

17. Raiders - Kwity Paye, DE Michigan

18. Miami - Jalen Mayfield, OT Michigan

19. Atlanta - Mac Jones, QB Alabama

 

Atlanta gets their QB, albeit at 19 (and maybe not planned at time of trade). They add 2 1st round picks in 2022, a 2 and 3 in 2022.

 

WFT gets their QB in Lance and parts with a 19, a 3rd and a 2022 1st.

RR would never do this, IMO.  He wants to win now, while the window is still open on our defense.  Trading away such strong draft assets for a project that is at least a year away, and probably 2 years, if he pans out at all, would be counterproductive to that goal.  If Lance fell to 19, I could see possibly taking him, especially if someone like Fitzpatrick is signed on a short term contract.  But spending so much to trade up for a guy that won't help in 2021?  I don't think so.  I'm not sure that WFT is even interested in Lance.  These trades would get the Exec of the Year award for the Atlanta GM, though.

[mistertim]

10 minutes ago, jsharrin55 said:

 

I lived in NC when Carolina was good, so I was a fan then.  He also looked better.

 

I saw a comment somewhere about Cam in a Taysom Hill type role.  Above it was mentioned he was humbled as well. 

 

Heinicke is exciting, but no guarantee.  Make Cam a QB/RB role and give a 60 (Heinicke)/40 (Cam) split.  Draft Najee Harris and be a consistent running threat.  I don't know how it looks over a full season, but it could be an interesting offense.  If we strike out in WR FA and bring in an unknown draft pick it would at least tip time of possession, giving our D more rest and making things interesting.  Not saying it's my favorite idea, but I'd rather that then a bunch of others trade thoughts that have been listed in this mega thread.  Hedges the bet on Heinicke injury or regression as well and requires a bit less physical toll on a player that has had trouble going a full game.  

 

I think teams have tried this "QB by committee" approach a couple of times in the past and it failed miserably. On paper it might look ok, but in reality your receivers, OL...everyone...needs to have some level of chemistry with the QB. If you're shuffling QBs in and out depending on down and situation, it's going throw things into turmoil IMO. 

 

Plus, I'd give it about 3 weeks into the season before Cam starts ****ing publicly about being used as a gadget player. Not worth the headache.

[CommDownMan]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I think teams have tried this "QB by committee" approach a couple of times in the past and it failed miserably. On paper it might look ok, but in reality your receivers, OL...everyone...needs to have some level of chemistry with the QB. If you're shuffling QBs in and out depending on down and situation, it's going throw things into turmoil IMO. 

 

Plus, I'd give it about 3 weeks into the season before Cam starts ****ing publicly about being used as a gadget player. Not worth the headache.

 

Certainly won't argue the ****ing part.  He'd have to know it was his purpose and agree to it.

 

It could also fail, it may not be a good idea.  I just think we also are limited on great ideas.  I see some room here for upside.

[ODU AGGIE]

1 hour ago, Chris 44 said:

I think even though Heinicke is a different type of runner than Cam (short yardage, punch the ball in from the 2) he has that mind set where he will try to do those things which I feel will, like you said, get him hurt. Watching Heinicke throw he puts the ball in catchable locations which leads to YAC, something no one else on the team currently does with any consistency. I really want to take the chance with him but the only thing that gives me pause, like everyone else, is his durability. Not sure he can be coached to "not take the big hit" I don't think its in his nature to back down.

I have probably watched more film on TH than anybody else on here, from high school at Collins Hill, to ODU, to the NFL. In high school, he did take on the tacklers when he ran, but at ODU he was coached to avoid the contact by sliding. If you watch him slide, you can tell he played baseball and knows what he is doing. The only times he did not slide at ODU were when he anticipated and made a move to avoid the hit (not all that often) or he was diving for the pylon. He has brought that mindset to the NFL. It absolutely is in his nature to "back down" and avoid the hit at this time in his football career, as is demonstrated in this highlight video of his playing time at Carolina. (click on "watch on you tube.)

 

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by ODU AGGIE

[mistertim]

12 minutes ago, jsharrin55 said:

 

Certainly won't argue the ****ing part.  He'd have to know it was his purpose and agree to it.

 

It could also fail, it may not be a good idea.  I just think we also are limited on great ideas.  I see some room here for upside.

 

Yeah, I just have a hard time seeing Cam agree to it, I suppose. Though he might not have many options. But even if he does agree to it...agreeing to it in theory and then doing it in practice may end up being two totally different things and he'd end up ****ing anyway.

 

As far as QB by committee, it could work I suppose. But personally I'd prefer it if they simply pick a QB and go with him. If that's a guy we bring in like Mariota or Fitz, fine. If that ends up being Heinicke or Allen, fine.

 

Outside of Heinicke actually proving to be a hidden gem, none of those guys are probably long term answers, so which one it is doesn't really matter a ton to me, to be honest.

Edited February 24, 2021 by mistertim

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

I am getting the vibe that we shouldn't be shocked to see Trey Lance in Philly.