Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[FootballZombie]

17 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don’t get the obvious lack of belief in Heinicke myself

 

 

Not so much a lack in belief as it is not falling in love with a microscopic sample size on a player who was not even in the NFL for a while.

Not saying he shouldn't be allowed to compete for the job, but an Allen/Taylor/X competition next year should be like option G. 

 

Matt Flynn's happen, and falling in love with them is a cardinal NFL sin

[KDawg]

Just now, FootballZombie said:

 

 

Not so much a lack in belief as it is not falling in love with a microscopic sample size on a player who was not even in the NFL for a while.

Not saying he shouldn't be allowed to compete for the job, but an Allen/Taylor/X competition next year should be like option G. 

 

Matt Flynn's happen, and falling in love with them is a cardinal NFL sin

Matt Flynn does happen. Which is why suggesting he doesn’t compete for the job insanity. 
 

And if an option that is great is available to us without us being stupid about it, sure, go for the sure thing. The chances of that are low, though. So short of that happening we’d be signing some old vet to maybe be the QB.

 

Heinicke or even Allen excite me more than seeing Rivers back there. 
 

If I had to pick and old dude it would be Brees but he’s not a FA and he’s likely to retire and, quite frankly, I don’t want him either.

 

Heinicke came huge in a playoff game against a top D. It wasn’t some stat padding performance or game. It was a gritty game... 

 

It would be very Washington for us to pass on him, trade a ton of assets and cap space for a big name, watch the big name go down in flames and Heinicke go somewhere else and play relatively well, though. So...

[Jericho]

29 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

But otherwise I don’t understand why Allen and Heinicke can’t compete for the job.

 

There's a pretty good chance neither Allen or Heinicke are viable NFL starters. Not zero percent, but it's a pretty low percentage play. If that's Plan A and there's no one else on the roster, there's a very good chance Washington has the worst QB room in the NFL. And I think anyone would view that as a failure of an offseason no matter what else the team does. If you mess up QB, everything else means a lot less.

 

As an side to the above and directed at the Tyrod Taylor talk, I have no idea the allure of such a signing. He's proven to be what he is. Which is not an NFL starter. At least guys like Allen or Heinicke have potential upside. Taylor's upside is a guy you don't want as your starter. if you sign a guy like that, you want to sign him as a back-up. But in Washington, he's just clogging a roster spot for a potential actual starter. Signing three back-up level guys doesn't equal one starter. I'd hope the plan is better than that.

[JoggingGod]

17 minutes ago, Jericho said:

There's a pretty good chance neither Allen or Heinicke are viable NFL starters. Not zero percent

Actually yes, it is zero percent.

[wit33]

10 hours ago, KDawg said:

Matt Flynn does happen. Which is why suggesting he doesn’t compete for the job insanity. 
 

And if an option that is great is available to us without us being stupid about it, sure, go for the sure thing. The chances of that are low, though. So short of that happening we’d be signing some old vet to maybe be the QB.

 

Heinicke or even Allen excite me more than seeing Rivers back there. 
 

If I had to pick and old dude it would be Brees but he’s not a FA and he’s likely to retire and, quite frankly, I don’t want him either.

 

Heinicke came huge in a playoff game against a top D. It wasn’t some stat padding performance or game. It was a gritty game... 

 

It would be very Washington for us to pass on him, trade a ton of assets and cap space for a big name, watch the big name go down in flames and Heinicke go somewhere else and play relatively well, though. So...

Sometimes guys flash because of the talent around them and/or the coaches putting together consecutive advantageous game plans for guys. The big factor for Taylor H was him making throws down the field, creating extra time in and out of the pocket, using legs to run... big time skills. I’m not all in like some, but fall where most do in that I hope he’s given a legit shot to compete next season. 
 

One concern, and this is me totally leaning on Cooleys film breakdown in regards to them running the same concept for a large part of the game. The way he made it sound it wasn’t as if they were at all deep into the playbook. Makes you wonder if the Bucs were just caught off guard a bit and it’s pretty clear there wasn’t much for them to game plan for as far as strengths, weaknesses, and tendencies etc.. This is one factor fans often ignore, being able to manage a game consistently when “the book” is out on you. For example, some choose to bash a Tyrod Taylor or Cam Newton, but those are guys who’ve proven they can manage games and win.
 

That’s a huge step, being average in the NFL at the QB spot. 

Edited January 19, 2021 by wit33

[Wildbunny]

6 hours ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

What evidence do you have that Kyle Allen or Tyrod Taylor are better than Heinecke?  Pedigree means zero to me.  Heinecke is better than both of them and he is my choice for starter next year.

 

I'm just posting stuff that is more relevant here than in BHRBN IMHO.

So please, don't take it as if that's my personnal opinion. 

 

If I was just posting stuff I agree with, there would be a lot less articles in BHRBN or here. Which isn't the goal. Goal is to keep you updated, entertained and have sane discussions on the forum.

[KDawg]

6 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

There's a pretty good chance neither Allen or Heinicke are viable NFL starters. Not zero percent, but it's a pretty low percentage play. If that's Plan A and there's no one else on the roster, there's a very good chance Washington has the worst QB room in the NFL. And I think anyone would view that as a failure of an offseason no matter what else the team does. If you mess up QB, everything else means a lot less.

 

As an side to the above and directed at the Tyrod Taylor talk, I have no idea the allure of such a signing. He's proven to be what he is. Which is not an NFL starter. At least guys like Allen or Heinicke have potential upside. Taylor's upside is a guy you don't want as your starter. if you sign a guy like that, you want to sign him as a back-up. But in Washington, he's just clogging a roster spot for a potential actual starter. Signing three back-up level guys doesn't equal one starter. I'd hope the plan is better than that.

I don’t know why people keep replying to me as if I’ve suggested we do nothing else at the QB spot. It’s more about the desperation some have at the position to me.

 

You get something at QB. Something more proven. And the three compete.

 

You know what a bigger mistake would be? Forcing a QB move that involves many assets and cap space and have it back fire. Instead of one bad season we then have several. 
 

I’m not trying to suggest we’re in a great spot QB wise here. There is massive risk in either scenario. I happen to think Allen or Heinicke can play a little bit and at worst be a good stop gap. Issue with both is durability. So a move has to be made regardless. 
 

Juat don’t understand why people are desperate.

 

If we make a move it has to be to trade up for a guy we like. The key to winning is building a roster around a true elite franchise QB that you drafted or having a roster chock full of talent and getting an older franchise QB.

 

Everything else is a dog and pony show at the QB spot. Find a reliable guy and see what happens. Preferably on a rookie contract.

Edited January 19, 2021 by KDawg

[Skinsinparadise]

At least we are #9. 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[tmandoug1]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

At least we are #9. 

 

 

 

Not going to happen, Deshaun wants Eric Bienemy as a coach and the Texans will pull the trigger on that one. All parties benefit from that hiring....Deshaun gets an offensive genius, Bienemy gets a well deserved shot at head coaching and the owner gets his fanbase back. No brainer to me. 

[jnhutchi3]

11 hours ago, KDawg said:

I don’t get the obvious lack of belief in Heinicke myself. I wouldn’t hand him the reigns without a fight and if Stafford becomes available for a second and change its a really good deal (especially because bis cost will be about 20M and nothing too ridiculous)

 

But otherwise I don’t understand why Allen and Heinicke can’t compete for the job.

 

The Snider article is weird to me... the playoffs highlight our QB desperation but the starting QB for Washington may have turned in the best overall playoff performance aside from Josh Allen in the wild card round. 

 

Agreed.  That was a really stupid article.  Heinicke played better than any other Washington player against Tampa Bay.  Heinicke is a gamer and I don't buy that Stafford is necessarily an upgrade over Heinicke.  Not at this stage in Stafford's career.

Edited January 19, 2021 by jnhutchi3

[Going Commando]

On 1/17/2021 at 11:04 PM, KDawg said:

He’s clearly declining and there’s no telling what the state of the decline would be next year, either. He’s also playing less games per season the last few years.

 

I think we watched him go over the cliff at the end of the season.  It was sad to see.  He still has his same mind and most of his talent so he could be a reasonable impression if his old self at the beginning of a season when he's healthy.  But his body just can't recover from NFL contact and the steady injuries of attrition that build up over the year to where he is going to be able to execute week in and week out now.

 

The other thing is the Saints have been building to hide his encroaching lack of mobility and arm strength for years, getting him an elite OL and an elite RB and WR.  He'd be worse in other situations.

 

He surely knows that too.  I can't see any way he'd want to start over at square one with another team.

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

RG III was just cut by the Ravens, so he's available. Just sayin'...😆

 

https://www.tmz.com/2021/01/18/robert-griffin-iii-cut-by-ravens-after-playoff-loss/

Edited January 19, 2021 by BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

1 hour ago, tmandoug1 said:

Not going to happen, Deshaun wants Eric Bienemy as a coach and the Texans will pull the trigger on that one. All parties benefit from that hiring....Deshaun gets an offensive genius, Bienemy gets a well deserved shot at head coaching and the owner gets his fanbase back. No brainer to me. 

 

I don't think many here are selling its likely going to happen. 

[KDawg]

Trade Young for Watson... no thanks.

[Thinking Skins]

25 minutes ago, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said:

RG III was just cut by the Ravens, so he's available. Just sayin'...😆

 

https://www.tmz.com/2021/01/18/robert-griffin-iii-cut-by-ravens-after-playoff-loss/

As long as he's RG3 from 2013 onward, I'm saying no thanks. If he was willing to play 2012 style I'd be interested but he seems to have made a decision not to go back to the running style of play. 

[jnhutchi3]

13 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

 

Not so much a lack in belief as it is not falling in love with a microscopic sample size on a player who was not even in the NFL for a while.

Not saying he shouldn't be allowed to compete for the job, but an Allen/Taylor/X competition next year should be like option G. 

 

Matt Flynn's happen, and falling in love with them is a cardinal NFL sin

 

Not a good comparison.  Heinicke played great when it mattered the most -- during a playoff game against a good Tampa Bay defense.  The guy is a gamer, with a high football IQ.  It would be absolutely stupid of Washington to not let him compete for the starting job next year.  

[Est.1974]

The salary cap position really is an interesting dynamic to the offseason QB scenarios. The cap is essentially looking 30mil lower than all teams will have budgeted for 18-24 months ago.

 

I mean, it’s the price of a top QB on its own.

 

 

[Fat Stupid Loser]

2 hours ago, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said:

RG III was just cut by the Ravens, so he's available. Just sayin'...😆

 

https://www.tmz.com/2021/01/18/robert-griffin-iii-cut-by-ravens-after-playoff-loss/

Going to go look for my old RG3 jersey right now!

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[heyholetsgogrant]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

EVERYONE is looking for a franchise QB, DUH! or basically you lose your job. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

11 minutes ago, heyholetsgogrant said:

 

EVERYONE is looking for a franchise QB, DUH! or basically you lose your job. 

 

I posted it because I am curious as to what teams are in competition for the same spot.  There has been some talk Denver might give it another go with Lock without worrying about the spot. 

Edited January 19, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[tmandoug1]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

I don't think many here are selling its likely going to happen. 

Radio was saying today that an offer of 1st rounder in 21, 22, 23 might do it. Their justification is that he is a franchise QB and what are the odds you get one in the first round over the next 3 years......especially if your picks would be mid round or later over that time frame due to game management and an awesome defense. I kind of agree with that. What is your opinion on that?

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

2 hours ago, tmandoug1 said:

Radio was saying today that an offer of 1st rounder in 21, 22, 23 might do it. Their justification is that he is a franchise QB and what are the odds you get one in the first round over the next 3 years......especially if your picks would be mid round or later over that time frame due to game management and an awesome defense. I kind of agree with that. What is your opinion on that?

 

I'd trade three #1's without even hesitating to get him especially in our case where they are likely in the 20s.  No brainer and easy choice for me.  

 

But I doubt they'd trade with us because they can likely got a high pick versus having to pick at 19.  Our pick is somewhat no man's land in the draft if they want to supplant Watson with a young QB. 

Edited January 19, 2021 by Skinsinparadise