Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[KDawg]

I really think they hire Bieniemy and this all goes away.

[Est.1974]

45 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The issue for us is our draft picks aren't as valuable as others. For one, we're offering #19 this year compared to other teams offering top 5-10. Secondly, our team with Watson would presuambly be a contender, meaning our future 1sts would be in the mid to late 20s. Meanwhile a team like the Jets even with Watson are likely to still be picking in the top 10.

 

We'd have to offer four 1sts to any teams offering three.

Typically I would agree, but in this case the highest bidder doesn’t win. Watson has a no trade clause and will pick his new home. 
 

It will be an expensive trade for someone though. Very expensive.
 

 

[FootballZombie]

Watson has beef w/ the owner and that dude is going nowhere. At best, all you can do is put a cap on the situation and pray it does not reach critical mass. Might buy you a year or two.

 

But you can bet after every loss, obstacle or speed bump every reporter will be poking and prodding. And if Easterby is anywhere near the Texans... it gets so much worse.

 

I don't think HOU's brass want Bieniemy, and I don't think he is putting time in on coaching interviews until after the playoffs. Meanwhile all the other coaches are getting snapped up into available head coaching and coordinator positions leaving HOU out in the cold. I don't think they have the BALLS to piss off Watson and hire someone, so their QB has them by theirs right now.

 

And even after all that.. Eric is a hot coaching prospect. He may not want to go to a 4 win team with negative money and no draft picks even if that does get him Watson.  Absolute mess over there.

[Darrell Green Fan]

42 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

 

Hey Dave.  Hope you're doing well. I won't mention our previous board, but I finally had enough sense to leave - and find a much better place.  I definitely don't think Flacco's the answer - especially in today's NFL.  But I do think you can win with a great team surrounded by a solid but not great QB - as Washington did 3 times back when you were young... or younger, I should say.  Hmm, have we had this discussion before?  🙂     

Send me a PM with the other board?  Is that allowed here?  

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

Watson has beef w/ the owner and that dude is going nowhere. At best, all you can do is put a cap on the situation and pray it does not reach critical mass. Might buy you a year or two.

 

But you can bet after every loss, obstacle or speed bump every reporter will be poking and prodding. And if Easterby is anywhere near the Texans... it gets so much worse.

 

I don't think HOU's brass want Bieniemy, and I don't think he is putting time in on coaching interviews until after the playoffs. Meanwhile all the other coaches are getting snapped up into available head coaching and coordinator positions leaving HOU out in the cold. I don't think they have the BALLS to piss off Watson and hire someone, so their QB has them by theirs right now.

 

And even after all that.. Eric is a hot coaching prospect. He may not want to go to a 4 win team with negative money and no draft picks even if that does get him Watson.  Absolute mess over there.

I think Bieniemy goes. Watson and the Texans vs. The Eagles and... who knows vs. another year with no HC job. 
 

Question is: will they do it? I think they do.

[TheGoodBits]

12 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I really think they hire Bieniemy and this all goes away.

Maybe. But there was a very public issue with the Texans owner making a comment that was viewed by many (including the Texans players) as racist. If I’m Watson, I’m thinking about this in its entirety. The ownership issue. The dismantling of what was a decent football team. Initiating a rebuild (just saw they are expected to trade Watt too). And I’m kind of in the same mindset as him. I want no part of this organization. There’s a lot of other teams out there that he can spend his efforts with. 

[FootballZombie]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I think Bieniemy goes. Watson and the Texans vs. The Eagles and... who knows vs. another year with no HC job. 

 

Maybe but dude is the OC of the Chiefs. There is a 99% he will be just as desired next year. Feels like an Urban Myer situation where this guy can bide his time and wait for a premium opportunity. If he's gotta wait another year, so be it.

 

He is one of the hottest names in coaching, no reason to force yourself into a situation that is not at least promising.

[CapsSkins]

3 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

It’s also about what you are getting in return.

 

KC gave up 2 firsts and a third. Would you do that this year?

 

For Mahomes/Watson? Of course without a doubt. But that isn't the price for guys who have established themselves as NFL stars.

 

Would you trade 10 1st round picks and 10 2nd round picks and Chase Young for Mahomes? If the answer is no, then we agree there's a limit on price no matter how valuable the player. If the answer is yes, then I don't think it's worth discussing bc we are clearly on different planets lol.

[Wildbunny]

https://riggosrag.com/2021/01/18/dark-horse-quarterback-washington-football-team-acquire/

 

Dark horse quarterback who the Washington Football Team should acquire

 

The Washington Football Team played a competitive Wild Card game against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers with Taylor Heinicke as their quarterback. That fact alone should tell you that with merely competent quarterback play, Washington can be a dangerous team as early as 2021. But as history shows over and over again, finding a competent quarterback is no simple matter.

 

However, there is one out there, and acquiring him would not require mortgaging the future.

 

If he is healthy and up to speed by opening day, Kyle Allen should be Washington’s starting quarterback. If he is not, it should be Tyrod Taylor.

 

Why Tyrod Taylor could make sense for the Washington Football Team

Taylor is not a sexy pick. As I was going over all the free agents, trade candidates, and potential draftees who could be on Washington’s radar, his name was overshadowed by at least a dozen others. But the more I thought about the likelihood of acquiring any new QB, and the cost associated with doing so, the more it became apparent that Taylor is the ideal choice.

 

Click on the link for more

[CapsSkins]

IDK how Tyrod is a "dark horse" considering I've been putting him on my list for weeks now and I'm a total outsider lmao. Heinicke/Allen/Tyrod is my preferred QB room w/ major upgrades at WR, LB plus re-signing Scherff and Darby if we don't draft a QB or trade for Stafford.

[dyst]

Does riggosrag have any validity or it is just a fan posting articles on a website?

[CapsSkins]

Here are the QBs who made it to the divisional round:

 

Baker
Mahomes
Brady
Brees
Allen
Lamar
Goff
Rodgers

 

My takeaway? If you want to make a playoff run, you either need a mobile QB or a Hall of Fame-quality statue. (the exception being Goff)

 

This disqualifies Mac Jones to me. And in the lower tier it means I value a Tyrod or Mariota over a Fitzpatrick or Dalton.

[NickyJ]

I don't want Tyrod. Nice dude, but I'd be extremely disappointed if he was hired with the thought that he'd be ideal competition for the starting job. The only advantage I see in him over Heinicke and Kyle Allen is that he's durable.

[Peregrine]

You know, seeing the stats for this past weeks game, Brady vs Brees, is perhaps the best reminder that a top 5 pick QB is overrated.  Not that there arent a lot of good ones, but the sheer number of QB busts that early versus other positions, and for whats invested, is massive.  

 

The two best QBs in NFL history, statistically, are Brady and Brees.  Top 2 in TDs, Yards, Completions, GW Drives, etc etc.  Yet both were greatly overlooked because they werent "athletic enough".  The Chargers just moved on from Brees from a hurry, and no one wanted Brady.  And yet when all is said and done it was their determination that was much more important than their arm strength/speed/combine stuff.

[CapsSkins]

5 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

You know, seeing the stats for this past weeks game, Brady vs Brees, is perhaps the best reminder that a top 5 pick QB is overrated.  Not that there arent a lot of good ones, but the sheer number of QB busts that early versus other positions, and for whats invested, is massive.  

 

The two best QBs in NFL history, statistically, are Brady and Brees.  Top 2 in TDs, Yards, Completions, GW Drives, etc etc.  Yet both were greatly overlooked because they werent "athletic enough".  The Chargers just moved on from Brees from a hurry, and no one wanted Brady.  And yet when all is said and done it was their determination that was much more important than their arm strength/speed/combine stuff.

 

We literally have a dude who is basically the same height and weight as Brees whom we might write off because of durability concerns. Lol

[Skinsinparadise]

41 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

 

My takeaway? If you want to make a playoff run, you either need a mobile QB or a Hall of Fame-quality statue. (the exception being Goff)

 

This disqualifies Mac Jones to me. And in the lower tier it means I value a Tyrod or Mariota over a Fitzpatrick or Dalton.

 

In the playoffs, mobilty could be the one cheat code.  It's cold and the run game is more lethal in that context.  It enhances things for the RB too because defenses having to account for both the RB and QB as for RPO/RO.  I recall the famous game where Kaepernick helped beat Rodgers in GB by running all over them.  Granted though Lamar hasn't had great success yet in the playoffs albeit its a small sample. 

 

I am on the record here for wanting to be aggressive at getting a QB.  But I still get run over by some whenever I present the much less attractive option B types but all i am doing is entertaining what if we have no choice scenarios.   I am not what i prefer.  I flat out hate going with a likely mediocre option at QB.  I don't think our window to win a SB is forever.  And i do think the window starts now.    And I agree that Ron likely prefers mobility.

 

If so, the three that standout purely on mobility would be Taylor and Cam (both have run for 500 yards plus) then it would be Mariota and Trubisky.   I am not in love with any of them.  But for all those who love the Titans model of rehabbing Tannehill, you can't do it if you aren't rolling the dice on someone that most think is a yawn prospect.   To get a guy cheap, the dude isn't exciting at this giving time.  That's the idea.  If said QB was an exciting option, he'd be paid big bucks and there would be a hot market for him.  So that's how you try the Tannehill model.  I looked at Trubisky and Tyrod's stats and ironically some of their years were similar to Tannehill's run in Miami.   Do i think they become our Tannehill?  Nope.   But i get the idea of beggars can't be chosers so that might be our only bet. 

 

I am not one of the fans of trying a reclamation project.  But i think there is a good chance we'd have no choice and if so we'd have to pick who is the tallest midget on the market.  If we are talking pure mobility, i think its these guys. 

 

Chargers' Tyrod Taylor among NFL' best quarterbacks at forcing missed tackles

Gavino Borquez 

 

June 29, 2020 12:54 pm

For the first time in over a decade, the Chargers will get some movement from the quarterback position. While Philip Rivers was superior at slinging the rock, he wasn’t one to beat defenses with his legs.

Now with Los Angeles having mobile signal-callers on the roster, the offense will become multi-dimensional with more of a run-heavy approach.

Luckily, the Bolts have one of the best rushing quarterbacks in the NFL to get the job done.

According to Pro Football Focus, Tyrod Taylor forced the third-most missed tackles by any quarterback since 2011 (72). Cam Newton leads the way with 110, while Russell Wilson is right behind him with 90.

 

Taylor has proven he can run the ball with two seasons under his belt with at least 568 rushing yards and four rushing touchdowns when he was the starter for the Bills.

While Taylor has the ability to destroy defenses with his legs, there are still some areas that he needs to improve in as a passer.

Even though he doesn’t throw a lot of interceptions, Taylor struggles with accuracy and seeing the middle of the field well, which is where key players like tight end Hunter Henry and wide receiver Keenan Allen shine.

 

https://chargerswire.usatoday.com/2020/06/29/chargers-tyrod-taylor-run-offense-pff/

Edited January 18, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[CapsSkins]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

In the playoffs, mobilty could be the one cheat code.  It's cold and the run game is more lethal in that context.  It enhances things for the RB too because defenses having to account for both the RB and QB as for RPO/RO.  I recall the famous game where Kaepernick helped beat Rodgers in GB by running all over them.  Granted though Lamar hasn't had great success yet in the playoffs albeit its a small sample. 

 

I am on the record here for wanting to be aggressive at getting a QB.  But I still get run over by some whenever I present the much less attractive option B types but all i am doing is entertaining what if we have no choice scenarios.   I am not what i prefer.  I flat out hate going with a likely mediocre option at QB.  I don't think our window to win a SB is forever.  And i do think the window starts now.    And I agree that Ron likely prefers mobility.

 

If so, the three that standout purely on mobility would be Taylor and Cam (both have run for 500 yards plus) then it would be Mariota and Trubisky.   I am not in love with any of them.  But for all those who love the Titans model of rehabbing Tannehill, you can't do it if you aren't rolling the dice on someone that most think is a yawn prospect.   To get a guy cheap, the dude isn't exciting at this giving time.  That's the idea.  If said QB was an exciting option, he'd be paid big bucks and there would be a hot market for him.  So that's how you try the Tannehill model.  I looked at Trubisky and Tyrod's stats and ironically some of their years were similar to Tannehill's run in Miami.   Do i think they become our Tannehill?  Nope.   But i get the idea of beggars can't be chosers so that might be our only bet. 

 

I am not one of the fans of trying a reclamation project.  But i think there is a good chance we'd have no choice and if so we'd have to pick who is the tallest midget on the market.  If we are talking pure mobility, i think its these guys. 

 

Is it confirmed that CHI is parting ways with Trubisky? If so, then I am 100% on board with bringing him in to compete.

 

I think you know where I stand on QB. I am most preferably in the Heinicke/Allen/2nd Tier FA Vet camp. Open competition in camp. Use cap space and draft picks to fill other holes. You're betting on the upside of your QB room, and each guy has a case to be made there: whether Heinicke or Allen or Tyrod/Mariota/Trubisky. And the odds go up if you only need one of them to step up. 

 

What are the odds each guy can be the guy, 30-40%? Let's split the difference and say for each guy it's 35%. That means the chance none of them work out is 0.65^3 = ~27.5%. Which means the chance at least one of those guys can step up is 72.5%. I take that chance while upgrading the rest of my roster any day.

 

The game has changed, and guys who either didn't get chances or didn't perform great in other systems could flourish here in the right circumstances depending on their skillset. Mobility is a big part of that.

[FootballZombie]

Seriously doubt J Allen would be a piece in any trade w/ Hou.

 

They are already cash strapped, having to move JJ Watt's 17Mil. Pulling Allen's 10 Mil back negates most of that. Plus he is on the last year of his deal, meaning they would have to pay him next year.

 

Even if they have him as the better player, they would be more likely be interested in Payne, Settle or Io as they are either on longer or cheaper deals. Young would be off the table, and they would bang hard for Sweat, but I don't see us giving him up either. From a contract standpoint, with their cap situation, Allen may hurt more than he helps.

 

For that same reason Kyle Allen may be of interest. Getting a QB on the roster for sub 1 Mil is a steal, even for a backup and moving him would not hurt our own cap.

 

 

Tua and Darnold would be super cheap for Hou as well, but pricey on the trading team.

Tua would cost Mia like 14 mil in dead cap to move.

Darnold would cost the jets 10 Mil in dead cap

 

[Skinsinparadise]

The Alex dynamic might weigh in.  He's a really good game manager with high intangibles.  But at this stage of his career, I don't want him back.  I want higher level QB play and I don't trust his durabiity. 

 

A radio host brought up a good point though which is if he doesn't play here, then where would he go?  I'd gather he would be taken as a backup on the cheap somewhere else.  Maybe Jax now that they have Urban Meyer?  But I can't see any team coveting him as a starter.  Will see though. 

 

But what happens with Alex will have a domino effect to the offseason at QB.  My guess is Rivera lets him go if he doesn't retire.  When he was asked towards the end of the season if they'd have won games without Alex -- I thought it was telling that Ron's answer was yes they would have if Kyle Allen stayed healthy. 

 

 

 

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

 

For Mahomes/Watson? Of course without a doubt. But that isn't the price for guys who have established themselves as NFL stars.

 

Would you trade 10 1st round picks and 10 2nd round picks and Chase Young for Mahomes? If the answer is no, then we agree there's a limit on price no matter how valuable the player. If the answer is yes, then I don't think it's worth discussing bc we are clearly on different planets lol.

I genuinely don’t understand what you are getting at.

[CapsSkins]

8 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I genuinely don’t understand what you are getting at.

 

The idea of trading the farm for an elite talent. And how some of us don't want to do that, but it's not because we don't want elite talents on our team. But rather because you cannot make a judgment on getting the talent without taking into account the price.

 

So when you say, you wouldn't trade XYZ package for Watson but would you do it for Mahomes? The answer is still no because no one player is worth giving up that much, not because Watson isn't worth it but if he were 10% better then he would be worth it.

[wit33]

34 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The Alex dynamic might weigh in.  He's a really good game manager with high intangibles.  But at this stage of his career, I don't want him back.  I want higher level QB play and I don't trust his durabiity. 

 

A radio host brought up a good point though which is if he doesn't play here, then where would he go?  I'd gather he would be taken as a backup on the cheap somewhere else.  Maybe Jax now that they have Urban Meyer?  But I can't see any team coveting him as a starter.  Will see though. 

 

But what happens with Alex will have a domino effect to the offseason at QB.  My guess is Rivera lets him go if he doesn't retire.  When he was asked towards the end of the season if they'd have won games without Alex -- I thought it was telling that Ron's answer was yes they would have if Kyle Allen stayed healthy. 

 

 

 

He may be trending towards a Ryan Fitzpatrick type role with an organization. A guy with great intangibles that can provide immense value to a year 1 rebuild type situation. Jags make a lot of sense. 

 

If the wheels were still present I’d still be all in. 

4 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

The idea of trading the farm for an elite talent. And how some of us don't want to do that, but it's not because we don't want elite talents on our team. But rather because you cannot make a judgment on getting the talent without taking into account the price.

 

So when you say, you wouldn't trade XYZ package for Watson but would you do it for Mahomes? The answer is still no because no one player is worth giving up that much, not because Watson isn't worth it but if he were 10% better then he would be worth it.

Id be willing to trade all 53 or top 20 players on the roster and 5 1st round picks for Mahomes and just start over. Just felt like it had to be said. 

[Est.1974]

4 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

The idea of trading the farm for an elite talent. And how some of us don't want to do that, but it's not because we don't want elite talents on our team. But rather because you cannot make a judgment on getting the talent without taking into account the price.

 

So when you say, you wouldn't trade XYZ package for Watson but would you do it for Mahomes? The answer is still no because no one player is worth giving up that much, not because Watson isn't worth it but if he were 10% better then he would be worth it.

I am fully aware the price is a consideration. Some of us just don’t think the price for Watson being touted is that absurd. But time will tell, if the situation escalates we will soon find out. 
 

I would estimate at least half the teams in the league would go all in for Watson. Not sure how much further proof you would need of his value. But we are short on facts right now.

[HigSkin]

 

[RWJ]

That's why I believe we will draft a QB in this year's draft.