Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Skinsinparadise]

Matt Bowen, ex-safety for the Gregg Williams' defenses here among other things does good film review IMO.

 

He was on Sheehan's show because he's apparently deep dived into QB options this off season.  Some of his takes:

 

A. Likes Trevor Lawrence but seems to think he's somewhat overhyped, doesn't see that much of a difference between him and Burrow as to quality play even though they have different traits-style.  He does like Lawrence but sounds like he doesn't think he's the be all and all prospect of all time.

 

B.  Fields and Zack Wilson are close to each other as QB 2.  He's high on both for different reasons

 

C.  He's a big traits guy as for QBs.  Saying Herbert had the traits in college.  Ditto Josh Allen.  He touted Fields as a big time trait guy -- Fields trait wise he thinks matches Lawrence.

 

D.  He seems to like but not love Mac Jones but doesn't like that he doesn't make plays off script. He came off somewhat unsure about him. 

 

E.  He sees Kyle Allen and Heinicke as high end backups, he seemed higher on Heinicke but has doubts that he has the frame to withstand NFL level punishment

 

F.  Of the FA options for this team, he seems to like Fitzpatrick (touted his style of play), Dalton (thinks he's suited for this offense), Winston (thinks his mistakes can be coached out of him)

 

G.  He's a you need a QB to win in this league kind of guy.  He loves Chase Young but would have taken Herbert over him with hindsight and would trade him for D. Watson if that's what it took.

 

H.  Didn't talk much aboiut what he thought the teams needs were but stressed FS and WR.    I've heard him say before about this offense that you can clamp down with the right defense and stop their horizontal passing game and it desperately needs a WR who threatens defenses vertically because that would open the field for everyone.  He doubled down on that point again today.  Thinks WR is a code red spot.  He likes Terry but feels they need another especially one who can go deep. 

 

On another note, if they trade for Darnold and he busts boy will Sheehan have egg on his face and conversely if he's right he could take one heck of a victory lap.  He's really sticking out his neck hard.   Now comparing him to Stafford on some level, and touting his leadership.  He goes Darnold deserves to be traded for at a minimum a 2nd and a third rounder but he wouldn't be surprised if he goes for first.  He should add in violins to his next rap about Darnold.  . I do agree with Sheehan though about Fitzpatrick, he likes him as a FA option. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[mhd24]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

On another note, if they trade for Darnold and he busts boy will Sheehan have egg on his face and conversely if he's right he could take one heck of a victory lap.  He's really sticking out his neck hard.   Now comparing him to Stafford on some level, and touting his leadership.  He goes Darnold deserves to be traded for at a minimum a 2nd and a third rounder but he wouldn't be surprised if he goes for first.  He should add in violins to his next rap about Darnold.  . I do agree with Sheehan though about Fitzpatrick, he likes him as a FA option. 

 

 

Did he get Bowen to talk about his man crush of Darnold?  Seriously, does he even address the fact that Darnold would cost 20 million and we'd have to either extend him (given his proposed offer, it would be mandatory)?

 

Does he address the vast amount of fumbles?  The picks?  The fact that Flacco outplayed him this year with the same sorry cast (Oh, and Flacco was in a new offense too).  

 

The Jets are going to have to cut Darnold when they take Zach Wilson.  Who is trading for 20 million in this distressed cap environment?  

[tmandoug1]

9 hours ago, TheShredder said:

I'm not sure that's the vibe, rather it's a clear matter of them bringing in competition.  So basically breaking down every QB that could possible be in play until they make a move.  Just something to do! 

I agree, but sometimes it seems like we start to get desperate and reach for guys that really can't help us. No offense but I would have rather had Wentz than Cam.

[Skinsinparadise]

20 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

Did he get Bowen to talk about his man crush of Darnold?  Seriously, does he even address the fact that Darnold would cost 20 million and we'd have to either extend him (given his proposed offer, it would be mandatory)?

 

Does he address the vast amount of fumbles?  The picks?  The fact that Flacco outplayed him this year with the same sorry cast (Oh, and Flacco was in a new offense too).  

 

The Jets are going to have to cut Darnold when they take Zach Wilson.  Who is trading for 20 million in this distressed cap environment?  

 

thanks for the reminder about Darnold, not much on him, Bowen said he liked some of Darnold's traits but he didn't go to town on a strong opinion on him whether he'd be an answer.   No Mariota talk at all.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[TradeTheBeal!]

Sam Darnold’s arm has the raw power of a tornado and the feathery precision of a hummingbird.

[HigSkin]

I've been sitting here watching Mel Kiper on Get Up spew praise towards Darnold and the thoughts from the panel are that Jets keep him albeit Chris Canty said he needs out of NY.  Then of course Dan O. puts his film up of all the good throws Darnold can make.  Most of them view him as a Wentz situation, wrecked mentally and can he be THE guy like he was in 2018?

 

As a side note, Kiper has the "5" top QB's in the draft going in the first 9 picks with 3 trades.  Atlanta to #2 for Zach Wilson, 49er's to #7 for Justin Fields, Pats to #9 for Trey Lance.  He has Mac Jones to Carolina at #8.

 

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by HigSkin

[Skinsinparadise]

Jeremy Fowler from ESPN on Sheehan's show just now. 

He was the same one who said first that they are in on Stafford.

 

He think they are aggressively into upgrading at QB.  Thinks they'd shoot for D. Watson if he hits the market but their focus is on the mid tier types.  He believes they are in on Mariota.  He does think Mariota is the next shoe to drop.  The issue is the contract so that is the sticking point and could lead to his release.  Said several teams are in on him.   Thinks he goes for a 4th-5th because of the contract.

Sheehan hit him with his latest refrain to back his liking of Darnold by saying people thought he was wrong about Stafford too and look at the hot market that existed for him? For me, lol, I was all in to Stafford too but having some naysayers on Stafford doesn't automatically by default back his instinct on Darnold.  The dude has a right to his opinion and I like his show but man he's a bit out of control IMO on Darnold. 

 

So I found Fowler's response amusing.  He goes to Sheehan the market for Darnold won't be the same as for Stafford.  He said talking about Darnold to coaches and personnel guys around the league, he's somewhat a polarizing player.  Some think he can be rehabbed.  Some don't.  some coaches he talked to just think he was bad and it had nothing to do with the Jets, worried about his accuracy.  Fowler does think we'd be interested in Darnold because he thinks we are intrigued with mid tier options like him.

 

He thinks Alex is likely gone.    My biggest takeaway is he seems to be at odds with Rappoport on Mariota.  He thinks there is a chance Mariota gets traded still.  And it sounds like he thinks it could go down sooner than later albeit he's not ruling out a release.  And yes he thinks the WFT are in.

 

As I am typing this, Travis Thomas from 980 (don't know if he's plugged in) is talking about Mariota as an option.  And he said he asked people he knows with the team about Darnold, and he doesn't get the impression they are interested.

 

Who knows.  Granted I am biased at this point and prefer to hear pro Mariota stuff. I'd say though I've heard enough to believe that its possible they chase Darnold.  Smoke though feels thicker right now as to Mariota.  My pause about Mariota is really thick smoke about him and NE, too. 

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[HigSkin]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

43 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

I've been sitting here watching Mel Kiper on Get Up spew praise towards Darnold and the thoughts from the panel are that Jets keep him albeit Chris Canty said he needs out of NY.  Then of course Dan O. puts his film up of all the good throws Darnold can make.  Most of them view him as a Wentz situation, wrecked mentally and can he be THE guy like he was in 2018?

 

As a side note, Kiper has the "5" top QB's in the draft going in the first 9 picks with 3 trades.  Atlanta to #2 for Zach Wilson, 49er's to #7 for Justin Fields, Pats to #9 for Trey Lance.  He has Mac Jones to Carolina at #8.

 

Darnold is the poster child QB for Kiper, McShay, DJ, etc. Big name.  Big school.  They tend to like those QBs.  Brady Quinn types.   And the most important thing for these guys especially during draft season is to look right.  So since they touted Darnold before the draft they look much better if they put all of his struggles on the Jets.   Orlovsky same dude screaming that Haskins is a star before that draft and ripped Rivera for benching him.    McShay same dude who sold Bortles.  Kiper same dude that said he was so sure that Jimmy Clausen would be a good NFL QB that he'd quit his job if he ended up wrong.

 

Most of these same guys sold Josh Rosen the same way 2 years ago.  Any team would be brilliant to take Rosen in a trade, etc.  I am not saying they are wrong this time.  will see.  But they've been wrong plenty.  And in their defense, they are like this with just about any player they touted before the draft -- their leanings are just about always their original instincts were right about said player so wait until the right coach gets a hold of so and so. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[kingdaddy]

13 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

IMO one problem is that Cam is now a superstar personality without the superstar play. So you might end up getting the bad part of a superstar personality without the good play to balance it out. Not sure it's worth it to be honest.

This point is where we have to trust RR...remember, he let Trent go because he didn't like the vibe. I trust RR will know what he's getting in Cam if he goes that route.

[Skinsinparadise]

36 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

 

That's just a repeat of the Rappoport segment posted here yesterday.  Rappoport thinks the contract is turning off trade suitors and could lead to his release.   Fowler seems mixed on this, he thinks it could lead to his release too but does think it could still be for a pick and it could happen sooner than later. 

[kingdaddy]

12 hours ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

Did you watch Cam play last year?  He is more done than Alex. Way more done.  If we are going after has beens as a bridge for a year, get Fitzmagic.  At least he gives you a sluggers chance to win while building the rest of the team.  The last few years have sucked just about every drop of care out of me. But every time I get the 45 year itch come back a little we do something like sign Cam Newton. So I'm sure we will. 

Yeah, I saw Cam play, and let me be clear, I am not advocating signing Cam but I am totally OK with it if we do. Cam had to learn a new system and also dealt with COVID. He had no WR's of note or a TE. New England signed him fairly late and hoped he'd carry them. To say Cam is way more done then Alex I would seriously disagree. In the NFC East Cam would be fine, if he won the job. That's just it, I think the coaches like Heiny and Allen and want to see what they can do. Cam would be insurance, not a bridge. I also think he could help out in short yardage which he specializes in. 

As for Fitzmagic, I think by bringing him in he'd be a real threat to win the job. I'm not opposed to him either, I love Fitzmagic and would love to see him with our defense. I'd take Fitz over Cam but would trust RR with either decision. I just see Cam as a very cheap, legit insurance option for this team....IF his attitude is good. What's more, if he comes in and doesn't win the job who's to say we don't release him at final cuts? 

1 hour ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Sam Darnold’s arm has the raw power of a tornado and the feathery precision of a hummingbird.

I knew tornado's were powerful, didn't know hummingbirds were precise...interesting. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Woof on this article about Wilson. For those who don't subscribe to The Athletic ... basically the article covers many different angles of the saga. The Seahawks scouted and were enamored with Mahomes. Were planning to draft him in Round 1 in 2017 if he fell. They also scouted and loved Josh Allen in 2018. And Wilson's camp caught wind that the Seahawks had had discussions with the Browns to trade him for #1 pick in 2018. And then this year basically Wilson butted heads on play-calling with Carroll and didn't appreciate his dismissiveness and criticisms of Wilson's play.

 

Sounds like WIlson wants to be the guy, and wants to be considered one of the greats, and wants to be treated as such and doesn't feel he's getting that in Seattle.

 

It really reads like a divorce is pretty likely. Sounds like Wilson might want to be in NY. I wonder if the Jets entertain sending the #2 pick to the Seahawks for him, and the Seahawks hit reset with Zach Wilson or Justin Fields. Considering the Seahawks apparently entertained a trade with the Browns for #1 means they may have considered replacing Wilson with Mayfield, so it would make sense for them to consider replacing a now 3-year older Wilson with the QB2 in this draft. Not sure it would take multiple 1's if they can get the #2 piclk.

 

https://theathletic.com/2409212/2021/02/25/russell-wilson-trade-seahawks/

Edited February 25, 2021 by JamesMadisonSkins

[LightningBuggs]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

 

 

If Mariota is released, by all means the WFT should take a flyer on him.  I'm not a huge fan of the guy, but I'd take him in a heartbeat over Cam at the cost of no compensation to the Raiders.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[mistertim]

11 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I wish we got to see more of Kyle Allen, just to get a better idea of what we have in him. He was more elusive than I thought he was, and was pretty accurate. I honestly can't sit here and say I'm not sold on him after how he played, he was solid, looked like he belonged. 

 

He was never able to get into a rhythm his first game because Aaron Donald was absolutely dominating Wes Martin and got 4 sacks on us. Hopefully he never sees the field again. 

 

But after that he looked good against the Giants and Cowboys, then he got injured the next game against the Giants. He only attempted 87 passes on the season. It just wasn't enough of a sample size. 

 

Yeah this is something to think about as well. I don't think he's an amazing QB or anything, but Allen was playing pretty well last season before he got hurt. If he's fully recovered he might be able to jump back into winning the starting job. There's a ton of focus on Heinicke right now but I wouldn't sleep on the possibility that Allen comes back and ends up being our guy this season.

 

That being said, just like with Heinicke, the fact that the FO is actively looking for an upgrade means they're probably not sold on Allen either. That or they like him but they don't know what his status will be as far as rehabbing from his injury. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Saints?  what do they have to offer?

 

 

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Dolphins, Jets, Saints, Raiders.

 

Saints - They're in cap purgatory and don't have any premier draft picks. Unless the teams agree to some sort of weird salary cap creativity, I don't buy it. Not like Seattle has the room to absord big contracts anyway.

 

Dolphins - South Beach. Multiple high picks. Cap Space. It makes sense. Could the Hawks accept #3 and Tua for Wilson?

 

Jets - Probably the most logical. If Seattle considered trading Wilson for #1 and the opportunity to get Mayfield in 2018, I would think they'd consider #2 to get his replacement, and maybe another 1st from the Jets this or next year?

 

Raiders - Not sure this makes a ton of sense unless the Raiders send back Derek Carr, 1st, 2nd, next year's 1st and 2nd ... and even then I'm not sure the Hawks do it since it doesnt give them access to their replacement QB.

Also ... Not sure Wilson garners 3 1st round picks. Remember, he's 32. He came out pretty late (25?) due to his baseball career. So this isn't someone like Watson coming off his rookie deal at 25. So I wonder if a Top 3 pick + another pick/player does it. My guess would be #3 and #38 and Tua from Miami. Or #2 and #23 from the Jets get it done.

 

If Seattle likes Tua, that might be the most sensible move. Use #3 to trade down or, ironically, draft Sewell (don't need a WR with DK and Lockett). Or use #3 to trade down for additional trade capital.

 

If I am Russ, I think I prefer to go to Miami. I know there's some sense he could want to be in NY ... but the Jets don't have a lot of options around him. I guess they could build up the OL a bit more and sign a WR in FA, but not like the Jets are a stacked team that's a QB away from competing.

If Seattle likes Wilson/Fields, take the #2 pick to draft them and use the other 1st on an OL-men.

Edited February 25, 2021 by JamesMadisonSkins

[mistertim]

I'm wondering if we'd pursue Wilson. If the rumors are true that Wilson's issue is he basically wants a major say in the offense, personnel, etc...then I could potentially see RR and Co. passing. Wilson is a great QB but if he's going to try and go to a new team and tell them he gets to say what's what it might not go over very well. Depends on the coaching staff though. Some might say "sure, we'll do whatever you want" but I don't see that being RR.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Burgundy Yoda]

Damn Russ, no love for us? 

[RWJ]

This is getting ridiculous.  With the way Wilson and Watson and possibly other QBs are acting about wanting to be OC and QB why do teams need offensive coaches.  No, I disagree.  QBs listen to their coaches and do as they are told.  This may become a big issue in time.   Guess I am old school.  Let the coaches coach and the players be coached and play the game.

[HigSkin]

8 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Damn Russ, no love for us? 

 

I figure Seahawks brass would be looking at a high draft pick to replace him and #19 isn't it unfortunately.  I just wonder why Carolina isn't on that list and Saints/Raiders are?

Edited February 25, 2021 by HigSkin

[skinny21]

Cam isn’t someone I advocated for, but as I’ve said previously, he does check a lot of boxes.  Other posters reactions - I didn’t see Cam play last year - has mostly dissuaded me.  However...

 

To me, Cam wouldn’t be the bridge type qb we’re looking for (though it’s possible) and almost certainly not the franchise qb we’re looking for (maybe a sliver of possibility here), he’s insurance for Allen and Heinicke that costs very little cap and zero picks.  

 

Adding him doesn’t change our qb search a whit, IMO - we can still try to draft one, can still try to trade for one; Cam can be cut, or one of the other two can be if it came to that.  Added interesting factor, he’s a name (as opposed to Allen/Heinicke) that can give a sense of hope to the team and FA receivers, and can make us look a bit less desperate for a qb, potentially changing slightly the nature of negotiations with another team.

 

Also interesting, signing Cam over Fitzpatrick (not saying this is my preference) actually means we have more FA resources to in turn help our qbs. If Cam, Heinicke and Allen all pretty much suck, this isn’t going to help us much.  If one of them emerges though, the maybe the extra cap spent on additional players, or a higher tier player(s) makes a difference.

 

Part of me would rather roll with Montez or some other youngster (I generally prefer potential/youth to experienced ‘blah’ play), but I can understand a hesitancy to do that by the FO if you guess Allen/Heinicke quite possibly don’t make it through 1/2 the season.