Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

Well considering we’ve been trying and failing for decades now... 

 

All those I mentioned are fallback options.
 

Stafford is my #1 preference right now. I think he’ll cost 19 and a 3rd, somewhere in that neighborhood, and give us QB play good enough to win a championship with for the next 3-4 years. 

 

 

I'd like Stafford.  He's not elite though.   That would be my 2nd favorite approach.  As much as some here hate the idea of trading assets for Watson, I don't think they have to fear it.  I'd put it at 1% chance that it comes into play.  Stafford IMO is more realistic but I still doubt he hits the trade market.  I'd put it at 25%.

 

As for FA's, I'd go Fitzpatrick.  Don't love him.  He's never even taken a team to the playoffs let alone a SB.   Thinking about it, his weakness is arm strength and turnovers.    If you go with Fitzpatrick, I'd go to town on getting Allen Robinson or another top receiver or two.  Hey throws a lot of contested balls so we'd want receivers that can win that way.  

Edited January 17, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd like Stafford.  He's not elite though.   That would be my 2nd favorite approach.  As much as some here hate the idea of trading assets for Watson, I don't think they have to fear it.  I'd put it at 1% chance that it comes into play.  Stafford IMO is more realistic but I still doubt he hits the trade market.  I'd put it at 25%.

 

As for FA's, I'd go Fitzpatrick.  Don't love him.  He's never even taken a team to the playoffs let alone a SB.   Thinking about it, his weakness is arm strength and turnovers.    If you go with Fitzpatrick, I'd go to town on getting Allen Robinson or another top receiver or two.  Hey throws a lot of contested balls so we'd want receivers that can win that way.  

 

 I think Fitz is a "be careful what you wish for" situation. He can be fun to watch and can make some good plays, but he makes an almost equal number of dumb/risky/boneheaded ones as well. I think he'll drive many of us nuts with that stuff. 

 

I can just see the game day thread posts now..."OH FOR GOD'S SAKE FITZ****TRICK! THAT GUY ISN'T ON YOUR TEAM!!! THANKS FOR LOSING US THE GAME, ASSHOLE!"

[profusion]

Fitzpatrick is a stopgap if you draft someone. If the WFT is going to bring in a vet, it needs to be a quality starter for an immediate playoff run. They've already got a couple guys who could serve as stopgaps.

 

Stafford might be okay, but that depends on analysis of whether his impact on the cap and draft situation will prevent the team  from addressing their other pressing needs. Stafford throwing to Terry and a bunch of scrubs isn't much better than Heinicke throwing to Terry and a bunch of scrubs.

Edited January 17, 2021 by profusion

[TheGoodBits]

38 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd like Stafford.  He's not elite though.   That would be my 2nd favorite approach.  As much as some here hate the idea of trading assets for Watson, I don't think they have to fear it.  I'd put it at 1% chance that it comes into play.  Stafford IMO is more realistic but I still doubt he hits the trade market.  I'd put it at 25%.

 

As for FA's, I'd go Fitzpatrick.  Don't love him.  He's never even taken a team to the playoffs let alone a SB.   Thinking about it, his weakness is arm strength and turnovers.    If you go with Fitzpatrick, I'd go to town on getting Allen Robinson or another top receiver or two.  Hey throws a lot of contested balls so we'd want receivers that can win that way.  

What would be the argument for Fitzpatrick over Rivers? Same age, approx same amount left in the tank based on performance this year. Rivers is better though. 

[Skinsinparadise]

This dude on twitter sums it well for me.  I'd add you won't get a more prudent methodical crowd than the PFF guys.  They aren't always right but their thoughts are predicated on studying rosters and trends.  They are far from an emotional bunch.  They are as methodical as it gets.  Two different PFF guys speaking on this roster had the same conclusion.  That conclusion wasn't -- chill WFT fans, keep building your roster methodically, you have ways to go, so stick to business as usual and when the time is right to find a stud QB, it will come, don't panic or force it.  You should relax about it.   Those PFF guys are as emotional about it as some of us are here:  their take the roster was good enough now to win with a franchise QB, carpe diem, go crazy to get that QB because you need one and time might run out where you waste what you got.   

 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

Look, I think outside of QB, this team is really good with some obviously huge holes. We absolutely need 2 starting LBers and 2 starting WRs and a FS. That's 3 FAs and 2 draft picks IMO.

 

We could use definite upgrades to RB, TE, OL, CB, but those can be over looked if we address the top 5 non QB holes and I don't think that's a problem at all.

 

I'm in the Winston, Mariota camp myself and I assume Allen is going to win the pretend QB Comp in camp to start.

 

If we fill those holes and the team is that much closer to complete, I will join Sip, UK and the rest of you lunatics that want to give away 3 drafts and a first born to get our next QB regardless of who it is. I'll lead the charge even, but this is not the offseason to bet the farm. Not with this many holes yet.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

What would be the argument for Fitzpatrick over Rivers? Same age, approx same amount left in the tank based on performance this year. Rivers is better though. 

 

They are close to me.  Mainly money. Will see.  But from what I've read Fitzpatrick could be a 10 million dollar guy and Rivers a 25 million dollar guy.  i am frankly not excited about either one.  I don't think either one is taking us to the SB.   But beggers can't be choosers.  So out of the unappealing options either would fit as one of the better ones.  So I wouldn't hate either one, I'd like it, not love it. 

 

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Look, I think outside of QB, this team is really good with some obviously huge holes. We absolutely need 2 starting LBers and 2 starting WRs and a FS. That's 3 FAs and 2 draft picks IMO.

 

We could use definite upgrades to RB, TE, OL, CB, but those can be over looked if we address the top 5 non QB holes and I don't think that's a problem at all.

 

 

I think they can be filled in one off season even without a first.  But just because I love reading a point made this way, I'll leave my argument on it alone. 😀

 

What I love about this post is I rarely see people accede that teams don't fill every weakness in an off season or even in multiple off seasons.  It just doesn't happen.  Every team has a few holes even the best ones even post an aggressive off season shopping endeavor.  If the concept of any off season is to fill every hole, people are bound to be dissapointed.  Even when the Chiefs won the SB they had glaring holes. 

 

The thing is as for being aggressive at going after really any big time player, if we wait for all of our weaknesses to be filled first, we'd wait forever.  The roster would never be ready to make an aggressive move in that context because you can bank on weaknesses existing.

 

So while we don't per se agree on a QB, if I recall we do agree on making a move on a dude like this if it doesn't cost an arm and a league.  IMO we need 2 more game breakers, stars, on offense.  If trading up for Pitts for example means we don't add another CB, that's fine.  There will be holes.  They will never all be filled. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

If we fill those holes and the team is that much closer to complete, I will join Sip, UK and the rest of you lunatics that want to give away 3 drafts and a first born to get our next QB regardless of who it is. I'll lead the charge even, but this is not the offseason to bet the farm. Not with this many holes yet.

 

Disagree that this isn't the time.  This is the perfect time.  We aren't far off from Allen and Payne being 15 million plus players.    Allen is about to be up, Payne is right after.  Ionnaidis.  We could lose Settle soon to FA.   But got to give you props for the first born line.  

 

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[HigSkin]

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by HigSkin

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

They are close to me.  Mainly money. Will see.  But from what I've read Fitzpatrick could be a 10 million dollar guy and Rivers a 25 million dollar guy.  i am frankly not excited about either one.  I don't think either one is taking us to the SB.   But beggers can't be choosers.  So out of the unappealing options either would fit as one of the better ones.  So I wouldn't hate either one, I'd like it, not love it. 

 

 

I think they can be filled in one off season even without a first.  But just because I love reading a point made this way, I'll leave my argument on it alone. 😀

 

What I love about this post is I rarely see people accede that teams don't fill every weakness in an off season or even in multiple off seasons.  It just doesn't happen.  Every team has a few holes even the best ones even post an aggressive off season shopping endeavor.  If the concept of any off season is to fill every hole, people are bound to be dissapointed.  Even when the Chiefs won the SB they had glaring holes. 

 

The thing is as for being aggressive at going after really any big time player, if we wait for all of our weaknesses to be filled first, we'd wait forever.  The roster would never be ready to make an aggressive move in that context because you can bank on weaknesses existing.

 

So while we don't per se agree on a QB, if I recall we do agree on making a move on a dude like this if it doesn't cost an arm and a league.  IMO we need 2 more game breakers, stars, on offense.  If trading up for Pitts for example means we don't add another CB, that's fine.  There will be holes.  They will never all be filled. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Disagree that this isn't the time.  This is the perfect time.  We aren't far off from Allen and Payne being 15 million plus players.    Allen is about to be up, Payne is right after.  Ionnaidis.  We could lose Settle soon to FA.   But got to give your props for the first born line.  

 

 

I can't believe you'd use my unnaturally enormous overdevotion to the TE position to drive your point home. Yes, he's an unguardable, unblockable unstoppable weapon from North Philly with Temple roots who refused to be a QB or WR so that he could be the best all around TE ever. He checks every single box for me and yes, I'd sell the farm to get him.  

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[CapsSkins]

Let's put the Deshaun talk to bed. He wants Miami and Miami is in the best position to get him. Plus, you have to think Tua is part of the deal going back the other way.

 

So really, this just means it's more likely that Fitz is available in FA.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I can't believe you'd use my unnaturally enormous overdevotion to the TE position to drive your point home. Yes, he's an unguardable, unblockable unstoppable weapon from North Philly with Temple roots who refused to be a QB or WR so that he could be the best all around TE ever. He checks every single box for me and yes, I'd sell the farm to get him.  

 

I spent more time studying TEs and WRs than any other position in the last few years.  I've probably watched somewhere around 75 TEs.  I've not seen a TE at least to my eyes as special as Pitts among those players.

 

If we go with a hold your horses type of approach to the QB spot this off season (which I think will happen anyway by default because i don't think there is much chance we will get any of the more lofty aspiration type of QBs whether on the trade market or the draft) and lets say its Ryan Fitzpatrick.   For Fitzpatrick in particular surround him with weapons who win one on one battles because his game is to let it fly and give his guys a chance. 

 

He's sort of Alex in reverse as to style but with similar intangibles.  Like Alex, his teammates love him and believe in him.  And like Alex, he's really smart.  But Alex plays it super conservative.  Ryan lets it fly.

10 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Let's put the Deshaun talk to bed. He wants Miami and Miami is in the best position to get him. Plus, you have to think Tua is part of the deal going back the other way.

 

So really, this just means it's more likely that Fitz is available in FA.

 

 I think Miami and the Jets battle for him and Miami wins.  If i am the Texans I want to pick a #2 or #3 to replace him with Zach or Fields over Tua. 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I spent more time studying TEs and WRs than any other position in the last few years.  I've probably watched somewhere around 75 TEs.  I've not seen a TE at leaat to my eyes as special as Pitts.

 

If we go with a hold your horses type of approach to the QB spot this off season (which I think will happen anyway by default because i don't think there is much chance we will get any of the more lofty aspiration type of QBs whether on the trade market or the draft) and lets say its Ryan Fitzpatrick.   For Fitzpatrick in particular suppound him with weapons who win one on one battles because his game is to let it fly and give his guys a chance. 

 

He's sort of Alex in reverse as to style but he similar intangibles.  Like Alex, his teammates love him and believe in him.  And like Alex, he's really smart.  But Alex plays it super conservative.  Ryan lets it fly.

I'm fine with a QB who is going to wing it all over the place. We have the defense to enjoy teams trying to keep up with that.

[JoggingGod]

5 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

So really, this just means it's more likely that Fitz is available in FA.

Who cares about an aging mediocre QB

[CapsSkins]

Just now, JoggingGod said:

Who cares about an aging mediocre QB

 

You missed the point, which is that the Deshaun move affects us more with Fitz's availability in FA rather than a potential landing spot for Deshaun. He's not coming here. No need to even discuss the possibility IMO bc it's not happening.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, JoggingGod said:

Who cares about an aging mediocre QB

The **** is wrong with you? How do you not have even one bit of skill communicating with people. What are you in collections?

[JoggingGod]

3 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

You missed the point, which is that the Deshaun move affects us more with Fitz's availability in FA rather than a potential landing spot for Deshaun. He's not coming here. No need to even discuss the possibility IMO bc it's not happening.

Ok, and we shouldn’t even be signing Fitzpatrick so it’s irrelevant

[Skinsinparadise]

Heck I didn't even see Schefter's comment before I brought up the Jets.  I got to become one of these gossip NFL guys for a living.  

 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 I think Miami and the Jets battle for him and Miami wins.  If i am the Texans I want to pick a #2 or #3 to replace him with Zach or Fields over Tua. 

Watson has a say in where he goes. It will never be the Jets. I’d expect NE to go all in as well.

[CapsSkins]

Deshaun wants Miami bc they're a rising team, good coach, good culture and don't forget... no state income tax.  

[Burgundy Yoda]

Deshaun Watson is a pipe dream. All this talk about it is setting people up for disappointment, Miami is going to get him.

[Est.1974]

6 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Deshaun Watson is a pipe dream. All this talk about it is setting people up for disappointment, Miami is going to get him.

 You would think so wouldn’t you. They sure seem the favourite, with the best ammunition to get him. Interesting to watch unfold.

[Burgundy Yoda]

4 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

 You would think so wouldn’t you. They sure seem the favourite, with the best ammunition to get him. Interesting to watch unfold.

The only saving grace is that we're an NFC team. I dont know if its possible but maybe there's a way we can also absorb the dead cap hit that Houston would take making the trade. 

 

We have cap space and that should be used smartly in any talks trying to lure Watson here.

[WilberMarshall]

I like the little I saw of Kyle Allen. Loved me some Heinicke. 

 

I won't mind seeing Tyrod Taylor coming home either.